One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[M3J]

Law beat Hawkins who Zoro had trouble with early on. No contest to say Zoro is as equal to them as that like saying Zoro same level as Luffy which he isn't. I see no way Zoro can somehow stronger than them when said man been hype tool by enemies who blasted him badly especially Apoo and Hawkins. It ended in dominance on their end, not Zoro. He even couldn't take out Nerf Killer without tying with him. If Oda wanted to push a way to have Zoro be stronger than all of them, he would have, but portrayal and feats shows, Zoro doesn't compete much to Supernova Captains at all in majority wise. Nothing to evidence he will get around or beat Kidd or Law at all given their Hax power and Haki.

I don't care about A > B, B > C, so A > C logic, that doesn't apply here. And it's been theorized that Luffy is way above Law and Kidd, to boot.

Law beat Hawkins after being taken in, whereas Hawkins attacked Zoro and Luffy out of nowhere as they were running away. The fight was unfinished as the two had other things to focus on.

Zoro got stabbed because he was distracted by another enemy.

It would be more accurate to just say "Zoro hasn't shown" :/

I don't proofread, but he hasn't gone all out whereas Law has, so I'm not sure what to think.

 

[McNuss]

The 4 animals representing the 4 Emperors:
Roster - Shanks
Cat - Big Mom
Donkey - Blackbeard
Dog - Kaido
Zoro vs Kaido confirmed.

Those represent the "Bremer Stadtmusikanten" (Musicians of Bremen), a famous German Fairytale.

Has nothing to do with any One Piece characters.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 21, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 21, 2020 ---

Bege didn't "tanked" Big Mom attacks, she was ripping the Big Father apart. But the Big Father is a 80 meter tall, so even Big Mom would take some time doing so. I presume if she wasn't out of her mind, she would have used her sword to cut it in half with a single attack.

Comparison is key here. We have Zoro cutting up a Stone Golem like nothing, we have Luffy punching holes into mountains, etc..

The Walls of Big Father's body are Capone's skin, meaning he does take the pain. Yet despite tanking a barrage of Big Mom's hits, that would have taken out any other Supernova regardless of their form, Bege was still capable of moving. Luffy in G4 would have been downed there, so Bege has indeed incredible feats.

Bege is also a cheat, as I said. If you evaluate Shura, you have to include Fuza, if you evaluate Hancock you have to include Salome, Mohji & Richie, and so on. The "battle pets" of Bege however are the entire Fire Tank Pirates, including the almost 100M Vito and Gotti, as well as a cavalry squad. His title isn't "Gang" without reason.

If it weren't for Perospero and Katakuri, the Big Father would have likely blasted the top of the Chateau away. People look down on it because it has only cannons, but these are huge cannons. People also wonder how Apoo's explosion could hurt Luffy.

He just isn't a fiery redhead metal punk, cute tatooed emo boy or secret agent Allosaurus, but an overweight italo gangster turned cowboy in his 40s, so he will never get full acknowledgement.

Overall, Bege didn't do anything that impressive. Also he called Nekomamushi a monster, and ran away from him. So by his own admission, he wouldn't stand a chance against someone at the Yonko commander level.

Given what was shown so far only Luffy and maybe Urouge would stand a chance against Nekomamushi.

Law got owned by Doflamingo, who is comparable to the "Yonko Commanders".

As I said, Bege currently has better vs Yonko feats than most of them, and that with his ability's movement and offensive capabilities disabled.

I also said that the list is very sketchy anyways. Nothing shown during the first two acts of Wano is suggestive of anything aside from Killer likely not being that strong and Hawkins being an idiot, two things not very surprising. The raid now is going to show more feats but if anything it currently suggests Kid=Apoo, but I doubt it will be left at that.

Especially all this talk about how strong Kid has to be annoys me though, because there is currently nothing to back it up. Basically for him to be an equal to Luffy, he needs a G4 of his own but hasn't shown one yet.

It is the same as "Shanks is the strongest/weakest Yonko". Doesn't lead anywhere without the character having enough suggestive feats. The only Supernova with a full set of feats are Luffy, Law and Bege, hence why I ranked them so high. Zoro has a lot of feats, but hasn't even shown Asura yet.

The others... No. Not yet. Even Urouge's feat of defeating Snack is pointless as we never saw him do anything either. Snack and Decuplets vs Judge was offscreened as well.

Hawkins has some tease but the others run around with the SAME feats they got on Sabaody, just scaled up.

 

[nik87]

Those represent the "Bremer Stadtmusikanten" (Musicians of Bremen), a famous German Fairytale.

Has nothing to do with any One Piece characters.

Yes, they are Bremen's musicians and they still have a connection to each emperor.
As you can see, those animals are drawn in One Piece itself and not just on one occasion.

Spoiler

You know that Oda likes to tie things in with various tales...

"Later that night, the robbers return and send one of their members in to investigate. He sees the Cat's eyes shining in the darkness and the robber thinks he is seeing the coals of the fire. He reaches over to light his candle. Things happen in quick succession; the Cat scratches his face with her claws, the Dog bites him on the leg, the Donkey kicks him with his hooves, and the Rooster crows and chases him out the door, screaming. He tells his companions that he was beset by a horrible witch who had scratched him with her long fingernails (the Cat), a man who has a knife (the Dog), a black monster who had hit him with a club (the Donkey), and worst of all, the judge who had screamed from the rooftop (the Rooster). The robbers abandon the cottage to the strange creatures who have taken it, where the animals live happily for the rest of their days."

The dark witch being the cat fits the description of Big Mom. In ch 981 cover, there are 3 cats, one with Nami, one with Sanji and one with Luffy. It could represent the 3 original hommies, Zeus with Nami, Prometheus the fire with Sanji, 3rd hommie who belongs to LinLin next to Luffy which could symbolize their fight.

The dog having a knife isnt really connection with Kaido but let's see other animals. A black monster, the Donkey, sounds like the user of Yami Yami no Mi, Blackbeard. Rooster, the judge, sounds like the man who has red hair, just like the rooster, the judge who arrived and signaled the end of Marineford...
That leaves the dog to Kaido. In ch 981, the big dog has a tattoo on his arm, just like Kaido. There is also a small dog with Luffy, could it be Yamato? ...

Luffy holds 5 albums, it possibly represents the 5 last arcs in One Piece. The only one that we see is the one behind us.
Cat playing music - WCI's bad end musical. Next one is hidden and represents current arc - Wano. The next after Wano looks like Ben Bekcman and could represent Shanks' arc - Elbaf, then comes another hidden one which should be Raftel and the last one shows letter W, the War, against the World, final arc.

 

[Fox666]

He just isn't a fiery redhead metal punk, cute tatooed emo boy or secret agent Allosaurus, but an overweight italo gangster turned cowboy in his 40s, so he will never get full acknowledgement.

I'm not judging him because he's overweight or whatnot. I'm using feats and statements in the series.

Also Vito called Perosperos, Compote, Oven and Daifuku "monsters" and was worried about making them enemies. That seems weird if his captain was such a powerhouse.

As I said, Bege currently has better vs Yonko feats than most of them, and that with his ability's movement and offensive capabilities disabled.

IMHO I don't count it as really a feat. It's a weird ability. Capone can turn himself into a giant castle, so that's why Big Mom had to dig it. It has not much to do with Capone strength.

 

[McNuss]

I'm not judging him because he's overweight or whatnot. I'm using feats and statements in the series.

I wasn't talking about you but about how the characters are perceived in general. That has never changed since their introduction on Sabaody and is partially intentional.

Also Vito called Perosperos, Compote, Oven and Daifuku "monsters" and was worried about making them enemies. That seems weird if his captain was such a powerhouse.

But they are "monsters". Bege is a cautious individual who does not take steps without planning.

IMHO I don't count it as really a feat. It's a weird ability. Capone can turn himself into a giant castle, so that's why Big Mom had to dig it. It has not much to do with Capone strength.

But all feats are weird abilities. If we would just rank physical strenght, Elizabello and Bobby Funk (or was it Kelly? The big one) would be high tier characters.

 

[Fox666]

I wasn't talking about you but about how the characters are perceived in general. That has never changed since their introduction on Sabaody and is partially intentional.

Most people judged him based on his bounty alone.

 

[McNuss]

Most people judged him based on his bounty alone.

Naaah. Pre-skip Bege looks like a creep and Oda played on that a bit by making him quite opposite to that after he got married.

He and Bonney were also the only Supernova that (rightfully) backed out of the situation at Sabaody and as such were unscathed but also didn't show off.

Urouge had the lowest bounty back then, yet was already perceived as among the strongest.

 

[King Moe]

I don't care about A > B, B > C, so A > C logic, that doesn't apply here. And it's been theorized that Luffy is way above Law and Kidd, to boot.

Law beat Hawkins after being taken in, whereas Hawkins attacked Zoro and Luffy out of nowhere as they were running away. The fight was unfinished as the two had other things to focus on.

Zoro got stabbed because he was distracted by another enemy.


I don't proofread, but he hasn't gone all out whereas Law has, so I'm not sure what to think.

Of course Luffy is stronger of WG Trio, but doesn't mean Kidd and Law are far behind from him as from how writing and portrayal shows, they aren't. Zoro however have proven nothing he is in that league on his performance shown and you prove my point with Zoro unable to finished fights in this arc as he is quick to run away or he tied with someone who was nerf. Also another enemy excuse isn't variable when he is now facing 500 enemies and if he does beat them by himself, it kinda make him look bad why he didn't do same when facing Kamazou and Gyukimaro. Again, his performance have not been great. Your really pushing to say he is same level to Kidd and Law when nothing said that. He is Mid at best, but after what Hawkins and Apoo did, it's better not to underestimate the other Supernovas and Zoro could just wipe them out which from what we seen, no he can't.

 

[M3J]

I didn't prove anything when you refuse to acknowledge that Zoro got surprise-attacked while fighting Killer and was running away because they couldn't fight multiple enemies. Zoro expected Gyukikmaru to stay out of the fight, while he knows the enemies are going to try to gang up on him. I mean, with your logic, Zoro is actually superior to Law because Law went down more than once during Dressrosa and would have been killed if it weren't for Luffy, while Zoro beat Pica effortlessly. Or even superior to Kidd because Kidd lost to Kaidou and Shanks, but Zoro hasn't lost a fight so far, other than against a drugged up Hodi.

 

[King Moe]

I didn't prove anything when you refuse to acknowledge that Zoro got surprise-attacked while fighting Killer and was running away because they couldn't fight multiple enemies. Zoro expected Gyukikmaru to stay out of the fight, while he knows the enemies are going to try to gang up on him. I mean, with your logic, Zoro is actually superior to Law because Law went down more than once during Dressrosa and would have been killed if it weren't for Luffy, while Zoro beat Pica effortlessly. Or even superior to Kidd because Kidd lost to Kaidou and Shanks, but Zoro hasn't lost a fight so far, other than against a drugged up Hodi.

We going into a War. Will you continue to use that excuse when Zoro going to face multiple targets right current chapter? Still not good enough excuse on the matter. He got Haki, learn to use it to detect and block, not get wasted enough you faint afterwards.

Also how does that work? Law face off with Doflamingo who is stronger than Pica any day of the week? By that logic, we can say Usopp is stronger than Zoro since he defeated Sugar faster than him dealing with Pica. Enemies are on different level, not by how fast you beat them only. Are you seriously saying Pica is stronger than Doffy now? If so, then that argument doesn't make sense, M3J. Law took on Hawkins and beat him. Zoro took him on and left bloodly afterwards. If Oda want put who is stronger, he can make Zoro do more than this, but instead he pushing stance of Zoro true level right now. There is no shame in him not stronger than other characters. He isn't Luffy, he won't be stronger than foes Luffy will face or who are his major rivals after all.

 

[albertwv]

To get away the "Zolo discussion".....
I believe Garp is stronger than all the admirals. If it wasn't for Sengoku stopping Garp, he would've killed Akainu, but also sustaining grave injuries. Garp has obviously gotten weaker just like Rayleigh and WB. But they are strong enough to compete and defeat an admiral.

Also, I currently rank BB as the weakest Yonko, because he is still inexperienced compared to the rest. I'm sure he'll get stronger but right now, he's the weakest.

Remember do not rank characters based on how they will turn out the at the end of the series but of what they have shown in the manga so far.

 

[M3J]

Argument bores me, w/e.

I'd actually love to see what'd happen if Garp wasn't looked upon favorably anymore, and the WG decided to go after him. Imagine Garp vs. Akainu, we'd probably finally be able to see who's superior. I'm not sure how much weaker Garp's gotten since he fought Roger, he hasn't given any indication of that as far as I recall. It's interesting because Whitebeard declined severely, Rayleigh got rusty, but Garp and Sengoku seem as strong as ever.

 

[King Moe]

Pretty sure Garp is the strongest one given fact Roger stated only guys like him and WB and Sengoku can pose threats to him, so basically he was PK lvl in his youth and still strong in his age. I wouldn't be surprise he still stronger than all Marines even FA and Admiral too.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

To get away the "Zolo discussion".....
I believe Garp is stronger than all the admirals. If it wasn't for Sengoku stopping Garp, he would've killed Akainu, but also sustaining grave injuries. Garp has obviously gotten weaker just like Rayleigh and WB. But they are strong enough to compete and defeat an admiral.

Also, I currently rank BB as the weakest Yonko, because he is still inexperienced compared to the rest. I'm sure he'll get stronger but right now, he's the weakest.

Remember do not rank characters based on how they will turn out the at the end of the series but of what they have shown in the manga so far.

Yep Garp and Sengoku were PK/Yonko level (key word on the bolded). They were the only 2 marines able to excite Roger. Only Whitebeard could do that among pirates. But that's the past. Currently, they may have the power to compete with the other top dogs but not for too long. They'll surely be defeated in a one on one with any of the Yonko and at best gravely injure one.

As for Blackbeard, he was the weakest Yonko as at 1.5 years ago or so when he became officially one (key word on the bolded). Currently, he's their equal, nothing states otherwise but he's surely not stronger than any of them based on portrayal. In fact, he seems to be the weakest of the Yonko (again key word on the bolded). You are also perfectly accurate to say he's the least experienced of the 4.
It's true that once you get so high to the level of both Yonko and Admirals, the strength gap between 2 characters becomes marginal hence being weaker here doesn't dictate weakness in and of itself.

 

[thedude]

Argument bores me, w/e.

I'd actually love to see what'd happen if Garp wasn't looked upon favorably anymore, and the WG decided to go after him. Imagine Garp vs. Akainu, we'd probably finally be able to see who's superior. I'm not sure how much weaker Garp's gotten since he fought Roger, he hasn't given any indication of that as far as I recall. It's interesting because Whitebeard declined severely, Rayleigh got rusty, but Garp and Sengoku seem as strong as ever.

Garp was stronger than Akainu, but he's old, and would probably lose now. AT least that's my take...

 

[Ramen]

I'd love to see Prime Sengoku run a gauntlet of top tiers now like the Yonko's and Admirals

Kaido vs Daibutsu would be fun to watch

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 23, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 23, 2020 ---

Who would ya'll say has the strongest Haki? I'm going Garp or Shanks. Garp because with no DF, he was on the same level as Primebeard, Sengoku and Roger.

Shanks basically the same reasons.

 

[nik87]

Who would ya'll say has the strongest Haki? I'm going Garp or Shanks. Garp because with no DF, he was on the same level as Primebeard, Sengoku and Roger.
Shanks basically the same reasons.

Black blade wielder - Mihawk, hands down.

 

[M3J]

Garp seems to have feats with haki, so I'd say him. I hope we get to see his fights with Roger though, would be funny if it was more like Kakashi and Gai's rivalry, and it wasn't just combat.

 

[LaserBeam]

Garp was stronger than Akainu, but he's old, and would probably lose now. AT least that's my take...

I think garp is overrated.
Here is what i think because garp had been in famous incidents like the rox or rocks and some other fights and made it alive he made a name for himself as an after-affect.
This doesn't show anything like for example let's pretend i am in one piece as a character right?
So let's say i fought in the marineford war and made it alive so i made myself a name where at some point everyone will think because i survived that war i am let's say super strong but in fact i could even be super lucky i was alive like maybe someone helped me survive or i was hiding in buildings like a coward.
But no one will know that, every outsider will know i was in that war where they fought strong guys.

Garp could easily be barely alived in those incidents and could easily be saved by roger where roger beat the big baddy and garp just because he was in that fight he got a name for himself.

The guy displayed only armament haki and punches.

Not sure if he has observation but if he had observation he never used it and i do not think he got kings conquer haki otherwise he would have used it as well.
This can easily be implied to every character literally it is the so called faked hype through others calling stories of how strong specific characters are.

we do not even know if he could beat shinki the golden lion alone i would say they could easily be lucky by using seastone cuffs to neutrilizing shinki and beat him he also had sengoku's support so i have this feeling that garp in his prime wouldn't be able to even beat rob lucci of today.

Like if garp's could only beat guys of don chinjao tier well i would say he was definetely not equal to roger or whitebeard and if i would give an overrall strength rate , these guys would have been at 10 and garp barely at 6

 

[AmitDS]

At this point it's not up for debate whether Garp was equal to Roger and WB or not. He clearly was and it has been drilled into our heads over and over again. This is a series kids can read and understand lol. Until further notice, prime Garp is PK leveled.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 23, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 23, 2020 ---

I think garp is overrated.
Here is what i think because garp had been in famous incidents like the rox or rocks and some other fights and made it alive he made a name for himself as an after-affect.
This doesn't show anything like for example let's pretend i am in one piece as a character right?
So let's say i fought in the marineford war and made it alive so i made myself a name where at some point everyone will think because i survived that war i am let's say super strong but in fact i could even be super lucky i was alive like maybe someone helped me survive or i was hiding in buildings like a coward.
But no one will know that, every outsider will know i was in that war where they fought strong guys.

Garp could easily be barely alived in those incidents and could easily be saved by roger where roger beat the big baddy and garp just because he was in that fight he got a name for himself.

The guy displayed only armament haki and punches.

Not sure if he has observation but if he had observation he never used it and i do not think he got kings conquer haki otherwise he would have used it as well.
This can easily be implied to every character literally it is the so called faked hype through others calling stories of how strong specific characters are.

we do not even know if he could beat shinki the golden lion alone i would say they could easily be lucky by using seastone cuffs to neutrilizing shinki and beat him he also had sengoku's support so i have this feeling that garp in his prime wouldn't be able to even beat rob lucci of today.

Like if garp's could only beat guys of don chinjao tier well i would say he was definetely not equal to roger or whitebeard and if i would give an overrall strength rate , these guys would have been at 10 and garp barely at 6

All the statements and info about Garp are placed there for a reason. Oda didn't have him be hyped as Roger's rival so people could say stuff like it doesn't count, their feelings outweigh canon or that Garp was dead weight when Roger fought Rocks. Oda made it clear. Garp and Roger fought and nearly killed one another many times and only him and Sengoku were marines Roger felt challenged by. They also both took on Rocks as partners in their alliance. He wasn't Roger's sidekick.

Just say you dislike Garp and move on.