One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Brandish μ]

Of course but in case of barehanded combatants like Garp, he has to make it plausible.
He cant just show a hand clashing with a sharp weapon and leaving without a scratch.
If such happens, it would open a question - Why use a weapon in the first place?

If it's all about hardness which comes solely from Haki, then, defensively, Zoro without swords is as good as Zoro with swords since his haki doesnt change.
It is foolish to believe such and hardness vs hardness is a flawed logic, which manga itself has debunked several times.
The equation is far from that simple, it has many more factors included than just haki vs haki. There is force, there is surface of the weapon, there is the material of the defender, is the defender stationary, is he moving towards the attacker, is he moving away from the attacker...

All those things matter and are based on real-life physics, exaggerated in OP but still the same laws of physics. Tankman never resisted Cracker's stab, he never took the force head-on with intent to resist it, he went along with the flow, in the direction of the stab. "Dont swim upstream, go with the flow." Most of the things are easy to explain with a basic understanding of the laws of physics.

I don't think it's that complicated.

If you're saying a weapon gives someone more of a chance to be a stronger warrior - I can agree.

But the potential of a fighter is really down to the character, and Oda controls that. I get your point about weaponless fighters though.

 

[thedude]

Can we please stop using mental gymnastics only to pat ourselves on the back to justify our individual PL lists about which Oda doesnt care at all?
Use common sense, if a hand was equal to a sword, the MC himself would be wrecking swordsmen left and right while the exact opposite is happening for 22 years and you are still not getting message the author is trying to get across...

You wont see Oda draw a swordsman trashing a barehanded user because he gets nothing from it, just wastes a powerful character for one panel while he can use him for a chapter long fight against another barehanded combatant. Think as an author of the manga instead like a bad power scaler...

Roger fights with a sword and he isnt a swordsman? The logic of some OP fans...
You would be foolish to think that Luffy or any other barehanded combatant outclasses Zoro this late in the game.
Zoro is the main character alongside Luffy and his goal is to be the strongest ever. You will have to deal with Zoro becoming stronger than anyone else possibly, including Luffy.

Kaido would lose his hands if he went vs Zoro barehanded.
Zoro would mince Garp as well.
The story isnt following Kaido's and Garp's path to the top, it follows Luffy and Zoro.

Oden's swords say hi to Kaido's body, the toughest in the verse.

Lol at Zoro being the main character. He just disappeared for 2 years. Main characters don't do that. Lol. Hell, Sanji just had a 2 year arc dedicated to him. Zoro hasn't had anything like that.

It does not follow Luffy and Zoro. It follows Luffy and The Straw Hats. Of which, Zoro is a member. But he isn't treated special by Oda and put above the others.

Akainu at current levels would beat Zoro and any other SH, including Luffy. In the future, I'm thinking Zoro and Sanji will clash with admirals while Luffy takes Akainu on. (edited, I thought this was Akainu, not Kaido...derp! lol)

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 25, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 25, 2020 ---

Plot is the strongest weapon.

Seriously though, if a character is meant to be strong, Oda will make them that strong, regardless of their 'weapon' type.

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner lol. Like I said, it's why DF-less, 6'6" Shanks can compete with 28" tall Devil Fruit users like Kaido and Big Mom. Your height, your weapon, your DF is not what makes you strong in One Piece. It's Oda's story. It's about will to succeed. He can't make it any more clear than he does by making the strongest power, Haki, literally be your will to fight lol. So if Oda wants to make that strongest person a skinny 5'9" rubber man who only uses his hands to fight...well, that guy is going to be the strongest, swords or no swords. Luffy has the strongest will, and that's stronger than any sword or advanced mythical devil fruit.

The only reason a sword could even compete with a DF like Akainu's magma is Oda doesn't make Akainu use it in the most devastating ways he could. If he used it like Magellan used his poison powers, a sword isn't going to help you as your body melts away. So if we can accept this logic to say "sword>df" (not something I believe, but something Nik and others seem to), it's not hard to put "fists > swords".

Stop arguing the tool, start arguing the characters.

 

[Shasha23]

Lol at Zoro being the main character. He just disappeared for 2 years. Main characters don't do that. Lol. Hell, Sanji just had a 2 year arc dedicated to him. Zoro hasn't had anything like that.

It does not follow Luffy and Zoro. It follows Luffy and The Straw Hats. Of which, Zoro is a member. But he isn't treated special by Oda and put above the others.

Kaido at current levels would beat Zoro and any other SH, including Luffy. In the future, I'm thinking Zoro and Sanji will clash with admirals while Luffy takes Kaido on.

Zoro is a main character, your just getting salty because of Nik's play on words LOL

Zoro has the 2nd most panels in the manga after Luffy, his panel time is almost twice as much as the 3rd ranked strawhat Nami, so yes Oda does favor Zoro more than the others since he draws him more.

There wont be a clash with Kaido in the future, you can forget about that now buddy, Kaido will fight now and die, he wont be coming back again as an enemy.

 

[thedude]

Zoro is a main character, your just getting salty because of Nik's play on words LOL

Zoro has the 2nd most panels in the manga after Luffy, his panel time is almost twice as much as the 3rd ranked strawhat Nami, so yes Oda does favor Zoro more than the others since he draws him more.

There wont be a clash with Kaido in the future, you can forget about that now buddy, Kaido will fight now and die, he wont be coming back again as an enemy.

I meant Akainu, my bad.

But Nik wasn't using a play on words. He was saying, literally, this is about Luffy and Zoro. It isn't. Luffy is the main character, and then all the rest of the SH's have their own motivations that Oda tracks and writes about, but it isn't about any of them individually. It's about Luffy, and his crew.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Garp would probably break the sword and send Cracker flying for miles.



Learn to ignore posts, especially if you're just going to call them a troll.

Exactly its not about swords vs fists but about the quality of haki now

 

[Shasha23]

I meant Akainu, my bad.

But Nik wasn't using a play on words. He was saying, literally, this is about Luffy and Zoro. It isn't. Luffy is the main character, and then all the rest of the SH's have their own motivations that Oda tracks and writes about, but it isn't about any of them individually. It's about Luffy, and his crew.

Oh ok that makes sense

Sure Luffy is the central character but One Piece is different in that the story does not revolve around Luffy and only Luffy, if the story was about Luffy and his crew then the crew would have equal time to shine which they dont, as i pointed out Zoro has double the screen time of Nami who has 30% more screen time that Usopp and Sanji as those 2 keep jousting for who is the 4th most paneled by Oda.

I have alway view One Piece in that there is not traditional MC, i see it as that there are a number of MC's and that they are ranked in terms of relevance as such: Luffy > Zoro > Nami > Usopp > Sanji > Chopper > Robin > Brook > Franky > Jinbe.
From beginning till now Luffy, Zoro and Nami have way more screen time than anyone else, so it wouldn't be right to say its Luffy + the rest since Nami and Zoro have way WAY way more panel time than anyone else.

 

[thedude]

Oh ok that makes sense

Sure Luffy is the central character but One Piece is different in that the story does not revolve around Luffy and only Luffy, if the story was about Luffy and his crew then the crew would have equal time to shine which they dont, as i pointed out Zoro has double the screen time of Nami who has 30% more screen time that Usopp and Sanji as those 2 keep jousting for who is the 4th most paneled by Oda.

I have alway view One Piece in that there is not traditional MC, i see it as that there are a number of MC's and that they are ranked in terms of relevance as such: Luffy > Zoro > Nami > Usopp > Sanji > Chopper > Robin > Brook > Franky > Jinbe.
From beginning till now Luffy, Zoro and Nami have way more screen time than anyone else, so it wouldn't be right to say its Luffy + the rest since Nami and Zoro have way WAY way more panel time than anyone else.

I don't see it that way, I see it as a story where he gives certain characters time to shine, then shuffles them out with others. Zoro, Franky, Usopp, Robin were there on Dressrosa, so they stay behind for WCI, etc. I'm not sure where you are tracking panel time, but frankly reading the manga, I don't really see much difference.

But this is kind of a derailment, i was just setting Nik straight - this is not Luffy and Zoro's story. It's Luffy and the Straw Hats story (which you agree with, you said it yourself, "Luffy and his crew".) There isn't a co-main character like Nik was saying.

 

[nik87]

Lol at Zoro being the main character. He just disappeared for 2 years. Main characters don't do that. Lol. Hell, Sanji just had a 2 year arc dedicated to him. Zoro hasn't had anything like that.

It does not follow Luffy and Zoro. It follows Luffy and The Straw Hats. Of which, Zoro is a member. But he isn't treated special by Oda and put above the others.

Akainu at current levels would beat Zoro and any other SH, including Luffy. In the future, I'm thinking Zoro and Sanji will clash with admirals while Luffy takes Akainu on. (edited, I thought this was Akainu, not Kaido...derp! lol)

Yes, Zoro is a main character. If you didnt know, he is one of the 3 triggers for the story. Other two are Luffy and Nami.
Disappearing for 2 years didnt make him any less relevant. The entire crew bar Luffy has disappeared for around ~2years.
Sanji can have all arcs dedicated to him and he is still not as a relevant character as Zoro.

It does follow Luffy and Zoro since chapter 3. Yes, he is treated above the others, Zoro is basically Luffy with a different combat style.
There are two relevant events in the story of One Piece - Luffy becoming PK and Zoro becoming WSS since the very first chapters.
Everything in the story revolves around their two dreams. Even Nami, while having significantly less focus is a main character.

 

[Pro Ban Corps]

Exactly its not about swords vs fists but about the quality of haki now

Law isn’t a swords man and could probably beat Zoro. And this is fact. Law is another ability based character I struggle to call a swordsman, Cos I believe he can f*ck with you as long as you’re in his Sphere sword is just like a lightning rod for his ability.

 

[thedude]

See, this is the obsession, the way it derails every conversation. It makes this place less and less interesting to visit. Do we really have to debate if Zoro is the co-main character? Really??????

I'm moving on from the stupidity. I never learn my lesson on unblocking him. I give people too many chances to prove me wrong.

New topic - since we were talking about Garp, what is the general consensus on Vice Admirals? I've seen some place them up really high, but Smoker is a VA, and Doflamingo crushed him like a small child. Vice Admiral level isn't really instructive of anything power wise. You have beasts like Garp, who are essentially Admiral level (or was in his prime), and you have guys like Smoker who lose to Warlords.

Wasn't the guy Bartolomeo beat up in the coliseum bathroom also a VA?

 

[Pro Ban Corps]

See, this is the obsession, the way it derails every conversation. It makes this place less and less interesting to visit. Do we really have to debate if Zoro is the co-main character? Really??????

I'm moving on from the stupidity. I never learn my lesson on unblocking him. I give people too many chances to prove me wrong.

New topic - since we were talking about Garp, what is the general consensus on Vice Admirals? I've seen some place them up really high, but Smoker is a VA, and Doflamingo crushed him like a small child. Vice Admiral level isn't really instructive of anything power wise. You have beasts like Garp, who are essentially Admiral level (or was in his prime), and you have guys like Smoker who lose to Warlords.

Wasn't the guy Bartolomeo beat up in the coliseum bathroom also a VA?

Yeah I think it depends on the ones with abilities Aokiji as a VA offed Saul in seconds
Garp a VA could probably end Aokiji or as of Marineford Akainu.

 

[thedude]

Yeah I think it depends on the ones with abilities Aokiji as a VA offed Saul in seconds
Garp a VA could probably end Aokiji or as of Marineford Akainu.

Right, that's why I don't think it works as a "level" for power scaling that people like to argue. Maynard, the guy Bartolomeo beat up, wasn't anything special. But Bastille, the guy he reported to, probably is pretty strong (although no match for Ace at all).

 

[HereNThere]

I wish there weren't so many Vice Admirals mainly. I think we'd have a clearer understanding of their strengths if we didn't have a million of them and we didn't see them immediately fodderized. As it stands, they could be weaker than a next generation Super Rookie or as strong as an Admiral.

 

[nik87]

Law isn’t a swords man and could probably beat Zoro. And this is fact. Law is another ability based character I struggle to call a swordsman, Cos I believe he can f*ck with you as long as you’re in his Sphere sword is just like a lightning rod for his ability.

Why did Oda call Law a swordsman and why is Law teaching Tashigi what it takes to be a swordsman?

 

[Pro Ban Corps]

Why did Oda call Law a swordsman and why is Law teaching Tashigi what it takes to be a swordsman?

Anyone with a brain understands what I mean....

 

[nik87]

Anyone with a brain understands what I mean....

What you wrote is all but a fact. I am sure that Oda is not interested in what any of us believe and he clearly considers Law a swordsman.
You have to understand that our personal beliefs and PL lists don't affect Oda's view of his own work.

 

[hokageji]

To say "this is OP so real world physics don't apply" is just another way of saying "I just made these rules up".

Because sharp objects are still shown superior to flesh in OP, sometimes even without haki. Hody Jones vs Luffy is a very good example of this.

Because no matter how you want to twist it — it's logical to think that sharp/pointy objects that have better hardness than flesh will deal damage to said flesh.

To counter swords you need to have more than just equal level of haki.

Well, some aspects of real world don't apply, and as we dig deeper into science, that becomes more and more obvious. Like rubber is not a perfect insulator of electricity. Its good for low voltage levels but not high ones, like Eneru's attack... So when i say "real world physics doesn't apply here" its in that level of detail.
Just like the hardness argument, there are just way too many things that you dig deeper just hijacks the argument to a different direction..

So when you say sharp objects are siuperior to flesh, of course they are. But that doesn't make a swordsmen superior.... So Garp vs Mihawk doesnt determine Mihawk as superior alone because of his sword skills.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Well, some aspects of real world don't apply, and as we dig deeper into science, that becomes more and more obvious. Like rubber is not a perfect insulator of electricity. Its good for low voltage levels but not high ones, like Eneru's attack... So when i say "real world physics doesn't apply here" its in that level of detail.
Just like the hardness argument, there are just way too many things that you dig deeper just hijacks the argument to a different direction..

So when you say sharp objects are siuperior to flesh, of course they are. But that doesn't make a swordsmen superior.... So Garp vs Mihawk doesnt determine Mihawk as superior alone because of his sword skills.

Personally, I'm not arguing about who's superior to who.

It could be that Mihawk > Garp, could be the other way around (even though I'm pretty convinced Mihawk as he is right now is stronger).

But let's imagine there are two versions of Garp. One normal Garp and one with a sword. I'm betting my money on the one with a sword. That's all I'm saying.

 

[hokageji]

But let's imagine there are two versions of Garp. One normal Garp and one with a sword. I'm betting my money on the one with a sword. That's all I'm saying.

A sword is only as good as the wielder....so its really about how good Garp is with the sword, since haki levels will be the same.

 

[Ramen]

Shanks > Mihawk.