One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Nie Li]

I really hope we see at least one person harden their teeth in their Zoan form and bite someone.

I wish. Drake was already able to bite into a Pacifista before the timeskip, back in a time when Zoro's shishi sonson could barely scar Kuma's body.
Drake's and Page One's bites now should be just monstruous.

 

[HereNThere]

Well, Brachiosaurus wouldn't have sharp teeth, neither would the mammoth, so Queen and Jack are out there lol.

Jack can use armament on his tusk, so that'd be cool. Especially if his hybrid mode looks awesome.

Queen, that's fair. But he can use armament on his neck and whip it around. That'd be a good compromise. Maybe Oda will expand on the stuff Kaku was doing.

 

[Shasha23]

@Shasha23 The reason you place Kidd and Drake above Zoro is because of the report that those two are making waves in New World?
Dont you think that is unfair to Zoro who has been laying low for 2 years and cant possibly have the same info attached?

Yeah i view Kid, Drake and Blackbeard as Luffy's rivals, so i place them ahead of Zoro.
Seeing as how Oda is holding back Zoro and the rest of the crew i wouldn't be shocked even if Zoro had 2 years in NW Oda would just keep relevant people away from Zoro or have people like Doffy being saved by Fujitora from Zoro again.

 

[nik87]

Yeah i view Kid, Drake and Blackbeard as Luffy's rivals, so i place them ahead of Zoro.
Seeing as how Oda is holding back Zoro and the rest of the crew i wouldn't be shocked even if Zoro had 2 years in NW Oda would just keep relevant people away from Zoro or have people like Doffy being saved by Fujitora from Zoro again.

What are your wildest expectations for Zoro's PL in Wano? What would surprise you?

 

[Shasha23]

What are your wildest expectations for Zoro's PL in Wano? What would surprise you?

I see him as competent level VC of yonko crew tipping on the point of being of the stronger end

 

[King Moe]

Zoro might be YC lvl, but not YC1 lvl really as after beating Orochi he isn't still fully YC lvl especially if Apoo can make him retreat. Oda wouldn't do dramatic power increase in that manner and be above YCs entirely. Still take time about his development.

 

[thedude]

All SH's are below a level...until they are not anymore. I think Zoro and Sanji will be at YC level either this arc or next, there aren't many arcs remaining.

(enough with the Orochi trolling Moe...that fight makes no sense for any SH).

 

[King Moe]

All SH's are below a level...until they are not anymore. I think Zoro and Sanji will be at YC level either this arc or next, there aren't many arcs remaining.

(enough with the Orochi trolling Moe...that fight makes no sense for any SH).

Not a troll. Zoro vs Orochi can happen given how Zoro wants him after all and many traits on how it could happen from it.

 

[HereNThere]

Not a troll. Zoro vs Orochi can happen given how Zoro wants him after all and many traits on how it could happen from it.

After Oden's flashback, it really wouldn't make much sense anymore.

Orochi needs to be saved for the Scabbards, Momo and Hiyori. He represents the fall of Wano and they are the rise. The whole prophecy Toki foretold of explicitly links Orochi's fall and Wano's subsequent emancipation to them.

Zoro waltzing in and kill stealing would be a terrible move narratively.

 

[Nie Li]

Zoro might be YC lvl, but not YC1 lvl really as after beating Orochi he isn't still fully YC lvl especially if Apoo can make him retreat. Oda wouldn't do dramatic power increase in that manner and be above YCs entirely. Still take time about his development.

I think there are a few nuances about the Apoo affair that we should take into account.

- Apoo damaging Zoro and Luffy wasn't a feat of haki and possibly even of strength, since it turns out it wasn't even that attacks were hidden in the soundwaves, but rather that "listening to his music causes instant heavy injuries", something that caught Zoro naturally off guard. So far Apoo has got Luffy, Zoro, Kizaru and Eustass with that, although Kizaru, being a logia, wasn't hurt for real.
- Zoro running away there together with Luffy and Eustass doesn't mean they can't beat Apoo in a 1vs1. Neither does it mean that they can, though, but Zoro was there especifically trying to get Luffy away from trouble (despite he himself being loud and obvious as part of the gag). It was smart to not stay in the middle of the plaza fighting everyone.
- Apoo and Hawkins being headliners doesn't mean that they're weaker than Tobi Roppo and Drake. Drake joined the Beast Pirates two years ago, just at the start of the timeskip, and he raised in their ranks during this time. He seems comfortable there now. Probably because if he had a higher rank it would become harder to pass information unnoticed, but by the time Apoo and Hawkins confronted Kaido Luffy was already in Punk Hazard.

So to sum it up I see no shame in retreating to Apoo under those circumstances.

 

[King Moe]

After Oden's flashback, it really wouldn't make much sense anymore.

Orochi needs to be saved for the Scabbards, Momo and Hiyori. He represents the fall of Wano and they are the rise. The whole prophecy Toki foretold of explicitly links Orochi's fall and Wano's subsequent emancipation to them.

Zoro waltzing in and kill stealing would be a terrible move narratively.

True, but since when those in the arc ever get to fave the someone they habe most vendetta about? Look at Doflamingo. Luffy was one to beat him despite not much vendetta compare to most. Same with Zoro as Oda make Strawhats get involve eben when it doesn't concern them. It's not first time not last time. It's still possibility especially Zoro said he wants Orochi himself after all.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 10, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 8, 2020 ---

How would you guys rank how strong CP0 are in both Marines and overall in the series? Feel like they be playing role again for Strawhats to face in the future, probably when they Pirates invade Marineford once more.

Think they are like inbetween of Admirals and Vice Admirals of how strong they are even with returning members like Rob Lucci who pretty sure has improve since then to how he was pre-timeskip. Overall they might be on the level of either YC lvl opponents or High Veterans of a Yonko Crew. Thinking we get rematch between him and Luffy when that happens and everyone else facing CP0 as well? What you all think?

 

[HereNThere]

How would you guys rank how strong CP0 are in both Marines and overall in the series?

High Veterans at the very least. From what we've seen and heard, they are directly under the Nobles and act as bodyguards.

Depending on how you read Mother Caramel's line about Cipher Pol, they might be near Admiral level or so, seeing as how she mentioned them in the same breath.

We've also had several pieces of Oda supervised but likely non canon media showing Lucci clashing with Sabo, who we know can decently keep up with an Admiral.

 

[King Moe]

High Veterans at the very least. From what we've seen and heard, they are directly under the Nobles and act as bodyguards.

Depending on how you read Mother Caramel's line about Cipher Pol, they might be near Admiral level or so, seeing as how she mentioned them in the same breathe.

We've also had several pieces of Oda supervised but likely non canon media showing Lucci clashing with Sabo, who we know can decently keep up with an Admiral.

I can believe that, meaning that could be like among Marines who can match YC lvl threats and while non-canon, it does show Oda did give the go on Lucci able to fight off Sabo, so him and others should confirmed they should be taken as YC lvl threat, but than again that special OVA with Mad Treasure had him beaten one of them (Even though not a 'massive takedown) and Luffy later beats him without G4 use, so hard to say on their range around.

 

[Nie Li]

How would you guys rank how strong CP0 are in both Marines and overall in the series? Feel like they be playing role again for Strawhats to face in the future, probably when they Pirates invade Marineford once more.

Well, we can't say much about the CP0 members other than Lucci and Kaku since we have seen too little of them, so I'll talk about Lucci:
When he first appeared he was physically above base Luffy, and even though Luffy surpassed him with G2, he was so close to losing that he couldn't move after the finishing move and he only could bring out the strength to perform it thanks to Usopp's interference.

Of course, if Lucci has remained at that level, he would be shit by now, but we can safely assume he'll have some degree of both kinds of normal haki now. Just by having CoA he would have killed Luffy with shigan in the first seconds of the fight by then, and CoO goes hand to hand incredibly well with the Kami-e technique of the Rokushiki.
More than this, it's safe to assume until the manga says otherwise that Lucci will be boosted more than simply having learnt haki, based on how much of a genius he already was before and how fast he gets stronger: He was said to be around the same level of douriki as Kaku and Jyabura before starting his infiltration on Galley-La Company. We don't know what dourikis they had exactly back then but we know that after 5 years of infiltration during which he had to work as a shipwright and couldn't be seen training his martial arts, he came out double as strong as Jyabura and Kaku. If these past two years he's been working as a CP0 agent and has had time to actually train, he should be a on a whole different level just by his base stats.
It was also mentioned back in the day that he was the strongest Rokushiki user ever and he should now be more dangerous than guys like Vergo (who only used haki and rokushiki. The same asset Lucci has minus a Zoan).

Sadly, since Lucci already performed his role as the main villain of an arc back in the day, there's no way Oda will recycle him as an important antagonist Luffy has to surpass again, but I think he deserves it.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 10, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 10, 2020 ---

So I looked up the Rokushiki in the One Piece Wikia and this paragraph came out:

So I guess it's confirmed that Lucci has Haki now and that his Haki has upgraded the related techniques (all but Geppou I guess? Even Rokuougan by definition is similar to the haki Luffy's trying to learn now).

Anyone knows where to read that Visual Dictionary? Seems like it is very informative.

 

[HereNThere]

Anyone knows where to read that Visual Dictionary? Seems like it is very informative.

Vivre Card Databook

Every month, two packs of the new Vivre Card Databook come out. These contain new, never heard before canon information directly from Oda! Each month I translate and collect all the new information…

thelibraryofohara.com

 

[goldb]

It'd make no sense for Oda to introduce a Cipher Pol group after CP9 and not make them stronger, consider that our main protagonists are getting stronger as they move through the New World. We can only really predict Lucci and Kaku's strength based on what we've seen and how strong their opponents have become since their last clash on Enies Lobby.
There's also that one guy who took a bullet to the head point blank from Orochi and just carried on as normal. So that means at the very least the have master rokushiki users, and at most very profficient haki users too.

WG rank-wise they'd have to be at least Vice Admiral level, which is a sign of great strength but also because that is an officer rank that disparity in terms of strength.

It would be great to see Luffy clash with Lucci even if briefly, just to get a comparison on how far apart they really are.

 

[Nie Li]

So I'm reading the Vibre Card stuff and there's some very interesting things. Like "Even if many considered them [Shiliew and Magellan] equals, Shiliew definitely feared Magellan", or how Mihawk was already famous before Roger's death and a hint of what he accomplished to be called the WSS.
Very useful stuff to understand these characters and how powerful they are more in deep.

It'd make no sense for Oda to introduce a Cipher Pol group after CP9 and not make them stronger, consider that our main protagonists are getting stronger as they move through the New World. We can only really predict Lucci and Kaku's strength based on what we've seen and how strong their opponents have become since their last clash on Enies Lobby.
There's also that one guy who took a bullet to the head point blank from Orochi and just carried on as normal. So that means at the very least the have master rokushiki users, and at most very profficient haki users too.

WG rank-wise they'd have to be at least Vice Admiral level, which is a sign of great strength but also because that is an officer rank that disparity in terms of strength.

It would be great to see Luffy clash with Lucci even if briefly, just to get a comparison on how far apart they really are.

I just hope they're strong enough to not get dissed as "weak" (comparatively speaking) side characters. It'd be awesome if Lucci gets to save some face against Luffy even if they don't have a full fight.
Think some CP0 members may get a fight in this arc? If so, whose side would they help? I have a hard time understanding the CP's best interests here.

 

[thedude]

Oda's never really made a good past opponent weak on their reappearance. Crocodile was on level 6, and he had a great showing in Marine Ford. Even Bellamy was much stronger the next time we saw him, after Luffy coldly one shotted him. So Lucci, a guy who gave Luffy a brutal fight, should still be pretty strong. I just hope if he tries to fight him, Zoro or Sanji stop him and say "you don't get the boss again" and have a good fight against him instead.

 

[goldb]

I just hope they're strong enough to not get dissed as "weak" (comparatively speaking) side characters. It'd be awesome if Lucci gets to save some face against Luffy even if they don't have a full fight.
Think some CP0 members may get a fight in this arc? If so, whose side would they help? I have a hard time understanding the CP's best interests here.

As I said I don't think Oda would introduce a group above CP9 that were weak, but there are likely to be much weaker individuals than Lucci. He seems to be high ranking but wasn't re-introduced as the leader of this cipher pol. So someone even stronger than him leading them?

The way I envision them clashing is whenever Luffy meets his dad. As Cipher Pol have a lot of...entanglements with the Revolutionary Army, it's possible for Luffy and Lucci around a situation involving these factions.

As for this arc, it seems they left to go report back to whoever about Orochi's request for Vegapunk. I don't think it's necessary to involve unless it was for political reasons. That's the only way I see them clashing with the crew anyway.

 

[King Moe]

The CP0 have to be something important and major given fact they been prominent since Dressrosa in majority of each arc except Zou to the story and Oda pushing them to be dangerous that they are even above Grand Fleet level since Lucci had no problem hurting Sai and Leo (I know though wasn't true fight and weren't defeated, but still on showing I mean). Plus there still mystery of CP9 members if all of them became CP0 as Jabra and others on their whereabouts and masked unknown members too. Pretty sure Oda is setting up another battle between Cipher Pol and Strawhats again, but they weren't be necessarily main targets as it be more Gorosei, Fleet Admiral, and Admirals will be more heavy main forces in future arc I think. Though no doubt can still give good fight to one another before the final battle with stronger enemies at Marineford.