One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I will write a response later. Kinda busy at the moment.

Save your breath.

At this point, he is doing more of trashing Zoro as a character than respecting him


It continues to be sad

 

[King Moe]

Can you post that comment?
An admiral being serious is different to Zoro. We know what Admirals are capable of.



Yes he lacks proof. We know he will end up surpassing them but as of right now he hasn't shown anything that proves so. Again, the burden of proof isn't on the former, it's on the latter.



Given Akainu tanked WB strongest attack then shrugged it off one chapter later. He wouldn't be able to even catch Kizaru and Kiazru has more AP than Zoro does. Big Mom is a physical beast. Her haki is some of the best we've seen in the entire series. Gear 4 Luffy can't even scratch her.

Someone like Aokiji fought Akainu for 10 days straight. Akainu had a more powerful logia and an elemental advantage. The durability between Zoro and someone like Akainu is night and day.

It's one thing to surpass Mihawk, but Idk about Shanks as he was push on another level than Mihawk. Pre-Yonko Shanks, maybe. Though Yonko Shanks seems to be much more than his younger days.

 

[The Prince of Darkness]

To make things clear without BS (nik) or downplay (Moe) :
Is Zoro a top tier?
No.
Will he be one?
Yes. But for now he didn't show us enough to put him there.
Is he one of the top Supernovas?
Yes. Easily in the top 5 (from those we saw until now)
Will he defeat Kaido?
No.
Will he help defeat Kaido?
Possibly.
Will he fight a Calamity?
Possibly. If he does, 90% chances he gets King.
Will he fight Kanjuro and Orochi?
Possibly. With less than 5% chances of that happening.
Will he ever be stronger than his Captain?
Not a chance.
Will he be the WSS?
Yes, at some point of the story.
Is he stronger than Sanji?
Pretty much equal, with Zoro being a tiny bit above

 

[nik87]

To make things clear without BS (nik) or downplay (Moe) :
Is Zoro a top tier?
No.
Will he be one?
Yes. But for now he didn't show us enough to put him there.
Is he one of the top Supernovas?
Yes. Easily in the top 5 (from those we saw until now)
Will he defeat Kaido?
No.
Will he help defeat Kaido?
Possibly.
Will he fight a Calamity?
Possibly. If he does, 90% chances he gets King.
Will he fight Kanjuro and Orochi?
Possibly. With less than 5% chances of that happening.
Will he ever be stronger than his Captain?
Not a chance.
Will he be the WSS?
Yes, at some point of the story.
Is he stronger than Sanji?
Pretty much equal, with Zoro being a tiny bit above

You couldnt be wrong more if you wanted to...

 

[Ramen]

It's one thing to surpass Mihawk, but Idk about Shanks as he was push on another level than Mihawk. Pre-Yonko Shanks, maybe. Though Yonko Shanks seems to be much more than his younger days.

Yonko Shanks and Mihawk should be close to each other if not equal. I have Shanks above Mihawk but only like 0.0001 .

 

[King Moe]

Yonko Shanks and Mihawk should be close to each other if not equal. I have Shanks above Mihawk but only like 0.0001 .

Given Marineford performance, they are not equals as just because you face someone in the past, doesn't mean your still at their level as we can test to Moria vs Kaido situation for example. Mihawk is still strong though, but not at what Shanks have to offer more overall.

 

[Ramen]

Given Marineford performance, they are not equals as just because you face someone in the past, doesn't mean your still at their level as we can test to Moria vs Kaido situation for example. Mihawk is still strong though, but not at what Shanks have to offer more overall.

Shanks stopped the war. Mihawk had everyone shook when he stepped up.

 

[King Moe]

To make things clear without BS (nik) or downplay (Moe) :
Is Zoro a top tier?
No.
Will he be one?
Yes. But for now he didn't show us enough to put him there.
Is he one of the top Supernovas?
Yes. Easily in the top 5 (from those we saw until now)
Will he defeat Kaido?
No.
Will he help defeat Kaido?
Possibly.
Will he fight a Calamity?
Possibly. If he does, 90% chances he gets King.
Will he fight Kanjuro and Orochi?
Possibly. With less than 5% chances of that happening.
Will he ever be stronger than his Captain?
Not a chance.
Will he be the WSS?
Yes, at some point of the story.
Is he stronger than Sanji?
Pretty much equal, with Zoro being a tiny bit above

Not downplay, just being legit to reality. Though surprise you can be honest unlike those on your side. For your questions/answers:

I agree with you on the first one.

Of course he be a top tier at EOS, but not strongest of all of them which we were debating against.

Ehh....Not now, but later on he can be Top 5, but his Wano performance and NW doesn't put him Top 5 at all. At best Mid or Low side looking at credibility of the others.

Thank you for being someone who can admit that from Zoro fanboyism side. Though Idk about if he will help out as again Luffy doesn't ask his crew to fine his major enemies in the arc. Having sword doesn't equal you be one to do something when everything pushes more Luffy be major one to leave damage and best Kaido. I do see him beating T6H or YC lvl opponent with it, but doubt on going for Kaido at all.

To Calamity and Orochi and Kanjuro, not really on King anymore given major threats being Macro and Sanji as fliers of the group and last thing we want is Pica 2.0. in running and chase fight before he needs help to take him while his guard is down. Kanjuro (If he is doing same 'acting' again), Orochi (If lore is real with him and come backs stronger and have regeneration), Smoothie, or maybe Queen can suffice on him beating YC lvl opponent.

Thank you for admitting he isn't and never be stronger than Luffy.

He will be WSS that is for sure.

Equals and always will be as Oda love their rivalry too much to say who is stronger than who and always compete on who's better similar to a Naruto and Sasuke vibe.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 15, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 15, 2020 ---

Shanks stopped the war. Mihawk had everyone shook when he stepped up.

Lol when he shook anyone? They saw him more scrub than shook. Admirals shook everyone more along with Yonkos. Heck even Luffy did and wasn't stronger than him that time. Mihawk did have a presence, but it was not much of a factor to the point if Crocodile can counter you and your only wins are Daz Bones and Impel Down Prisoners.

 

[Ramen]

Not downplay, just being legit to reality. Though surprise you can be honest unlike those on your side. For your questions/answers:

I agree with you on the first one.

Of course he be a top tier at EOS, but not strongest of all of them which we were debating against.

Ehh....Not now, but later on he can be Top 5, but his Wano performance and NW doesn't put him Top 5 at all. At best Mid or Low side looking at credibility of the others.

Thank you for being someone who can admit that from Zoro fanboyism side. Though Idk about if he will help out as again Luffy doesn't ask his crew to fine his major enemies in the arc. Having sword doesn't equal you be one to do something when everything pushes more Luffy be major one to leave damage and best Kaido. I do see him beating T6H or YC lvl opponent with it, but doubt on going for Kaido at all.

To Calamity and Orochi and Kanjuro, not really on King anymore given major threats being Macro and Sanji as fliers of the group and last thing we want is Pica 2.0. in running and chase fight before he needs help to take him while his guard is down. Kanjuro (If he is doing same 'acting' again), Orochi (If lore is real with him and come backs stronger and have regeneration), Smoothie, or maybe Queen can suffice on him beating YC lvl opponent.

Thank you for admitting he isn't and never be stronger than Luffy.

He will be WSS that is for sure.

Equals and always will be as Oda love their rivalry too much to say who is stronger than who and always compete on who's better similar to a Naruto and Sasuke vibe.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 15, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 15, 2020 ---

Lol when he shook anyone? They saw him more scrub than shook. Admirals shook everyone more along with Yonkos. Heck even Luffy did and wasn't stronger than him that time. Mihawk did have a presence, but it was not much of a factor to the point if Crocodile can counter you and your only wins are Daz Bones and Impel Down Prisoners.

People were surprised when he chose to participate. Even Akainu commented on it.

I see it as Shanks >= Mihawk.

 

[King Moe]

People were surprised when he chose to participate. Even Akainu commented on it.

I see it as Shanks >= Mihawk.

Though didn't treat him in same sentence or status compare to Admirals and Yonkos who shook foundation of the war more, he was just one of the Warlords who is now off and being hunted down with no hesitation unlike how they are hesitate to go after those who are really Yonko lvl.

Mihawk does have status and presence, but not that far up. At best you can say he is in-between of Admirals and YCs, but even then YCs were able to stop him with ease unlike when they face an actual Admiral and Yonko and lost easily to them.

 

[roggie]

I was taking a look at this WSS title, "Greatest Swordsman in the World" (世界最強の剣士, Sekai Saikyō no Kenshi

I'm not sure how precise is this, but kenshi can be translated as blade.

Anyway, WB weapon is considered a Meito (名刀, Meitō, literally meaning "Famed Blade")

So, the WSS would imply Mihawk is stronger than WB. While WB title, Strongest Man in the World" (世界最強の男, Sekai Saikyō no Otoko), implies he was stronger than Mihawk.

Nice paradox. Unless we get real and take this titles for what they are: propaganda

 

[M3J]

Eh, most titles seem to be hype tools and nothing more but also kind of misinterpreted. Like, Mihawk is the World's Greatest Swordsman, but that does imply that he's not the greatest overall fighter, just that he can beat anyone in a swordfight while someone like Whitebeard could beat Mihawk due to his hype.

 

[King Moe]

Eh, most titles seem to be hype tools and nothing more but also kind of misinterpreted. Like, Mihawk is the World's Greatest Swordsman, but that does imply that he's not the greatest overall fighter, just that he can beat anyone in a swordfight while someone like Whitebeard could beat Mihawk due to his hype.

I mean Mihawk never once set foot on Wano Country and people don't seem to have heard of him either, so we can take his title more like Marines gave him than he deserved all around the world as seems like it and facing just Shanks when he was Pre-Yonko isn't enough to justify he is WSS to be honest. We got feats and performance more on Whitebeard on why he is WSM and deserve it after people he face all around from Roger, Garp, Sengoku, Kaido, Big Mom, Shiki, his time as Rock Pirates member with them (Possibly YC1 on the crew), and so on.

Can't really compare them in same status especially we can see who Oda have push on more their title and status compare to the others.

 

[M3J]

Why the Marines? Zoro sees him as a WSS as well.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I wouldn't have a problem with Zoro beheading Kaido to end the fight, in the right context. I just think it would be trash character development to Zoro for his greatest feat to come from killing a monster who his Captain had defeated.

I don't think it will happen, and I'd rather see Zoro just cut Kaido in a joint effort.

Truthfully I think Blackbeard pulls a marineford and takes Kaido's df... but that can be repetitive.

 

[Ramen]

Yes, we know what Admirals are capable of and Zoro will be capable of more and there aint much time left and he isnt pulling gears which make him stronger.

We don't know how much time is left, Oda can take his time building up the final moments knowing this is his end. His equivalent of gears are swords. All gears 1-3 are irrelevant now. The only one that helps him lessen the power gap is 4. Similar to Enma.

Neither has he shown that he isnt capable of it, there simply was no such opportunity.
I know where the burden of proof is, once we got the proof, I dont need to guess anymore.
The point here is to guess it right ahead of time.

Well we know what's going to happen so guessing for the future is not needed. We can assume right now and I believe Zoro hasn't shown enough to warrant a high diff battle with the two most powerful swordsman in OP at the moment.

Well, Akainu didnt tank WB's strongest attack, WB dropped his weapon when going after Akainu, a weapon that is incomparably more lethal than a punch.
Rayleigh in his old age and decades of inactivity caught Kizaru just fine and if I am right, Zoro and Kizaru will fight, the payback for Sabaody.
Kizaru's AP actually seems low compared to Zoro's. Does Kizary have anything to blow up stone mountain like Zoro did? Zoro is a physical beast too, we might actually see him against Big Mom in Wano. Zoro's haki needs to be better than hers when he forges the black blade. Luffy couldnt scratch Kaido either, Scabbards didnt have the same problem and Zoro is not the same tier of a beast like Scabbards, he is much higher.

Akainu and Aokiji was extreme diff, regardless of its duration. The durability? As long as Zoro blocks with his swords, his durability is impeccable. He actually has a weapon between his body and the attack while Akainu takes it with his body, even tho his DF allows his body to act kinda like a weapon but still, if it isnt inflated magma fist, it's still his body.

His punch to Akainu's gut was PoF driven which makes it more lethal then when he was using his weapon. Rayleigh was getting tired and sweating after a couple of minutes but Kizaru was just fine. Yea I don't doubt Zoro might get his revenge but it's too early right now. What does Zoro have that in terms of AP, can compare to Yasakani no Magatama? Kizaru can easily blow up a mountain, all the OG admirals are easily capable of replicating a feat like this. His physicals are elite I will give him that but I don't know about Big Mom level. Luffy went full on against Kaido, the scabbards caught him off guard which didn't really affect him. He got caught and shrugged it off. Luffy could do the same if he snuck up behind him. Same with Zoro. In a head to head Zoro is getting knocked out by a Raimei Hakkei.

Akainu has tanked worse. Aokiji fighting someone like that for 10 days straight shows his durability given the extent of their injuries.




Were going back and forth based on predictions. I'll leave it like this until proven otherwise.

 

[nik87]

We don't know how much time is left, Oda can take his time building up the final moments knowing this is his end. His equivalent of gears are swords. All gears 1-3 are irrelevant now. The only one that helps him lessen the power gap is 4. Similar to Enma.

Actually, swords arent equal to gears. Number of swords doesnt change any of his stats except destructive capability.
His speed, his durability, his endurance, his Haki, his lethality dont change. Comparing swords to gears is really bad example.
Zoro's 1 sword style isnt irrelevant, it can chop off Kaido's head, just like 2 sword style and 3 sword style.

Enma is featless, it does nothing for Zoro. You are trying to justify Zoro's strength and you are trying to blame it on Enma...
It doesnt work that way, Enma isnt making him physically stronger, faster, doesnt increase his durability, his endurance, his lethality, nothing...
Zoro is already as strong as it gets, only minor improvements will happen from now on. He hasnt trained once since TS ended, getting used to Enma aside.

Well we know what's going to happen so guessing for the future is not needed. We can assume right now and I believe Zoro hasn't shown enough to warrant a high diff battle with the two most powerful swordsman in OP at the moment.

You know? Tell me.
He has no power-ups coming his way that will make him comparable to two most powerful swordsmen in the world.
He already needs to be comparable to them even if there is no proof of such strength, logically, because there was no opportunity to prove it until now.
He has everything he needs to be a top tier and we finally reached a point in the story where he gets to prove it.

His punch to Akainu's gut was PoF driven which makes it more lethal then when he was using his weapon. Rayleigh was getting tired and sweating after a couple of minutes but Kizaru was just fine. Yea I don't doubt Zoro might get his revenge but it's too early right now. What does Zoro have that in terms of AP, can compare to Yasakani no Magatama? Kizaru can easily blow up a mountain, all the OG admirals are easily capable of replicating a feat like this. His physicals are elite I will give him that but I don't know about Big Mom level. Luffy went full on against Kaido, the scabbards caught him off guard which didn't really affect him. He got caught and shrugged it off. Luffy could do the same if he snuck up behind him. Same with Zoro. In a head to head Zoro is getting knocked out by a Raimei Hakkei.

Akainu has tanked worse. Aokiji fighting someone like that for 10 days straight shows his durability given the extent of their injuries.
Were going back and forth based on predictions. I'll leave it like this until proven otherwise.

No, the punch can never be as lethal as a sharp weapon, that is the point of using a weapon.
Actually, Rayleigh was just fine, it is Kizaru who vented his frustrations on nearby random pirates because he couldnt deal with Rayleigh.
ISDS is just one attack and will probably do more damage than countless lasers from Yasakani no Magatama. If not, Zoro can send countless slashes one after another and one slash is certainly more powerful than one laser shot...

Actually, Kizaru cant easily blow up a mountain, he barely destroyed a tree on Sabaody...
Kizaru's physicals are nothing out of order compared to other top tiers, even old, retired top tiers like Rayleigh...
Luffy's combat style has always been ineffective, that's why he needs tens and tens of clean hits to take out any opponent worth mentioning while Zoro does it in one clean slash.

Well, Luffy literally did nothing to Kaido while someone like Kiku pierced through his hand, cleanly and certainly affecting him more than anything Luffy threw at him. Luffy did sneak up on him and did nothing... Kaido wasnt doing anything to defend against his attacks and yet, one big zero for Luffy.
Zoro attacking Kaido and Kaido doing nothing to defend himself ends up with dead Kaido, you dont have to be too much into power scaling to realize that.

Whether Zoro gets knocked out with Thunder Bagua or not is something nobody knows, not you, not me.
I havent seen Akainu tanking worse. He can fight Aokiji for 100 days off panel, it didnt help him to stand 1 minute vs enraged Whitebeard.
Yeah, it is a wise decision to wait until the end of Wano to see where Zoro actually stands.

 

[Brandish μ]

Luffy was not effective against Kaido due to the former lacking 'ryou' at the time.

Luffy is going to be a master of this haki by the end of this arc, and advancing this haki might improve his G4 or create G5.

 

[nik87]

Luffy is going to be a master of this haki by the end of this arc, and advancing this haki might improve his G4 or create G5.

He is already a master of it.
Ofc it will improve his G4, he will go from not scratching Kaido to scratching him.
Yeah, he needs G5 too probably because G4 drawbacks are nasty.

 

[Brandish μ]

He is already a master of it.
Ofc it will improve his G4, he will go from not scratching Kaido to scratching him.
Yeah, he needs G5 too probably because G4 drawbacks are nasty.

He'll get better at it during the fight, that's where the progress will be made.