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Discussion One Piece Power level Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'One Piece' started by nik87, Jul 15, 2017.

  1. Aizen

    Aizen Mangahelper

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    This thread is for Power level discussions of the various characters in One Piece. Please be mindful to keep discussions respectful and on topic.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2018
  2. catagon87

    catagon87 Registered User

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    I think Jack vs Sanji would be interesting further down the arc. We have no idea how much the raid suit will actually increase Sanji's fighting power. They definitely made a huge difference for the Germa siblings. This is a good tool for Oda to give Sanji some flex in his power. I know some are going to say Sanji using a RAID suit is BS, but I don't personally see it as being different to Zoro's swords, Nami's Clima Tact, Usopp's plants / sling shot, Franky's Armor, or Chopper's pills. Up until now, Sanji has been the only one on the whole crew to rely 100% on a non-modified body as his weapon of choice.

    The other thing is Luffy has a bone to pick with Jack. Pretty sure that Luffy doesn't take too kindly to people committing genocide via a chemical weapon. If Jack shows up soon, there's no way Luffy isn't going to fight him. Forget about Sanji.. Sanji isn't even around at the moment. If Jack shows up, as O'kiku said he would if Holdem is injured, to raze the leftover town, then Luffy vs Jack is certainly going to happen. It would be a good way for Oda to kick off Wano with a huge bang. However, if Jack happens further down the line, then I could see a different Strawhat handling him, no problem. Possibly Sanji. I feel like Zoro is going to have to fight the Shogun, if the Shogun is a strong fighter (which I think he will be. Not sure why Kaido would elevate the status of a weakling so high. He has plenty of strong people willing to bend the knee to him).
     
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  3. nik87

    nik87 Registered User

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    @King Moe If you take a step back from desperately wanting Sanji to shine you would realize that you are making up some weird logic, arguing just for the sake of argument and putting Sanji into an impossible fight.
    Same can be said for Zoro? No, it can not. Zoro has swords to block Jack's swords, Cat had a spear and Dog had a sword. What is Sanji going to use to block Jack's swords? I said, even if Sanji shows hardening its not improving his odds against Jack. Not even Luffy was taking on the sword attacks from Cracker and Cracker is most likely weaker than Jack. Luffy who is far above Sanji barely managed to beat the commanders and you expect the same feat from Sanji? Jack is an extremely durable opponent while Sanji and durable cannot go into the same sentence. Usopp's Alabasta fight shows more durability than anything Sanji ever did.

    As much as you want it, Sanji is not ready for a fight of such caliber and Jack is a very bad matchup for him. He may shine against someone who's a level under Calamities and uses no sharp weapons. Vergo could have been a good matchup for Sanji to improve him but it didnt happen aside from small clash which didnt really look like Sanji has an upper hand and you want to put Sanji vs someone who is above Doflamingo and is a sword user.
    Raid suit will improve Sanji's capabilities for sure but i bet it wont make him go from zero to hero. The only opponent i can think of that would fit Sanji could be Scratchman Apoo but even he had some cutting techniques. However, if he figures how to avoid that it could be a good fight and clash of punches and kicks. That's more than big enough of a bite for Sanji.
     
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  4. King Moe

    King Moe Registered User

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    It's not impossible fight and coming from the guy who a true 'hype man' of Zoro when so far he hasn't done anything impressive to prove he can take on Jack at all really. Also blades? Your using blades as a weakness for Sanji? That's a weak excuse your using as you act like Sanji never fought anyone with swords or blades before. He took on Daifuku with his spear blade and still hold his own. Saying he need weapons to defeat him is dumb logic your putting there as it won't affect things in the slightest.

    Also you said that and you mention Zoro being able to have better odds when the man got hurt by Hawkins who was just Supernova and wasn't even one of the top tier fighters of the Beast Pirates. Your overhyping Zoro a bit much on thinking he has more of a chance after early in the chapter. Also durability is a problem with Sanji? The man who took 1 billion bolts of electricity of Enel and still standing for awhile, the man who kept fighting Vergo through a fractured leg and even ran with that same leg afterwards? The man who took an explosions (Though Nami was in his body at the time) and still stood up afterwards with Nami complimenting how tough his body is? Sanji also was with Zoro in withstanding Kuma's Urusa Shock too and he has shown more durability when protecting Luffy from attacks during Big Mom pirates came attacking them. Usopp has not shown any durbality to surpassed Sanji and Sanji has stronger body than anyone give credit for. You need reread the series if you think Sanji is 'fragile'. Your letting your biased get the best of you on this.

    Nah, Sanji is ready as like I said or better yet Rayleigh said, Haki evolve if your push in tougher situations to evolve it. It happens to everyone and thus Sanji and Zoro are capable of it and they can do the same thing as Luffy if they are push to the limits. You got learn to understand the series more than you know and again by your Logic, we haven't seen Zoro have a serious opponent and when he does, it turn against him as he got slammed hard by Fujitora, couldn't even cut Doflamingo's strings, got put to sleep (literally) by Yeti Brothers, and now recently took worse clash from Hawkins that left him bleeding and don't say "He need to do it to tank for Luffy and O-tama" as it doesn't justify Zoro has Haki. He can predict the nails and block them all or use Armament to cover his body to prevent damage. Make no sense on him taking damage on this subject and your saying Zoro has more chance to take on Jack than Sanji lately? Highly unlikely as he seems to be worse off atm than him on facing serious opponents. At least Sanji hold his on with Semi-Commander guys like Daifuku and Oven and he wasn't even trying. That give more glimpse on what type of character he can face down the line on this.

    You got stop undermining Sanji just based on clashes when there are reasonable explanations and him was clearly holding back and wasn't looking for a fight. Listen I understand how Sanji been on fights lately, but guys like you over exaggerate on the subject too much thinking Sanji is done being stronger when he hasn't even shown much of his power as much as Zoro and has a Raid Suit to boot. If you think Sanji is incapable of performing more, your going to be surprise at it since your aiming at the wrong areas and poor false facts about him being 'afraid' with swords when we seen him defeat multiple people with blades before.

    That like saying Luffy will lose to someone with blades since rubber can but cut, but he has shown he overcome that and never been a weakness to him especially when fighting with Zoro before in the past. So yeah, please try not to undermine characters and push Zoro to the moon while he has not have a 'stellar' performance lately in fighting serious opponents either. Just saying to you, not trying to hate or anything.
     
  5. Pro Ban Corps

    Pro Ban Corps Registered User

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    First of all Jimbe did block the attack from big mom with his hardening, and they are worlds apart from what we know and can see. weapon or not, we've already seen sanji stop an edged weapon vs Judge with his leg. Sure Judge is weak, but the only loss he really took was vs Big mom so cant really quantify where he stands atm.
    Also you say sanji isnt ready for a commander fight yet, but was luffy ready for both that he won? No he wasnt. He took an ass whooping for the most of the fight so you seem to be arguing for arguing sake. Once again youre quick to bring up the vergo situation, but didnt katakuri puncture luffy's stomach? Technically luffy shouldnt have been able to breathe, but he still won. And in the fight vs vergo, if you actually read properly, you'll see that after the crack on sanji's shin, no otherattacks landed and sanji kept up with the attacks after, until vergo dipped(left).
    You're now even being more ridiculous by saying scratchmanapoo has cutting edge technique when weve only seen him fight twice. Come on man, theres a level of trolling i can tolerate. Yeah he's strong, but barely any feat.

    PS: Admins, I tried to stay out of the argument, the ridiculousness just got to me, but feel free to move this post.
     
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  6. nik87

    nik87 Registered User

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    @King Moe This gave me a good laugh. If you are serious at comparing Zoro's and Sanji's durability then you are fanboying over Sanji way too much. Also, please, dont twist my words to fit your argument. I am a Zoro fan but i intend to be objective about it as much as possible. Nowhere have i pushed Zoro to the moon like you present it nor have i said that Sanji is afraid of swords. If you are using Sanji and Zoro fights as Sanji's feats of dealing with swords i have to disappoint you, those are gag moments not Sanji's feats.

    Let's take a look at the history of Sanji's fights so we don't "undermine Sanji" as you say it. Sanji vs Pearl, Sanji vs Gin, Sanji vs Kuroobi, Sanji vs mr 13, Sanji vs mr2, Sanji vs Satori, Sanji vs Wanze, Sanji vs Jabra, Sanji vs Absalom and Sanji vs Wadatsumi. Those were his fights.
    He had small clashes with Enel, Vergo, Doflamingo, Daifuku and Oven and notice that he hit Oven while Oven wasnt in a fight with him, same as with that clash with Daifuku. Daifuku was trying to hit Carrot and Sanji only managed to block his one hit. Thats all you got to base Sanji abilities on. You are making a big deal out of nothing, same as you make big deal of the nails. Considering what kind of injuries Zoro handled in the past i wonder what are you even trying to accomplish by using the nails as your argument, lol.

    So, all those opponents in Sanji past, lets see how many were worthy opponents and how many were fodder. Worthy opponents were Gin, Mr2 and Jabra and serious fight only happened with Mr2 and Jabra. Out of all those opponents, who was using a sharp weapon? Nobody. He showed some endurance by clashing legs with Mr2 and he tanked few hits against Jabra. Thats the legendary endurance of Sanji.

    Well, are you trying to say that Sanji is anywhere close to Luffy? Luffy isnt ready for such fight and he has a rubber body to handle the damage better and far superior CoA to Sanji's and ppl still think that Sanji has even a chance against 1Bil commander/calamity level...

    Even if Jack wasnt using sharp weapons i would give Sanji no chance and since his weapons are there he's completely outmatched.
    Zoro is a far better match for Jack since he is a swordsman as well and can block Jack's swords while Sanji would lose his legs if he were to try blocking them.
    Even tho Zoro is a better matchup i am sure he would have plenty of struggle against an opponent worth 1 Billion.
     
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  7. Pro Ban Corps

    Pro Ban Corps Registered User

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    If i wanted to say that, I will spell it out for you. I spoke from what was said in the manga, Haki blossoms when pressed. Sanji could blossom in his fight vs Jack. He could already have hardening and not have used it. Jimbei didnt use hardening until he absolutely needed it.
    Although, Going by heirachy of strength in the manga, I'd say Jimbei has a better chance of defeating Jack over zoro and zoro has a higher chance over sanji. But nothing Stops sanji from actually defeating Jack is my point. It will be a hard earned win for sanji but the sword reasons you gave sound dumb af, when we've seen him block A spear with his foot.
     
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  8. Lexusflame

    Lexusflame Registered User

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    There are many reasons why you can say Jack and Sanj9 is not a suitable match up, " Because Jack uses swords" is not one of them.

    Sanji has been shown multiple times in New World that he is fully capable of fighting opponents with sharp weapons.

    Judge, Oven, Daifuku, Raisin all had sharp weapons and he wasn't soundly defeated by any of them.

    Throwing Scratchman Apoo's name in as an opponent is so random, it borders ridiculous. We know next to nothing about him.

    I personally think your overestimating Zoro and underestimating Sanji

    @Pro Ban Corps, well said
     
  9. nik87

    nik87 Registered User

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    Sanji's fans are the worst lol.
    And what do you actually expect if his CoA blossoms in the fight? Luffy has far superior CoA which i dont expect Sanji to reach and he cant afford to tank hits of sharp weapons. Do you really believe Sanji would be able to tank sword hits from someone like Jack or you are trolling me?
    Luffy was cut by Cracker and avoided every sword attack, he was pierced by Katakuri's spear and also avoided each spear attack other than that one which landed. If Luffy cannot tank such attacks then sure as hell Sanji cant either, no matter how much you want to hype Sanji up.

    I disagree that Jinbe has better chances against swordsman than Zoro. Jinbe was cut by both Mihawk and weakened Big Mom. He didnt show anything that he can handle a swordsman.
    Everything stops Sanji from defeating Jack and blocking a spear which was intended for Carrot is ridiculous but Sanji fans gotta grab such straws.

    Calamity is enough reason for Sanji to stay out of such fight and Calamity swordsman is even bigger reason to keep Sanji away from Jack. @Lexusflame
    Judge and Raisin are fodder, why are you even comparing those to someone like Jack? Oven didnt fight Sanji, Daifuku rekted Sanji in first clash and when Sanji blocked his spear he was attacking Carrot. Ridiculous.
    Scratchmen Apoo sounds better since he is Supernova which should be weaker than Calamity, didnt seem to use any weapons and probably fights with his hands mainly. Has a strange DF which managed to cut Kizaru but we dont know how it works. I would still give him better chances against Apoo than against Jack.

    Where have i overestimated Zoro? I am definitely not underestimating Sanji. Sanji's captain, Luffy, whom i consider worlds apart from Sanji in terms of combat abilities, is barely able to handle such opponents and suddenly fanboys think Sanji is there as well, that he could do it.
    What actually can Sanji do against Jack when you think about it? Let's take speed for example, Cat and Dog were faster and didnt do them any good. They were able to dodge Jack's attacks but what good is that from someone who has better durability? Lets take power and lets push Sanji and say that his offensive is better than those from Cat and Dog but is it actually? Cat and Dogs attacks didnt do anything to Jack for 5 days. Also, lets remember that power level of Cat and Dog is above Supernovas, since Bege ran away from such a fight and considered Cat a monster. What can Sanji actually do to Jack?
    If raid suit is what makes him possible to beat Jack then it has to give him insane power to actually hurt and take Jack out, without it he has no feats capable of defeating a Calamity. I am not underestimating Sanji, he simply has nothing to deal with Jack.

    @hokageji All Strawhats are considered saviours of Zou. I would love if Sanji was able to take on Jack but imo he has nothing to stand up to Jack since thats a tier which is giving Luffy serious problems. There are more people who could take on Calamities instead of Sanji. Luffy, Law, Zoro, Marco if he joins, Cat/Dog in Sulong form. My bet is either a Supernova or a tier under Calamities will be Sanjis opponent.
     
  10. King Moe

    King Moe Registered User

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    Dude, it's not be overhyping Sanji in the slightest. Zoro and Sanji are quite comparable with Durability and I will say Zoro a bit more than Sanji, but if your really saying there is a huge difference, your overhyping Zoro too much as they aren't far apart as you think they are. Your not doing a good job, Nik87 on being fair as I am not the other one talking against you on this. Your letting your fanboyism to get to you more than mine and I actually enjoy both characters. You just said He has more chance to face Jack despite the fact the logic your putting down on Sanji works for him too. Cause does it make sense for a man who got puncture by nails of a Supernova and needed medical treatment to fight guy with beyond durability of taking a 1000 years old, Gigantic Elephant Trunk, one of the strongest part of a elephant in real life to be hit and survive with no trouble much on injuries as he was still conscious? Your contradicting yourself in that logic and yeah Sanji vs Zoro interacts count as they are not just for funny moments, it's fact as they do fight to hurt each other time to time, but not kill each other.

    So you want to do fights, huh? Alright then let's quote Zoro on that after his defeat from Mihawk he said "I Will Never Lose Again!" and guess who he lost to afterwards? Buggy (Though before this was before his famous quote, I won't try to count him), Mihawk, Arlong, Mr.3 and Barqoue Works, Enel, Foxy Pirates (In certain events), Kaku and Lucci (separately), Thriller Bark pirates/creatures, Ooz, and Moira (As he was taken and Shadow stolen by Moira), Kuma, Pacifista and Kuma again. Now post-timeskip, he lost to Hody and his men (While true he was able to slice him, he was still conscious and his men capture him), Yeti Brothers, Fujitroa (Fight went unfinished, but Fujitora was barely trying and Zoro bleed out of the fight), couldn't cut Doflamingo's strings, and now Hawkins with more advantage with their fight and made him bleed again. Your making a big deal about Zoro when he has many loses and haven't shown to be above as you think as you letting fanboyism affect you so badly your missing the truth around.

    Sanji has prove his worth with his opponents and those situations have their reasons and issues on why they went the way they were. Sanji only legit lost I know is Doflamingo and the others are clashes and victories for him. Also yeah I am using it as your using the leg thing and blades despite Sanji is more durable as shown. Where your getting at he is 'fragile' when the man shown especially last arc he took so much physical hit, but still going strong. Your really undermining Sanji, but not surprise as your a Zoro fan and enjoy pushing Zoro to the damn moon as always.

    Same with Zoro as what happened to him lately that he hasn't taken on serious opponents anymore and damn nails are affecting him? He is nothing like Zoro of Enies Lobby and need more feats on taking stronger opponents too which he hasn't for a long time. Sanji has shown to be holding back his power and haven't even shown his full kicking techniques at all along with showing more Haki and Raid Suit. If you think Sanji won't get stronger, your at the deep end and stretching too much lol. Why you think everyone is countering your statements lol, thanks for the laugh man, but learn to be unbiased man. Really we can see your fanboyism.
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 14, 2018 at 9:55 PM, Original Post Date: Sep 14, 2018 at 9:50 PM ---
    We don't see Zoro taking on Jack either as he hasn't shown anything to beyond Jack or even take him at all. Also your missing the crucial point I am telling you that Haki evolve with tougher fights if Sanji and Zoro have more tougher fights, they get stronger. Rayleigh just explain this chapters ago and your making it seems Sanji is at his limit when Zoro isn't. Your not doing a good job on being fair really. So now then if your going to be like that then Zoro taking on Yonkos is far out of it too and his best luck after Hawkins situation is just facing Headliners alone too. So to stop the debate until further notice, Zoro and Sanji will be keep respectively and keep hype at a same lvl after their last interactions in fights and so far Sanji show more effort compare to Zoro in his fight with Hawkins, so it's unknown right now if they can take on Calamities until further notice show Oda putting them too.
     
  11. hokageji

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    Comeon, even if Apoo is super duper strong, his matchup with Sanji is not logical at all... How would that even be an entertaining match? I

    Things about Apoo:
    He's like a DJ
    has a musical ability that he uses in battle
    belongs to the longarm tribe

    What part of Sanji fits that? If you are looking for a suitable opponent to Apoo, it gotta be the MVP of whole cake island... Soul King Brook...
    DJ vs Soul King
    Musical notes vs musical notes
    Soul King spent two years with members of the longarm tribe.

    I will give it to you that Sheepshead is weak, i agree with that. But even if you consider the strongest possible headliners, like Hawkins or Drake, the matchup against Sanji makes no sense...

    I am not saying Sanji is destined to fight Jack, but i definitely entertain the idea of it far more than Zoro... And that has nothing to do with being or not being a Sanji fanboy, it just fits the narrative better than Zoro.... When we are literally in an island filled with Samurais, you cannot say Zoro is not gonna wanna fight the strongest samurai around.. We dont know who it is, but we do know its not Jack.
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 14, 2018 at 11:57 PM, Original Post Date: Sep 14, 2018 at 11:55 PM ---
    i guess anything beyond is subjective and as long as that's understood, we are good....
     
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  12. jaymizzo

    jaymizzo Registered User

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    Did Sanji appear in the chapter?

    @nik87 No, no one knows that Zoro is far above Sanji in terms of durability. You have literally nothing to base that on. Both you and @King Moe are just stating opinions and trying to pass them off as facts.

    @nik87 At the risk of fueling your need to discuss Katakuri... What point is it to bring up Luffy Vs Katakuri when we know Luffy grew stronger during and as a result of the fight. You have absolutely no basis to even suggest that Zoro could be a good match for a Commander. One could argue for Luffy but not Zoro. Zoro being a swordsman does not mean he is a good match up for a Yonkou commander simply because he has a sword. You're forgetting that not only does he has a sword/swords... He also has a DF that could easily be counted as an advantage over Zoro.

    So Sanji and Zoro at this point will fare just as equally against Jack, unless shown otherwise. Any tipping towards one side is simply down to favouritism. Could make a case for Luffy beating Jack but anyone else is just pure speculation.

    And your statement about the strings... Are you saying that Zoro simply did not want to cut the strings that we causing so much damage? Asking someone to provide proof that Zoro could not cut the strings... When he wasn't cutting them is quite peculiar.
     
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  13. kcd

    kcd Registered User

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    I understand the frustration because logic is mostly thrown out the window when it concerns Sanji. The fact that Oda decided to power him up with a raid-suit says it all, which is, If he was already as strong as people are making him out to be, then what’s the point of giving him raid suit in the first place. I wonder.
    Maybe it’s because his 'character' needed something to make him stronger real quick?

    However, having said that, I'm looking at it in a different light. If you would follow my line of reasoning, perhaps you might see it differently too.

    Back then when Sanji was a kid, he was considered a failure by his family. But after several years with further G66 advancement in science and technology, there’s no way that Judge haven’t discovered a means of awakening (or partially awakening) sanji's dormant genes.

    I believe with the aid of the raid suit (which was specifically made for him), his recessive genes can become dominant, and his skin can naturally become stronger than iron. It'll be so strong that you would need special bullets travelling at really high speed to be able to penetrate his skin (as was shown/elaborated in wholecake).

    That’s a really big/relevant power up IMO.

    I guess what I’m getting at is that, his durability will increase by a lot. He won’t also be needing blades or weapons when fighting...because his skin would be naturally harder than weapons, be it swords or guns.
    Now, add what ever little armament he’s shown so far to his iron skin, and you’ll see that he may just be able to hold his own against Jack.

    When facing guys like Jack, other than resilience, it’s your destructive power that counts/matters. You simply have to hit him so hard that it knocks him out or straight up kills them, in order for you to come out the victor. That's the only way other than using underhanded tactics.

    Sanji, other than increase in durability, with the aid of the raid suit ofcourse, can also have his element (flames) ability exaggerated as well, for plot purposes, if such battle were to take place.

    In conclusion:

    Prior raid suit, I think it would be extremely difficult (almost impossible) for sanji to come out victorious as you said, But with the raid suit, it's a whole new game, filled with unknowns that can make him Jack's rival...and that's all subjective if we look at how his brothers (with raid suit) dominated Oven Charlotte prior the special bullets that was effective.
    I guess this is my two cents on the matter.
     
  14. King Moe

    King Moe Registered User

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    Sanji thought won't always rely on the Raid 24/7 to fight like Zoro need his swords 24/7 to fight. There is a difference. Sanji is still capable with or without his suit, but you can't say much on Zoro's part if he loses his sword. Sanji fans have been fine and we are hyping him in logical territory, but with Zoro people overhype him way too much to the point they think he can easily one K.O a character just because he can 'cut'. Remember when this talk was filled with Zoro saying he will easily beat Hawkins in the first encounter? Look what happened after next chapter. Zoro got more damage than him and we are just trying to keep all hype lvls accurate, but not too the moon of both characters.

    We aren't saying Sanji will have a easy time with Jack, but if you guys follow the story than fights, it make sense why Jack would face Sanji more than others since Jack probably knows him by name and due to Sanji saving others in Zou and with Pedro's death and flashback about 'keeping the leaders of Zou alive' it continue to hints that Sanji vs Jack is plausible to happen out through the course.

    Also I do agree with your point on dormant genes and Raid Suit as my theory is that after Sanji puts on the Raid Suit, the genes are awaken through his bloodstream and he become stronger with his power he already has. Thus with and without the suit, his abilities and strength increase and also can't forget Rayleigh's talk about Haki that the tougher your opponent, the stronger your Haki awakens. Sanji vs Jack will be a good fight to push Sanji to his limits to get stronger out of it. I don't get why you guys don't want to see that as your the ones saying he 'should improve' and we telling you how he can through fighting someone as tough as Jack since Luffy evolved by fighting someone as tough as Katakuri.
     
  15. nik87

    nik87 Registered User

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    @hokageji Well, of all the opponents i can think of that are present in Wano, Apoo sounds like the least trouble for Sanji and still would be the hardest battle Sanji had so far. Apoo is supernova after all, thats still a tier above Sanji. I dont picture him having better chances against Hawkins or Drake, not to mention Calamities.
    Yes, Brook may be a better matchup but imo Apoo is a bite way too big for Brook to handle.

    @jaymizzo well, if you as well dont think that Zoros durability is way above Sanji then i wonder if we are reading the same stuff. There is so much evidence of that that im surprised ppl actually doubting this.

    Swordsman is better matchup against swordsman than Sanji, even arguably better than Luffy based on his struggle against Crackers swordplay.
    Jacks df looked more like disadvantage in fight with cat and dog.
    Yes i am saying Zoro didnt try to cut the strings, only to stop/push them back.

    People want Sanji to jump from Vergos level, skipping supernova and shichibukai level, right at Calamity/commander level. Sorry guys, i cant be convinced into believing such a thing.
     
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  16. kcd

    kcd Registered User

    上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member

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    I get what you mean here. Personally I want all the strawhats to improve. I don't mind if sanji takes on Jack. As a matter of fact, that's exactly what I want, but I'm keeping my expectations low so as not to be disappointed if it doesn't happen.

    I think Oda gave him the suit for a reason, and that is because he wants him to be on that other level asap IMO. That's not to say he won't get to that level on his own as you said, but that it would/might take longer if we follow due process.

    There's nothing concrete now, we'll have to wait and see how things develop, especially who will fight whom.
     
  17. McNuss

    McNuss Registered User

    英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member

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    Kidd's character arc is that he went way over his head. You can't just run around murdering people shouting "I'm gonna be pirate king". People like that don't inspire loyalty unless they have the strenght to back it up, so it's natural that Kidd's alliance partners have submitted to Kaido. He definitely didn't made the biggest waves, he is actually the first Worst Gen member to drop out. He will get his redemption as a Luffy loyalist for sure though.
    Yup, twisted with the mongol invasion from the middle ages, except that in this scenario the mongols were successful. Plus environmental pollution which is an issue of modern Japan. So yeah, Oda already went full-scale through japanese history, but I bet we will get even more.

    Anyone knows what's up with that floating building?
    I agree with most of what you said except that I think you greatly underestimate the Supernova. Hawkins and Apoo have very tricky Devil Fruits, like Law. We know Law isn't as good as Luffy in close quarter combat, but if you look away just once he does crazy things with you like shredding your organs. Hawkins and Apoo might have their own equivalents for Gamma Knife. Drake was hinted to have remarkable strenght even as a kid, and Urouge defeated a Sweet Commander, albeit the weakest one. Bege is likely one of the weakest of them, because his strenght depends on the people inside him. He still has a remarkable feat, since his trump card could actually tank a Yonko for some time.

    I don't see Sanji beating Scratchmen Apoo.

    I might be totally wrong about the Supernova though because we haven't seen much of them, let alone post-timeskip. Hawkins didn't impress me much in his little fight with Luffy and Zoro, but he might be the trickiest besides Law.

    Also I think Sanji definitely can't defeat a Calamity, but he can contribute in the battle with one for the same reason Crocodile can clash with Mihawk, which is experience or competency. Sanji lacks strenght but he is fairly competent, having good CoO and movement. All Straw Hats passed the point of getting the trash treatment, as long as they are in a group with a powerhouse. Nami, Chopper and Brook performed incredibly vs Big Mom and Jinbei made sure they didn't die.
     
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  18. nik87

    nik87 Registered User

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    @McNuss It may have seemed that way but no, idont underestimate Supernovas, i am with u on that. I just picked a lesser evil for Sanji to fight, hes outmatched against Supernovas bit better to put him against them than against Calamity. I also said fight vs Apoo would be the hardest so far for Sanji.

    People just dont think ahead when it comes to such matchups, they dont think whats next. Where is Sanji going if he beats Calamity, is he going to be yonko level next? Its just ridiculous, time will tell.
     
  19. King Moe

    King Moe Registered User

    上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member

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    Since you and McNuss think that way then Zoro probably in the same boat as he got injured by Hawkins being a Supernova, so no reason we should see Zoro being able to fight off a Calamity and then face the Shogun. If you want to keep it fair with Sanji, got toned down overhype fans try with Zoro too much.
     
  20. Shasha23

    Shasha23 Registered User

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    Except the manga back up my point, there have been several characters who have stated on many accounts that Teach, Drake and Kidd were the top among the worst generations since they made the biggest moves.
    Do you think Dressrosa level Luffy, Law and Zoro would have beat Kiado? he would have owned them the same as he did Kidd, Killer, Hawkin and Apoo.
    If yoiu go re-read the manga you will know that Oda implied Teach, Drake and Kidd made the biggest moves
     
  21. iseedumbpeople

    iseedumbpeople Registered User

    初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner

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    Well you cant blame @King Moe . I see at least 3 Sanjis in every one of his posts. He likes Sanji so even if sanji does not show up for 100 chapters he still wants to talk about him. Lets leave him be.

    Also @nik87 Zoro has much more durability than Sanji please re-read thriller bark. Extract each and every panel zoro and sanji took dmg. Compare them and compare at what point they lose consciousness and you will see.

    Btw lets not go off topic, this panel is about chapter 917. Lets talk about it. For example why have I NOT seen any comment on Luffy&Zoro rescue resembles very very much to the Rayleigh rescue Caimie from that celestial dragon girl on Sabondy? If you compare panels, they look much alike. They look like they used kings haki there. No1 talks about it though, strange if you ask me.

    Cheers
     
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