One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Nie Li]

IMO it’s because Shanks has top tier swordsmanship that has droppped because he only has 1 arm. But I’m sticking to Shanks having high Martial Arts prowess as to how he he’s gotten stronger and attained a spot amongst the Yonkou.

To me, a character who fights "with martial arts + a sword" is just a swordsman. Swordsmanship is a martial art after all. Same thing for haki; haki in the One Piece world is implemented into swordsmanship as part of it. Which is why I consider Shanks and Rayleigh as the two examples of great swordsmen with feats in the manga, other than Oden.

Yet again, this is my personal interpretation and not something I'd like to argue over if others disagree with it.

 

[XXGenesis]

To me, a character who fights "with martial arts + a sword" is just a swordsman.

Swordsmanship is a martial art after all. Same thing for haki; haki in the One Piece world is implemented into swordsmanship as part of it.

Which is why I consider Shanks and Rayleigh as the two examples of great swordsmen with feats in the manga, other than Oden.

Agreed

True, it is an armed Martial arts.

Why compare them to Oden? Wasn’t Oden combat style pure Swordsman? In terms of feats..Can’t rlly recall Sword feats from them.

Roger, Rayleigh, Shanks, Possibly Admirals like Kizaru & Fujitora. Imo are all Great Swordsman. Who also excell just as much or evenly in Un-armed martial arts

 

[LadyVados]

Agreed

True, it is an armed Martial arts.

Why compare them to Oden? Wasn’t Oden combat style pure Swordsman? In terms of feats..Can’t rlly recall Sword feats from them.

Roger, Rayleigh, Shanks, Possibly Admirals like Kizaru & Fujitora. Imo are all Great Swordsman. Who also excell just as much or evenly in Un-armed martial arts

Oden has more swordless feats than Shanks... just saying. In fact Zoro has more swordless feats than Shanks... and Roger for that matter !

Shanks also has one arm so while he’s holding a sword his only other option is kicking which I just don’t see and even then Kaku and King are swordsmen.

 

[Nie Li]

Agreed

True, it is an armed Martial arts.

Why compare them to Oden? Wasn’t Oden combat style pure Swordsman? In terms of feats..Can’t rlly recall Sword feats from them.

Roger, Rayleigh, Shanks, Possibly Admirals like Kizaru & Fujitora. Imo are all Great Swordsman. Who also excell just as much or evenly in Un-armed martial arts

Rayleigh has the feat of slashing an admiral's (the fastest admiral) cheek and then keeping up with him in a fight despite his old age. And this was with Kizaru actually trying to go for the Strawhats but entirely immobilized by Rayleigh's fight.

Shanks has the feat of cutting the sky in two after slashing swords, which could be attributed to CoC but happened as a result of clashing blades. That + stopping Akainu with his sword effortlessly (and with only one arm. Obvious for him, yeah, but it's also impressive).

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 26, 2020 ---

Oden has more swordless feats than Shanks... just saying. In fact Zoro has more swordless feats than Shanks... and Roger for that matter !

Shanks also has one arm so while he’s holding a sword his only other option is kicking which I just don’t see and even then Kaku and King are swordsmen.

Kaku is an excellent point. He used a named martial art, rokushiki, in tandem with his swordsmanship, yet in Zoro's eyes he was only a swordsman and they even went and labelled his style "yontoryu", as if Kaku having rankyaku didn't take anything from him being "a swordsman".

 

[Pirate Queen]

Alternatively BM uses a sword, but mainly empowered by her Devil Fruit and she isn't considered a swordsman.

 

[Nie Li]

Alternatively BM uses a sword, but mainly empowered by her Devil Fruit and she isn't considered a swordsman.

And I actually agree on that, though she is a swordsman (swordswoman?) her DF and passive haki barrier makes her a case of her own.

Taking into account what I think of Mihawk and Shanks, my belief is that, if there are no weapons involved, Big Mom would beat Mihawk, Rayleigh and Shanks. However, I'm on the fence about how she compares to Mihawk if Mihawk has his sword. Prometheus doesn't seem worse than the Boro Breath and a swordsman with much smaller feats than Mihawk (other than piercing Kaido, which wasn't a big deal for Kaido himself) cut through it, while Brook cut Zeus and neutralized it. I thought that was only thanks to Brook's own DF, but Marco also neutralized prometheus and made it go "x_x" despite having no control over souls. I personally expect Mihawk to be able to cut at least like Oden did, so I expect him to be able to pierce Big Mom.

Still, I'm on the fence, because it is true that Big Mom is more than "just" a swordsman, but I think there're possibilities for Mihawk to have the means and skills to defeat her through his swordsmanship alone.

I'm only theorising here.

 

[LadyVados]

And I actually agree on that, though she is a swordsman (swordswoman?) her DF and passive haki barrier makes her a case of her own.

Taking into account what I think of Mihawk and Shanks, my belief is that, if there are no weapons involved, Big Mom would beat Mihawk, Rayleigh and Shanks. However, I'm on the fence about how she compares to Mihawk if Mihawk has his sword. Prometheus doesn't seem worse than the Boro Breath and a swordsman with much smaller feats than Mihawk (other than piercing Kaido, which wasn't a big deal for Kaido himself) cut through it, while Brook cut Zeus and neutralized it. I thought that was only thanks to Brook's own DF, but Marco also neutralized prometheus and made it go "x_x" despite having no control over souls. I personally expect Mihawk to be able to cut at least like Oden did, so I expect him to be able to pierce Big Mom.

Still, I'm on the fence, because it is true that Big Mom is more than "just" a swordsman, but I think there're possibilities for Mihawk to have the means and skills to defeat her through his swordsmanship alone.

I'm only theorising here.

I still think BM's main weapon is her sword, more than anything else. Also it would kind of mess up Kuina's story arc about how her father said a woman can't be WSS and she would be the one to prove him wrong if Big Mom was stronger than Mihawk the whole time.

So, Mihawk > BM for me. And I just can't see Kaido being 2 orders of > above BM based on portrayal and statements and feats so that is why I think Mihawk is equal to if not stronger than Kaido, he is objectively stronger than 'another kaido'.

 

[M3J]

Two possibilities in my opinion.

1: Mihawk believed WB's strength was greater than his own and didn't see a point in fighting him. Per his own words at Marineford, he felt that WB strength at that time was closer to everyone else's than it should have been, meaning that he noticed right away he was sick.

2: Mihawk didn't want to risk facing off an entire Yonkou crew just for the slight chance to face off against WB. The only Yonkou he seems fine with approaching directly is Shanks and that's because they are friends.

1. Figured.

2. COuld have had the Marines to help him fight WB, or if he's that strong then the crew shouldn't have really bothered him much.

Either way, I'm countering LordWhis's claim that Mihawk is equal to an Emperor.

 

[Nie Li]

I still think BM's main weapon is her sword, more than anything else. Also it would kind of mess up Kuina's story arc about how her father said a woman can't be WSS and she would be the one to prove him wrong if Big Mom was stronger than Mihawk the whole time.

So, Mihawk > BM for me. And I just can't see Kaido being 2 orders of > above BM based on portrayal and statements and feats so that is why I think Mihawk is equal to if not stronger than Kaido, he is objectively stronger than 'another kaido'.

The whole deal about "Kuina can't be a swordsman when she grows up because she's a woman" is bullshit whether BM is stronger or not.

 

[LadyVados]

The whole deal about "Kuina can't be a swordsman when she grows up because she's a woman" is bullshit whether BM is stronger or not.

The implication was that Kuina would have become the first woman WSS (at least in recent times), and Big Mom being stronger sort of destroys her character and downplays her struggle in a way. If Big Mom was always stronger than Mihawk then Kuina's whole struggle doesn't matter, if that makes sense.

Kuina worked her ass off to try and become the strongest, if BM with no formal training was automatically the strongest swordfighter in the world then that destroys Kuina's whole character arc.

If there is a woman swordfighter walking around who could beat Mihawk or anyone else on earth for that matter (and just doesn't care about the WSS title, and could take it if she wants to, like some speculate) then it sort of ruins Zoro and Kuina's whole character arc and storyline.

 

[Nie Li]

The implication was that Kuina would have become the first woman WSS (at least in recent times), and Big Mom being stronger sort of destroys her character and downplays her struggle in a way. If Big Mom was always stronger than Mihawk then Kuina's whole struggle doesn't matter, if that makes sense.

To me her struggle was far more simple and looked more like she wouldn't have been able to be a swordsman at all, not just WSS, just because she was a woman. The WSS was brought in more as a personal challenge between Zoro and her.

I always saw her struggle as something a bit like real world "machismo", with perhaps some biological implications (she talks about how "her breasts would be growing soon as she gets older" in the flashback). Not especifically about being WSS.

Tashigi, too, talks similarly to Zoro with an inferiority complex because of her gender, telling him that "you don't kill me because I'm a woman".

Turns out, however, that there are characters like Hancock, Big Mom, Tsuru, Califa, Ulti or the whole Kuja tribe.

 

[XXGenesis]

Oden has more swordless feats than Shanks... just saying. In fact Zoro has more swordless feats than Shanks... and Roger for that matter !

Shanks also has one arm so while he’s holding a sword his only other option is kicking which I just don’t see and even then Kaku and King are swordsmen.

(Nit pick)
how many of these feats does Oden have? Who did he K.O with his fist or feet??
Oden in a fight or battle is using his two sword style. A

Zoro has casually knocked out fodder with a punch, & has shown H2H physicality.

Shanks has little battle screen time. So we’ll just have to wait and see.

Rayleigh has the feat of slashing an admiral's (the fastest admiral) cheek and then keeping up with him in a fight despite his old age. And this was with Kizaru actually trying to go for the Strawhats but entirely immobilized by Rayleigh's fight.

Shanks has the feat of cutting the sky in two after slashing swords, which could be attributed to CoC but happened as a result of clashing blades. That + stopping Akainu with his sword effortlessly (and with only one arm. Obvious for him, yeah, but it's also impressive).

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 26, 2020 ---

Kaku is an excellent point. He used a named martial art, rokushiki, in tandem with his swordsmanship, yet in Zoro's eyes he was only a swordsman and they even went and labelled his style "yontoryu", as if Kaku having rankyaku didn't take anything from him being "a swordsman".

With the Kaku references and semantics sake I will concede. It’s utter semantics. Whether they a pure swordsmans or not.

As for the feats I consider some of them casual, as those characters already had some type of benchmark power level or expectations already. I.E Rayleigh holding off Kizaru in a sword fight and slicing his cheek, the cheek slice is casual imo, the scene is testament to his current strength as were the praise from Kizaru. 2 Yonkou’s splitting the sky, was a big deal at the time, as Roger & WB have created the same feat. & as as Yonkou blocking Akainu is also casual whether he did it with a sword or not

 

[LadyVados]

(Nit pick)
how many of these feats does Oden have? Who did he K.O with his fist or feet??

wet nurse, bear, etc.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 27, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 27, 2020 ---

To me her struggle was far more simple and looked more like she wouldn't have been able to be a swordsman at all, not just WSS, just because she was a woman. The WSS was brought in more as a personal challenge between Zoro and her.

I always saw her struggle as something a bit like real world "machismo", with perhaps some biological implications (she talks about how "her breasts would be growing soon as she gets older" in the flashback). Not especifically about being WSS.

Tashigi, too, talks similarly to Zoro with an inferiority complex because of her gender, telling him that "you don't kill me because I'm a woman".

Turns out, however, that there are characters like Hancock, Big Mom, Tsuru, Califa, Ulti or the whole Kuja tribe.

I definitely think she wanted to be WSS too, she overhears Kyoushiro and his friends talking about how she had no chance of becoming WSS and that’s what caused her to duel Zoro that night.

After her death, even Kyoushiro seems to regret his earlier thoughts and talks about her becoming WSS.

Even before their promise they both seemed to want to become the strongest.

 

[albertwv]

Kuina's tragic story goal of being the WSS is why Big Mom CANT be stronger than Mihawk??? Are you seriously considering to use this as proof of why Mihawk > Kaido > BM? How low will you go!!!?
How can anyone take you seriously after this? Can I block him is there a way to block Whis off this thread.

 

[Nie Li]

Kuina's tragic story goal of being the WSS is why Big Mom CANT be stronger than Mihawk??? Are you seriously considering to use this as proof of why Mihawk > Kaido > BM? How low will you go!!!?
How can anyone take you seriously after this? Can I block him is there a way to block Whis off this thread.

If you want to "block" somebody you can open their profiles and click on Ignore, but it's not thread specific.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

New chapter zoro calls kaido the strongest in the world
Impressive q
Guess that's the end of that debate
Kaido is the number 1 in the world

 

[AmitDS]

Kaido is the strongest pirate lol but he tied with Big Mom when they fought for days. Meanwhile Whitebeard was the strongest man when he was drawing with Roger. I am so confused about when titles count and don't count in the Western fandom. I'll just sit back and wait until Big Mom, Shanks and/or Mihawk throw a wrench in this as is always the case when these titles are clung on to.

 

[LaGOAT]

I don’t wanna hear no more excuse zoro is the zoro had jump to 5th strongest Supernova

 

[LadyVados]

‘Known as’

 

[I Am Atomic]

'Known as’

Something no one has said about Mihawk