One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[TitaniumOxide]

It's true. Katakuri got endurance. He got the coo. We honestly do not know what types of Haki mastery Jack has, we only know he uses it. But at the moment given the hypothetical situation, if Jack cannot land a hit, he cannot win. However, if he can produce so kuch damage that his hits can create an area of effect or some kind of splash damage, Katakuri can be hit if he cannot evade the span of destruction. Like yeah Katakuri can be like oh shit the Enola Gay is flying above, in 30 seconds Nagasaki will get Murica-ed. Can he run from that? Nope, even if he can foresee it. I'm not saying Jack is a nuke lol but I mean he isn't a calamity if he cannot cause crazy damage to stuff in one hit. Or nevermind one hit. They are called calamities becausr after they come through, it is like your area got hit by a disaster. If he is Jack the Drought, will another one gonna be called King the Hurricane? Seems like aspects of a "dragon" since dragons brings different weather patterns. So I want to to put it in another perspective...these "calamities" are powerful because...how many people can fight a hurricane? A drought? I guess what I am trying to say is we need to see more from Jack still.

That being said...I still think Katakuri will still own Jack in a 1v1. He might even make fun of jack by making a mochi elepant trunk lol..

 

[kcd]

That being said...I still think Katakuri will still own Jack in a 1v1. He might even make fun of jack by making a mochi elepant trunk lol..

Lol, thankyou for this.

Mochi man would make a bigger trunk, look Jack in the eyes, and then ask: "This is how big an elephant trunk should be, Right?" Lol.

I also think that Jack would definitely have a hard time evading peerless donuts attacks. Even a speedster like Luffy couldn't evade everything.

Now if Shutenmaru could slash him open, there's no reason to think that Block mochi Or Diced mochi won't do the same.
My money is definitely on Katakuri.

 

[hokageji]

Luffy takesno damage from hitting walls and the ground it's been established since day 1

Someone posted examples here that Luffy can take physical damage without haki too, i think it was HP. Bascially the point was Rubber doesnt give Luffy 100% immunity against blunt attacks. He can still take damage of feel pain if the attack is of extremely high level, but it will hurt Luffy a lot less because of his DF.
So Luffy can actually take damage by hitting walls and ground if he's thrown or attacked very badly.

The Jack attack was just to hype up Shutenmaru's speed and in general how dangerous the samurais can be. 100 beasts vs Luffy+Law+Samurais to make sense would mean they have a legion of samurais at bay starting with the strongest around which includes shutenmaru.

About Jack vs Katakuri, Katakuri can keep seeing the future but he gonna run out of time eventually... How long did Luffy vs Katakuri last? 9 hours or so? Even less i am sure. Jack can go on for 3 days. The fact that Jack is a zoan gives him higher physical attribute so stamina would be one of those. It will be more of a stalemate.

 

[Pro Ban Corps]

Lol, thankyou for this.

Mochi man would make a bigger trunk, look Jack in the eyes, and then ask: "This is how big an elephant trunk should be, Right?" Lol.

I also think that Jack would definitely have a hard time evading peerless donuts attacks. Even a speedster like Luffy couldn't evade everything.

Now if Shutenmaru could slash him open, there's no reason to think that Block mochi Or Diced mochi won't do the same.
My money is definitely on Katakuri.

From what we know, jack is like kenpachi from bleach... he has not really tried to evade hits or attacks. So you are all just being biased.
But tbh it’s all just opinions not facts

 

[kcd]

From what we know, jack is like kenpachi from bleach... he has not really tried to evade hits or attacks. So you are all just being biased.
But tbh it’s all just opinions not facts

But how am I being biased? Other than having quick reflex, Luffy's fruit gives him a special advantage. That's why he was still able to evade Katakuri's attacks, even after Katakuri correctly guesses the direction Luffy would evade to, he still evades by changing direction.

You think Jack is capable of that?

 

[roggie]

Katakuri is the first commander, way above the others.
I expect Jack to be weaker than the other calamities.
I think it's reasonable to imagine Katakuri is above Jack, given their positions under their leader.
Besides that, Katakuri seems to have the upper hand when it comes to versatility.

Raid Sanji will deal with Jack.

 

[catagon87]

Power levels in One Piece have always been weird.
Luffy defeate Crocodile.
Jinbei and Ace fight 1v1 for days.
Ace damages Blackbeard multiple times in their fight (not badly, but by comparison, Big Mom took a gear 4 attack without losing any composure)
Crocodile holds his own in Marineford, clashing with Doflamingo
Doflamingo felt confident in being able to fight / deal with Fujitora. Doflamingo is at a level where he should be able to sense an opponent's strength (I recall Luffy realized how strong Fujitora was when he was being swindled at the dice game). Similar to Coby recognizing Kyros's strength.
Doflamingo broke out of Aokiji's ice (which we had only seen Whitebeard do until this point. Even a Whitebeard commander got owned by Aokiji's ice attacks).
Aokiji fought Akainu 1v1 for what, 10 days?
Akainu blew half of Whitebeard's face off, and faced down the whole of the Whitebeard pirates without a penchant of fear.
Shanks stopped a full on magma punch from Akainu with a sword-draw.
Kaido is "the strongest creature in the world" but was held up by Shanks during Marineford.
It's obvious that Luffy would not have defeated Doflamingo without Law, and gear 4, however it's also obvious that Katakuri could have defeated Doflamingo, but Luffy was able to defeat Katakuri (yes, he did defeat Katakuri. I still see a few people on here who think that wasn't a win for Luffy. Surprising amount of denial).
Cracker would probably do a lot better again Luffy than Zoro, despite the fact that Zoro is probably not stronger than Luffy.

What I'm getting at is Jack vs Katakuri doesn't hold a lot of meaning in the real world of comparing fighters. We have seen Jack fight Dog and Cat, who we have only seen ever fight Jack. We have no frame of reference for how strong either of them are, except the fact that Bege notably was scared of Neko, and that they fought on par with Jack, and that they were in a stalemate. Not winning or losing.
We see Jack fight Ashura, who we don't know much about. We know Oden defeating him was a big deal, and Oden traveled with Roger and Whitebeard, and that Kinemon described Ashura as worth 100 men (which on Wano, could mean more than 1000 men anywhere else).
We know that they were hesitant to send Kizaru, who we've seen go toe-to-toe with Marco, and Rayleigh, to Wano, because they don't know enough about Samurai.
We know Neko and Inu were around on Wano sometime after Oden defeated Ashura, and that they appeared to be children then, giving us reason to believe that at the time Ashura was stronger than them (since they were being beat up as citizens) and has probably grown over the years.
We've never seen Shutenmaru/Ashura fight anyone other than Jack, but this guy has had 20+ years to build his strength and survive under Kaido and Orochi's rule. We have reason to believe he's fairly strong. We've never seen this guy fight someone like Luffy or Katakuri, so again, Katakuri is completely divergent from this.
We've never seen Luffy fight Shutenmaru. We've never seen Luffy fight Jack. We've never seen Inu or Neko fight anyone other than Jack. We haven't seen Shutenmaru fight anyone other than Jack. So all of the comparisons for or against how strong Jack is or isn't are completely based in fan-fiction / fantasies about fights that have not and never will happen. I suspect he's stronger than we're giving him credit, because while we've seen him struggle in what appears to be speed, we've never seen him knocked out.

 

[nik87]

I think Jack's endurance is overhyped or maybe misunderstood is a better word.
Yes he can last long and i think it last 5 days on Zou. He can last long against an equally strong opponent who doesnt have a way of injuring him significantly. That was the case with Cat and Dog, they simply didnt have offensive abilities strong enough to take Jack out but same applied to Jack, he couldnt take them out either. Also, many say that Cat and Dog took turns to rest and what not, sure thats true but its not like they were out of breath at the end of their 12-hour shift, they only changed because of the night and day system that they had at that time.
Still, its normal to assume that Jack's endurance is better since he fought without break and his fishman half adds to his endurance as well as being a zoan, especially a mammoth.
Still, all his endurance means nothing when an opponent has enough firepower to defeat him and we already saw it twice. He was defeated by Zunisha in a single hit and he was defeated when he attacked Doffy's escort. The surprising thing is the speed of his recovery since it didnt take long for him to wake up after encounter with Zunisha as well as the encounter with Marines.

When it comes to Jack vs Katakuri, i am sure Katakuri would have no trouble of defeating him quite fast. Jack's fighting back chance is 0, same for everyone else who doesnt have the ability to see the future. Katakuri has very destructive attacks, which are strong enough to wreck a rubber man in his strongest gear.

I think only reason why Jack is 1bil worth is because how destructive he is to surroundings and civilians and is more Cracker's level, a strong defense with rather weak offense.

 

[afromarco005]

Lol that is the most stretched explanation to him being immune to damages. You are all over estimating the durability given to Luffy.
Yeah he’s more durable to blunt attacks, but he doesn’t have immunity.

In his fights vs Katakuri, there were attacks that we can’t be certain he used Coa on.
And why did Jinbe fee the need to save him when Katakuri wanted to kick drop him at the party?
He still takes damage, just not as much. Apply any physics/biology to it. When an object impacts something immovable the force reverberates round the objects body, and with energy having no were to go, the body of the object meet the immovable one takes damage.

If Luffy received KKG like he punched Doffy, he won’t just take damage from the punch. The impact will damage him.

Going by your explanation, he spits up blood due to his internal organs not being able to with the impact. The blood are nicely packed in vessels, so any for of bleedingnis due to internal rupture. And in my book this is a damage. So Luffy sponge effect or not, does take damage.

I understand where you are coming from and your argument is logic but remember that this is the manga where people can survive with half their skull burned by magma, and 30 min after die standing, get hit by a 2km tall elephant trunk and survive, fall from the sky and survive and the list goes on.

So if the manga says that luffy is almost immune to blunt attacks then it cant be countered by real life logic

 

[McNuss]

I understand where you are coming from and your argument is logic but remember that this is the manga where people can survive with half their skull burned by magma, and 30 min after die standing, get hit by a 2km tall elephant trunk and survive, fall from the sky and survive and the list goes on.

So if the manga says that luffy is almost immune to blunt attacks then it cant be countered by real life logic

I don't think Whitebeard stood for 30 Minutes after his face was burned, the events following it happened quite fast. It was probably less than 15 minutes.

By the way it is actually possible to survive losing a piece of your head (though not on the scale of Whitebeards) if you are treated immediately, but is usually results in severe disability.

It's obvious that Luffy would not have defeated Doflamingo without Law, and gear 4, however it's also obvious that Katakuri could have defeated Doflamingo, but Luffy was able to defeat Katakuri (yes, he did defeat Katakuri. I still see a few people on here who think that wasn't a win for Luffy. Surprising amount of denial).

Well, technically Luffy had help from Brulee, while Katakuri was unwillingly aided by Flambe and her squad, so like the Doflamingo fight it was not a clear 1v1.

However Luffy defeating Katakuri doesn't mean he's stronger than Katakuri. Luffy won because he triggered a character growth in Katakuri that made his defeat inadvertly inevitable for him.

 

[SupremeMod]

I'm watching some OP mostly old episodes(marineford end) and why doesn't anyone give Sengoku some love? I'm drunk and it's probably been covered, but homeboy was the only person in the World at that time that could have held Garp down, and he had position. Garp and Sengoku should probably both still be counted as scary powers. Rayleigh, too.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 8, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 8, 2018 ---

Power levels stop making sense halfway through any lengthy manga. Moria, Kaido, Shanks, Mihawk, Teach, etc. Trying to make sense of any of it will just end in frustration.

Oda decides, at any given time, his characters' abilities.

Anyone else high and drunk? lol

 

[jaymizzo]

I'm watching some OP mostly old episodes(marineford end) and why doesn't anyone give Sengoku some love? I'm drunk and it's probably been covered, but homeboy was the only person in the World at that time that could have held Garp down, and he had position. Garp and Sengoku should probably both still be counted as scary powers. Rayleigh, too.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 8, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 8, 2018 ---

Power levels stop making sense halfway through any lengthy manga. Moria, Kaido, Shanks, Mihawk, Teach, etc. Trying to make sense of any of it will just end in frustration.

Oda decides, at any given time, his characters' abilities.

Anyone else high and drunk? lol

I wish I saw this on Thursday, I'm feeling like that now! The Dad's of OP don't get much love. People don't even talk about him and Garp or him and Corazon! Gonna rewatch Marineford again, I feel like having an emotional high night.

And the issue with power levels is that they are deciding in most cases by the community. For example, look at Bounties.... Yes, we had characters choke at a high bounty in the manga, but we knew or atleast should know now that they are not a reflection of strength.

And reputation itself doesn't necessarily mean much, if you read One Punch man, use King as a reference. Moria for example may or may not have been Kaidous equal, it could all be heresay and it started from a similar thing with Luffy and story after story made it sound like Moria actually fought on equal footing. We as readers should be aware of show not tell. Oda can say that someone is immortal but then go onto kill them. The events should inform us not character lines.

I remember you from the Naruto forums, those times taught me that characters saying things doesn't always mean much. Remember Jiraiya > Itachi and Kisame or 3rd Hokage was the strongest? Good times.

 

[King Moe]

Yes we finally see the remaining calamities!!! However by their description Jack seems to have the best design out of them all.

It's always good to see lord Mihawk in a chapter, just like his pupil and rival zoro he brings the hype! Talking about it, I expected to see the strawhats more this chapter but it's ok I can be patient

So shiryu has the suke suke no mi? I dont see how exactly this will improve his swordsmanship at all, at this point all of his opponents will have observation haki.

Also shout out to the guy who predicted Moria to come back into the story

Too bad Zoro lost his hype so far as he hasn't done anything prevalent as we thought especially Zoro fans. Still has much to learn unlike Mihawk lol.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Too bad Zoro lost his hype so far as he hasn't done anything prevalent as we thought especially Zoro fans. Still has much to learn unlike Mihawk lol.

Getting the hypetrain back on track is.. a piece of cake.

 

[King Moe]

Getting the hypetrain back on track is.. a piece of cake.

We will see. Still hoping for Orochi vs Zoro in this arc, but expect him to lose and break a sword to gain a new sword later on for a comeback. Got make him realistic that he can't always have easy fights like he had before .

 

[kkck]

Too bad Zoro lost his hype so far as he hasn't done anything prevalent as we thought especially Zoro fans. Still has much to learn unlike Mihawk lol.

I'd argue that zoro not having had difficult fights so far should be a reason to hype him. It's not like he hasn't had fights either. Sure, monet was nearly fodder but an ultimately comfortable win over pikka should speak volume's of zoro's overall strength.

 

[King Moe]

I'd argue that zoro not having had difficult fights so far should be a reason to hype him. It's not like he hasn't had fights either. Sure, monet was nearly fodder but an ultimately comfortable win over pikka should speak volume's of zoro's overall strength.

Though not challenging as much compare to Luffy's and Sanji's opponents though. He been having more easier opponents than the more confronting ones like those two have.

 

[kkck]

Though not challenging as much compare to Luffy's and Sanji's opponents though. He been having more easier opponents than the more confronting ones like those two have.

Sanji has had a few more fights than zoro but given the context he doesn't have a significant advantage in that regard. He couldn't fight well against vergo and got owned by doflamingo... And didn't have any meaningful fights at WCI. Zoro at least had a decent fight and victory against pika.

 

[King Moe]

Man zoro has defeated effortlessly an executive of DD while Sanji got his ass handle to him by the same level exectutive, I understand your butthurt but there was zero mentions of zoro in this chapter so keep your pain to yourself.

As to the spoilers they look super fake but if they are legit I’m pretty surprised by the amount of content. Revs vs admirals alone worth at least a chapter, same to calamities and Moriah. I think a lot of fans predicted Moriah to come back in this arc, the only question now if he will survie BB and make it there in time, I guess he could have some shadow hax travel abilities likeDD with clouds. Anyway amazing overview of things going on around the world by BB and all that info counts for me as 10 chapters if legit. Amazing.

Same lvl? The heck you comparing them equally lol. Are you crazy XD? So your saying Monet and Pica are equal to Vergo and Doflamingo? Along with Daifuku and Oven of Yonko Crew? Your Zoro fanboyism is strong in your post. Their opponents were never equal and it's clear Sanji and Luffy had tougher opponents while Zoro had easier ones. Each time he face a serious fighter, his ass gets beat each time. Fujitora, Doflamingo (Couldn't even cut the birdcage), and recently Hawkins who he can't even deflect FREAKING NAILS (Emphasizing, not yelling)? Stop with biased and so speak respectfully please and I am not really upset over this at all. It's clear Zoro had easier opponents out of them and I am not the only one speaking this.

Onto the spoilers Idk if they are legit or not, but who knows what we can expect on Oda's side as it feels kinda his style and usually first spoilers don't have much compare to others later on, so we will see.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 21, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 21, 2018 ---

Sanji has had a few more fights than zoro but given the context he doesn't have a significant advantage in that regard. He couldn't fight well against vergo and got owned by doflamingo... And didn't have any meaningful fights at WCI. Zoro at least had a decent fight and victory against pika.

Vergo has reasons on why Sanji have that result with him, but he did give a big fight to him. I understand Doflamingo, but honestly we all know he wouldn't be defeated except by Luffy, so no shame in losing to him just like Law and Zoro as well (Zoro can't cut birdcage so it's heavily hinted he couldn't take him).

I respect Zoro with Pica, but not really a true fight. It was hide and seek more than face to face fights, so doesn't show much on Zoro if he is Vetter especially his last fight with Hawkins kinda too some momentum away on how to gauge his strength just saying. We have something on Sanji since he hasn't shown full power as well and WCI proves he has more potential just like Zoro the same.

 

[kkck]

Vergo has reasons on why Sanji have that result with him, but he did give a big fight to him. I understand Doflamingo, but honestly we all know he wouldn't be defeated except by Luffy, so no shame in losing to him just like Law and Zoro as well (Zoro can't cut birdcage so it's heavily hinted he couldn't take him).

I respect Zoro with Pica, but not really a true fight. It was hide and seek more than face to face fights, so doesn't show much on Zoro if he is Vetter especially his last fight with Hawkins kinda too some momentum away on how to gauge his strength just saying. We have something on Sanji since he hasn't shown full power as well and WCI proves he has more potential just like Zoro the same.

Sure, but the fight was not finished and of course, sanji was injured. I'd say its technically a feat for sanji given the circumstances but it remains the case that the fight was not finished. It is understandable that sanji lost to doflamingo though its not like sanji has much to show for it. And the bit against oven was fun but it doesn't tell us that much about sanji's strength either. Is it really THAT surprising that sanji could land a kick on an unsuspecting enemy?

As for zoro and pica... what difference does that make? That is simply how pica fought which is perfectly valid. And even then zoro had a mostly comfortable win against him.

And ultimately.... zoro hasn't used his azura yet. Or whatever he has now instead of that. Meanwhile sanji has been abusing his diable jambe for a while. I'd argue it'd take at least the raid suit for him to actually match zoro. Which is valid of course but if this is the case it does strongly suggest an important difference between them up to very recently.