One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[M3J]

From what I've seen most of us agree that the RS adds speed, durability and invisibility to Sanji's repertoire. How will you feel about Sanji taking out a YC given that his portrayal has been less than stellar post TS?

Especially considering this will be his first proper 1 on 1 in the new world. Hell memories and poele frire spectre; maybe concasse have been the strongest moves he's used so far.

If he has something stronger, even if we include his growth during the fight, why wait till now to show it and how much would it have helped at an earlier point in the NW?

I wouldn't have an issue because he is strong, despite what some derps here like to claim. Oda's been weird though, showing mostly Luffy's growth.

 

[Fox666]

From what I've seen most of us agree that the RS adds speed, durability and invisibility to Sanji's repertoire. How will you feel about Sanji taking out a YC given that his portrayal has been less than stellar post TS?

Especially considering this will be his first proper 1 on 1 in the new world. Hell memories and poele frire spectre; maybe concasse have been the strongest moves he's used so far.

If he has something stronger, even if we include his growth during the fight, why wait till now to show it and how much would it have helped at an earlier point in the NW?

The author can make the characters as strong as he wish.

However, to me it would not feel fair given everything Luffy went through to defeat Cracker or Katakuri, if Sanji just happes to be capable of similar feat now.

 

[Ellenate]

Let me get this straight-

Whitebeard, even in the condition he was in, was the strongest person on the planet during marineford?

Does that make blackbeard the current strongest?

is it solely due to the fruit?

I always figured the other yonkos were equally matched with blackbeard but i'm starting to think he out powers them... by a lot.

 

[HereNThere]

Let me get this straight-

Whitebeard, even in the condition he was in, was the strongest person on the planet during marineford?

Does that make blackbeard the current strongest?

is it solely due to the fruit?

I always figured the other yonkos were equally matched with blackbeard but i'm starting to think he out powers them... by a lot.

Eh, probably not. He posed a significant threat still, but he was far from his prime and, as Mihawk assumed, much closer to everyone else's level at that point in time.

Not at this point, no. Oda has continually pointed out that, right now, Kaido is the current big dog on the sea.

It's unlikely that the fruit was the sole contributor to the title. Blackbeard hasn't appeared to have inherited the title, despite the fact that he's had the fruit for two years now.

In terms of sheer destructive capabilities? Absolutely. Everything else is debatable.

 

[M3J]

Let me get this straight-

Whitebeard, even in the condition he was in, was the strongest person on the planet during marineford?

Does that make blackbeard the current strongest?

is it solely due to the fruit?

I always figured the other yonkos were equally matched with blackbeard but i'm starting to think he out powers them... by a lot.

I don't think so. Whitebeard wasn't called the strongest because of his devil fruit, but because he himself was just that strong. Even in his old, very sick age he stopped a huge ass ship from doing kamikaze attack. Blackbeard is extremely dangerous and has the power to destroy the world, but I don't think he's stronger than any other Emperor, at least so far.

 

[XXGenesis]

I'll disagree until we get more info about Enma but I'm not 100% against the idea.

I agree with waiting for more info, but I disagree with you.

Simply because Zoro was visibly tired after the attack, similar to the time he 1st used Enma.

Enma is a tool....Whatever feats Zoro preforms with it is his own ability, skill...therefore it is his own strength & power; Even if the tool gives some type of boost.

Weapon users shouldn’t be faulted for power increase due to their weapon. Same as when Zoro gained Shunsui; His flying slashes became bigger Zoro said he would have to tame the sword, similar to Enma just more tame.

 

[Ellenate]

I don't think so. Whitebeard wasn't called the strongest because of his devil fruit, but because he himself was just that strong. Even in his old, very sick age he stopped a huge ass ship from doing kamikaze attack. Blackbeard is extremely dangerous and has the power to destroy the world, but I don't think he's stronger than any other Emperor, at least so far.

It makes more sense if it was due to the fruit (and explains why blackbeard went through such lengths to get it).

The title could just be about destructive capabilities. In terms of a fight though, things can play out differently (take luffy vs enel).

 

[Fox666]

Let me get this straight-

Whitebeard, even in the condition he was in, was the strongest person on the planet during marineford?

I'm under the impression that Whitebeard's title is a remnant of his golden years.

As Buggy said, he's called the world's strongest because he was evenly matched with Roger.

He may no longer have an edge over the other Yonko during his death.

Does that make blackbeard the current strongest?

is it solely due to the fruit?

I always figured the other yonkos were equally matched with blackbeard but i'm starting to think he out powers them... by a lot.

Whitebeard's fruit alone would not make him the strongest in the world.

Officially, the Gura Gura no Mi is the "strongest Paramecia", and as powerful as a Logia.

That's understandable, given the ridiculous destructive power of Kizaru or Akainu.

 

[Ellenate]

I'm under the impression that Whitebeard's title is a remnant of his golden years.

That's what i assumed too but i think he's holding it at marineford. Mihawk challenging him, sengoku's words, being the closest to pirate king-


...and with how horrible his fellow yonko's are doing against the supernovas.


the whole "you all overestimated kaido" thing got me thinking.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I agree with waiting for more info, but I disagree with you.

Simply because Zoro was visibly tired after the attack, similar to the time he 1st used Enma.

Enma is a tool....Whatever feats Zoro preforms with it is his own ability, skill...therefore it is his own strength & power; Even if the tool gives some type of boost.

Weapon users shouldn’t be faulted for power increase due to their weapon. Same as when Zoro gained Shunsui; His flying slashes became bigger Zoro said he would have to tame the sword, similar to Enma just more tame.

I'm not faulting Zoro at all. I'm not holding this against him. But it also isn't fair to say this is all Zoro when he was handed the "only blade" capable of seriously injuring Kaido.

Killer, Law, Kidd, nor Luffy got any kind of magically attributed weapon to help them in the fight. I certainly understand your position and I'm not going to go around saying Zoro is weak and only Enma is making him strong. I know he's strong and his haki pool must be outrageous to even wield Enma but I have to wonder if Zoro would be capable of doing all this with Shusui. I don't think he could.

I'm ready to change my opinion based on the info Oda provides

 

[HereNThere]

the whole "you all overestimated kaido" thing got me thinking.

Don't swing towards the other extreme of underestimating him and, by extension, Big Mom. People were saying the same thing about Kaido when he was fighting against the Scabbards and we saw how that turned out. The fight just started with the Supernova and we need to see that they can at least be effective against him, otherwise, there's no where the plot could go from this point if they are still useless.

Kaido probably has more club techniques to show off, he's yet to use Haki, he has a hybrid form, and he likely has an awakened form to finish things off. Kaido has far from shown his entire repertoire and they need to overcome all of these, assuredly, increasingly powerful stages before things are all said and done. And it's quite possible that not all of them are not going to be conscious to see the end.

 

[Ellenate]

Don't swing towards the other extreme of underestimating him

Underestimate him by what standard?

 

[Shasha23]

I'm not faulting Zoro at all. I'm not holding this against him. But it also isn't fair to say this is all Zoro when he was handed the "only blade" capable of seriously injuring Kaido.

Killer, Law, Kidd, nor Luffy got any kind of magically attributed weapon to help them in the fight. I certainly understand your position and I'm not going to go around saying Zoro is weak and only Enma is making him strong. I know he's strong and his haki pool must be outrageous to even wield Enma but I have to wonder if Zoro would be capable of doing all this with Shusui. I don't think he could.

I'm ready to change my opinion based on the info Oda provides

it does sound like your faulting him for gaining a new weapon though, anyway the attacks he is using are attacks performed by him own strength its illogical to say it cant be him but a weapon he is using.

As for the Shusui bit I doubt Shusui would be able to perform such wide range attacks since that wasn't its strength but Shusui was a black blade, it being able to cut Kaido wouldn't be questionable since it was far stronger blade than ichimonji and enma

 

[HereNThere]

Underestimate him by what standard?

Basically just because the Supernova are doing pretty good against him at this exact moment, don't run with the idea that this is the standard he's shown against threats comparable to his actual true level.

 

[Pirate Queen]

it does sound like your faulting him for gaining a new weapon though, anyway the attacks he is using are attacks performed by him own strength its illogical to say it cant be him but a weapon he is using.

As for the Shusui bit I doubt Shusui would be able to perform such wide range attacks since that wasn't its strength but Shusui was a black blade, it being able to cut Kaido wouldn't be questionable since it was far stronger blade than ichimonji and enma

In what sense am I faulting him? Because I'm saying he can't do the same thing with a different sword? Thats just saying something factual. If he didn't need Enma Oda wouldn't have made it a major plot point. Zoro other swords can't cut Kaido. That proven. Eventually he will be able to but not now. Some connection Enma has to Oden is helping Zoro. To say Zoro is not getting any aid from Enma to be able to do the things he is doing... isn't accurate and I'm not going to pretend it is.

Thats not faulting Zoro.

Enma can't attack on its own. Zoro is the one swing he blade....

 

[Shasha23]

In what sense am I faulting him? Because I'm saying he can't do the same thing with a different sword? Thats just saying something factual. If he didn't need Enma Oda wouldn't have made it a major plot point. Zoro other swords can't cut Kaido. That proven. Eventually he will be able to but not now. Some connection Enma has to Oden is helping Zoro. To say Zoro is not getting any aid from Enma to be able to do the things he is doing... isn't accurate and I'm not going to pretend it is.

Thats not faulting Zoro.

Enma can't attack on its own. Zoro is the one swing he blade....

But its his weapon, its like saying Luffy is useless and wouldn't do shit to Kaido without the gomu gomu no mi and regarding the gomu gomu no mi as Shanks's power and not Luffy's, it ain't right.
When was it proven he cant cut Kaido with his other swords?

Spoiler: 1003

He just cut Kaido with his other swords, blades that were weaker than Shusui

Zoro is getting aid from Enma just as he is getting aid from Wado and Kitetsu, they are his weapons, why fault the weapons for Zoro's feats?
Each blade has its own characteristics, Enma cuts more than a regular blade should, Kitetsu is bloodthirsty and always draws the enemies blood while unfortunately Oda has not elaborated more on Ichimonji but it strong enough to not take a single chip from clashing with Yoru or Daz Bones, it is an extremely durable blade.

 

[Pirate Queen]

But its his weapon, its like saying Luffy is useless and wouldn't do shit to Kaido without the gomu gomu no mi and regarding the gomu gomu no mi as Shanks's power and not Luffy's, it ain't right.
When was it proven he cant cut Kaido with his other swords?

Spoiler: 1003

He just cut Kaido with his other swords, blades that were weaker than Shusui

Zoro is getting aid from Enma just as he is getting aid from Wado and Kitetsu, they are his weapons, why fault the weapons for Zoro's feats?
Each blade has its own characteristics, Enma cuts more than a regular blade should, Kitetsu is bloodthirsty and always draw the enemies blood while unfortunately Oda has not elaborated more on Ichimonji but it strong enough to not take a single chip from clashing with Yoru or Daz Bones, it is an extremely durable blade.

Not at all the same. If Luffy suddenly got a weapon(let's just say metal gauntlets) that could hurt Kaido... that would be the same thing.

Enma has magical properties that allow Zoro to do something he would otherwise be UNABLE to do.

That is all I'm saying. And I'm saying it because it's the truth.

How is it fair that Zoro gets Enma and Killer doesn't get a special weapon? Or Kidd? Tell me who else got something magical to help them fight a Yonko...

 

[M3J]

It makes more sense if it was due to the fruit (and explains why blackbeard went through such lengths to get it).

The title could just be about destructive capabilities. In terms of a fight though, things can play out differently (take luffy vs enel).

I don't think so as they never really mentioned his fruit or destructive capabilities, but he inherited that title after Roger passed, if I recall correctly. Blackbeard got the fruit because it's OP, but it wouldn't make him the strongest. We've never seen Blackbeard get hyped to that level after the timeskip, even when Jinbei was catching Luffy up on current events.

 

[Shasha23]

Not at all the same. If Luffy suddenly got a weapon(let's just say metal gauntlets) that could hurt Kaido... that would be the same thing.

Enma has magical properties that allow Zoro to do something he would otherwise be UNABLE to do.

That is all I'm saying. And I'm saying it because it's the truth.

How is it fair that Zoro gets Enma and Killer doesn't get a special weapon? Or Kidd? Tell me who else got something magical to help them fight a Yonko...

How would it be the same, Zoro gave up 1 sword and picked up another, he didn't get a 4th sword that made him stronger for no reason.
Like I said Enma is not the only special blade, all of Zoro's blades have had special properties, we arent seeing anything new with Enma.

It isn't the truth since that's not how it is, but what you wish it is maybe, you cant take away from Zoro just because of his weapons

Kidd just stole other people weapon yet you talk about fairness LOL.

How is enma magical, Zoro gave up a sword that made his attacks at minimum 3* as strong as they should be and took enma, just because enma can cut more than it should doesn't make it not Zoro's power, Shusui made Zoro's attack 3* stronger than they should be so should we punish Zoro for that too?
Kitetsu never fails to draw blood should we condemn Zoro for that too?
Yubashiri gave Zoro a speed boost should we condemn him for that too?

 

[Pirate Queen]

How would it be the same, Zoro gave up 1 sword and picked up another, he didn't get a 4th sword that made him stronger for no reason.
Like I said Enma is not the only special blade, all of Zoro's blades have had special properties, we arent seeing anything new with Enma.

It isn't the truth since that's not how it is, but what you wish it is maybe, you cant take away from Zoro just because of his weapons

Kidd just stole other people weapon yet you talk about fairness LOL.

How is enma magical, Zoro gave up a sword that made his attacks at minimum 3* as strong as they should be and took enma, just because enma can cut more than it should doesn't make it not Zoro's power, Shusui made Zoro's attack 3* stronger than they should be so should we punish Zoro for that too?
Kitetsu never fails to draw blood should we condemn Zoro for that too?
Yubashiri gave Zoro a speed boost should we condemn him for that too?

It clear you don't understand how Enma is a power up for Zoro so I'm just going to walk away from this for now.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 3, 2021, Original Post Date: Feb 3, 2021 ---

If Zoro is capable of doing everything he can WITHOUT Enma.... why is Enma still the only sword he has that is capable of cutting Kaido?

Interesting question that no one seems to have the answer to...