One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

No, lol, it would mean Sanji is a pansy ass little bitchboi to someone like Yamato who is eating explosions left and right this arc. When should I expect Yamato to start breaking bones lmao. Or do you even recall that Usopp suffered through the same explosion? Lmao keep crying harder



Injection shot did brute force damage to Kaido, so some techniques have grown, doesn't mean all must have grown in parity as Countershock and Gamma Knife are his two most haxxed out techiques outside of island cuts, these techniaques are strong enough as is. Or you reckon he will slice up entire countries or whatever the fuck? And you don't care about my argument because of your bias, like the fact that it didn't create a corona on BM while it did on Vergo. This is an obvious difference and you don't have an answer for this, no surprise

Ehhh Yamato is the child of kaido if she inherited his natural resilience that’s not a knock on sanji , Yamato dad is the toughest and sturdiest person in the show , she’s inherited some of that strength

Because you paying too much attention ancillary effects , law was able to slice vergo like butter , if it was so easy why’ hasn’t he sliced and diced the yonkou like butter
You’re seriously arguing that vergo is tougher than big mum , he’s not even close to her
You think sanji and smoker of punk hazard would be able to even harm her ?

 

[King Moe]

No, lol, it would mean Sanji is a pansy ass little bitchboi to someone like Yamato who is eating explosions left and right this arc. When should I expect Yamato to start breaking bones lmao. Or do you even recall that Usopp suffered through the same explosion? Lmao keep crying harder



Injection shot did brute force damage to Kaido, so some techniques have grown, doesn't mean all must have grown in parity as Countershock and Gamma Knife are his two most haxxed out techiques outside of island cuts, these techniaques are strong enough as is. Or you reckon he will slice up entire countries or whatever the fuck? And you don't care about my argument because of your bias, like the fact that it didn't create a corona on BM while it did on Vergo. This is an obvious difference and you don't have an answer for this, no surprise

Sanji beat Vergo's ass and why your using scene when Nami's is in Sanji's body? You expect her to fight like Sanji would? Bruh, Sanji was over Vergo and to damage him while nerfed is shows if Sanji was healthy going in, he would beat Vergo.

 

[Critical mindset]

Ehhh Yamato is the child of kaido if she inherited his natural resilience that’s not a knock on sanji , Yamato dad is the toughest and sturdiest person in the show , she’s inherited some of that strength

Yeah and Usopp dude, give it a fucking break. Usopp was in good condition, so how the fuck can Sanji break his elg from an wexplosion. Zoro has taken what, Sonic cut from Apoo, bite from Queen, 2 BM lightning attacks and now damage sustained from blocking Hakkai. While Sanji breaks his leg from an Usopp level explosion. Dont embarrass yourself anymore

Because you paying too much attention ancillary effects , law was able to slice vergo like butter , if it was so easy why’ hasn’t he sliced and diced the yonkou like butter

Because they have CoC. Law said he can't use shambles because of their "haki" (see: he did not say "armament haki" so it is implied its CoC or both stopping him from using his spatial hax powers). Vergo was never shambled btw, so thats why he had confidence in his haki being able to stand up to Law, but Law maxxed out on df power perhaps augmented by haki. Fact is we don't know. Law doesnt have Smoker's haki who was bested by a plant weapon of Vergo. The only reason Vergo's weapon hasn't shattered to pieces is because of his CoA level

You’re seriously arguing that vergo is tougher than big mum , he’s not even close to her

Think he is around the same level durable He took a more potent dose but he sustained more damage

You think sanji and smoker of punk hazard would be able to even harm her ?

yes, Queen fractured her skull and KOd her effectively. Smoker AP > Queen, and he can even use the same barrier haki as Yamato (see his attack on Smoker that gave him a cut). Sanji has Diable Jambe that is too powerful for the likes of Tobi Roppi as even Sanji's haki would hurt Black Maria if he hardened his body. Sanji with DJ + haki like he used on Vergo would for sure hurt Big Mom lol Funny enough Vergo walked off the damages

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 25, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 25, 2021 ---

Sanji beat Vergo's ass and why your using scene when Nami's is in Sanji's body? You expect her to fight like Sanji would? Bruh, Sanji was over Vergo and to damage him while nerfed is shows if Sanji was healthy going in, he would beat Vergo.

I'm not debating you, you are a broken record of garbage

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 25, 2021 ---

Sanji beat Vergo's ass and why your using scene when Nami's is in Sanji's body? You expect her to fight like Sanji would? Bruh, Sanji was over Vergo and to damage him while nerfed is shows if Sanji was healthy going in, he would beat Vergo.

I'm not debating you, you are a broken record of garbage

 

[King Moe]

Yeah and Usopp dude, give it a fucking break. Usopp was in good condition, so how the fuck can Sanji break his elg from an wexplosion. Zoro has taken what, Sonic cut from Apoo, bite from Queen, 2 BM lightning attacks and now damage sustained from blocking Hakkai. While Sanji breaks his leg from an Usopp level explosion. Dont embarrass yourself anymore



Because they have CoC. Law said he can't use shambles because of their "haki" (see: he did not say "armament haki" so it is implied its CoC or both stopping him from using his spatial hax powers). Vergo was never shambled btw, so thats why he had confidence in his haki being able to stand up to Law, but Law maxxed out on df power perhaps augmented by haki. Fact is we don't know. Law doesnt have Smoker's haki who was bested by a plant weapon of Vergo. The only reason Vergo's weapon hasn't shattered to pieces is because of his CoA level


Think he is around the same level durable He took a more potent dose but he sustained more damage


yes, Queen fractured her skull and KOd her effectively. Smoker AP > Queen, and he can even use the same barrier haki as Yamato (see his attack on Smoker that gave him a cut). Sanji has Diable Jambe that is too powerful for the likes of Tobi Roppi as even Sanji's haki would hurt Black Maria if he hardened his body. Sanji with DJ + haki like he used on Vergo would for sure hurt Big Mom lol Funny enough Vergo walked off the damages

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 25, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 25, 2021 ---

I'm not debating you, you are a broken record of garbage

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 25, 2021 ---

I'm not debating you, you are a broken record of garbage

Don't spam and I don't mind, but just stating your headcannon is not convincing others. Your acting like Sanji and Law were unable to beat Vergo despite damage he took and Law beat him. I respect if that is your favorite character, but don't bring headcannons to the point you think even now they can't do anything to Vergo.

Also again stop using past arcs to state how Sanji and Law is now especially both were nerfed fighting Vergo and still handle him. Your not even trying to be accurate on scene Nami in Sanji's body called him durable after tanking explosion, but pretending it stop him when it didn't. You actually expect Nami to know how to work Sanji's body is illogical by far and have no sense whatsoever.

 

[Critical mindset]

Don't spam and I don't mind, but just stating your headcannon is not convincing others. Your acting like Sanji and Law were unable to beat Vergo despite damage he took and Law beat him. I respect if that is your favorite character, but don't bring headcannons to the point you think even now they can't do anything to Vergo.

Also again stop using past arcs to state how Sanji and Law is now especially both were nerfed fighting Vergo and still handle him. Your not even trying to be accurate on scene Nami in Sanji's body called him durable after tanking explosion, but pretending it stop him when it didn't. You actually expect Nami to know how to work Sanji's body is illogical by far and have no sense whatsoever.

Sanji is a piece of garbage shit character then. Zoro is far more durable and doesn't get his bones broken by some shit explosion lmao what a pussy character you stan. Sanji dies to Hakkai lmao. Sanji would get hospitalised from Apoo Sonic cut >>> Usopp explosion. You know what, Kamazou would straight up kill Sanji. Sanji is real trash

Sanji dies to this explosion lmao. Maybe thats why he needs to put on some poweranger fagsuit. He still dies

 

[King Moe]

Sanji is a piece of garbage shit character then. Zoro is far more durable and doesn't get his bones broken by some shit explosion lmao what a pussy character you stan. Sanji dies to Hakkai lmao. Sanji would get hospitalised from Apoo Sonic cut >>> Usopp explosion. You know what, Kamazou would straight up kill Sanji. Sanji is real trash

Sanji dies to this explosion lmao. Maybe thats why he needs to put on some poweranger fagsuit. He still dies

Zoro would have die from that attack if not for Law and why you keep using past arcs to current arcs on characters. Stop BSing and accept Vergo is fodder character to these guys. Comparing him to the Yonkos is headcannon and you know it. Sanji tanked stronger attacks than Vergo shown onto him and explosion did nothing to stop him from busting him open and sending him flying despite nerfed.

Sanji tanked King's Full Zoan and your thinking he can't handle any of what you stating? Come back when Vergo isn't dead and Law didn't one-shot him before talking on how other characters are. Sanji already proven he is above Supernova like Apoo and Kamazou get beaten easily if he fainted with Zoro each from one attack. Stop acting on insecurity and face facts that Vergo get his ass handed to him by any of the characters here.

Vergo is one to always have trash attach to his cheek, so Idk why your trying to insert something when trash is on him.

Imagine trying to go after character when he isn't in his own body and your using Nami in Sanji's body like he should have done something or she should do something on her side, but even with that he still tanked the explosion and anyone would not last to Hakai attack, not even Vergo.

Can't tell if your serious or just trolling with what headcannon you been on.

 

[Zehahaha]

Why are you guys even engaging with him actually ? @King Moe we might disagree on Sanji, but even I know this guy is straight up trolling at this point

 

[King Moe]

Why are you guys even engaging with him actually ? @King Moe we might disagree on Sanji, but even I know this guy is straight up trolling at this point

I can tell how he sounds. You guys see me with Sanji, but just defending facts about him that are canon. You don't see me going headcannon like this guy or Nik on how much scale their character to be something above when not possible.

Also we can respectfully agree to disagree @Zehahaha, but him not fighting female doesn't mess with his character given we seen it before. Should think Sanji won't do anything else in the arc when it have him facing someone stronger on his side and be tide of battle. If you know Enies Lobby, you know you ot have patience for OP since Oda does zig zag with moments. Get what I mean?

 

[Zehahaha]

Is


I can tell how he sounds. You guys see me with Sanji, but just defending facts about him that are canon. You don't see me going headcannon like this guy or Nik on how much scale their character to be something above when not possible.

Also we can respectfully agree to disagree @Zehahaha, but him not fighting female doesn't mess with his character given we seen it before. Should think Sanji won't do anything else in the arc when it have him facing someone stronger on his side and be tide of battle. If you know Enies Lobby, you know you ot have patience for OP since Oda does zig zag with moments. Get what I mean?

Certainly Oda had mistreated Sanji since FI, and did not give him the treatment he deserves. Although, we should've seen this coming since Zoro and Luffy were clearly set up to grow much more strength wise compared to Sanji (their goals requires them to do so).

What is frustrating about Sanji is that he didn't get a single moment to really shine other than baking the freaking cake. For instance, did Oda really need to put us through the whole circus of having Sanji face Black Maria especially since the outcome was obvious ? I wish Sanji kept on fighting King instead as that would've been better. We know he is weak towards women, no need to rub it in our faces especially when the situation at Onigashima is very serious.

Now I agree with you that since Sanji is nowhere to be seen at the moment, it means Oda is keeping him for something. I just hope from the bottom of my heart that Oda will make him shine by facing one of the calamities.

 

[King Moe]

Certainly Oda had mistreated Sanji since FI, and did not give him the treatment he deserves. Although, we should've seen this coming since Zoro and Luffy were clearly set up to grow much more strength wise compared to Sanji (their goals requires them to do so).

What is frustrating about Sanji is that he didn't get a single moment to really shine other than baking the freaking cake. For instance, did Oda really need to put us through the whole circus of having Sanji face Black Maria especially since the outcome was obvious ? I wish Sanji kept on fighting King instead as that would've been better. We know he is weak towards women, no need to rub it in our faces especially when the situation at Onigashima is very serious.

Now I agree with you that since Sanji is nowhere to be seen at the moment, it means Oda is keeping him for something. I just hope from the bottom of my heart that Oda will make him shine by facing one of the calamities.

Wouldn't call mistreatment. The issue on is that we haven't seen full fight from him for awhile. His character been fine on helpful and working in the arcs, but would like a bit more on his fights too.

Also not really. Even Zoro never got serious fight until this arc too. Only Luffy got more development of the crew and their goals does not mean everyone else won't be strong especially Sanji who hasn't shown his full power either. Dreams doesn't mean where you placed otherwise Whitebeard and Big Mom wouldn't be where they are.

Dude let's not go cake talk again. Cake saved the crew from Big Mom. They wasn't going to stop her even team up as we seen in current arc on what she can do. Also don't think he rubbing in the face if we seen this before even in pre-timeskip.

This are Strawhats, they don't stay serious into arc or to the plan as it happen each arc. Not only Sanji if you think that. You and everyone including me need patience as this how OP is when reaching moments. Shouldn't take him not fighting female seriously like some of didn't as we knew that wasn't his true fight.

 

[Zehahaha]

Wouldn't call mistreatment. The issue on is that we haven't seen full fight from him for awhile. His character been fine on helpful and working in the arcs, but would like a bit more on his fights too.

Also not really. Even Zoro never got serious fight until this arc too. Only Luffy got more development of the crew and their goals does not mean everyone else won't be strong especially Sanji who hasn't shown his full power either. Dreams doesn't mean where you placed otherwise Whitebeard and Big Mom wouldn't be where they are.

Dude let's not go cake talk again. Cake saved the crew from Big Mom. They wasn't going to stop her even team up as we seen in current arc on what she can do. Also don't think he rubbing in the face if we seen this before even in pre-timeskip.

This are Strawhats, they don't stay serious into arc or to the plan as it happen each arc. Not only Sanji if you think that. You and everyone including me need patience as this how OP is when reaching moments. Shouldn't take him not fighting female seriously like some of didn't as we knew that wasn't his true fight.

The cake simply saved BM pirates and Totto Land, not the SHs. In the end, it made no difference that the old hag got her cake, she still came after the SHs. Although I agree that their escape was made more easier that way.

From my perspective, I don't want Oda to waste panels on things we already know the outcome for, especially in serious moments. I don't mind Sanji comically losing to female characters if it was a bit of a comedy chapter or light hearted one. But now, it's do or die, he shouldn't be pulling these antics. We know he is weak against women, so please spare us these kind of chapters.

A good example of a fight that made use of Sanji's weakness against women was his fight against Mr 2. It was funny, yet pretty awesome at the same time because Sanji still managed to find a work around and beat Mr 2.

There are times for comedy and times for battles, and it isn't easy combining the two. This is best done when it flows nicely and doesn't sound cliche. Sanji getting tricked and caught by Black Maria is extremely cliche. Zoro getting handcuffed by Usopp and fighting against Kaku and Jabura was funny. Usopp fighting against Perona was funny too.

 

[King Moe]

The cake simply saved BM pirates and Totto Land, not the SHs. In the end, it made no difference that the old hag got her cake, she still came after the SHs. Although I agree that their escape was made more easier that way.

From my perspective, I don't want Oda to waste panels on things we already know the outcome for, especially in serious moments. I don't mind Sanji comically losing to female characters if it was a bit of a comedy chapter or light hearted one. But now, it's do or die, he shouldn't be pulling these antics. We know he is weak against women, so please spare us these kind of chapters.

A good example of a fight that made use of Sanji's weakness against women was his fight against Mr 2. It was funny, yet pretty awesome at the same time because Sanji still managed to find a work around and beat Mr 2.

There are times for comedy and times for battles, and it isn't easy combining the two. This is best done when it flows nicely and doesn't sound cliche. Sanji getting tricked and caught by Black Maria is extremely cliche. Zoro getting handcuffed by Usopp and fighting against Kaku and Jabura was funny. Usopp fighting against Perona was funny too.

Nah, it stopped Big Mom as the Strawhats would have die if it wasn't for it. Don't denied facts about why it was needed as even Oda stated in SBS how important cake is. Just because she is knockout, doesn't stop her crew though and they were main issue on why it still take a bit getting out of Totto, not her. She didn't came afterwards to face them. What do you mean?

Dude it's like that every arc on having comedy in serious arc as we seen that before on everyone here, not just Sanji.

I mean I get what you mean, but again he did same thing in Enies Lobby, but it lead to Sanji being involved more into situation which you have to have patience on.

Not really as it was planned by the enemy who knew about his female weakness and plus he thought a woman was being attacked, so even if it was trap or not, he needed to go check given we already know it's not off for Beast Pirates to use hostages, so make sense. Not saying it was very funny, but it was expected to happen, but we know that she was never his true opponent and he facing someone stronger and will be on tide of battle. Got have patience for this on these situations.

 

[XXGenesis]

I feel like I was the spear or arrow head that started this whole Sanji is weak...& complained night & day about WCI & the f&$?!ing cake. With how disappointing it was.

Then comes along The Stans and calls everybody a Sanji hater. Lmfao. & actually the main complaint was ODA isn’t showing Sanji love. It was ODA must hate Sanji because he’s not cool anymore.

Sanji just isn’t as cool as he use to be. He doesn’t get many or any fights anymore. His gags are becoming too much because theirs a lack of balance

 

[Nie Li]

I feel like I was the spear or arrow head that started this whole Sanji is weak...& complained night & day about WCI & the f&$?!ing cake. With how disappointing it was.

Then comes along The Stans and calls everybody a Sanji hater. Lmfao. & actually the main complaint was ODA isn’t showing Sanji love. It was ODA must hate Sanji because he’s not cool anymore.

Sanji just isn’t as cool as he use to be. He doesn’t get many or any fights anymore. His gags are becoming too much because theirs a lack of balance

I'm sure Sanji will have a proper fight soon this arc.

The problem is that, sure, storywise there's only been like an hour or two of battles but for us it's been already more than a year and a half since they were heading to Onigashima. The problem is the pacing. "Soon" is months of real life waiting for it to happen. Hell, I feel like that about Zoro as well. Zoro has gotten some very, very sweet feats against Kaido as expected, but I still miss seeing some cool 1vs1 fight that pushes him to the limit to win. He had tons of those pre-TS and post-TS we barely saw him bleed until the Kaido fight).

I didn't mind Sanji's actions on WCI. He was pretty cool there even if he didn't get a major fight. Compared to WCI, in Fishman Island, Punzhazard and Dressrosa he was just sidelined. In those last two arcs he was used as fodder to hype the villains (Vergo and Doflamingo) which is a terrible treatment for such a character.

I'm more annoyed by Sanji's actions on Onigashima mostly because he:
- Fell into a trap that he should have avoided with CoO, at which he's supposed to be good at.
- He chose not to protect Nami and Usopp from two opponents they couldn't beat, sentencing them to death if it weren't for Tama, because bodyguarding Luffy to save his haki was more important than protecting others. He then chose to go save some random woman over escorting Luffy. It's a mix of out of character and extremely random behaviour.
- After falling for the trap, he then chose to stay there to fight the men instead of running away into a more favorable battlefield. Everywhere else on Onigashima the ratio of male to female opponents was overwhelmingly male, yet he chose to stay in the one room full of opponents he couldn't beat, even thinking something like "I should run away, but this is heaven".
- He got captured not because "he couldn't fight women", but because he chose not to run away from them despite showing he had the leisurely to move around freely for a long while by defeating the men.

Sanji is very strong and I'm sure he will defeat an All-Star, but his character portrayal on Onigashima is already ruined for me and as I just explained it's not exactly because he doesn't hit women. Had he not fallen for the trap he could have been useful elsewere. He could have saved Nami and Usopp ages ago or he could have helped Marco against King and Queen already or he could have beaten up Jack or he could have ran into Orochi, or Kanjuro, or he could have defeated Perospero and saved Carrot and the other mink (forgot her name).

He was needed in many places. This is like playing an online game like, say, Counter Strike, and having one of the players not start moving until after two minutes into a round. He may be an extremely good player but by the time he starts playing he very well might have been the last person standing on his team.

So yeah, I hope that to compensate he at least gets one of those pre-TS moments in which he saves the day with some unexpected plan. Though not even that would make me like how he has been handled on Onigashima.

 

[King Moe]

I feel like I was the spear or arrow head that started this whole Sanji is weak...& complained night & day about WCI & the f&$?!ing cake. With how disappointing it was.

Then comes along The Stans and calls everybody a Sanji hater. Lmfao. & actually the main complaint was ODA isn’t showing Sanji love. It was ODA must hate Sanji because he’s not cool anymore.

Sanji just isn’t as cool as he use to be. He doesn’t get many or any fights anymore. His gags are becoming too much because theirs a lack of balance

Nah, just your headcannon especially if guys taking him not fighting female enemies as thinking he won't do anything else is illogical when we see this before in Enies Lobby. I guess Oda has issue with him then if he give him a moment to come back to fight Jabra and change tide of battle. Plus your side get defensive if mention Zoro not earning certain feats which have concrete evidence even to the point you don't say Kidd and Law are not above him when they are.

WCI make sense along with Cake as Oda even defended it in SBS. Thinking Oda has issue on character he worked on since debut on issues, is dumb to think that way especially only issue we can say is just we haven't seen full fight from him in awhile, everything else he does have cool moments and action. Your opinion doesn't really speak fanbase especially he isn't only Strawhat who hasn't a full fight as well as others like Zoro and the rest until this arc.

Your acting more on petty biased than actual critic. When we know Sanji is going to face someone stronger and be on tide of the battle on this, but you need patience to see that given OP been like that.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 26, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 26, 2021 ---

I'm sure Sanji will have a proper fight soon this arc.

The problem is that, sure, storywise there's only been like an hour or two of battles but for us it's been already more than a year and a half since they were heading to Onigashima. The problem is the pacing. "Soon" is months of real life waiting for it to happen. Hell, I feel like that about Zoro as well. Zoro has gotten some very, very sweet feats against Kaido as expected, but I still miss seeing some cool 1vs1 fight that pushes him to the limit to win. He had tons of those pre-TS and post-TS we barely saw him bleed until the Kaido fight).

I didn't mind Sanji's actions on WCI. He was pretty cool there even if he didn't get a major fight. Compared to WCI, in Fishman Island, Punzhazard and Dressrosa he was just sidelined. In those last two arcs he was used as fodder to hype the villains (Vergo and Doflamingo) which is a terrible treatment for such a character.

I'm more annoyed by Sanji's actions on Onigashima mostly because he:
- Fell into a trap that he should have avoided with CoO, at which he's supposed to be good at.
- He chose not to protect Nami and Usopp from two opponents they couldn't beat, sentencing them to death if it weren't for Tama, because bodyguarding Luffy to save his haki was more important than protecting others. He then chose to go save some random woman over escorting Luffy. It's a mix of out of character and extremely random behaviour.
- After falling for the trap, he then chose to stay there to fight the men instead of running away into a more favorable battlefield. Everywhere else on Onigashima the ratio of male to female opponents was overwhelmingly male, yet he chose to stay in the one room full of opponents he couldn't beat, even thinking something like "I should run away, but this is heaven".
- He got captured not because "he couldn't fight women", but because he chose not to run away from them despite showing he had the leisurely to move around freely for a long while by defeating the men.

Sanji is very strong and I'm sure he will defeat an All-Star, but his character portrayal on Onigashima is already ruined for me and as I just explained it's not exactly because he doesn't hit women. Had he not fallen for the trap he could have been useful elsewere. He could have saved Nami and Usopp ages ago or he could have helped Marco against King and Queen already or he could have beaten up Jack or he could have ran into Orochi, or Kanjuro, or he could have defeated Perospero and saved Carrot and the other mink (forgot her name).

He was needed in many places. This is like playing an online game like, say, Counter Strike, and having one of the players not start moving until after two minutes into a round. He may be an extremely good player but by the time he starts playing he very well might have been the last person standing on his team.

So yeah, I hope that to compensate he at least gets one of those pre-TS moments in which he saves the day with some unexpected plan. Though not even that would make me like how he has been handled on Onigashima.

I think your overreacting on your side, dude. He handle off Vergo and still was active even after Doffy fight, so wouldn't say hype tool or at least not like on Zoro side this arc on Wano with enemies using Zoro has hype tool for them. Though I do agree that we need more of the full fight that we used to see in pre-timeskip more especially it been Luffy with most development in NW on fighting compare to the rest.

Also your points are moot on Sanji as he only went there in case a woman was being harmed which that been his character. Even if it was a trapped, he had to make sure and why would Sanji be protector of Nami and Usopp? It is illogical for him to fight their own battles especially Ulti is a woman so he not helping Nami in that fight and trust her like how he trust Robin to face her own fight with Maria. Crew while times does protect each other, they also trust one another to face their own battles given they can't just always have someone to fight them as that is development on everyone.

Also what you mean he 'choose' to stay? He didn't choose to stay, he got captured after beating male side in the way as we don't know exactly how it went, but he still got caught. It's same reason with Kalifia situation as not like he didn't try, but he still can't harm women. Plus it not easy just move away when you have female enemies around on the floor and one of them have sticky threads you have to break through on.

Should be like that given we seen this pattern on Enies Lobby and it wasn't only arc on that. Nothing ruined on character when we saw it on pre-timeskip. You need to have patience and see how it goes and the reason he went there is because he heard a woman being 'assaulted' so if you were to be in same situation, you will know you would do same thing just to check given Beast Pirates can use hostages on their side. Just because he was in female enemy side doesn't mean he won't do anything else. That type of talk is why your not trying to see overall on how character or arc goes as it isn't big issue as you made it up to be. I agree on him getting more fights, but he still shown to be helpful and useful on his side and even in this arc.

He is more likely going to face King or Queen in the arc given the hints on them and be on the tide on battle. Plus you can't denied enemy did research on alliance and reason why they put traps around on their side and this was one of them which can't be help, but doesn't mean Sanji won't do anything else or it was wrong given he still was helping on that side and development was to show he can accept help from those in his crew too. Your holding onto something that isn't big issue as much your talking about here.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Nah oda has definitely done sanji dirty in the new world I'm comparison when it comes to being a dominant combatant and strategist
That's why the oda hates sanji thing came from
It'll be lie to gaslight fans and call it head canon
When sanji was really cool and useful pre ts and not so much post timeskip
Who has sanji fought and defeated ? Who has he significantly outsmarted
I think it's fair that some fans don't like how he's fallen
We've had literally 450 chapters a whole ass decade of waiting for sanji to shine in the new world , he hasn't had one dominant showing
Heck Luffy is dominant every arc or very impressive
Zoro absolutely destroyed pica, clashed with fujitora, like even before this oda has had zoro looking like a respected badass when it comes to strength , he defeated brain washed killer gyukimaru and he made monet shit herself , he's been a badass and the only strawhat that hasn't been overwhelmed not once in the new world

You can't say it's head cannon when oda statically
Heck sanji post timeskip is used more of a jobber to show how strong the opponent is now , with vergo and then doflamingo

 

[King Moe]

Nah oda has definitely done sanji dirty in the new world I'm comparison when it comes to being a dominant combatant and strategist
That's why the oda hates sanji thing came from
It'll be lie to gaslight fans and call it head canon
When sanji was really cool and useful pre ts and not so much post timeskip
Who has sanji fought and defeated ? Who has he significantly outsmarted
I think it's fair that some fans don't like how he's fallen
We've had literally 450 chapters a whole ass decade of waiting for sanji to shine in the new world , he hasn't had one dominant showing
Heck Luffy is dominant every arc or very impressive
Zoro absolutely destroyed pica, clashed with fujitora, like even before this oda has had zoro looking like a respected badass when it comes to strength , he defeated brain washed killer gyukimaru and he made monet shit herself , he's been a badass and the only strawhat that hasn't been overwhelmed not once in the new world

You can't say it's head cannon when oda statically
Heck sanji post timeskip is used more of a jobber to show how strong the opponent is now , with vergo and then doflamingo

If he hates him on doing women side to him, then he must have hate him in pre-timeskip since he been using women as his weakness since even then which isn't the case. The only issue you can say is his fight history, but he been overall helpful and useful in the arcs.

It's not to gaslight or headcannon when it is true on fighting is the issue, not so much what he shown.

Sanji has cool moments in FI, PH, Dressora before going to Zou and have moments there, WCI, and growing in Wano.

Sanji beaten Watdsumai the giant fishmen who could tank an attack from YV like Oven, fought off Vergo while nerfed, shown feats on Bobbin, Oven, and Daifuku while beating T6H without trying and tanking and blocking King's attack while outsmarting 2 YCs who wanted to go after Momo.

Not really fallen as your ignoring good points over minor 'bad points' which aren't even that bad points given your complaining on female and him not choosing to harm them and his fight issues. Anything else have shown he is more helpful and need work on fight history which he isn't only Strawhat with that issue given Luffy got most fights in NW over everyone and they were challenging. Though your not reading much if you think he hasn't been dominated on any enemies as he has.

For Zoro. Lol Pica is a fodder enemy. How is that challenge? The fight wasn't anything compare to pre-timeskip fights and Fujitora was going easy on him, not much anything there and I wouldn't say facing Kamazou and Gyukimaro is good point as that was big moment fans got upset after he fainted to nerfed enemy. Also monet doesn't really give much of serious enemy and fight wasn't anything pre-timeskip either. Actually Zoro has his moments as he was captured by New Fishman Pirates, got knockout by Yeti Brothers, couldn't cut Birdcage, and Carrot got better in their clash, and Wano while he did his best in Kaido fight, we can't ignore he was used hype tool on this arc from Hawkins, Kyoshiro, Kamazou, Gyukimaro, Apoo, and now Kaido. He didn't beat no one except have tie with Kamazou, but rest kinda make enemies look strong compare to him.

Not really. Vergo was back and forth fight while Doffy is only one he couldn't beat, but no one wasn't beating him given Law also couldn't himself and Zoro couldn't cut his Birdcage. Only Luffy would beat him, so no shame in that and your picking and choosing to ignore moments as your focusing too much on bad when they aren't even that much or even 'bad' to begin with.

 

[albertwv]

Law doesnt have COC. Stop with the headcannon.
You hype up Sanji but refuse to acknowledge any of Zolo's feats. Zolo defeated Killer and Apoo. Sanji hasnt defeated any Supernova yet. Will he? Yes I think Sanji can but so far he hasnt.
Thats the difference between you and I, I bring in manga facts you bring in your made up facts. When asked for proof you cannot show it because it doesnt exist. You refuse to see the truth. That is what we call insane.

 

[XXGenesis]

I'm sure Sanji will have a proper fight soon this arc.

The problem is that, sure, storywise there's only been like an hour or two of battles but for us it's been already more than a year and a half since they were heading to Onigashima. The problem is the pacing. "Soon" is months of real life waiting for it to happen. Hell, I feel like that about Zoro as well. Zoro has gotten some very, very sweet feats against Kaido as expected, but I still miss seeing some cool 1vs1 fight that pushes him to the limit to win. He had tons of those pre-TS and post-TS we barely saw him bleed until the Kaido fight).

I didn't mind Sanji's actions on WCI. He was pretty cool there even if he didn't get a major fight. Compared to WCI, in Fishman Island, Punzhazard and Dressrosa he was just sidelined. In those last two arcs he was used as fodder to hype the villains (Vergo and Doflamingo) which is a terrible treatment for such a character.

I'm more annoyed by Sanji's actions on Onigashima mostly because he:
- Fell into a trap that he should have avoided with CoO, at which he's supposed to be good at.
- He chose not to protect Nami and Usopp from two opponents they couldn't beat, sentencing them to death if it weren't for Tama, because bodyguarding Luffy to save his haki was more important than protecting others. He then chose to go save some random woman over escorting Luffy. It's a mix of out of character and extremely random behaviour.
- After falling for the trap, he then chose to stay there to fight the men instead of running away into a more favorable battlefield. Everywhere else on Onigashima the ratio of male to female opponents was overwhelmingly male, yet he chose to stay in the one room full of opponents he couldn't beat, even thinking something like "I should run away, but this is heaven".
- He got captured not because "he couldn't fight women", but because he chose not to run away from them despite showing he had the leisurely to move around freely for a long while by defeating the men.

Sanji is very strong and I'm sure he will defeat an All-Star, but his character portrayal on Onigashima is already ruined for me and as I just explained it's not exactly because he doesn't hit women. Had he not fallen for the trap he could have been useful elsewere. He could have saved Nami and Usopp ages ago or he could have helped Marco against King and Queen already or he could have beaten up Jack or he could have ran into Orochi, or Kanjuro, or he could have defeated Perospero and saved Carrot and the other mink (forgot her name).

He was needed in many places. This is like playing an online game like, say, Counter Strike, and having one of the players not start moving until after two minutes into a round. He may be an extremely good player but by the time he starts playing he very well might have been the last person standing on his team.

So yeah, I hope that to compensate he at least gets one of those pre-TS moments in which he saves the day with some unexpected plan. Though not even that would make me like how he has been handled on Onigashima.

Sanji’s characterization during WCI was super annoying to me. His psychological chains just popped up out of nowhere, for everything we seen the crew go through...Why does he fell like Vinsnoke family is too much for the Crew to deal with??!?! Or even asking for help from his crew. To just be handicap every time someone is threatened..

Non-resistance against Capone, really pissed me off.
Sanji attacking Luffy; More than pissed me off.
Sanji wanting to marry pudding, his reaction to her future betrayal pathetic.

Him saving Luffy; Nothing kool about it; His Brothers is the reason why he escaped with Luffy; Why couldn’t Oda at least have him do that

Im not even paying attention to Sanji much anymore in onigashima.

We got Page One & Sanji just throws on his suit and doesn’t finish the fight...:Like what!!!

X Drake no sell his attack & pimp smacked him.....

Thank God he save Momonosuke...
Then we have Black Moriah B.S...
So yea Sanji is a bum until he’s kool again lol

 

[Nie Li]

Sanji’s characterization during WCI was super annoying to me. His psychological chains just popped up out of nowhere, for everything we seen the crew go through...Why does he fell like Vinsnoke family is too much for the Crew to deal with??!?! Or even asking for help from his crew. To just be handicap every time someone is threatened..

Non-resistance against Capone, really pissed me off.
Sanji attacking Luffy; More than pissed me off.
Sanji wanting to marry pudding, his reaction to her future betrayal pathetic.

Him saving Luffy; Nothing kool about it; His Brothers is the reason why he escaped with Luffy; Why couldn’t Oda at least have him do that

Im not even paying attention to Sanji much anymore in onigashima.

We got Page One & Sanji just throws on his suit and doesn’t finish the fight...:Like what!!!

X Drake no sell his attack & pimp smacked him.....

Thank God he save Momonosuke...
Then we have Black Moriah B.S...
So yea Sanji is a bum until he’s kool again lol

Was it not because of Big Mom and not the Vinsmokes that he surrendered himself to Capone? Either way I do agree it's pretty weird since they were planning on fighting Big Mom's crew soon anyway.

At least he saved his brothers which in turn saved him and Luffy, I guess?