One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

With YC2 we really haven’t seen any go all out , be it smoothie , for me in the whitebeard pirates I think vista is
Maybe with queen we will get a good gauge

I would agree that actual authority wise in the beast pirates queen and king do seem on par

 

[XXGenesis]

Since the Oz fight; Yes this is the closest Sanji & Zoro have been.

I personally Like the rivalry when it’s this close. As The Formula is, Zoro will appear to be on Luffy’s lv which Luffy will prove he’s not; & Sanji will appear to be equal to Zoro, where Zoro will show there is a small gap. Main Villain;Right hand Man; Left hand man.

All in All; I like to see Sanji kick ass. I personally don’t care about the random power up in between arcs; But I can understand, & will always complain what happened before hand; Because it was ridiculous to not see Sanji get a good win for so long until Wano;

Where we are teased by his RS; which we never got to see used in a full fight, Sanji abandons it; Sanji even begins to awaken his augmentations, we’ll have to wait & see it that remains in effect…Hell Memories return….

Sanji is impressive preforming on YC2 lv unlike earlier in the story

 

[albertwv]

I mentioned before, Sanji seem to be the only SH outside Luffy who has shown us progressing by defeating/fighting difficult opponents in the NW. From Vergo>Doffy>Vinsmokes>Oven/Daifuku>Page One>Queen
This shows me that Sanji was below top VA level to Top VA to YC3 to YC2.

Zolo on the other hand has only had small skirmishes and 1 actual long battle (Pica), so it was kinda impossible to accurately gauge his strength.
Monet>Fujitora>Pica>Hawkins>Killer>Denjiro>Apoo>Kaido>King.
Its all over the place, but since there is a clear pattern of Zolo>Sanji in every arc, then we can assume Zolo was Top VA level>YC3>YC1 from Dressrosa to Wano to Onigashima. The way he handled Pica who IMO is VA level to the way he easily handled Hawkins and Killer who are Top VA level/F6 level and finally to where is now fighting Kaido and King currently that places him at YC1.

Btw, VAs are all over the place thanks to Maynard and Smoker who seem to be rookie VAs compared to the MF VAs, so I classify them as 2 levels of VAs: Top VA and VA, maybe using VA1 and VA2 to signify the power difference would make more sense, IDK im spouting nonsense now.

 

[GL_Nova]

Okay... but what are you basing any of this on?

He's got soru and he's stopped a rocket. There isn't anything to go on to say he is strong enough to fight an officer or low commander

He doesn't have a single combat feat making worthy of fighting a New World threat.

I mean he’s gone from a nobody to a Marine Vice-Admiral hasn’t he? The rank they choose the Admiral’s from?? He’s famous as the hero of the incident that made Law a warlord in the first place. An he’s strong enough to give Drake orders and have earned his respect. That’s literally 2 other Supernova that Oda has used as benchmark’s for his own growth. There’s literally every sign that he’ll get to live it up as the actual challenge to Luffy we all expected him to be. An all he really needs is a good fight against Luffy, not to really win. I don’t get why people are so butthurt over that man’s shown growth.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 11, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 11, 2021 ---

I dont agree with this logic but I understand it. Are you claiming anyone who fought 2 Yonko are automatically stronger than those who havent? In the rooftop fight, we only saw Luffy and Zolo do any damage to the Yonko(Kaido). People initially claimed that anyone on the rooftop was at least YC1. Which we found out was not true seeing how Zolo is fighting on par with King.
Truthfully, I find it hard to even believe Kid or Law are YC1, since we never saw them fight anyone

That’s not true. Kaido acknowledged Kidd, Killer, and Law as managing to damage him. An the latter managed to make BM acknowledge them too. So I don’t see where your judgement is coming from, since she laughed at the commanders.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 11, 2021 ---

Zoro did More on the roof than Kidd and Law and He's struggling with a YC1. He still has to overcome a YC1. Law also got mid diffed by Doflamingo So there's no way he was YC1 before. After these spoilers , Even after these spoilers still not convinced Law and Kidd are YC1. Their definitely above YC2, But there aren't any YC1's I'd take Law or Kidd over in a 1v1 currently.

Zoro is literally only standing because of a miracle drug, he’s not 100% right now. (Not that he ever seems to be by big fight time)

 

[Fox666]

I mean he’s gone from a nobody to a Marine Vice-Admiral hasn’t he? The rank they choose the Admiral’s from?? He’s famous as the hero of the incident that made Law a warlord in the first place. An he’s strong enough to give Drake orders and have earned his respect. That’s literally 2 other Supernova that Oda has used as benchmark’s for his own growth. There’s literally every sign that he’ll get to live it up as the actual challenge to Luffy we all expected him to be. An all he really needs is a good fight against Luffy, not to really win. I don’t get why people are so butthurt over that man’s shown growth.

Koby was impressed by Kyros' Haki, so it seems very unlikely he would be comparable to Law or Drake.

When did Koby gave Drake orders? As Drake's contact, he seems too casual to be his superior.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I mean he’s gone from a nobody to a Marine Vice-Admiral hasn’t he?

Absolutely not. He is a Marine Captain

 

[GL_Nova]

Zoro did More on the roof than Kidd and Law and He's struggling with a YC1. He still has to overcome a YC1. Law also got mid diffed by Doflamingo So there's no way he was YC1 before. After these spoilers , Even after these spoilers still not convinced Law and Kidd are YC1. Their definitely above YC2, But there aren't any YC1's I'd take Law or Kidd over in a 1v1 currently.

Zoro is literally only standing because of a miracle drug, he’s not 100% right now. (Not that he ever seems to be by big fight time)

You're right people grow stronger after arcs. Law got defeated by Doffy YC3 in Dressrosa. There's just no proof that he became this strong YC1, no training no explanation of whatsoever, so for readers who like logic (and dont say there is no logic in OP, this aint Fairy Tail) we want to see consistency. It's hard to imagine Law got that strong now. The rooftop fight was downplayed by Oda to make the power levels in the story make more sense. He hyped up the Yonko and now we see 5 Yc3-YC1 people able to fend off and somewhat harm them. It downplayed the Yonko in my eyes. I would understand if it was only 1 Yonko but 2? Ridiculous.

But yea, we saw how Zolo was the only one outside of Luffy actually damage Kaido. Law did to Kaido and BM what maybe Raizo did to Kaido or the rest of the 9RS damage did to Kaido. It was nothing to Kaido unlike Luffy and Zolo's attacks.

Oda wants Law and Kid to be with Luffy but hes doing a bad job at it. We literally had no idea how strong Kid was, he managed to hurt a Sweet Commander we have no idea which one, my best guess was Snack. Back to Law, last time we saw him go all out was with Doffy and he got trashed but now he is able to damage a Yonko, bullshit.
Oda shouldve had build up fights for Law, Zolo, and Kid and maybe even Luffy. Not this bullshit imaginary power up asspull. The only build up fight we saw in Wano was Sanji vs Page One and we didnt even see the outcome...

Show me any training before the timeskip? What’s the logic you speak of bro?

 

[Pirate Queen]

Zoro was at 100% by the time his fight with King started. The drug healed him up, come on...

 

[albertwv]

I mean he’s gone from a nobody to a Marine Vice-Admiral hasn’t he? The rank they choose the Admiral’s from?? He’s famous as the hero of the incident that made Law a warlord in the first place. An he’s strong enough to give Drake orders and have earned his respect. That’s literally 2 other Supernova that Oda has used as benchmark’s for his own growth. There’s literally every sign that he’ll get to live it up as the actual challenge to Luffy we all expected him to be. An all he really needs is a good fight against Luffy, not to really win. I don’t get why people are so butthurt over that man’s shown growth.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 11, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 11, 2021 ---

That’s not true. Kaido acknowledged Kidd, Killer, and Law as managing to damage him. An the latter managed to make BM acknowledge them too. So I don’t see where your judgement is coming from, since she laughed at the commanders.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 11, 2021 ---

Zoro is literally only standing because of a miracle drug, he’s not 100% right now. (Not that he ever seems to be by big fight time)

You tried so hard to disprove us but in reality you are using headcannon.
Coby is not VA level, he is a Marine Captain
Coby never gave any orders to Drake, if anything Drake > Coby, that relationship gives no indication of how strong Coby is
Coby was part of the incident that made the WG consider Law as a Warlord, but that doesnt prove Coby fought Law or gives any indication of his power and finally, Coby thinking Kyros was strong, who I think is rather weak compared to VAs or Yonko Executives, does not empower Coby at all.

Now what Kid, Killer and Law managed to do to Dragon Kaido, was the same what the 9RS did to him, what Raizo, Kiku, Izo, Kawatmasu damaged him. He screamed out in pain, but no damage like Zolo scarred him or Luffy's CoC attacks.
People like to overhype Kid, Killers and Laws attack vs the Yonko but honestly they were nothing.

 

[GL_Nova]

Ehhh ace was very talented but that was pre-TS sabo , sabo didn’t stagnate , he should have gotten much stronger over 2 years
I don’t think sabo showed anything special that makes him so above YC3 by much
Is his DF mastery above cracker doflamingo and cracker ? Nope
Is he more durable than jack ? Not to me
I think he hovered from yc3 to YC2 imo but not easy yc2

What makes you think he isn’t comparable?

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 12, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 12, 2021 ---

You tried so hard to disprove us but in reality you are using headcannon.
Coby is not VA level, he is a Marine Captain
Coby never gave any orders to Drake, if anything Drake > Coby, that relationship gives no indication of how strong Coby is
Coby was part of the incident that made the WG consider Law as a Warlord, but that doesnt prove Coby fought Law or gives any indication of his power and finally, Coby thinking Kyros was strong, who I think is rather weak compared to VAs or Yonko Executives, does not empower Coby at all.

Now what Kid, Killer and Law managed to do to Dragon Kaido, was the same what the 9RS did to him, what Raizo, Kiku, Izo, Kawatmasu damaged him. He screamed out in pain, but no damage like Zolo scarred him or Luffy's CoC attacks.
People like to overhype Kid, Killers and Laws attack vs the Yonko but honestly they were nothing.

Tried hard, bro that’s not even 5 minutes typing. An based on what i read, im not the only one to read whatever mistranslation you guys were discussing.

An what order was Coby given? It’s Drake that was calling to report in to Coby, and handlers quite regularly out rank their charges.

An as I saw plenty point out, our characters acknowledge the strength of weaker combatants constantly throughout the series. Him recognizing somebody who was able to beat one of Doffy’s executives doesn’t in any way imply he’s weaker than he is. It has literally no bearing on his ranking at all.

No, they are entirely different. They managed minor stabs then got stomped. The Supernova made Kaido and Big Mom acknowledge them as actual threats to their thrones and deal with them as such lol.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 12, 2021 ---

Zoro was at 100% by the time his fight with King started. The drug healed him up, come on...

He’s not 100% by definition, his wounds didn’t disappear, he just can’t feel them so he can keep fighting.

 

[Ricko]

Ehhh ace was very talented but that was pre-TS sabo , sabo didn’t stagnate , he should have gotten much stronger over 2 years
I don’t think sabo showed anything special that makes him so above YC3 by much
Is his DF mastery above cracker doflamingo and cracker ? Nope
Is he more durable than jack ? Not to me
I think he hovered from yc3 to YC2 imo but not easy yc2

Sabo just stomped with no-dif Burgess who must be comparable to Jack at least...
Shown the most powerfull feat with advanced armement... Don't fear to fight Amiral...
He's easily YC1 at very least... I think he's more Marco tier...

Ace was stronger than Sabo by a small gap when they were younger.
If he was still alive, he would be as formidable as Sabo, maybe even more with CoC coating, on par with Yamato (that we all recognize insanly powerfull).

 

[Pirate Queen]

He’s not 100% by definition, his wounds didn’t disappear, he just can’t feel them so he can keep fighting.

This is headcanon. Back this up

"Ultra REGENERATIVE effects.." per the manga

Regenerative... not anesthetic.

You are factually incorrect and are just using headcannon

 

[LadyVados]

You're not fooling anyone Nik87, aka LadyVados. You can change your name or create an alternate accound but BS you spew gives you away.

Nik thinks Kaido > Mihawk

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 12, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 12, 2021 ---

you can't see zoro struggle to fight king what better with that marco is more better handling both queen and king.

So what if he's struggling, he hasn't been KOed 4 times

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 12, 2021 ---

If Sanji stomps Queen next chapter, what tier will that put him at ?

YC1+ ?

 

[XXGenesis]

The issue is. Oda made Zoro very comparable to Luffy for so long, & Sanji seemed to be on a tier not comparable to Zoro.

I’m talking about perception. Luffy grew through his rough battles, & training to learn advance forms of Haki…..Zoro just didn’t struggle and whipped everybody, then got a stronger Sword & trained with it…Sanji had clashes and wasn’t shown to be superior to any other Pirates with his abilities..until now.

So after time skip I would have to say Luffy G4 was YC3

Zoro was YC4.

Sanji was executive lv;

Oda should have seriously had Sanji defeat/beat up on Daifuku or Oven.

Because what Oda is saying Sanji got his boost from wearing the RS twice.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I disagree. Portrayal had a lot to do with why people view Sanji so inferior but the context was always there for Zoro and Sanji to be comparable

 

[XXGenesis]

Zoro was more comparable to Luffy. Which he can be but for way too long. He was leaving Sanji in the dust.

Sanji’s portrayal was bad in terms of fighting. Vergo was portrayed to be out of his league, as to why Law defeated Vergo after having difficulty;

His Showings against Doffy was good; I wouldn’t expect more in that situation; His Showings against Judge was good also; Only highlighted his CoA isn’t strong enough to block blades; His showings against Oven was good also, however damage was light, Oven was shown to have high endurance. His Showings during the wedding & escape were casual & mediocre blocking Daifuku isn’t impressive, that’s minimum expectations for me. He couldn’t escape with Luffy, IMO he was just rather slow, as to why Yuen caught him & why he was getting hit by bullets.

Sanji doesn’t get a highlight until Wano; Best highlight is against Queen. Missing a lot of screen time messes up your average…So Zoro has plentiful portrayals of looking like a badass ass & kicking ass;While Sanji only has a few.

 

[M3J]

Granted that we've seen Zoro barely be challenged in terms of strength, but have we seen Sanji lose? I feel like the readers are forgetting that they both have different fighting styles, and that Zoro's swords give him advantages against opponents. Zoro could slice Bon Clay for example, and take him out, but Sanji wouldn't be able to deal with Mr. 1 and his fruit power without using knives (though I doubt he'd have been capable of damaging steel back then) or something. Actually, neither would Luffy for that matter. However, Sanji and Zoro would both lose to Croocodile whereas Luffy was able to survive and win because of various reasons, like Robin and his fruit power (dunno if it's why a drop of water restored him).

Dunno about now because of haki, but back then Sanji most likely wouldn't be able to beat Zoro's opponents while Zoro could beat Sanji's, mainly thanks to swords, if not solely because of that. However, both could be on an even level with Luffy and still lose to Luffy's opponents like Enel and Moria solely because they don't have his fruit power, which helped him be resistant to lightning and I think take in 100s or 1000s of shadows.

It's also why I think it's dumb as fuck to keep using power scales and comparing power when it's more than that. I'm sure everyone thought Usopp would be one-shot or lose easily to Luffy, but he fared decently against Luffy before he lost simply because of his fighting style and brain. Without knowledge of her power, Sugar could beat most people just by touch, and she almost beat Luffy by that until Usopp scared her shitless, even though he wasn't fighting or even paying attention to her.

 

[Pirate Queen]

The gap between Luffy and Zoro is wider than the gap between Sanji and Zoro, as of chapter 1031.

I don't think Zoro has even gotten close to Luffy since the time skip.

Luffy has been getting drastically stronger in each arc and Zoro hasn't show any advanced forms of haki, no new techniques and his biggest upgrade was a sword with magic properties being handed to him.

Luffy has gotten G4, Future Sight, Ryou, Internal Damage Ryou, and Advanced CoC.

Just G4 by itself puts a massive divide between Zoro and Luffy.

And now Luffy is fighting Kaido in base, equally.

Oda puts Sanji in far more complicated situations that he has put Zoro in. Zoro always gets convenient situations thrown at him.

Pica ending up being a run away coward, Sanji gets no such luck with his opponents and got thrown up against Doflamingo.

Zoro clashes with Fujitora... Fujitora just happens to have no malice towards them and just casually leaves.

Etc.

It's not a big deal at this point, but to pretend like Zoro doesn't get coddled while Sanji is put is terrible situations is a fact.

Zoro would have been just as helpless against Doflamingo for instance.

There is a massive double standard when it comes to those two but even so the context of Sanji being stronger than he was portrayed was always there.

And now Oda is just throwing upgrades at Sanji just for the hell of it. Exoskeleton, hyper regeneration, increased attack/defense, possible Lunarian DNA.

Zoro and Sanji have never been closer as of 1031 that's for sure.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 12, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 12, 2021 ---

No wonder Oda had Sanji destroy the Raid suit... can't make Sanji stronger than Zoro after all.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

What makes you think he isn’t comparable?

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 12, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 12, 2021 ---

Tried hard, bro that’s not even 5 minutes typing. An based on what i read, im not the only one to read whatever mistranslation you guys were discussing.

An what order was Coby given? It’s Drake that was calling to report in to Coby, and handlers quite regularly out rank their charges.

An as I saw plenty point out, our characters acknowledge the strength of weaker combatants constantly throughout the series. Him recognizing somebody who was able to beat one of Doffy’s executives doesn’t in any way imply he’s weaker than he is. It has literally no bearing on his ranking at all.

No, they are entirely different. They managed minor stabs then got stomped. The Supernova made Kaido and Big Mom acknowledge them as actual threats to their thrones and deal with them as such lol.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 12, 2021 ---

He’s not 100% by definition, his wounds didn’t disappear, he just can’t feel them so he can keep fighting.

Sabo just stomped with no-dif Burgess who must be comparable to Jack at least...
Shown the most powerfull feat with advanced armement... Don't fear to fight Amiral...
He's easily YC1 at very least... I think he's more Marco tier...

Ace was stronger than Sabo by a small gap when they were younger.
If he was still alive, he would be as formidable as Sabo, maybe even more with CoC coating, on par with Yamato (that we all recognize insanly powerfull).

I mis typed I meant I don’t think ace showed anything that made him significantly above Yc3
I’m of the impresssion that sabo is of the YC1 to YC1+ tier

 

[AmitDS]

I disagree with this notion that Oda made Zoro close to Luffy at any point in time recently. When did this happen? When Luffy fought DD, Zoro fought Pica. Before that Luffy fought Hordy and Zoro, Hyouzou. Pre timeskip how did this go? Luffy fought Crocodile, Lucci, Enel, Moria and who did Zoro fight? Mr. 1, Kaku, Ohm... to list a few examples. Now Luffy was not allowed to fight any of Kaido's YC and is fighting Kaido while Zoro tapped out of fighting Kaido and is struggling to fight King, an arc and a few powerups after Luffy fought Cracker and Katakuri. So I'm asking again, when and where have Zoro and Luffy been shown to be close powerwise, recently.

This biased fandumb echo chamber has resulted in people actually believing the coping and ignoring common sense. Instead of seeing Zoro as a stoic, 'badass' swordsman who is Luffy's right hand, people see him as Luffy's equal who should be captain instead due to how cool and serious he is lol which is not the message Oda is sending.

Oda has Luffy as the future PK and Zoro and Sanji as his 2 wings. It's clear as day what the truth and Oda's intentions are. And it has been for a while. After Zoro beat Pica, Sanji skirmished with Oven and Daifuku and then Page One, before Zoro skirmishes with Hawkins and Sanji with Drake IIRC. It's not like Zoro was constantly getting fights while Sanji was doing absolutely nothing. Portrayal matters, hype matters and of course feats matter. That's more than enough IMO to gauge that current Sanji can logically be around King and Queen's level. If Zoro and Sanji were comparable pre time skip and they both trained for 2 years then it's not rocket science. Sanji skirmishing with Vergo while Zoro got a full fight with Pica is not supposed to be seen as a bad feat for Sanji. If people use their heads and take in EVERYTHING Oda provides for us then it isn't hard to know that Sanji, Scopper, Smoothie, Queen & Jozu for example are not far off and are on the same general level as Zoro, Rayleigh, Katakuri, King and Marco. And now here we are with Zoro and Sanji fighting opponents on the same level and struggling and people are acting shocked and brand new.

Notice, the people who always viewed them as rivals and comparable are not surprised and don't have to try to cope with Zoro vs King and Sanji vs Queen, only the people who thought that Zoro >/= Luffy >>>>>>>>>> Sanji. Now why is that? I wonder.