One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Katakuri literally said Luffy was his equal at one point during their fight. Your literary choosing to ignore facts at this point to push a narrative that does not coincide with the manga.

It's hard for people because you just making things up and expect people to go along with it maybe? Just a thought.

Just because your structure your opinion well doesn't mean it makes any canonical sense

You mean when he said that near the climax of the fight????

 

[Pirate Queen]

You mean when he said that near the climax of the fight????

No, because afte katakuri said that there were still fighting for HOURS!

Chapter 894 showed them fighting for over 2 hours AFTER KATAKURI MADE THE CLAIM THAT LUFFY WAS HIS EQUAL

The time passing was literally the point of the entire chapter.

This argument on its face is canonical incorrect

Go reread chapter 894

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 20, 2022, Original Post Date: Jan 20, 2022 ---

You know whats a hot take now?

More and more people putting Luffy over Mihawk and that is wild to me.

Depending on if Luffy awakens ore has a new more efficient gear I may have to adjust my top 30

 

[grey matter]

No, because afte katakuri said that there were still fighting for HOURS!

Chapter 894 showed them fighting for over 2 hours AFTER KATAKURI MADE THE CLAIM THAT LUFFY WAS HIS EQUAL

The time passing was literally the point of the entire chapter.

This argument on its face is canonical incorrect

Go reread chapter 894

I went ahead and checked.

Actually, you're right. I stand corrected

But it's off screen too lol, which was kinda my original point.
The only way this BS of "he fought for x hours" is and can be done is through off screen fights.
Cause it's ridiculous that characters can just straight up keep getting punched for hours straight lol, unless you have abilities which straight up allow you to do so (hence me pointing out Marco, King, Bartolomeo).
Oda knows he can't show it and make it believable, when fights amongst even top tiers like WB vs Akainu ends in like 5-10 mins

You know whats a hot take now?

More and more people putting Luffy over Mihawk and that is wild to me.

Depending on if Luffy awakens ore has a new more efficient gear I may have to adjust my top 30

Whats your top 30?

 

[Pirate Queen]

I went ahead and checked.

Actually, you're right. I stand corrected

But it's off screen too lol, which was kinda my original point.
The only way this BS of "he fought for x hours" is and can be done is through off screen fights.
Cause it's ridiculous that characters can just straight up keep getting punched for hours straight lol, unless you have abilities which straight up allow you to do so (hence me pointing out Marco, King, Bartolomeo).
Oda knows he can't show it and make it believable, when fights amongst even top tiers like WB vs Akainu ends in like 5-10 mins




Whats your top 30?

I put it somewhere on here. I'll find it but I'm at work and covid is no fucking joke. Our e.r. is slammed.

 

[I Am Atomic]

Chapter 894 showed them fighting for over 2 hours AFTER KATAKURI MADE THE CLAIM THAT LUFFY WAS HIS EQUAL

I love this. Go read the manga is the best flex to pull

Cause it's ridiculous that characters can just straight up keep getting punched for hours straight lol

Luffy? That whole fight was Luffy getting punched for hours. Katakuri himself said he wasn't underestimating Luffy.
Only mistake Katakuri did was thinking he did kill Luffy.

Anyway, Pirate Queen showed how Katakuri could fight for hours while King couldn't

I do agree with Oda's inconsistencies. But you cannot bring anything from the manga to prove your claim. That's my point.

I could also say "why can't you understand my point smh". But I respect everyone's opinion.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I love this. Go read the manga is the best flex to pull




Luffy? That whole fight was Luffy getting punched for hours. Katakuri himself said he wasn't underestimating Luffy.
Only mistake Katakuri did was thinking he did kill Luffy.

Anyway, Pirate Queen showed how Katakuri could fight for hours while King couldn't

I do agree with Oda's inconsistencies. But you cannot bring anything from the manga to prove your claim. That's my point.

I could also say "why can't you understand my point smh". But I respect everyone's opinion.

"Read the Manga" clears up 75% of these discussions but when one keeps moving the goal post when they are presented with counter evidence, it makes these discussions unnecessarily long

Katakuri can be argued that he never lost to Luffy, making him the only YC1 to have fought another YC1 equally in a 1v1, and fought to completion.

King lost to someone weaker than him in less than 15 minutes < Katakuri fought someone equal to him for 2+hours

 

[grey matter]

Luffy? That whole fight was Luffy getting punched for hours. Katakuri himself said he wasn't underestimating Luffy.
Only mistake Katakuri did was thinking he did kill Luffy.

Anyway, Pirate Queen showed how Katakuri could fight for hours while King couldn't

I do agree with Oda's inconsistencies. But you cannot bring anything from the manga to prove your claim. That's my point.

I could also say "why can't you understand my point smh". But I respect everyone's opinion.

I see your point.

My point however is that is BS for characters to fight for more than an hour, unless they have an ability which specifically allows them to, but that would be in an uphill battle.
Like Marco, King or Bartalomeo for eg.
One can heal, one don't take damage in a mode unless from advanced conq, one can create invulnerable barrier.


I mean, one hour is VERY LONG for a battle, especially when characters here attack multiple times in a second lol
There is a limit to how much punishment and damage you can take.. Unless you can somehow not take damage, I don't see how it can go on for hours or something.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I can't find my Top 30 but I know I wrote one somewhere here

 

[XXGenesis]

Why is so much stock out into how long a fight went on for? I really don’t get this point Ppl try to make about X & X four for hours.

It doesn’t mean anything besides it was a long drawn out fight, a fight of equals or like Luffy someone refusing to lose despite getting they ass kick….

But I’m literallly so confused as to the major point that’s trying to be said when the duration of a fight is mentioned, aside from difficulty.

 

[grey matter]

Why is so much stock out into how long a fight went on for? I really don’t get this point Ppl try to make about X & X four for hours.

It doesn’t mean anything besides it was a long drawn out fight, a fight of equals or like Luffy someone refusing to lose despite getting they ass kick….

But I’m literallly so confused as to the major point that’s trying to be said when the duration of a fight is mentioned, aside from difficulty.

I suppose they want to point to durability and stamina?

 

[I Am Atomic]

I see your point.

My point however is that is BS for characters to fight for more than an hour, unless they have an ability which specifically allows them to, but that would be in an uphill battle.
Like Marco, King or Bartalomeo for eg.
One can heal, one don't take damage in a mode unless from advanced conq, one can create invulnerable barrier.


I mean, one hour is VERY LONG for a battle, especially when characters here attack multiple times in a second lol
There is a limit to how much punishment and damage you can take.. Unless you can somehow not take damage, I don't see how it can go on for hours or something.

Look, at the end of the day, none of us are wrong. It's Oda being inconsistent. This causes people read into X hours fight very differently.

Why is so much stock out into how long a fight went on for? I really don’t get this point Ppl try to make about X & X four for hours.

Because Oda introduced the concept of days and hours to show superior fights don't end quickly. So for a decade, we all thought high end fights will last for days and hours. Now it's shown that was wrong all along.
A decade of believing one thing and being told it's wrong is not something easy to take and accept.

 

[XXGenesis]

Because Oda introduced the concept of days and hours to show superior fights don't end quickly. So for a decade, we all thought high end fights will last for days and hours. Now it's shown that was wrong all along.
A decade of believing one thing and being told it's wrong is not something easy to take and accept.

Glad you realize that. Because it’s such a dumb argument to still bring up when Oda shows he picks and chose these lengthty fights.

I’ve also realized Believing a Yonko 1shots everything or cannot be hurt by anything less than a Admiral was my own false perception

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 20, 2022, Original Post Date: Jan 20, 2022 ---

I suppose they want to point to durability and stamina?

It’s only a plot element. Not a reference for such. Fights that go that long even in other Shonen that aren’t over the top in supernatural powers, often have one of the combatants avoiding the other throughout the fight, but the span of the entire encounter those last for hours.

 

[grey matter]

Because Oda introduced the concept of days and hours to show superior fights don't end quickly. So for a decade, we all thought high end fights will last for days and hours. Now it's shown that was wrong all along.
A decade of believing one thing and being told it's wrong is not something easy to take and accept.

I always thought it was BS from the getgo lol.

Akainu vs WB lasted like 5-10 mins, ending with Akainu KO'd and WB damaged beyond repair.
This is realistic. If both have capabilities to damage one another, and are serious, the fight shouldn't go on for too long

Now, Kaido will be going down within 15 mins. Yeah, he was through a massive gauntlet and was fighting for hours.
But the final round of Luffy vs Kaido will probably be under 15 mins

Glad you realize that. Because it’s such a dumb argument to still bring up when Oda shows he picks and chose these lengthty fights.

I’ve also realized Believing a Yonko 1shots everything or cannot be hurt by anything less than a Admiral was my own false perception

Remember when Kaido was said to be not able to be damaged at all ??!!
That was what made Oden's feat so legendary!
Now, everyone can damage Kaido apparently, as long as they have advanced armament or conqueror's KEK


I was also one of those who used to wank Yonkos to some Godly level, thought Marines + Shichibukai = Yonko crew (because of the whole balance thing), Yonkos one shot everything (esp due to Luffy's one shot) etc

Scabbards' feats + rooftop fight against Supernova completely changed my perception of the Yonoks.
Any two of the OG admirals are 100% taking down a Yonko, unless we're talking about peak WB or something.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Darn I cannot find my Top 30 and it took such a long time for me to make. I did it when all the YouTube were doing it a few weeks ago.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 20, 2022, Original Post Date: Jan 20, 2022 ---

Because Oda introduced the concept of days and hours to show superior fights don't end quickly. So for a decade, we all thought high end fights will last for days and hours. Now it's shown that was wrong all along.
A decade of believing one thing and being told it's wrong is not something easy to take and accept.

We are gunna have to start changing Difficulty for Time Limits.

Not more "Luffy low-diff's Zoro", now it's "Luffy 5 minutes Zoro"

 

[albertwv]

Looks like we are all changing our perspectives on Yonko. I do hope this does not mean we see the Admirals higher than the Yonko.
To me 1 Yonko > 1 Admiral, it would take 2 Admirals to effectively defeat 1 Yonko. I still respect the strength of the Yonko individually.
Oda screwed up on having Kaido and BM vs 5 Supernovas. This lowered the Yonko's value.
Initially, I thought fighting Kaido was going to be like Bullet fight, where there was all the Supernova rookies fighting 1 godly beast (Bullet) and Bullet nonchalantly smashing through each one and being defeated by 5/6 extremely strong individuals.
That's how i thought Kaido was gonna go down, with all the Supernova in Wano (Hawkins, Drake, Kid, Apoo, Killer) were going to betray Kaido and ally themselves with Luffy to defeat Kaido, with BM out of the picture. In a power level sense it would be more sensible.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Looks like we are all changing our perspectives on Yonko. I do hope this does not mean we see the Admirals higher than the Yonko.
To me 1 Yonko > 1 Admiral, it would take 2 Admirals to effectively defeat 1 Yonko. I still respect the strength of the Yonko individually.
Oda screwed up on having Kaido and BM vs 5 Supernovas. This lowered the Yonko's value.
Initially, I thought fighting Kaido was going to be like Bullet fight, where there was all the Supernova rookies fighting 1 godly beast (Bullet) and Bullet nonchalantly smashing through each one and being defeated by 5/6 extremely strong individuals.
That's how i thought Kaido was gonna go down, with all the Supernova in Wano (Hawkins, Drake, Kid, Apoo, Killer) were going to betray Kaido and ally themselves with Luffy to defeat Kaido, with BM out of the picture. In a power level sense it would be more sensible.

The supernovas that fought Douglas bullet are significantly weaker tho , they’ve gotten leagues stronger
Like I said Oda places power levels fast loose
Strongest marines are same level as the strongest pirates

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Looks like we are all changing our perspectives on Yonko. I do hope this does not mean we see the Admirals higher than the Yonko.
To me 1 Yonko > 1 Admiral, it would take 2 Admirals to effectively defeat 1 Yonko. I still respect the strength of the Yonko individually.
Oda screwed up on having Kaido and BM vs 5 Supernovas. This lowered the Yonko's value.
Initially, I thought fighting Kaido was going to be like Bullet fight, where there was all the Supernova rookies fighting 1 godly beast (Bullet) and Bullet nonchalantly smashing through each one and being defeated by 5/6 extremely strong individuals.
That's how i thought Kaido was gonna go down, with all the Supernova in Wano (Hawkins, Drake, Kid, Apoo, Killer) were going to betray Kaido and ally themselves with Luffy to defeat Kaido, with BM out of the picture. In a power level sense it would be more sensible.

The alternative perspective and the one Oda likely wants us to have is to elevate the Supernova to top tier strength. The value of the Yonko is not being lowered, the value of the Supernova is going up. Post Wano the Supernova will be the strongest pirates on the seas and likely will be labeled as such.

As far as balance with Yonko vs Admirals I tend to agree with @Lord Traffy Law on this one. The strongest Pirates will be in the same league as the strongest Marines. Any of the OG Admirals can take on a Yonko 1v1 and probably the same for the new ones. Even in the WB vs Akainu, the fight was pretty even if you look at the manga. Sure WB had the upper hand at the end but Akainu got in a pretty fatal hit on WB.

The Douglas Bullet stuff is non-canon so it can't really be used to gauge strength in the main OP storyline. Heck OP Movie Strong had pre timeskip Luffy fight Shiki pretty evenly, the same Shiki who was on the same level as Rodger, Garp, Sengoku (at least according to the story). The movies are all over the place and don't make sense to the main storyline.

 

[grey matter]

Looks like we are all changing our perspectives on Yonko. I do hope this does not mean we see the Admirals higher than the Yonko.
To me 1 Yonko > 1 Admiral, it would take 2 Admirals to effectively defeat 1 Yonko. I still respect the strength of the Yonko individually.
Oda screwed up on having Kaido and BM vs 5 Supernovas. This lowered the Yonko's value.
Initially, I thought fighting Kaido was going to be like Bullet fight, where there was all the Supernova rookies fighting 1 godly beast (Bullet) and Bullet nonchalantly smashing through each one and being defeated by 5/6 extremely strong individuals.
That's how i thought Kaido was gonna go down, with all the Supernova in Wano (Hawkins, Drake, Kid, Apoo, Killer) were going to betray Kaido and ally themselves with Luffy to defeat Kaido, with BM out of the picture. In a power level sense it would be more sensible.

Yep.
I've started viewing the admirals a lot closer to Yonkos as well.

I still think a single Yonko > a single admiral. But, two admirals are 100% taking down any pirate so far in the series apart from probably Roger and prime WB

The 5 supernovas in rooftop taking down Kaido together in a 5v1 would've been amazing IMO though.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 21, 2022, Original Post Date: Jan 21, 2022 ---

Strongest marines are same level as the strongest pirates

In the old days?
With Garp and Sengoku, I guess

Prime Garp was Roger/WB level, and prime Sengoku was definitely Yonko level

Currently however, I can only see Akainu actually being Yonko level

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

The alternative perspective and the one Oda likely wants us to have is to elevate the Supernova to top tier strength. The value of the Yonko is not being lowered, the value of the Supernova is going up. Post Wano the Supernova will be the strongest pirates on the seas and likely will be labeled as such.

As far as balance with Yonko vs Admirals I tend to agree with @Lord Traffy Law on this one. The strongest Pirates will be in the same league as the strongest Marines. Any of the OG Admirals can take on a Yonko 1v1 and probably the same for the new ones. Even in the WB vs Akainu, the fight was pretty even if you look at the manga. Sure WB had the upper hand at the end but Akainu got in a pretty fatal hit on WB.

The Douglas Bullet stuff is non-canon so it can't really be used to gauge strength in the main OP storyline. Heck OP Movie Strong had pre timeskip Luffy fight Shiki pretty evenly, the same Shiki who was on the same level as Rodger, Garp, Sengoku (at least according to the story). The movies are all over the place and don't make sense to the main storyline.

I always point out , akainu left WB with significantly more fatal wounds , blasted chest and melted organs + losing half his face , while akainu was in top shape relatively and able to chase after the Blackbeard pirates damn near immediate after the war and make them retreat even ,
Again I think I blame the anime , from the manga WB and akainu is way more even
Heck kizaru got the better of whitebeard consistently when they fought
Hmm vs Kuzan was no conclusion
I always feel like Oda was hitting us over the head that while still incredibly powerful , WB wasn’t the strongest man in the world anymore at that point ( couldn’t use his COO and COC at command , constantly keeling over and his durability probably significantly compromised , prime WB saves ace , tho counterpart , garp and Sengoku get serious and participate the pirates get routed hella quick )
Cause so far lore wise top of the top seems to be roger whitebeard garp Sengoku and rocks , where they’re all kinda relative to each other power wise ( 2 marines , 3 pirates )
And I can almost bet that dragon was probably like a VA or rear admiral before he defected, probably a shoo in for a future admiral before he defected , I think at least he was a recruit and I almost sure he’s an insane powerhouse ( that’s unless rumors that while he’s a d he took his wife’s name and luffy’s mum is garps daughter )

 

[grey matter]

I always point out , akainu left WB with significantly more fatal wounds , blasted chest and melted organs + losing half his face , while akainu was in top shape relatively and able to chase after the Blackbeard pirates damn near immediate after the war and make them retreat even ,
Again I think I blame the anime , from the manga WB and akainu is way more even

All this is true.

It is also true Akainu got KO'd and that if Akainu didn't conveniently slide off a cliff, WB would've killed him.

WB would've died later from the injuries of course, he was beyond repair. But WB was the victor in that fight, WB won it extreme diff