One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

It’s important to note , Yamato had cuffs on and wasn’t using her DF power and couldn’t go all oit
But the the thing is Ace was very powerful , he just faced two hard counters to his strength in Blackbeard and Akainu

 

[Fallou]

Ehh, current Sanji is borderline YC1 level. No way Jinbe is that strong.

Pre Germa powerup Sanji though, I can see Jinbe >= that version of Sanji.

Plus, we kinda know how strong Jinbe is. He stalemated Ace, and Jinbe was ~40 years old then, i.e very close to his current level, if not right at his current level. Peak Ace maybe as strong or stronger than current Sanji, but the Ace before joining WB pirates, who got one shot by WB in his sleep? Don't think so

Fair enough

 

[Sachsenhesse]

It’s important to note , Yamato had cuffs on and wasn’t using her DF power and couldn’t go all oit
But the the thing is Ace was very powerful , he just faced two hard counters to his strength in Blackbeard and Akainu

So Ace best showing was against a handicapped user?

Checks out for me

 

[McNuss]

Monkey D. Luffy
Roronoa Zoro, Trafalgar D. Water Law
Jinbe
Vinsmoke Sanji, Donquixote Doflamingo
Vergo
Pica
Franky
Nico Robin
Cavendish (&Farul)
Brook, Sai
Nami (& Zeus), Elizabello II, Kyros
Monet
Trebol
Bartolomeo
Diamante
Tony Tony Chopper
Dellinger, Gladius, Senor Pink, Lao G
Bellamy
Hajrudin, Ideo, Blue Gilly, Hack, Jean Ango
Baby 5, Stansen, Road, Goldberg, Gerd, Machvise, Kelly Funk (&Bobby Funk)
Usopp, Chinjao, Buffalo
Sugar
Leo, Orlumbus
Giolla
Suleiman, Gambia, Boo, Abdullah, Jeet, Dagama, Tank Lepanto, Riku Doldo III, Mummy, Meadows, Damask, Rolling Logan, Acilia, Spartan
Kabu, Bian, Rebecca
Bomba, Ranpo
Inhel, Cotton, Wicca, Baxcon, Daikon, Flapper, Bobomba, Mauji, Nubon, Pellini, Chao, Eikon, Chicory, Tarara
Viola
Nefeltari Vivi (&Carue)
Kyuin
Columbus
Ucy, Agyo, Uhho
Hera
Disco, Gatz, Gancho, Mansherry, Grabar, Esta, Milo, Aremo Ganmi, Mukkashimi Tower, Tegata Ringana, Shin Detamaruka, Shin Jaiya
Mario

Did not place Maynard (Capman), seems easier when doing the Marines. Anyone remember "Meadows is Kaido"? The God Tier of theory dumbness

 

[LaGOAT]

Monkey D. Luffy
Roronoa Zoro, Trafalgar D. Water Law
Jinbe
Vinsmoke Sanji, Donquixote Doflamingo
Vergo
Pica
Franky
Nico Robin
Cavendish (&Farul)
Brook, Sai
Nami, Elizabello II, Kyros
Monet
Trebol
Bartolomeo
Diamante
Tony Tony Chopper
Dellinger, Gladius, Senor Pink, Lao G
Bellamy
Hajrudin, Ideo, Blue Gilly, Hack, Jean Ango
Baby 5, Stansen, Road, Goldberg, Gerd, Machvise, Kelly Funk (&Bobby Funk)
Usopp, Chinjao, Buffalo
Sugar
Leo, Orlumbus
Giolla
Suleiman, Gambia, Boo, Abdullah, Jeet, Dagama, Tank Lepanto, Riku Doldo III, Mummy, Meadows, Damask, Rolling Logan, Acilia, Spartan
Kabu, Bian, Rebecca
Bomba, Ranpo
Inhel, Cotton, Wicca, Baxcon, Daikon, Flapper, Bobomba, Mauji, Nubon, Pellini, Chao, Eikon, Chicory, Tarara
Viola
Nefeltari Vivi (&Carue)
Kyuin
Columbus
Ucy, Agyo, Uhho
Hera
Disco, Gatz, Gancho, Mansherry, Grabar, Esta, Milo, Aremo Ganmi, Mukkashimi Tower, Tegata Ringana, Shin Detamaruka, Shin Jaiya
Mario

Did not place Maynard (Capman), seems easier when doing the Marines. Anyone remember "Meadows is Kaido"? The God Tier of theory dumbness

Where is kidd and killer?

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 8, 2022, Original Post Date: Mar 8, 2022 ---

It’s important to note , Yamato had cuffs on and wasn’t using her DF power and couldn’t go all oit
But the the thing is Ace was very powerful , he just faced two hard counters to his strength in Blackbeard and Akainu

That’s the problem and if top of that we didn’t see him use any hake use power so the question is ace even in the top 30?

 

[Pirate Queen]

Where is kidd and killer?

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 8, 2022, Original Post Date: Mar 8, 2022 ---

That’s the problem and if top of that we didn’t see him use any hake use power so the question is ace even in the top 30?

Ace has a 3 haki types

 

[McNuss]

Where is kidd and killer?

I am going group by group and have not added them yet.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 8, 2022, Original Post Date: Mar 8, 2022 ---

But It might be a good idea to add them now. Originally, i also wanted to do Punk Hazard to finally finish the "Doflamingo Cluster", but I realized that is actually very difficult as Punk Hazard is very isolated. I think end of the day we will realize we underrated the Yeti Cool Bros and they are essentially smart Numbers, also Law created Gifters that can swim, Caesar is such a failure might as well call him Clown..oh wait.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 8, 2022 ---

I will just rank those properly featured. Urouge has good feats but all offpanel, and Snack is one of the reasons why I avoided the Yonko crews up till now.

I think current ranking of those should be:

Luffy
Zoro, Law, Kid
Killer
Bege (&the Firetank Pirates)
Apoo
Drake
Hawkins

I might be doing Bege dirty since we never saw Big Father fire its cannons, also he "powered up" in his cover story, having the Pound and the Rolling Pirates join his crew.

Now onto integrating, wait a bit...

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 8, 2022 ---

Monkey D. Luffy
Roronoa Zoro, Trafalgar D. Water Law
Eustass Kid
Killer
Jinbe, Capone Bege (&the Firetank Pirates)
Vinsmoke Sanji, Donquixote Doflamingo
Scratchmen Apoo
Vergo
Pica
X Drake
Franky, Basil Hawkins
Nico Robin
Cavendish (&Farul)
Brook, Sai
Nami (& Zeus), Elizabello II, Kyros
Monet
Trebol
Bartolomeo
Diamante
Tony Tony Chopper
Dellinger, Gladius, Senor Pink, Lao G
Bellamy
Hajrudin, Ideo, Blue Gilly, Hack, Jean Ango
Baby 5, Stansen, Road, Goldberg, Gerd, Machvise, Kelly Funk (&Bobby Funk)
Usopp, Chinjao, Buffalo
Sugar
Leo, Orlumbus
Giolla
Suleiman, Gambia, Boo, Abdullah, Jeet, Dagama, Tank Lepanto, Riku Doldo III, Mummy, Meadows, Damask, Rolling Logan, Acilia, Spartan
Kabu, Bian, Rebecca
Bomba, Ranpo
Inhel, Cotton, Wicca, Baxcon, Daikon, Flapper, Bobomba, Mauji, Nubon, Pellini, Chao, Eikon, Chicory, Tarara
Viola
Nefeltari Vivi (&Carue)
Kyuin
Columbus
Ucy, Agyo, Uhho
Hera
Disco, Gatz, Gancho, Mansherry, Grabar, Esta, Milo, Aremo Ganmi, Mukkashimi Tower, Tegata Ringana, Shin Detamaruka, Shin Jaiya
Mario

Changed my mind about Kid a bit, Law > Kid

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

What is this based on? Doflamingo himself said it: Gear 2 had speed but lacked power, while Gear 3 had power but lacked speed, so if he didn't use Gear 4, he would've lost to Doflamingo.

Luffy went gear 4 cause of bird cage , It wasn’t certain he’d have lost without it but there definitely wasn’t enough time cause of gear 4

Where is kidd and killer?

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 8, 2022, Original Post Date: Mar 8, 2022 ---

That’s the problem and if top of that we didn’t see him use any hake use power so the question is ace even in the top 30?

Ace isn’t top 30

Ace has a 3 haki types

He couldn’t use them to manga knowledge
Although the spin off novels says he dies

 

[XXGenesis]

Luffy went gear 4 cause of bird cage , It wasn’t certain he’d have lost without it but there definitely wasn’t enough time cause of gear 4


Ace isn’t top 30

He couldn’t use them to manga knowledge
Although the spin off novels says he dies

Huh? Nani!! Lol

Ace is top 30…..??? Ace vs Jimbei rookie Ace….Ace vs Yamamoto…Ace Vs BB…He’s top 30

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Huh? Nani!! Lol

Ace is top 30…..??? Ace vs Jimbei rookie Ace….Ace vs Yamamoto…Ace Vs BB…He’s top 30

Vs. Jimbei off panel feat. We dont know how their fight went.

vs. Yamamoto, she seemed to had a handicap there right?

vs. BB he got his ass handled to him. It was a important fight for him. For BB it was tuesday.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Huh? Nani!! Lol

Ace is top 30…..??? Ace vs Jimbei rookie Ace….Ace vs Yamamoto…Ace Vs BB…He’s top 30

The thing with this is ace is dead so to include him yoh have to include dead character introduced
I’d
Sengoku garp roger whitebeard akainu kizaru kuzan Magellan mihawk shanks kaido big linlin rocks king katakuri Marco vista sabo dragon rocks shiki doflamingo Yamato Zoro luffy sanji fujitora ryokogou law Beckmann oden Rayleigh scopper Blackbeard

now if ace was allowed to live and grow he’d probably have become top 2
Yamato had the cuffs and couldn’t use her DF powers

 

[XXGenesis]

The thing with this is ace is dead so to include him yoh have to include dead character introduced
I’d
Sengoku garp roger whitebeard akainu kizaru kuzan Magellan mihawk shanks kaido big linlin rocks king katakuri Marco vista sabo dragon rocks shiki doflamingo Yamato Zoro luffy sanji fujitora ryokogou law Beckmann oden Rayleigh scopper Blackbeard

now if ace was allowed to live and grow he’d probably have become top 2
Yamato had the cuffs and couldn’t use her DF powers

Got chu….you’ve named 35 characters there. I see 3 Ace is def stronger than. But I get your POV behind your statement now

 

[grey matter]

That’s the problem and if top of that we didn’t see him use any hake use power so the question is ace even in the top 30?

The dude stalemated Jinbe when he was far weaker than his peak. Ace is definitely a top 30 character. I mean, at least if we're only including characters who were know where they stand.

If we're talking about including characters based off hype and so on, then yea, Ace probably won't make it tp top 30

 

[really_jonny]

If you count all the characters in One Piece (even those who have died or are inactive in its prime version) only Tier Yonkou has about 15.

Ace flirt with any Commander level. It can be argued that he is level YC1 (King/Katakuri/Marco), YC2 (Cracker/Queen/Doflamingo) and YC3 (Jack, Red Scabbards). In my opinion, Ace is level YC2. Always have to consider Busoshoku and Kenbunshoku for commander level characters in One Piece currently per scale. Ace's Dai Enkai Entei is one of the most powerful attacks in One Piece.

 

[grey matter]

If you count all the characters in One Piece (even those who have died or are inactive in its prime version) only Tier Yonkou has about 15.

Ace flirt with any Commander level. It can be argued that he is level YC1 (King/Katakuri/Marco), YC2 (Cracker/Queen/Doflamingo) and YC3 (Jack, Red Scabbards). In my opinion, Ace is level YC2. Always have to consider Busoshoku and Kenbunshoku for commander level characters in One Piece currently per scale. Ace's Dai Enkai Entei is one of the most powerful attacks in One Piece.

IMO Ace is borderline YC1 tier. Almost there, but not quite. But that's because the 1st commanders are quite special in a way Ace wasn't, but by stats he's there (he had the potential to surpass them all, but died too soon).

Ace was Jinbe level when he joined WB pirates. And Jinbe is YC3 level IMO, when we consider that he pretty much mid diff'd arguably the strongest Tobiroppo (after maybe Drake).
Ace then grew stronger for 2 years.

 

[really_jonny]

But Oda doesn't care much for scales. If he wants to, he'll make a supposed YC3 fight toe to toe with an admiral, if he wants to, he'll make an admiral be as strong as a Yonko. In Marineford, Jozu fought toe-to-toe with Crocodile, the same Jozu fought toe-to-toe with Aokiji only being defeated by letting his guard down out of concern for his father, the same Jozu who was overpowered by the Parasite, the same Aokiji who fought with 10 days against Akainu who was able to rival Whitebeard. If Oda wants to make a Jack of life fight a Yonko toe to toe he will do it, just as he can make a Jack be defeated in an instant by a Yonko, and an admiral fight several commanders (Akainu faced Marco+Vista and all WB commanders at the end of the war).

 

[grey matter]

But Oda doesn't care much for scales. If he wants to, he'll make a supposed YC3 fight toe to toe with an admiral, if he wants to, he'll make an admiral be as strong as a Yonko. In Marineford, Jozu fought toe-to-toe with Crocodile, the same Jozu fought toe-to-toe with Aokiji only being defeated by letting his guard down out of concern for his father, the same Jozu who was overpowered by the Parasite, the same Aokiji who fought with 10 days against Akainu who was able to rival Whitebeard. If Oda wants to make a Jack of life fight a Yonko toe to toe he will do it, just as he can make a Jack be defeated in an instant by a Yonko, and an admiral fight several commanders (Akainu faced Marco+Vista and all WB commanders at the end of the war).

Yeah, I get what you're saying. And agree to an extend, Oda's powerscaling is flawed. The current arc is a good example of this point, this arc's powerscaling is complete wack.

Still. Regarding the points you posted, my explanation would be that Crocodile was always intended to be that strong. Crocodile had a far stronger portrayal in Marineford compared to Luffy, even though pre gears Luffy beat him.
IMO Oda made a mistake with introducing Crocodile too early, and didn't know how wack the powerscaling could get. So, he "corrected" himself in Marineford.
And Jozu anyway, was overwhelming Crocodile pretty convincingly.

Doflamingo never faced Jozu head on though, Jozu was caught by an off guard attack.

I'd say that Jozu is probably beginning of Wano G4 Luffy in pure stats, but without the versatility but with insane defense instead.
It kinda made sense that he could hold off Aokiji, because his defense is top tier, and he has speed and strength to keep up.

 

[McNuss]

Or maybe you all just don't understand it enough. I think the community is trying to enforce something like the YC system, and then when say see that they made up something that doesn't work, they blame it on Oda.

But Oda doesn't care much for scales. If he wants to, he'll make a supposed YC3 fight toe to toe with an admiral, if he wants to, he'll make an admiral be as strong as a Yonko. In Marineford, Jozu fought toe-to-toe with Crocodile, the same Jozu fought toe-to-toe with Aokiji only being defeated by letting his guard down out of concern for his father, the same Jozu who was overpowered by the Parasite, the same Aokiji who fought with 10 days against Akainu who was able to rival Whitebeard. If Oda wants to make a Jack of life fight a Yonko toe to toe he will do it, just as he can make a Jack be defeated in an instant by a Yonko, and an admiral fight several commanders (Akainu faced Marco+Vista and all WB commanders at the end of the war).

I mean, you are stretching here. Jozu easily overwhelmed Crocodile in their brief encounter. He never fought toe toe toe with Aokiji, he lasted a few minutes lol. Getting distracted was entirely his own fault, its not like a CP0 agent grapped him with Tekkai or something.

Jozu is a Pre-Skip character. Pre-Skip One Piece did not provide insight into many features of high level combat, but these features have to have been there. It also provided a very limited insight into the Top Tier as many groups had not even been introduced.

The only discernible facts for a Post-Timeskip placement of Jozu is that he is stronger than Izo but weaker than Marco. Which is still a wide enough range to make these YC concepts fall apart.

As a german (because everyone reads abreviations with his native alphabet), YC rhymes with Grütze ("groats").

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Got chu….you’ve named 35 characters there. I see 3 Ace is def stronger than. But I get your POV behind your statement now

Oh who among ?
tbf it’s hard to gauge ace , he wasreally Strong but the two fights he did did him no favors

 

[M3J]

Luffy went gear 4 cause of bird cage , It wasn’t certain he’d have lost without it but there definitely wasn’t enough time cause of gear 4

How would he have beaten Doflamingo without Gear 4?

Or maybe you all just don't understand it enough. I think the community is trying to enforce something like the YC system, and then when say see that they made up something that doesn't work, they blame it on Oda.

Personally, I think having a tier system is pretty useless and dumb. The only ones that seem to be immune are the Emperors and maybe the admirals, otherwise power levels or who characters can beat seem to fluctuate. Another problem is that readers don't consider matchups either, or characters' individual skills.