One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I do hope we see the rest of that fight and see what BB is fully capable of. I don't have a problem with him having aCoC, just need a bit more than two black lightings coming from the water surface to claim that its a done deal.

I'm gunna say this in the most respectful way possible as reading back on this conversation I started it a bit aggressively which I do when something so obvious happens and people choose to ignore it.

Not everything needs to be spoonfed to us readers. The evidence is on the panel of BB using a Sea Quake to hit the Polar Tang and thus the established presentation of ACoC (CoC tendrils) was used to show BB utilized ACOC in his attack.

It is not CoA, like you mentioned earlier as it does not present like that.

So you have 3 options.

1. Oda didn't know what the fuck he was doing and drew those ACoC Lightening for no reason and it's just there

2. BB did NOT use ACoC but someone on his crew with a similar power to him and with ACoC hit the Polar Tang with a SeaQuake that was NOT BB himself

3. BB used ACoC with his Quake Quake Fruit in his attack on the Polar Tang.

It's really not a hard conclusion to come to seeing as how we were literally given a panel of what happened.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 17, 2022, Original Post Date: Oct 17, 2022 ---

Your example is even worse though. Hancock lost to BB so she can't even be compared to him. She got lucky that Rayleigh showed up and scared BB away if not she would have been dead. Now imagine if it Kaido or BM. BM praised Marco but that doesn't mean that Marco is Yonko level. Bb praised in a way Hancock for her stone turning ability, but once she lost that she was gonna get her neck snapped.

She was literally by herself against a Yonko, his crew, 2 Commanders, Coby, and a marine battalion and she didn't get hurt until BB blindsided her. BB then said she could defeat him.

Big Mom NEVER said Marco could defeat her. Huge difference.

BB only won because his DF cancels out her DF ability. that's it

Now again. Since you want to place her as a YC3, which OTHER YC3 CAN GET A YONKO TO ADMIT THEY COULD DEFEAT THEM IF GIVEN THE CHANCE????

Give me one name. That's all I'm asking. Which YC3 can defeat Hancock.

 

[HereNThere]

Honestly, I think both views are fair, but I'm leaning towards the attack on Law being ACoC enhanced. Aside from the fact that Oda fully introduced and "explored" the concept in Onigashima and he can freely toss the ability around now, since we're in the end game of the series it's exceedingly likely that, going forward, all instances of Black Lightning will be related to ACoC as that is the only way to recognize it at this point.

Yes, past instances of basic CoC also used Black Lightning, but I'd say those demonstrations could be considered outdated. It'd be easier if Oda differentiated ACoC from the previous examples, but since he didn't and basically doubled down on that visual in Wano, I'm going to assume that instances of black lightning are ACoC. Basically like we kind of have to assume that every fight involves haki in some way, despite us not being explicitly told.

In terms of Hancock being YC3, that definitely feels like a severe underestimation of her. Oda has been incredibly consistent about everyone acknowledging that she's strong as shit. Was her performance against BB good? It doesn't seem like it, but it's not an anti-feat by any means. As a matter of fact, despite her being caught by the neck, everyone was still gassing her up as being a strong individual, including Blackbeard. We'll likely get more context in the future, but given that neither party was bruised and battered, I'd say that BB likely caught her off guard. Given the fact that he's of the opinion that he'd be petrified, he had to have gotten the drop on her before she had a chance to take aim at him.

 

[Urek Mazino]

If i remember correctly, Blackbeard's fruit only cancels df powers, it doesn't make the user weak like seastone so why didn't Hancock fight back?

She is supposed to be strong, she could have kicked him or try to break free or something but she was just hanging there like there is nothing she could do.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Sorry but BB seems to lean extremely on the side of DF rather than elite haki

 

[DeadlyBeast]

I'm gunna say this in the most respectful way possible as reading back on this conversation I started it a bit aggressively which I do when something so obvious happens and people choose to ignore it.

Not everything needs to be spoonfed to us readers. The evidence is on the panel of BB using a Sea Quake to hit the Polar Tang and thus the established presentation of ACoC (CoC tendrils) was used to show BB utilized ACOC in his attack.

It is not CoA, like you mentioned earlier as it does not present like that.

So you have 3 options.

1. Oda didn't know what the fuck he was doing and drew those ACoC Lightening for no reason and it's just there

2. BB did NOT use ACoC but someone on his crew with a similar power to him and with ACoC hit the Polar Tang with a SeaQuake that was NOT BB himself

3. BB used ACoC with his Quake Quake Fruit in his attack on the Polar Tang.

It's really not a hard conclusion to come to seeing as how we were literally given a panel of what happened.

I completely understand the rational here and don't think it's crazy to conclude that BB has aCoC. However we do have other options than just the 3 you provided:

1. Regular CoC has shown large black lighting with "tendrils" in the past so it could have just been that so it could just be BB used CoC with Gura Gura
2. Oda has drawn regular lighting in a way that looks like black lighting (I recall panels when BM used Fulgora when she made Hera did slightly look like black haki lighting due to the size of the lighting bolts)

Overall I think we agree that we both see the black lighting in this chapter and that is is most likely haki (particularly of the CoC variety). Between all the characters present BB is the most likely to have it as well. But I think I'll just need a bit more to consider it a foregone conclusion is all.

I do think whether or not BB has aCoC, that he is going to be a DF specialist and utilize haki more like BM than Kaido/Luffy/Shanks who seem predominantly haki focused fighters.

 

[albertwv]

BB seems more of a DF user instead of Haki. NOT SAYING HE DOESNT HAVE HAKI or COC. Like we saw with Kaido and BM, Kaido was more of a master of Haki while BM was a master of DF. I think it is safe to say that BB focuses more on his DF power.
Hancock being easily captured by BB and not being able to do anything until Rayleigh came to rescue her isnt a feat for her to be boasted as YC1 or Yonko level.
What other feats in the manga portray her higher than DD or a YC3? Im just saying she doesnt have that many feats and from what we've seen in the manga it is not enough to claim she is YC1+.
My claim is here: Hancock can very well be YC1 or Yonko level but we do not have substantial evidence to back that up. Also, BB may very well have ACoC, but we should wait until we see more of it in action.

 

[grey matter]

Yeah, I'll need confirmation that BB has conquerors haki before I even entertain that being advanced conquerors haki.

He very well may have it, but it's too be confirmed. Oda really does explicitly state or show it, if someone indeed has it.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Yeah, I'll need confirmation that BB has conquerors haki before I even entertain that being advanced conquerors haki.

He very well may have it, but it's too be confirmed. Oda really does explicitly state or show it, if someone indeed has it.

, you seen him use it. It's confirmed

It's insane how people will just ignore fact lol

 

[I Am Atomic]

, you seen him use it. It's confirmed

It's insane how people will just ignore fact lol

All he is saying is "it's not clear enough" and I agree with him.

 

[Pirate Queen]

All he is saying is "it's not clear enough" and I agree with him.

If the panel was of Luffy eating an ice cream, would you say "I need more confirmation to see if Luffy is actually eating an ice cream?"

It not even about if he's using it or not. He's clearly using it. The discussion is now why several people are just pretending it didn't happen.

I get that you guys want MORE confirmation. It just doesn't make sense when Oda already drew a panel confirming jt

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 19, 2022, Original Post Date: Oct 19, 2022 ---

If the panel was of Luffy eating an ice cream, would you say "I need more confirmation to see if Luffy is actually eating an ice cream?"

It not even about if he's using it or not. He's clearly using it. The discussion is now why several people are just pretending it didn't happen.

I get that you guys want MORE confirmation. It just doesn't make sense when Oda already drew a panel confirming jt

@Barrier, who do you think sent the Sea Quake with ACoC? Who else there could do it?

 

[I Am Atomic]

If the panel was of Luffy eating an ice cream, would you say "I need more confirmation to see if Luffy is actually eating an ice cream?"

Luffy eating an ice cream =/= two streaks of lightning that is similar to CoA lightning streaks.

I get that you guys want MORE confirmation. It just doesn't make sense when Oda already drew a panel confirming jt

Yes. We just need more confirmation. That's all we want tbh....

I remember there was a user called Critical Mindset who said Vergo could use aCoC because there were lightning streaks during his fight between Sanji.

Sometimes one panel of unclear* evidence is not enough to prove a point.

*Unclear because we are certainly divided in our opinion.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 19, 2022, Original Post Date: Oct 19, 2022 ---

@Barrier, who do you think sent the Sea Quake with ACoC? Who else there could do it?

WB could do the same without aCoC (to the walls in the war). So, I can interpret the panel differently from you.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Luffy eating an ice cream =/= two streaks of lightning that is similar to CoA lightning streaks.

It not similar to an CoA attack at all.

CoA lightening had a disbursing effect as the result of a clash. Not 1 streak of lightening coming from 1 attack.

I am not sure how you even begin to compare the two.

The presentation is completely different.

So you saw that panel and said it was a CoA attack? With BB being many meters ABOVE. Law's Sub?

How is that even valid tho? And I'm not trying to be rude here but it just makes no sense that it would be CoA

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 19, 2022, Original Post Date: Oct 19, 2022 ---

]


WB could do the same without aCoC (to the walls in the war). So, I can interpret the panel differently from you.

WB never used black lightening in his attack(BB did) and Oda likely didn't think of presenting ACoC like that... I think you mean the air cracks? And the lightening from 1063 didn't look like those

 

[funkyfrog]

my frog, eichiro is rushing thru this now like a dog thru a bowl of meat balls. he definately wont make the fight as one sided as people think. law is being portrayed as a very dangerous fighter now that i would put atleast on solid low admiral level. teach on the other hand is being portrayed as a overconfident and a bit clumsy fatty, by far not as intimidating and overwhelming as kaido or bm. im certain that law will get some serious damage on him before he eventually bites the dust or some buttpull character will pop out of nowhere to save him. if eichiro really chooses to erase law than the theory that law will get hypnotized into performing the immortality surgery on teach makes the most sense, as they can still steal his fruit afterwards. eichiro has also yet to reveal, if the immmortality surgery just reverses aging on the subject or if it grants some more physical enhancements. as for bm, she really is dead. i mean, why would eichiro leave her in the lava to boil a little longer anyway. unless he wants her to taste really good in someones ramen...

 

[I Am Atomic]

It not similar to an CoA attack at all.

CoA lightening had a disbursing effect as the result of a clash. Not 1 streak of lightening coming from 1 attack.

I am not sure how you even begin to compare the two.

The presentation is completely different.

So you saw that panel and said it was a CoA attack? With BB being many meters ABOVE. Law's Sub?

How is that even valid tho? And I'm not trying to be rude here but it just makes no sense that it would be CoA

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 19, 2022, Original Post Date: Oct 19, 2022 ---

WB never used black lightening in his attack(BB did) and Oda likely didn't think of presenting ACoC like that... I think you mean the air cracks? And the lightening from 1063 didn't look like those

I struggle to tell the difference between CoA and aCoC lightning streaks. That is on me.
You aren't like that and is able to tell the difference easily, so you are confident in your statement.

So for me as a reader, I need to wait until I get confirmation on whether BB has aCoC or not.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I struggle to tell the difference between CoA and aCoC lightning streaks. That is on me.
You aren't like that and is able to tell the difference easily, so you are confident in your statement.

So for me as a reader, I need to wait until I get confirmation on whether BB has aCoC or not.

And Oda does use a similar effect for the air quakes and you are right about that.

I won't be pushing the issue anymore tho. I think i said enough that anymore would have me going in circles.

I HAVE been wrong about CoC before.

Oda is absolutely shit at being consistent with haki in general, not just with CoC

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Regarding BB and aCoC:

Spoiler: Chap 1064 spoilers

The scans actually make it even harder to tell. Oda is showing Gura Gura attacks with the haki style lighting compared to the cracking that we used to see with WB. Now I'm more inclined to think the lighting patterns we saw in the last chapter was purely Gura Gura powers.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Regarding BB and aCoC:

Spoiler: Chap 1064 spoilers

The scans actually make it even harder to tell. Oda is showing Gura Gura attacks with the haki style lighting compared to the cracking that we used to see with WB. Now I'm more inclined to think the lighting patterns we saw in the last chapter was purely Gura Gura powers.

Again it's all about presentation. Unless Oda made a mistake with how he shows "air cracks" its CoC.

And i am at least willing to admit Oda could have made a mistake

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Again it's all about presentation. Unless Oda made a mistake with how he shows "air cracks" its CoC.

And i am at least willing to admit Oda could have made a mistake

I think Oda is making the cracks more prominent then originally used to look like. When we saw WB first use it the art had very thin lines for the cracks which doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

Spoiler: WB first use of Gura Gura

It'll be interesting if the new look is just how it looks when combined with haki. Without a color spread we have to depend on verbal confirmation from characters/narrator.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I think Oda is making the cracks more prominent then originally used to look like. When we saw WB first use it the art had very thin lines for the cracks which doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

Spoiler: WB first use of Gura Gura

It'll be interesting if the new look is just how it looks when combined with haki. Without a color spread we have to depend on verbal confirmation from characters/narrator.

What color are air cracks usually, I guess that would have resolved this question asap

 

[DeadlyBeast]

What color are air cracks usually, I guess that would have resolved this question asap

In color version of OP they are a clear/translucent/light color though the anime recently has gone to random places like making them green. In the manga they were originally black but very thin lines that look like cracks vs lighting. In recent arcs e.g. WB flashbacks and in current 1064 spoilers they have been thicker black lines but maintain the "crack" sfx.