One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[albertwv]

Fandom doesn’t have a proper term or title for the level in between Yonkou/Admiral & YC1…So we use YC1+……To distinguish Admiral from Yonkou doesn’t make any sense. The titles hold the same weight. You are either Admiral/Yonkou lv OR you are YC1+…

Marco is not Equal to an Admiral.
Marco fought 2 commanders he didn’t win.
An Admiral No diff same 2 commanders & their supporting cast; Marco cannot defeat any Admirals.

Ben Beckman is a 1st Mate. He is not equal to Shanks. He’s hyped to be stronger than most other 1st Mates; So he’s YC1+

I agree, Marco is not equal to an admiral. Although I believe he is close to an admiral, regarding his portrayal in MF and Wano (vs BM and vs 2 YCs).
I wouldnt count GB vs King & Queen a fair match though, since they were most likely weakened. I think Oda made a huge mistake on handling that, but it seems Oda wanted to show off GB, yet Oda also showed off the strength of Shanks. That was a weird one, Oda could have handled it better.

Agree with you about Beckman. Ppl hype him up too much. I think he is YC1+. I'll wait to see more of him before I rank him as "equal" or close to Shanks, same goes for the rest of his crew. I do think that RHP commanders do not typically fall under the YC1-3 category necessarily.

I believe Yonko > Admirals to include Akainu. At least the original Yonko > Sengoku/Garp/Akainu.
In the low, mid, high spectrum for YCs, I would also include the Admiral and Yonko spectrum.
IMO, Kaido is high Yonko, while BB was low Yonko and BM & Shanks were mid Yonko. WB during MF war was low-mid Yonko.
Sengoku, Garp, Akainu and Aokiji are high Admiral, with Kizaru mid Admiral, and GB/Fuji are low Admiral.

I dont believe that Fleet Admiral position is stronger but rather more political and leadership.

 

[M3J]

I'm confident Akainu and Garp are at least on par with the emperors or can give them a run for their money. Akainu was doing well against Whitebeard and did not stay down, he was still standing and ready to figiht at the end. Sengoku also had to hold Garp down before he attacked Akainu, which implies (could go two ways tbh) he could have done damage to Akainu. Nothing so far has led me to believe the either two are inferior.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Marco lacks “bite” he’s quite powerful but his attacks do no real “damage” among top tiers
He’s not there with the admirals
He can tussle with the Yonkous and admirals but he his attack power is even less than many YC1+ Guys like law Yamato Zoro etc ( tho law might have grown to admiral/yonkou post big mum fight )
And yeah I’m sorry In their primes garp and Sengoku are as strong as the yonkou

 

[XXGenesis]

Prime Roger=WB > or = Prime Garp
Prime Sengoku is #4….Same High Yonkou/Admiral Tier.

Current Garp/Sengoku < Kaido; Shanks; Akainu IMO
Kidd/Law are Low Yonkou with their awakenings.
Kidd/Law are Low Yonkou with their awakenings.

 

[albertwv]

I'm confident Akainu and Garp are at least on par with the emperors or can give them a run for their money. Akainu was doing well against Whitebeard and did not stay down, he was still standing and ready to figiht at the end. Sengoku also had to hold Garp down before he attacked Akainu, which implies (could go two ways tbh) he could have done damage to Akainu. Nothing so far has led me to believe the either two are inferior.

Yeah but did you read the situation at the time of their fight? WB was unhealthy, sick, old and not at his best (I'm not talking about Prime WB) when he arrived at MF. Crocodile and Marcos noticed that WB was failing, especially due to the lack of Haki. WB did not use CoO (could not dodge Squardo) and he could not use CoC (to incapacitate the executioners). WB was not his true self. WB then got a heart attack in the middle of the fight and Akainu capitalized on that and that secure a good hit on WB. Then in their 2nd round, WB straight knocked Akainu out of the playing field, had Akainu still being around I'm 100% sure WB would have continued to smash him and ultimately defeated Akainu. Yes, WB did take life threatening damage but the WIN goes to sick unhealthy WB.
Now imagine if WB vs Akainu in a true 1v1, with old WB not being unhealthy or sick or "off meds". WB would win over and over again.

Marco can handle the Admirals but not defeat them.

The thing with Kid and Law is that they are NOT Yonko level individually neither combined, with or without awakenings.
Their awakenings aren't necessarily a power up/transformation like Luffy's awakening or even Gear transformations.
People fail to see the circumstances that led to Law and Kid to win over BM. BM is stupid power house, and even together they could not face her and defeat her straight on. They had to use their environment and surroundings to win,

Take not, just because you win a fight doesn't necessarily mean you are stronger than that person, especially in OP.

 

[XXGenesis]

Honestly ODA has so many caveats in his fights. The Power scailing is gonna be inconsistent.

We may have to use High/Mid/Low because it’s getting very very muddled.

Kidd/Law are Low Yonkou lv. Look at it from this perspective….Yes they were a duo using combination attacks, & creating openings for each other. However They both endured the beating they took from Big Mom; They both had the stamina to keep using their awakenings to give them a win; They both have multiple ways of hurting & doing significant damage to a Yonkou; YC1 can’t do this…YC1+ Have the means to hurt and survive for a time against a Yonkou, but it’s not a long fight….They are Low Yonkou’s. Big was a High/Mid lv Yonkou.

 

[M3J]

Yeah but did you read the situation at the time of their fight? WB was unhealthy, sick, old and not at his best (I'm not talking about Prime WB) when he arrived at MF. Crocodile and Marcos noticed that WB was failing, especially due to the lack of Haki. WB did not use CoO (could not dodge Squardo) and he could not use CoC (to incapacitate the executioners). WB was not his true self. WB then got a heart attack in the middle of the fight and Akainu capitalized on that and that secure a good hit on WB. Then in their 2nd round, WB straight knocked Akainu out of the playing field, had Akainu still being around I'm 100% sure WB would have continued to smash him and ultimately defeated Akainu. Yes, WB did take life threatening damage but the WIN goes to sick unhealthy WB.
Now imagine if WB vs Akainu in a true 1v1, with old WB not being unhealthy or sick or "off meds". WB would win over and over again.

Marco can handle the Admirals but not defeat them.

The thing with Kid and Law is that they are NOT Yonko level individually neither combined, with or without awakenings.
Their awakenings aren't necessarily a power up/transformation like Luffy's awakening or even Gear transformations.
People fail to see the circumstances that led to Law and Kid to win over BM. BM is stupid power house, and even together they could not face her and defeat her straight on. They had to use their environment and surroundings to win,

Take not, just because you win a fight doesn't necessarily mean you are stronger than that person, especially in OP.

Yeah, but Whitebeard was still having trouble with Akainu and the other two admirals whereas he was mowing through others easily. He had issues doing some things, but he was still able to fight Akainu well enough.

I doubt Whitebeard would have defeated Akainu. Prime Whitebeard, most likely so, but not sick Whitebeard. Akainu kept coming back for more and was still able to fight.

 

[albertwv]

Honestly ODA has so many caveats in his fights. The Power scailing is gonna be inconsistent.

We may have to use High/Mid/Low because it’s getting very very muddled.

Kidd/Law are Low Yonkou lv. Look at it from this perspective….Yes they were a duo using combination attacks, & creating openings for each other. However They both endured the beating they took from Big Mom; They both had the stamina to keep using their awakenings to give them a win; They both have multiple ways of hurting & doing significant damage to a Yonkou; YC1 can’t do this…YC1+ Have the means to hurt and survive for a time against a Yonkou, but it’s not a long fight….They are Low Yonkou’s. Big was a High/Mid lv Yonkou.

Disagree on Law or Kid being Low Yonko level. Both of them and Luffy were able to keep coming back up due to PLOT armor, yes I know people hate that but it is true.
Both Law and Kid had to use their awakening to damage Big Mom, but ultimately could not defeat her, without having to basically throw her off Onigashima and have a volcano eruption blast her. They both took her out of the playing field and had outside interference in order to win the battle. I would not count that as a win for neither of them.
It was annoying that each time both Kid and Law were like "okay this is my last move" or "I can't stand up no more" and then they would get up attack and then go down and repeat. IT happened a dew times where it looked like they were at their last breath but they kept getting up. It was annoying.

Oda only allowed them to "defeat" BM so he could get rid of a huge plot hole AND to level them up to be considered as "Luffy's rivals/equals", more proof is on how they all received the same bounty even though, it was clear that Luffy is the most dangerous one among the 3.
Not hating on Kid or Law, but they are not low Yonko level just yet.

 

[Fox666]

Prime Roger=WB > or = Prime Garp
Prime Sengoku is #4….Same High Yonkou/Admiral Tier.

Current Garp/Sengoku < Kaido; Shanks; Akainu IMO
Kidd/Law are Low Yonkou with their awakenings.
Kidd/Law are Low Yonkou with their awakenings.

Is there anything against Garp being the strongest in the world?

Kaido titles were very strange, "strongest creature" or "strongest pirate" doesn't exclude Garp

Even compared to Whitebeard, wasn't his title of "strongest man" something from the past?

Supposedly Garp was close to Whitebeard in the past, but in Marineford, Whitebeard was in life support, doesn't that objectively places Garp above Whitebeard at the time?

 

[XXGenesis]

Disagree on Law or Kid being Low Yonko level. Both of them and Luffy were able to keep coming back up due to PLOT armor, yes I know people hate that but it is true.
Both Law and Kid had to use their awakening to damage Big Mom, but ultimately could not defeat her, without having to basically throw her off Onigashima and have a volcano eruption blast her. They both took her out of the playing field and had outside interference in order to win the battle. I would not count that as a win for neither of them.
It was annoying that each time both Kid and Law were like "okay this is my last move" or "I can't stand up no more" and then they would get up attack and then go down and repeat. IT happened a dew times where it looked like they were at their last breath but they kept getting up. It was annoying.

Oda only allowed them to "defeat" BM so he could get rid of a huge plot hole AND to level them up to be considered as "Luffy's rivals/equals", more proof is on how they all received the same bounty even though, it was clear that Luffy is the most dangerous one among the 3.
Not hating on Kid or Law, but they are not low Yonko level just yet.

I understood all you’ve wrote.
you are left with a few reasonable deductions…

1)
Awakening takes up a lot of stamina; Law/Kidd pushed passed those limits..Dialogue & feats prove this..

2)
They would have still won without the Bombs. BM was falling hard to her L regardless with no way to stop her fall.

or

3)
We know Oda’s manga better than him. So it’s WIS & WIS….

4)
Wano is just bad. & inconsistent in comparison to the rest of the manga.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 3, 2022, Original Post Date: Nov 3, 2022 ---

Is there anything against Garp being the strongest in the world?

Kaido titles were very strange, "strongest creature" or "strongest pirate" doesn't exclude Garp

Even compared to Whitebeard, wasn't his title of "strongest man" something from the past?

Supposedly Garp was close to Whitebeard in the past, but in Marineford, Whitebeard was in life support, doesn't that objectively places Garp above Whitebeard at the time?

Where in the manga does it ever say that Garp was the strongest in the world? Because that’s the only way for me to have something against him and that claim.

Titles are only strange because there are characters still relative to those holding those titles. But they aren’t wrong.

Garp is older than WB. & he’s still old. You can’t convince me about these old era characters stamina…Exerting themselves on that lv is a lot for them. They will lost against Shanks or Kaido. Characters who don’t have that problem.

 

[albertwv]

I understood all you’ve wrote.
you are left with a few reasonable deductions…

1)
Awakening takes up a lot of stamina; Law/Kidd pushed passed those limits..Dialogue & feats prove this..

2)
They would have still won without the Bombs. BM was falling hard to her L regardless with no way to stop her fall.

or

3)
We know Oda’s manga better than him. So it’s WIS & WIS….

4)
Wano is just bad. & inconsistent in comparison to the rest of the manga.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 3, 2022, Original Post Date: Nov 3, 2022 ---

Where in the manga does it ever say that Garp was the strongest in the world? Because that’s the only way for me to have something against him and that claim.

Titles are only strange because there are characters still relative to those holding those titles. But they aren’t wrong.

Garp is older than WB. & he’s still old. You can’t convince me about these old era characters stamina…Exerting themselves on that lv is a lot for them. They will lost against Shanks or Kaido. Characters who don’t have that problem.

Law and Kid did indeed surpassed their limits but I think somebody mentioned that Law and Kid are stronger due to their awakenings as if it a transformation. I wouldn't necessarily call their awakenings or even DD and Kata's as a "power up/transformation". It seems the power up/transformation from Awakening is for Zoans, but even so Zoans already get a power up from their own regular transformations.
Aside from the weird DF Luffy has, his Gear "transformations" are indeed power ups and his Awakening to Nika is an indeed power up.
But in the case of Law and Kid, at least IMO, it seems like their awakenings are just extra abilities, that do not necessarily boost their attack power.

Law's awakening "K-Room or R-Room" allows him to attack from the inside, but it seems with "gamma knife" he was already able to do that. In anything, his PH Mountain Slash was way more impressive, wished Oda would had replicated that again.
Kid's awakening, "Assign" and "Damned Punk" (the cannon which I don't think is part of the Awakening), where not power up/transformations.
What I am trying to say is that their attack or defense or speed or overall stats did not increase due to their awakenings. While it seems that for Luffy it did and maybe somehow for the ID Jailer Beasts but we have little to no information on them.

No way am I bashing Kid or Law, I have high hopes for them and honestly was disappointed in their awakenings, Oda dropped the ball on that.

Garp, is a mystery. I'd like to think Prime Roger = Prime WB =/> Prime Garp =/> Prime Sengoku = Prime Shiki. But keep in mind, Garp was stated to "corner the PK several times". What does that mean? Pre TS, Smoker was able to corner AND defeat Luffy a few times.
Imo, prime Garp > Yonko Kaido/Bm/Shanks/Old WB.
Yonko Kaido/Shanks/BM/Old WB > Admirals >/= Old Garp/Rayleigh > YC1s.

 

[Fox666]

But keep in mind, Garp was stated to "corner the PK several times". What does that mean?

In the context, I think it means strength.

Add the Rocks defeat, I think it's safe to say it was strength.

Pre TS, Smoker was able to corner AND defeat Luffy a few times.

Smokes was strong, and that includes his Logia ability.

 

[Core D. Roy]

It was annoying that each time both Kid and Law were like "okay this is my last move" or "I can't stand up no more" and then they would get up attack and then go down and repeat. IT happened a dew times where it looked like they were at their last breath but they kept getting up. It was annoying.

Law taking repeated point-blank punches from an enraged Big Mom was just incredibly stupid. Then again, Tama and Speed were just fine a couple days after meeting Kaidou in an open field. Emperors really losing reputation points because they're in One Piece of all stories and can't actually be SHOWN as vicious as we're TOLD they are. We're a couple years out from Akainu dumping a volcano on Chopper who just needs some bandages afterward.

 

[albertwv]

Law taking repeated point-blank punches from an enraged Big Mom was just incredibly stupid. Then again, Tama and Speed were just fine a couple days after meeting Kaidou in an open field. Emperors really losing reputation points because they're in One Piece of all stories and can't actually be SHOWN as vicious as we're TOLD they are. We're a couple years out from Akainu dumping a volcano on Chopper who just needs some bandages afterward.

Oh please don't jinx OP lol.
Wano did not do justice for the Yonko. Big Mom almost killed a Big Castle Bege with 2 punches, yet both Kid and Law were able to handle so many of those and in her last moments, BM was using CoA (finally) against Law and he was just tanking them like whatever even though a few panels before he was "on his last move".
Kaido and Speed, don't even mention that. That was stupid. Idk what the purpose of that was.

Honestly, Oda overhyped the Yonko. He should have just left BM out of Wano and handled her a different way, but instead he chose to get rid of the Yonko all in one go and rushed their battles. The Bullet fight was a better fight. It showed Luffy teaming up with strong characters to injure Bullet and with Luffy ultimately 1v1 at the end and winning. I seriously thought that Oda was going to have all the supernova in Wano team to fight Kaido and with Luffy finishing the fight.

In the context, I think it means strength.
Add the Rocks defeat, I think it's safe to say it was strength
Smoke was strong, and that includes his Logia ability.

It definelty means strength but does it mean that prime Garp > Prime Roger?
God Valley incident was actually confusing. Even though this was during presumably Prime Roger and Prime Garp and Prime Rocks, Rocks had young Kaido, Young BM, Young WB and other strong pirates who were presumably in their prime.
It is unclear how the fight went down, because it seems that Rocks was Roger's greatest foe, insinuating that Rocks > Roger and that it took both Roger and Garp to defeat Rocks. So what happened to the rest of the Rocks pirates? Where they just sidelined allowing their captain to fight both Roger and Garp? Most likely but not possible.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

It definelty means strength but does it mean that prime Garp > Prime Roger?
God Valley incident was actually confusing. Even though this was during presumably Prime Roger and Prime Garp and Prime Rocks, Rocks had young Kaido, Young BM, Young WB and other strong pirates who were presumably in their prime.
It is unclear how the fight went down, because it seems that Rocks was Roger's greatest foe, insinuating that Rocks > Roger and that it took both Roger and Garp to defeat Rocks. So what happened to the rest of the Rocks pirates? Where they just sidelined allowing their captain to fight both Roger and Garp? Most likely but not possible.

I think the God Valley incident had some moral dilemma in the middle of it all, something like Rocks planning to kill someone innocent for power. That's why Roger a pirate and Garp a marine ended up working together. At the same time we've been told that the Rocks pirates were always struggling with in fighting. So I'm guessing during God Valley that the Rocks crew actually fought internally causing them to weaken. My bet is Whitebeard fought on Roger/Garp side since he is also narratively a "good guy."

 

[albertwv]

Finally watched OP Film Red, disappointed.
The RHP scenes were good but expected better. I guess Oda is still saving them for later to show off their skills.
The whole Yassopp and Kata being able to see a different dimension was plainly stupid. Gave us context that Yasopp may have great CoO, hopefully Future sight.
Beckman wielding a rifle isn't impressive. I wonder what we'll see from him if he truly is equal to Shanks
Nothing on Lucky.
Shanks getting his face damaged by random civilians was absolutely stupid. I know he wasn't intending on harming them, but for a random civilian to be able to ultimately scruff up Shank's is downright dumb.

Props to Kizaru for not entirely backing down in front of Shanks.

 

[Smack D. Rebel]

Honestly, Oda overhyped the Yonko. He should have just left BM out of Wano and handled her a different way, but instead he chose to get rid of the Yonko all in one go and rushed their battles. The Bullet fight was a better fight. It showed Luffy teaming up with strong characters to injure Bullet and with Luffy ultimately 1v1 at the end and winning. I seriously thought that Oda was going to have all the supernova in Wano team to fight Kaido and with Luffy finishing the fight.

I partially agree with this, at least when it comes to Shanks. His hype is on a entirely different level than those of the other Yonkou's. We'll see if there's a cannonical explanation for this, or he's simply like that because of his connection to Luffy as a role model/etc.


As for the others, I think the fandom overhyped the Yonkou based off the marineford arc and Whitebeard's hype.

I fully expect that Akainu will pose more of a threat than Kaidou and Big mom did, with exception of BB's crew.

 

[albertwv]

I partially agree with this, at least when it comes to Shanks. His hype is on a entirely different level than those of the other Yonkou's. We'll see if there's a cannonical explanation for this, or he's simply like that because of his connection to Luffy as a role model/etc.


As for the others, I think the fandom overhyped the Yonkou based off the marineford arc and Whitebeard's hype.

I fully expect that Akainu will pose more of a threat than Kaidou and Big mom did, with exception of BB's crew.

NAH, Oda overhyped them the fans just followed along. Here are good examples of how Oda overhyped them:

- The Navy/WG were afraid of one single Yonko pirate crew (WB's) and called in the 7 warlords, all 3 admirals, 100,000 elite marines, set up plenty of traps in their home turf and the Commanding officer Sengoku was still afraid they might lose. That to me showed the might and respect of the Yonkos.
- WB and Kaido were the strongest characters in their time. No mention of Akainu or any Navy sailor being the Worlds Strongest
- Law teamed up with Luffy claiming their was a 30% chance of defeating Kaido if they followed Law's plan
- DD a fearless character was more afraid of dealing with Kaido's wrath than an Admiral's persecution.
- The WG/Navy feared when Shanks and WB were meeting up, thinking that a possible alliance would be catastrophic.
- The WG dared not approach Wano due to Kaido's influence. With Green Bull admitting he wouldn't dare go if Kaido was around.
- Literally nothing was able to harm Kaido or BM's tough skin
- Kaido one shotted Gear 4 Luffy

Oda overhyped them but then I think he made insanely strong that he had to backtrack and make them weaker, as we see how the 9RS and the Supernovas were able to damage Kaido.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

We presumably will not get a full on fight from CP0 this arc but we will definitely be getting some feats out of Lucci, Kaku, and Stussy. Where do people think these 3 CP0 members will place compared to the CP0 agents we saw in Wano? Personally I think Lucci will end up being the strongest CP0 member we have seen to date but I don't think he will have a performance/feats that put him that much higher than we've seen from the two we saw in Wano. I expect Lucci will land somewhere in the YC3-YC1 level at best.

Not sure about Kaku and Stussy but would say they'd be Tobi Roppo level, something like Who's Who. Government agents focus so much more on espionage/assassination etc that they don't fight as much as Marines. Heck most CP agents probably don't even fight pirates often so I have doubt CP0 is going to be as impressive anymore since all the players left are YC1+ to Yonko level now.

 

[grey matter]

We presumably will not get a full on fight from CP0 this arc but we will definitely be getting some feats out of Lucci, Kaku, and Stussy. Where do people think these 3 CP0 members will place compared to the CP0 agents we saw in Wano? Personally I think Lucci will end up being the strongest CP0 member we have seen to date but I don't think he will have a performance/feats that put him that much higher than we've seen from the two we saw in Wano. I expect Lucci will land somewhere in the YC3-YC1 level at best.

Not sure about Kaku and Stussy but would say they'd be Tobi Roppo level, something like Who's Who. Government agents focus so much more on espionage/assassination etc that they don't fight as much as Marines. Heck most CP agents probably don't even fight pirates often so I have doubt CP0 is going to be as impressive anymore since all the players left are YC1+ to Yonko level now.

Kaku and Stussy probably will be YC3 tier, or upper tobiroppo tier

I think Lucci will be YC1+
He is built different compared to other CP agents. He lives to fight, wouldn't pass up any opportunity to fight.

The movies also portrayal Lucci being relative to Sabo. Yes they aren't canon, but I think certain inputs like this comes from Oda