One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[kkck]

I don't think his aim is to keep Blackbeard in check, moreso that he's in a position to do something about him should the need arise and feels comfortable in "following" Blackbeard for that reason. Especially after he accomplishes his own unknown goals.

So... that reads like keeping BB in check.

 

[Pirate Queen]

So... that reads like keeping BB in check.

About to say the same thing

 

[HereNThere]

So... that reads like keeping BB in check.

But it's not his main aim is what I'm saying.

He joined to crew to accomplish his as of yet revealed goal.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I don't think his aim is to keep Blackbeard in check, moreso that he's in a position to do something about him should the need arise and feels comfortable in "following" Blackbeard for that reason. Especially after he accomplishes his own unknown goals.

That's just "keeping BB in check" with extra steps

--- Double Post Merged, May 2, 2023, Original Post Date: May 2, 2023 ---

But it's not his main aim is what I'm saying.

He joined to crew to accomplish his as of yet revealed goal.

Shanks goal is to be a snitch for the Gorosei confirmed already

 

[HereNThere]

That's just "keeping BB in check" with extra steps

Fine, sure, I guess. I think Kuzan is equal to or stronger than Blackbeard because he feels he could take him out at anytime while using him to accomplish his goal.

To me, it'd make narrative sense if that were the case. At least, that's how I worked it out in my mind. I don't think I got the idea across as well as I could have though.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Fine, sure, I guess. I think Kuzan is equal to or stronger than Blackbeard because he feels he could take him out at anytime while using him to accomplish his goal.

To me, it'd make narrative sense if that were the case. At least, that's how I worked it out in my mind. I don't think I got the idea across as well as I could have though.

I was just messing with you. It was a Rick and Morty reference. My favorite show right now

 

[albertwv]

I secretly believe Aokiji is part of SWORD and went undercover and is indeed monitoring BB. But we'll see what happens.
BB may have more destructive power and stronger AP but in combat skills and intelligent he lacks and Aokiji is better.
So far we only know BB has CoA, him having CoC is debatable and waiting to see more proof of it.

I do hope the ID prisoner commanders show off their skills versus Garp and we get to see how dangerous they really are. Was disappointed in how easily Aokiji froze them not once but TWICE.

 

[kkck]

But it's not his main aim is what I'm saying.

He joined to crew to accomplish his as of yet revealed goal.

I mean, I definitely agree with the idea that kuzan is there for his own goals. And while I don't think he is there to keep BB in check he probably wouldn't get on board of some of the comically evil stuff the BB pirates could potentially engage in. Considering that he did warn smoker about doflamingo I think kuzan is with the BB pirates to get a better look at the pirating world. Probably to keep tabs on which yonko could potentially get ahead in reaching OP. A seat as BB's executive is just a confy position to look at that. Kuzan ultimately didn't quit the marines because of the WG but rather because of akainu...

--- Double Post Merged, May 2, 2023, Original Post Date: May 2, 2023 ---

I secretly believe Aokiji is part of SWORD and went undercover and is indeed monitoring BB. But we'll see what happens.
BB may have more destructive power and stronger AP but in combat skills and intelligent he lacks and Aokiji is better.
So far we only know BB has CoA, him having CoC is debatable and waiting to see more proof of it.

I do hope the ID prisoner commanders show off their skills versus Garp and we get to see how dangerous they really are. Was disappointed in how easily Aokiji froze them not once but TWICE.

To me it's unclear whether high ranking marines can be members of sword. The whole point of sword is that the WG has plausible deniability regarding their shenanigans. But getting to the VA or admiral level it sounds rather absurd that the world government would have that. Even in the past few chapters garp was said to have taken sword to beehive island but he wasn't referred to as a member.

 

[albertwv]

To me it's unclear whether high ranking marines can be members of sword. The whole point of sword is that the WG has plausible deniability regarding their shenanigans. But getting to the VA or admiral level it sounds rather absurd that the world government would have that. Even in the past few chapters garp was said to have taken sword to beehive island but he wasn't referred to as a member.

Yeah the highest we've seen is a Rear Admiral I think... and that was Drake and Prince Guru. Drake was the captain of SWORD. So maybe my Aokiji being part of SWORD theory may not be true, but im still betting on it.

 

[kkck]

Something I've been wondering...

We have seen 3 zoan awakenings where the user is not taken over by his animals half: Luffy, lucci and kaku. In this three instances of zoan awakening we have seen a ribbon of sorts that forms around the user. Which perhaps makes this a distinct characteristic of awakening.

That said, it's not the first time we have seen that ribbon. It has also been present through luffy's gear 4 variations. And while fighting luffy kaido noted luffy's ability to change the trajectory of his punches is not something rubber should be able to do. Meanwhile in gear 5 we see that luffy gets an extreme ability to simply will his body into a variety of shapes. Also worth noting, luffy's gear 4 forms resembles gods or deities that have at times been recognized (mostly hyoguro). So... I think the implication here is that gear 4 to begin with was at least partially tapping into awakening. I also wondered if they were perhaps like chopper's alternate forms but luffy needed sort of... mechanical help to actually achieve his forms. WIth gear 5 this is a non issue of course but gear 4 (and 2 and 3) were the result of luffy pumping himself full of air (welp, not gear 2 but he did use his legs to increase his bloodflow).

 

[DeadlyBeast]

I think at the moment in the story BB > Aokiji. The gap between them though is probably very small, something like a Roger v Ray, Luffy v Zoro, etc kind of thing. So even if BB can take out Aokiji it will be a pyrrhic victory.

Since Aokiji's motives are unclear I think the only reasons BB is okay with him the crew is (1) Unlike Aokiji BB is not alone so if a battle broke out the numbers disadvantage could screw Aokiji over especially since all it would take is BB grabbing him once with his powers and someone else can inflict the fatal attack and (2) the way the BB Pirates are set up mirrors Rocks crew in that they aren't actually friends and more of a band of frenemies that just happen to share a goal at the moment.

I expect that BB will get even more powerful during this arc making the difference between him and Aokiji significant. I'm also not under the impression that Aokiji has some ulterior motive specific to BB and his crew. I think whatever Aokiji wants could have been accomplished without joining the BB pirates but like BB said as long as being part of the crew benefits him he should join. They don't have to be friends or even like each other.

Ultimately I suspect the downfall of the BB pirates will mirror the downfall of Rocks. Once push comes to shove I don't think the crew will be able to stay loyal to each other and may start backstabbing. It is in Teach's very nature to create a crew of people like him that are willing to stab friends in the back for their own selfish desires.

 

[LadyVados]

Huh? Who destroyed a town in enies lobby? And who has destroyed an island with an attack except for the ancient weapon?

Lucci and Luffy destroyed a city sized building.

Bajrang Gun ? Hiryu Kaen ?

Lol why are you getting salty with Garp, of all people? I have absolutely no idea how you keep on hating every character that isn’t Zoro tbh. Shouldn’t you be glad that we’re finally seeing Shanks and Garp fight?
How can you even enjoy this manga when the only character you care about has a feat once every 70 chapters or so, and a proper fight only once an arc?

I've said many times before... I'm not a One Piece fan. I'm a Zoro fan. One Piece as a manga doesn't interest me.

That is why I still have not read WCI, during the 2 years WCI was happening I didn't even take part in the OP community because One Piece without Zoro holds no interest for me. Also why I'm only active on One Piece forums when something relevant to Zoro is happening.

 

[Bandit99]

Lucci and Luffy destroyed a city sized building.

Bajrang Gun ? Hiryu Kaen ?

I disagree but to each their own

 

[Rein Avara]

I've said many times before... I'm not a One Piece fan. I'm a Zoro fan. One Piece as a manga doesn't interest me.

That is why I still have not read WCI, during the 2 years WCI was happening I didn't even take part in the OP community because One Piece without Zoro holds no interest for me. Also why I'm only active on One Piece forums when something relevant to Zoro is happening.

You should probably find a Zoro only forum then in that regard.

 

[Idkwhatanameis]

It’s funny how who’s who and sasaki wanted queens position. He was a weak commander considering Sanjis fight was much easier than Zoro’s. Why not pick Jack ? I know they had personal problems with Queen but I believe they possibly had a chance.

Also Jimbei would of fodderized him

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I think at the moment in the story BB > Aokiji. The gap between them though is probably very small, something like a Roger v Ray, Luffy v Zoro, etc kind of thing. So even if BB can take out Aokiji it will be a pyrrhic victory.

Since Aokiji's motives are unclear I think the only reasons BB is okay with him the crew is (1) Unlike Aokiji BB is not alone so if a battle broke out the numbers disadvantage could screw Aokiji over especially since all it would take is BB grabbing him once with his powers and someone else can inflict the fatal attack and (2) the way the BB Pirates are set up mirrors Rocks crew in that they aren't actually friends and more of a band of frenemies that just happen to share a goal at the moment.

I expect that BB will get even more powerful during this arc making the difference between him and Aokiji significant. I'm also not under the impression that Aokiji has some ulterior motive specific to BB and his crew. I think whatever Aokiji wants could have been accomplished without joining the BB pirates but like BB said as long as being part of the crew benefits him he should join. They don't have to be friends or even like each other.

Ultimately I suspect the downfall of the BB pirates will mirror the downfall of Rocks. Once push comes to shove I don't think the crew will be able to stay loyal to each other and may start backstabbing. It is in Teach's very nature to create a crew of people like him that are willing to stab friends in the back for their own selfish desires.

Okay why do folks think Ray and roger were close ? I don’t think there’s anything in the manga implies that
And I thnk ray is dumb strong but he’s not even hyped as much as oden
Same thing with current luffy and Zoro , the gap atm is pretty good . Luffy is significantly better at all 3 forms of haki especially COC and COO

 

[Pirate Queen]

I've said many times before... I'm not a One Piece fan. I'm a Zoro fan. One Piece as a manga doesn't interest me.

That is why I still have not read WCI, during the 2 years WCI was happening I didn't even take part in the OP community because One Piece without Zoro holds no interest for me. Also why I'm only active on One Piece forums when something relevant to Zoro is happening.

Holy shit. I had to sit through you arguing that Zoro>Whitebeard and King>Big Mom and you didn't even read the manga.

This explains so much

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Okay why do folks think Ray and roger were close ? I don’t think there’s anything in the manga implies that
And I thnk ray is dumb strong but he’s not even hyped as much as oden
Same thing with current luffy and Zoro , the gap atm is pretty good . Luffy is significantly better at all 3 forms of haki especially COC and COO

I think it's heavily implied that Rayleigh is at that level of fighter i.e. Yonko level. I think Oden was weaker than Rayleigh even at his peak but even if not they were both in Yonko level territory. It's heavily implied that Rayleigh has multiple forms of advanced haki (I'd wager he has all 3 advanced forms), and the physical feats he has accomplished as an old man are pretty insane too. And most recently he even said he'd lose to current BB (a Yonko) only because he is old which means a Young Rayleigh would beat current BB which to me for sure places Rayleigh at Yonko fighter strength.

And at the end of the day once a character is a Yonko level fighter they are going to be a challenging fight for even the top of the top. As strong as Roger was I do not think defeating a Yonko level fighter would be easy for him so if Ray could give Roger at least a mid-diff fight I'd say that Roger and Ray are close to each other. This is the reason Rayleigh is called "The Dark King", since Roger is King of Pirates in the light and Rayleigh is the King in the Shadows.

This is very different from most other crews. Look at the BM pirates, not a single Sweet Commander could challenge BM in a 1v1 and give her a mid-diff. They'd all lose pretty easily. Similarly look at BP, not even King could give Kaido a challenge in a 1v1. Same thing for WB, Marco may last a while due to regeneration but WB would easily mop the floor with him. So for me crews like Rogers, Shanks, and Luffy where the second strongest in the crew can actually give a decent mid-diff fight to their captain is special.

 

[grey matter]

Okay why do folks think Ray and roger were close ? I don’t think there’s anything in the manga implies that
And I thnk ray is dumb strong but he’s not even hyped as much as oden
Same thing with current luffy and Zoro , the gap atm is pretty good . Luffy is significantly better at all 3 forms of haki especially COC and COO

Rayliegh was hyped as a legend by Garp along the same line as Whitebeard, that the navy can't afford to battle at the same time.

Old Rayleigh matched Kizaru in combat, while not having touched a sword in a decade. While it's implied that he likely would lose, the fact that Kizaru also backed away implies a high-extreme diff at least.

Old Rayleigh chased away Yonko Blackbeard. Again, while it's implied Rayleigh would likely lose, Blackbeard running away makes no sense except in the context that it would've been a high-extreme diff at least, again.

Prime Rayleigh has the portrayal good enough to be a solid Yonko level character. His feats in his old age suggest the same as well. Prime Rayleigh for sure is stronger than Big Mom, though I wouldn't have him as strong as Kaido. He's probably as strong as Shanks.
I don't think Roger can take down any Yonko or OG admiral in less than a high diff, so same should be true for prime Rayleigh too.

--- Double Post Merged, May 5, 2023, Original Post Date: May 5, 2023 ---

I've said many times before... I'm not a One Piece fan. I'm a Zoro fan. One Piece as a manga doesn't interest me.

That is why I still have not read WCI, during the 2 years WCI was happening I didn't even take part in the OP community because One Piece without Zoro holds no interest for me. Also why I'm only active on One Piece forums when something relevant to Zoro is happening.

Was this the case when you started watching too? I find it hard to believe you watched since day 1 because of Zoro lmao

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Was this the case when you started watching too? I find it hard to believe you watched since day 1 because of Zoro lmao

Well Zoro did show up in ep2...

Guessing this is the moment Vados fell in love with his character.