One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Ginopastino]

Luffy fought against Fujitora without Gear 4 and still didn't really lose, that could be considered a good feat. .

Fujitora wasn't even remotely trying.

 

[Enima]

Fujitora wasn't even remotely trying.

Luffy wasn't even using Gear 4th.... and he was telling Fujitora his every move in advance. I kjow Fujitora wasn't fully trying, but Luffy was literally helping Fujitora.

 

[Ginopastino]

Sure, you made a fair point there. However, just look at him lifting basically a whole island up in the air without breaking a sweat. Do you see Luffy surviving that?

Moreover, Gear 4th is, at the moment, the very best Luffy can do, and for a very short time at that. God knows what Fujitora is able to do if he commits to it - the guy's scale of power is off the charts.

 

[Enima]

Sure, you made a fair point there. However, just look at him lifting basically a whole island up in the air without breaking a sweat. Do you see Luffy surviving that?

Moreover, Gear 4th is, at the moment, the very best Luffy can do, and for a very short time at that. God knows what Fujitora is able to do if he commits to it - the guy's scale of power is off the charts.

Fujiitora didn't pick up the whole Island, he picked up the debris left from the battle. It could be easily destroyed by king kong gun

Spoiler

Gear 4th lasted for 20 minutes even though Luffy was exhausted. Normally he could probably maintain it for even longer than that.

 

[XXGenesis]

I'm confused to what the debate is?? As to where you guys are scailing Luffy or Jack.

My current understanding of the Power Lvs of One Piece is this...

Yonkou = 2 or all 3 Admiral Lv
Yonkou >1 Admaril (Slightly Mid Diff)

 

[I Am Atomic]

Yonkou = 2 or all 3 Admiral Lv

This I don't agree. I think 2 Admirals together will destroy a Yonko. No kidding.

Admirals are the top dogs of the Marines. WB himself couldn't handle more than a single one at a time. When I bring that up, some say how WB took out Akainu in 10 seconds. If someone look from Akainu's point of view, then you will see that Akainu was caught off guard. Even after that disadvantage, Akainu got the upper hand and blew half of WB's face off and gave him a second hole to his chest. In that exchange, WB got 1 hit, while Akainu got 2. Then WB being the beast he is, beat the shit out of Akainu. Imagine, if there was no crack on the ground, Akainu would have died sure but WB will also die to due to his injuries later. A fight against an Admiral will always be a hard fought one.
And WB was considered the strongest! Admirals are no joke.

So IMO, Yonko's are slightly stronger than the Admirals. If they fight carefully, then they can win avoiding death. However, they wouldn't be able to fight another Admiral straight after that and win.

Commanders. I consider them to be very weak compared to Admirals. Ofc, there are exceptions. An injured Akainu was able to hold off against all of WB commanders (minus Jozu) + Crocodile.
Commanders cannot defeat Admirals.

I am not including BB pirates because they are the ones who will tip the power level scales off the chart. I also believe that Luffy and Zoro will reach Admiral level near the end, so they need Admiral level opponents, which are the BB pirates.

 

[XXGenesis]

The old Admirals were pretty experienced, already Young men in Roger Days. Any one of them could be Fleet Admiral. So their power scailing, I think is going to be different from Fujirota & Greenbull. Who I think will be immensely strong but will have room to grow.

WB was injured & sickly. No other Yonkou is prohibited by health issues, or serious injury ex Large sword through chest. WB's Era was already at its close. So yea he could probably beat the strongest ppl but with High Difficulty if you ask me. I overall as a Yonkou he just edged them out in territory, alliances Etc etc...

Sakuzuki aside, I don't see any of them taking out BM 1 vs 1. & If it was 1 vs 2 I still see her putting up a good fight.

If Yonkou commanders 1 v 1 can deter an Admiral & survive, 2 commanders should be able to pull a win.

EX. Marco & Jozu vs Kuzen....Jozu by himself we seen tackle Kuzen & hurt him, still yet he lost an arm in their duel. Add in Marco & I see Jozu still with an arm. & Kuzen on the ropes, dealing with 2 capable opponents.

As for a Yonkou vs 2 Admirals. Of course that fight wouldn't be ideal. Admirals are the Marine's Biggest Guns. But I don't see a Yonkou easily surcumbing even to those odds.

 

[BigBadDogg]

I'm confused to what the debate is?? As to where you guys are scailing Luffy or Jack.

My current understanding of the Power Lvs of One Piece is this...

Yonkou = 2 or all 3 Admiral Lv
Yonkou >1 Admaril (Slightly Mid Diff)

I currently believe it's more like this

S = Yonkou
S- = Admirals
A+ = Shichibukai, Yonkou Commanders & Top Fighters in Other Crews and RA.
A = Supernovas (Worst Generation), Shichibukai, Yonkou Commanders & Top Fighters in Other Crews and RA
A- = Sanji, Shichibukai, Top Fighters in Other Crews and RA
B+ = Shichibukai

NB. Dragon would be, on hype only, S- to S.

I believe that fighters in each grade can fight and win against one standard deviation above them with difficulty or help. And can survive blows from 3 deviations higher than them, without dying.

I also think a Yonkou can beat 2 Admirals with difficulty. Whitebeard was not a good example of Yonkou powers as he was sickly....

 

[XXGenesis]

I would go with Bounties & Context from the manga To sort out the Lvs.

We know 100+ Makes you SuperNova Lv. I would have to say that's Mr.1 Lv & Up.

Then you have reasonably High Bounties 150-300M. I think that's where pacifista's & Rob Lucci stand. & Weak War Lords..I.E. Crocodile, Gecko Moria. & Captains of the Worst Generation.

Then you have the New World esque Bounties. 350M-Under 800M These Pirates most likely know or use some type of Haki, at this point. Pacifista's get thrashed, Mountains & castle tops start to get sliced off. & Destroyed. This is where the brunt of the War Lords power stay IMO.
Boa, Doffy, Kuma & current Worst generation Captains.

Then you have 800M-1.5B. Where at this point your A Yonkou Commander Lv or possible soon to be Yonkou candidate, if you qualify for the other credentials the role carries.

 

[BigBadDogg]

I agree. Only would change 350 million to over 300 million. Zoro can stand with stand against most of the Worst Generation Captains

 

[Enima]

I'm confused to what the debate is?? As to where you guys are scailing Luffy or Jack.

I think Fujitora > Luffy >> Jack

Admirals are the top dogs of the Marines. WB himself couldn't handle more than a single one at a time. When I bring that up, some say how WB took out Akainu in 10 seconds. If someone look from Akainu's point of view, then you will see that Akainu was caught off guard. Even after that disadvantage, Akainu got the upper hand and blew half of WB's face off and gave him a second hole to his chest. In that exchange, WB got 1 hit, while Akainu got 2. Then WB being the beast he is, beat the shit out of Akainu. Imagine, if there was no crack on the ground, Akainu would have died sure but WB will also die to due to his injuries later. A fight against an Admiral will always be a hard fought one.
And WB was considered the strongest! Admirals are no joke.

It's kinda hard to say. WB himself was in a pretty bad shape before he even fought the admirals and also he was holding back since he didn't wan't to destroy the island. After he got pissed and stopped caring about any of that holding back stuff, he took out Akainu in a matter of seconds. Maybe 3 admirals can do it. But 2 admirals wouldn't be enough to take out a yonko unless they're lucky enough.

 

[Kato756]

I think one vital mistake is putting the Yonkou Commander as a whole category, as this has been shown as not the case

 

[LaGOAT]

Youkou>>adrimals that is a fact. Health prime WB and rogers are PK lvl sick old WB is still youkou lvl. Luffy at best is mid tier yonkou commander lvl

 

[M3J]

Dunno, Luffy is unable to beat him so far. Powerful enough that LUffy had to choose a closed off area to fight him.

 

[M3J]

Not in the fight itself, as far as I recall, but he still had help. Without it there wouldn't have been a second fight or escaping the underground room. I think Enel and Lucci were the only strong opponents where LUffy won on his own? And even then debatable if Luffy would have won without Usopp revealing himself and saying he'd take on Lucci.

We most likely are. Moria doesn't count because he cheated while Luffy was at a disadvantage against Hodi underwater. But in this case, while Katakuri may not be superior he does have an advantage in being able to predict Luffy's next moves. Luffy's gonna have to either be unpredictable or amp up his speed without losing power.

 

[Enima]

It's the kind of aura, seriousness and respect of Whitebeard she's missing, mostly because of her food tantrums but even without that she's not the smartest and calculating person. So her power is yonko-worthy but her personality makes me wonder how she managed to come that far. Probably Streusen and others doing a lot.

Yeah, It's hard for a crew to be successful when your own captain is trying to kill you half the time.

Dunno, Luffy is unable to beat him so far. Powerful enough that LUffy had to choose a closed off area to fight him.

He did that to protect the others. It's going to be a destructive fight.

We most likely are. Moria doesn't count because he cheated while Luffy was at a disadvantage against Hodi underwater. But in this case, while Katakuri may not be superior he does have an advantage in being able to predict Luffy's next moves. Luffy's gonna have to either be unpredictable or amp up his speed without losing power.

If Luffy can use G4 then Katakuri won't be able to do anything. Even if you'r good at Observation Haki, you still need the speed to back it up. If Luffy is faster than Katakuri by a reasonable margin then Luffy can win. Cracker's Armament Haki was pretty strong but he didn't have Observation Haki, So I'm guessing Katakuri isn't good with Armament Haki. If that's the case then a couple of Kong Gun's should be enough to take him out.

 

[kkck]

Ah... the thing is Luffy is already doing better against Katakuri than he did against Doflamingo or Cracker. Is he not?. He was able to grab Katakuri and throw him inside and he clearly doesn't seem overwhelmed by Katakuri unlike when he battled Doflamingo or Cracker. Both Cracker and Doflamingo were pretty much untouchable until Luffy went gear 4. Not hating on Katakuri, but it looks like everybody's over hyping him due to his status. Sabo had no trouble beating Burgess , the right hand of Blackbeard.

Marco and katakuri are on the same level because they have the same status?

Like Luffy and Law? They have the same status

Like Buggy and Hawk eye? They also have the same status

I would argue that much is a stretch at least. Katakuri basically allowed luffy to drag him to the mirror world, he can see into the future after all. His objective was met either way. Katakuri's status is by any logic a direct result of his strength. There is no way for katakuri to effectively be big mom's number 2 without the guy actually being the strongest. Can you imagine vista being stronger than marco? That is more or less what you are suggesting here. To add to that, luffy doesn't even have any stamina left. He is royally screwed if he actually has to win to survive. The only chance luffy has is shenanigans happening which move the plot in his favor.

 

[M3J]

Yeah, It's hard for a crew to be successful when your own captain is trying to kill you half the time.


He did that to protect the others. It's going to be a destructive fight.


If Luffy can use G4 then Katakuri won't be able to do anything. Even if you'r good at Observation Haki, you still need the speed to back it up. If Luffy is faster than Katakuri by a reasonable margin then Luffy can win. Cracker's Armament Haki was pretty strong but he didn't have Observation Haki, So I'm guessing Katakuri isn't good with Armament Haki. If that's the case then a couple of Kong Gun's should be enough to take him out.

Which also shows that Katakuri can compete with and challenge Luffy if Luffy had to resort to that.

Wasn't he using Gear 4 and still failed to beat Katakuri on at least one occasion? And yeah, I did say that one way for Luffy to win is to be faster than Katakuri and his prediction ability. Especially if/when Katakuri has comparable spped or reflex.

But if Katakuri is one of the top commanders over other commanders, then it'd make sense if he had Color of Armament as well.

 

[Enima]

I would argue that much is a stretch at least. Katakuri basically allowed luffy to drag him to the mirror world, he can see into the future after all. His objective was met either way. Katakuri's status is by any logic a direct result of his strength. There is no way for katakuri to effectively be big mom's number 2 without the guy actually being the strongest. Can you imagine vista being stronger than marco? That is more or less what you are suggesting here. To add to that, luffy doesn't even have any stamina left. He is royally screwed if he actually has to win to survive. The only chance luffy has is shenanigans happening which move the plot in his favor.

Even Luffy said it himself "understanding it isn't going to help you do something about it". He can see the future, but if he isn't fast enough to act on it, then it's pretty much useless. He isn't number 2, he is a sweet commander who's power and thinking enables him to be a good strategist and therefore people listen to him. He's the brain and Cracker is the muscles. If it was mentioned somewhere that he was the number 2 of the BM pirates, please show me the panel.

We know Marco is stronger because we have proof. He was able to clash head on against the admirals, and only lost because he was distracted. The gorosei mentioned that he was one of the few people capable of taking down black beard. Here, we have cracker, who was pretty much untouchable until Luffy went G4 and Katakuri who couldn't escape elephant Gun.(despite the fact, observation Haki was supposed his specialty). We already know Luffy was struggling against Cracker, he didn't last this long. Luffy isn't struggling here. I'm not assuming anything, Luffy is doing better against Katakuri than he did against Cracker.

Which also shows that Katakuri can compete with and challenge Luffy if Luffy had to resort to that.

Uh.... yeah I agree with that. He's a yonko commander, he must be pretty strong. The fight between Doflamingo and Luffy pretty much destroyed a whole city. I expect, the same amount of destruction will be caused by this battle. So, Luffy had no choice.

Wasn't he using Gear 4 and still failed to beat Katakuri on at least one occasion? And yeah, I did say that one way for Luffy to win is to be faster than Katakuri and his prediction ability. Especially if/when Katakuri has comparable spped or reflex.

Nope, he didn't.

Yeah if Katakuri has the speed then he might win. But G4 puts Luffy on another level. For example, Just look at the fight against Doflamingo. Luffy went from being kicked around to being able to fodderize Doflamingo. Unless Katakuri has been hiding his real speed the whole time, I don't see him being able to keep up with Luffy.

But if Katakuri is one of the top commanders over other commanders, then it'd make sense if he had Color of Armament as well.

I'm not saying that he doesn't have the color of Armament. i'm saying it should be quite weak (theoretically).

 

[Enima]

@Enima Who is that supposed to be?

Cracker had better defense than Katakuri but he got one-shotted. So it wouldn't take much to defeat katakuri probably a couple of kong guns. If luffy is fast enough to hit him, then Katakuri's gonna lose.