One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Junior]

I think its unfair to think that any Yonko if far above the other. Their strength is pretty much close as well as the strength of their fleet. We can assume that Whitebeard was a bit above the others since he was an opponent who fought Roger to a standstill, a man who was closest to One piece. He wasnt interested in becoming a Pirate King tho, all he wanted was his family but nonetheless he was a monster who had the power to destroy the world, a man who fought the War of the Best with his heart stabbed from beginning.

Even if there's not a tremendous gulf in power, it is not "unfair" to say that one may be stronger than the other.

There's a weight weighing 10,000lbs and another weight weighing 10,100lbs. Both will crush you but one, clearly, weighs more than another if only by a little bit.

For the story to work it's obvious that their powers must be comparable. Otherwise you'd have one Yonko going around conquering and killing everyone else and the very structure of the OP world hinges on an intricate system of checks and balances.

Whitebard fought Roger to a standstill. All of the other things you stated were true. Yet you're conveniently omitting the two facts:

• He was old.
• He was sick.
• His power had deteriorated.

Whitebeard in his prime wouldn't have fallen at Marineford -- this is indisputable. Yet the fact that he was able, with all of the above being true, to stand on a somewhat even playing field with the Marines and the Yonko shows that he is not weak. That's not what I'm arguing. I'm saying that he was, perhaps, the weakest of the Yonko.

Also keep in mind that I'm using conditional words here. Nothing is set in stone since we haven't even seen Shanks or Kaido fight "seriously".

 

[SirJack]

Are you forgetting the fact he was sick? That likely impacted his strength and rating.

I think you're fixating on the word "weakest". I'm not saying he was weak, I'm saying he was likely the weakest Yonkou -- there's a difference.

It's off topic, but still...

I think the context was different. Whitebeard was sick and was up against much more of a challenge than Big Mom is right now, since he was facing basically the whole Marine Corps, let alone the Admirals. Obviously his dominance was less evident

 

[ZeroBeard]

When I wrote my first reply i didn't see the at his moment of his death. Clearly that changes things. Although he was still a force to be reckoned with he should be weaker than the other three that are on their prime. Although Big Mom is around his age so dunno.

Anyway hope spoilers are fake tbh cause I want to see luffy fighting all out against Katakuri and not a Big Mom hype chapter!

 

[nik87]

@Junior Even tho WB was not as his peak and im not omitting your two(three) facts i dont think he was the weakest, only thing which could have serious impact was the stabbed heart. Even so as said by @SirJack he was facing entire force of the Marines which is a bigger challenge than facing other Yonko.
None of the Yonkos are easy prey for the other Yonko.

Also if you want to compare the strength among the Yonkos we already got an idea what that would look like. Probably same as Admiral vs Admiral, a ferocious battle which lasted 10 days. Thats how close the powers are at that level. There is no clear winner, weakest or strongest, small details decide the outcome.

 

[Junior]

None of the Yonkos are easy prey for the other Yonko.

...That's literally not what I'm saying. I don't know what point you're arguing because that's not what I've said. Perhaps you've @'d the wrong person?

 

[nik87]

If i am seeing it right you quoted me @Junior and gave the right example. 10.000 vs 10.100,but do you think those extra 100 on top of 10.000 make any impact and are noticable? Thats the same when it comes to Yonkos power, there is barely any power gap. I dont think we can say one of them is weakest or weaker than the other.

 

[M3J]

Are you forgetting the fact he was sick? That likely impacted his strength and rating.

I think you're fixating on the word "weakest". I'm not saying he was weak, I'm saying he was likely the weakest Yonkou -- there's a difference.

It definitely impacted his strength, given characters' reactions to Whitebeard getting injured. Even after all that, it's hard to believe he was the weakest Yonkou, at least thanks to his devil fruit. Probably still at the top of the pile, especially with his crew.

Hell, for all we know Whitebeard could have taken out other Yonkou but chose not to.

 

[Junior]

If i am seeing it right you quoted me @Junior and gave the right example. 10.000 vs 10.100,but do you think those extra 100 on top of 10.000 make any impact and are noticable? Thats the same when it comes to Yonkos power, there is barely any power gap. I dont think we can say one of them is weakest or weaker than the other.

Then say that. Don't put arguments in my mouth, lol.

I never said there was a huge gulf in power -- I even mentioned that in my post. What I'm saying is that there are differences (those 100lbs), be it in DF versatility or utility or military presence, that makes me feel comfortable in my statements.

You don't have to believe what I said but, at this moment in time with the information we have since seen, I feel comfortable in my belief that Whitebeard was the weakest Yonko. That doesn't mean I'm taking it to the extremes: I do not believe, nor have I ever believed, that Whitebeard is utter trash to the other three.

 

[Imfamux]

PL in OP
Shichibukai - > Destroy City / Island
Admiral -> Destroy Country / Several Islands / Can change the time and geography forever ( aka Akainu vs Aokiji)
Yonkou -> World Destroyers

This does not mean that, admiral it's far from yonkou PL , bc fightin someone else , is tottaly different from destroying thing's and the world

 

[M3J]

Then say that. Don't put arguments in my mouth, lol.

I never said there was a huge gulf in power -- I even mentioned that in my post. What I'm saying is that there are differences (those 100lbs), be it in DF versatility or utility or military presence, that makes me feel comfortable in my statements.

You don't have to believe what I said but, at this moment in time with the information we have since seen, I feel comfortable in my belief that Whitebeard was the weakest Yonko. That doesn't mean I'm taking it to the extremes: I do not believe, nor have I ever believed, that Whitebeard is utter trash to the other three.

Also, not saying that you said he's weak, just disagreeing that he was even a remotely weak Yonkou out of the four. If that was the case, why would the Marines fear him, or why wouldn't other Yonkou attack him? Even Blackbeard's devil fruit didn't stop Whitebeard like it did Ace, and Ace is no slouch.

It is weird that Kaidou didn't beat or take on Whitebeard, although doing just that would have plunged parts of the world into chaos without Whitebeard's protection.

 

[Muhbaer]

I don't think whitebeard was weaker then the other yonko even with his sickness and age, he said himself, everyone has his own livespan and the rest didn't really matter to him. If he was weaker, then the other yonko would have pushed him from his territory (not necessarily shanks, but kaido or big mom). since they didn't, we can assume, that he wasn't weaker than the rest of the yonko. or, since kaido seems to try to achieve what whitebeard managed to achieve(dying), it is possible, that kaido had a lot of respect for whitebeard, even though he was an enemy. I think in a 1 on 1 fight - whitebeard vs. kaido, whitebeard would have taken serious damage after a while, but then would have come back and beat kaido to a pulp, who would survive being a popato the rest of his life and whitebeard dying because of his predefined lifespan. if they would have fought when whitebeard was young, it would be a win for whitebeard, since kaido would end up like a potato regardless. so the outcome for kaido would be the same, and the outcome for whitebeard would not have been affected by the fight itself, but only by his lifespan. Why do I think so? Because Kaido only tried to take WB's territory the moment he knew Whitebeard was going to Marine Headquarters. And we know that Big Mom didn't try at all.
just my two cents.

 

[nik87]

@Junior Your response makes no sense. What arguments did i put into ur mouth? You said that WB is weakest, i said and u bolded the part that we cant say one is weakest or weaker than the other... We literally saw nothing of Shanks and Kaido and yet you are comfortable saying that WB was weakest...

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Whitebeard in his prime wouldn't have fallen at Marineford -- this is indisputable. Yet the fact that he was able, with all of the above being true, to stand on a somewhat even playing field with the Marines and the Yonko shows that he is not weak. That's not what I'm arguing. I'm saying that he was, perhaps, the weakest of the Yonko.

Also keep in mind that I'm using conditional words here. Nothing is set in stone since we haven't even seen Shanks or Kaido fight "seriously".

Sorry, but this is absolutely untrue. Whitebeard even in that condition was the strongest. If you go back to what Crocodile stated in Impel Down, he said Whitebeard going against the entirety of the Marines was the one and only opportunity for any Pirate on the sea to finally kill Whitebeard. He didn't say Whitebeard in his prime, that's a fan-fiction made fact, but Whitebeard in his current state. Whitebeard's death wasn't necessary for just Blackbeard, but also for Big Mom and Kaido, that's why Kaido took this opportunity to oppose Whitebeard because it'd essentially be Kaido + the Marines against Whitebeard.

No one could claim control of the sea except Whitebeard was dead. That's why Blackbeard made no moves. He could have ventured out to start his own crew and aim to be Pirate King, but as long Whitebeard was around, absolutely no one could become Pirate King. He was like a gate-keeper. Big Mom in this arc stated so, she said had she acquired Elbaph's army, she'd have been able to defeat even Whitebeard because he was in a league of his own even on the day he died.

Oda in SBS also revealed that Whitebeard more or less went to Marineford to die.

That's why when Whitebeard got stabbed by Squardo, Marco recalled Whitebeard taking off his life-support system prematurely and explicitly stating he could easily have evaded such an attack even from an ally in his current state & age despite his illness.

Spoiler

Squardo himself stated he didn't believe he could have landed a blow against Whitebeard.

Spoiler

This is why he wasn't able to fight at the peak of his powers. He went into war without his conditions stabilised by taking off his life support and therefore resigned himself to death. For him, it was a suicide kamikaze mission. By the time he reached Marinford, he was in no condition to fight at all.

Really wasn't a matter of Whitebeard being in his prime, it was a matter of Whitebeard handicapping himself by not stabilising his condition before battle, and subsequently falling. Whitebeard in essence killed himself, not the other way round.

This is why I said just because Big Mom is showing her worth as of now, one shouldn't get carried away; Whitebeard was in a league of his own, completely and utterly.

 

[TrueRaiKage]

These Whitebeard discussions/post are only valid because of BM display of power in the alleged spoilers......with that said....

THE ONLY REASON WE ARE POSTING ABOUT WB IS BECAUSE HE IS THE STANDARD OF POWER IN ONE PIECE. HE IS THE MEASURING STICK OF STRENGTH & ABILITY. THERE HASN'T BEEN ANYONE AS POWERFUL AS HIM SINCE PK. THEY WERE OPPONENTS WHO BATTLED FOR THE TITLE PIRATE KING. WHITEBEARD DIDN'T WANT TO BE PK AFTER RODGER. IT'S CLEAR THAT HE COULD HAVE DEFEATED KIADO & BM....BECAUSE HE DID. SHANKS WASN'T A THREAT TO HIM SO HE DIDN'T HAVE TO DEFEAT HIM.

with that said please Oda let the spineless chef cook the damn cake and end this arc asap plz. It's at that point of "why are we still here". Is Oda trying to prove a point about Yonko power? Is Oda creating a moment to justify growth in SH crews power? Wtf and Wtf are we doing here still?

 

[kkck]

So things get increasingly dire for the strawhats....

As far as luffy vs katakuri goes, I can't see how luffy has a chance. He needs to destroy the mirrors leading to the sunny and then simply get out of there. Luffy could be at 100%, get his awakening and even then he would have no chance against katakuri, the guy is simply that big a monster. Although I could see luffy getting his awakening and using it to land a hit or two and then escape. It's not like awakening is necessarily that big a boost, it probably depends on the fruit... If awakening was always that big a boost then doflamingo getting such a huge boost in battle should have been enough for him to best gear 4 luffy.

As for the strawhats, I can see several scenarios. The first would be that somehow jinbe counters the tsunami. The second one would be that jinbe has those bubbles fishmen use and gives them to the strawhats so that they don't drown. That would mean the sunny could get wrecked though. Another possibility is a second sunny jump just in time.

 

[Fuuji Genichiro]

I can't get how people think Katakuri would be easier to beat that Cracker. Katakuri is everything good about luffy 2x better with the added bonus of being able to see into the future, stick to things like glue, and change shape. It's a complete mismatch and i'd honestly call bullshit if luffy actually wins this fight. This is more one sided than any fight luffy has actually managed to turn around in the fight. There's nothing here luffy can do that katakuri either can't predict in advance or can't physically match/overpower in terms of speed and strength.

Billion berry seems completely justified. Katakuri looks to be admiral level. I hope we see more of him after this arc.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 29, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 29, 2017 ---

I mean luffy's ability to strecth and the ways he uses it have been useful in the way he approached all his other fights. What does he do against a guy who can do the same thing significantly better? He can't improvise nor can he brute force his way through this. Either he gets rescued (jinbe maybe), saved or spared.

 

[jaymizzo]

Whitebeard wasn't the strongest during that war. Whitebeard needed his condition to be constantly stabilized just to function. It's not like he takes a quick shot of stabilizer and is ready to go. he had to stay hooked up to be stabilized so he was in no condition to be fighting period. And there is a panel that perfectly illustrates the assumptions of the Rest of the world and the readers vs what is actually going in whitebeard's mind

Whitebeard knows that he has weakened and is no longer the strongest, however sengoku does not seem to be aware of this. He knows what whitebeard was capable of in the past and is wary that he still has that power. This is why he continues to call him the world's strongest man even though the man himself admits he is not.

You misinterpreted his words. Saying I cannot always be the strongest - "I can't be the strongest forever" does not mean he isn't currently the strongest rather that there will be a time that he will be surpassed.

WB after Rogers death was the strongest pirate even in his weakened state. It took a lot for the marines and BB had to wait for the perfect opportunity to take him on.

You simply have to look at how the fight unfolded, what lengths the marines went to sabotage WB and the hyena like behaviour that BB employed. Or even Kaido going after WB during this time.

BB, Kaido and the Marines were all gunning for WB. Non of the others were willing to take him on unless there was a severe advantage on their side.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 5, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 5, 2017 ---

I can't get how people think Katakuri would be easier to beat that Cracker. Katakuri is everything good about luffy 2x better with the added bonus of being able to see into the future, stick to things like glue, and change shape. It's a complete mismatch and i'd honestly call bullshit if luffy actually wins this fight. This is more one sided than any fight luffy has actually managed to turn around in the fight. There's nothing here luffy can do that katakuri either can't predict in advance or can't physically match/overpower in terms of speed and strength.

Billion berry seems completely justified. Katakuri looks to be admiral level. I hope we see more of him after this arc.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 29, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 29, 2017 ---

I mean luffy's ability to strecth and the ways he uses it have been useful in the way he approached all his other fights. What does he do against a guy who can do the same thing significantly better? He can't improvise nor can he brute force his way through this. Either he gets rescued (jinbe maybe), saved or spared.

A mismatch is having a sniper fighting a swordsman. A strategist fighting a brawler. A brawler Vs a brawler in Luffy Vs Katakuri is not a mismatch.

You are hyping Katakuri up too much

 

[nik87]

I agree that Sanji would kinda fit more as opponent for Katakuri IF Katakuri wasnt so overpowered. Both are kickers and Sanji's flaming legs might be a better fit since Katakuri's DF is food based but Katakuri is a powerful man worth a bounty over a Billion Beri. Even the captain of SHs is struggling against him. What bothers me is that he is not even trying to use gear 4th, at least not yet. Got a feeling that he wont use it at all.

The scene with miror and mouth was a bit strange but yeah, he was trying to hide it from Katakuri and trying not to worry the crew.

@hokageji I dont know why and how you want to fit in Moriah here. Hes quite weak, he needs corpses he can use. I dont know what use he could have here, at this point.

 

[hokageji]

I dont know why and how you want to fit in Moriah here. Hes quite weak, he needs corpses he can use. I dont know what use he could have here, at this point.

People underestimate Moriah quite a lot... I don't think he is as weak as he is shown to be.... He nearly killed Oars Jr in one shot, had a high bounty relatively before it was frozen too. He was also one of the 4 people shown during Roger's execution.... Crocodile, Doffy, Moria and Dragon. When it was said Marines wanted him eliminated, the first theory that popped up was Kaido was behind it.... because Kaido destroyed half of his crew...

I am sure Moria will show up before the Kaido saga, but I am not sure when..... It could be after the escape which is likely, or even after the Kaido arc, but it could also be during this arc.... Hes been operating from the shadows this whole time, no pun intended....

Also, Morias ability takes away reflection. Since it does that, it could nullify Brulee's ability to an extent or probably manipulate it slightly too.... I would prefer its after the arc is over but I will also buy the ending where Luffy's weaker than Katakuri, it may not be as bad as people think it it be.

 

[M3J]

Not a big fan of Sanji fighting Katakuri. Sanji was struggling against Vergo, Sanji he might've won but it looked like Vergo had the Upper hand. Sanji was pretty much fodder against Doflamingo even though DD was just playing with him. If Sanji is able to keep up with Katakuri then there is no reason for why Luffy can't beat Katakuri in G4. Look! I want Sanji to be more powerful too..... but Sanji fighting Katakuri sounds more ridiculous than Luffy taking on the whitebeard pirates all by himself.

Gear 4 Luffy >>>>>>>>>Doflamingo>>>>>>>>>Sanji

Bruh...

Spoiler

How was Sanji struggling against Vergo? Again, despite exhaustion/damage his body took while Nami was occupied, Sanji still fought, fractured his leg, and proceeded to run like he was never injured. And if I recall, the skirmish was short, and Vergo's Color of Armament was considered to be one of the best at the time. Sanji didn't really have a proper fight here.

Again, show me one person who wouldn't have lost against Doflamingo. Sanji came into the fight with little to no information with the intent to save Nami and others. Law, who knew plenty about Doflamingo, still got beaten to shit, as did Luffy despite Law's gamma knife fatally wounding Doflamingo. Luffy would have lost without Law and the gladiators, so I don't see how this takes away from Sanji even though he was tied up by the boss of the arc.

If Gear 4 was enough, Luffy would have used it to beat Katakuri by now.

katakuri > cracker > DD>>>>>sanji. I dont see any reason for sanji to have held himself back against DD.

In fact DD himself wasnt using awakening against sanji.

Luffy's rate of progress is insane coz the kind of opponents he takes on are on a whole another level than those of others.
I dont see smoker , sanji or others being able to catch up or even mantain that gap with luffy coz they arent taking on such strong opponents.

Well, how can Sanji go all out if he's all bound up with strings, which he didn't know about or expect? If this happened to Luffy and he was saved, members would be trying to defend Luffy by claiming he had no knowledge on Doflamingo's abilities. Hell, rereading Sanji vs. Vergo, I don't get where people claim Sanji was even remotely bested by Vergo. Both had priorities, so they likely couldn't keep fighting each other.

Doflamingo even praises Sanji again. And the following page shows us Sanji being shocked he can't move and not knowing why.

Either that or they're the kinds of opponents Luffy is best suited to taking on due to his devil fruit.

They have been left far behind.

Look at what luffy has gone through in dressrosa and in this arc. now compare that to what sanji and zoro went through over these 2 arcs.
More near death situations push him forward. even zoro wont be able to mantain this gap against luffy in future .

Sanji cant do anything in his full strength against katakuri unless katakuri is weakened and thats luffy's job.

Does sanji need brulle's permission to enter the mirror world ? I am just not remembering properly how her powers work .
If thats the case then luffy is on his own.

I dont think even reverie would get completed this year let alone starting of wano.
WCI might end in mid november and then 3 chapters of reverie.

Reverie being an arc must be atleast 10 chapters or so.

Quite debatable. Luffy's probably the only one we've seen go all out, whereas Zoro and Sanji haven't come close to that. Zoro's gone up against weaker opponents while Sanji has either had other priorities, went up against a weak opponent, or was too tied up to fight back.

Even against his dad it took underhanded tactics for Sanji to lose, and even then he chose to lose because of blackmail, I think?

who says he can't? Pretty sure he could take on and even beat Katakuri, especially since he's more of a strategist. But he probably does need her permission. Didn't the others need Brulee to change the mirrors into doorways?

I don't understand how you believe Sanji would stand a chance against someone who obliterated Luffy (in your eyes). Exhausted or not, if an opponent is seen as significantly stronger than Luffy, why would you suggest him being saved by someone weaker. Unless you are suggesting that Luffy is only losing due to exhaustion and could beat Katakuri once he eats?

Unless Luffy fights BM and Sanji fights Katakuri (justifying Luffy being stronger after eating the cake), it's hard to picture Sanji having the concluding fight while Luffy doesn't defeat anyone in the climax.

It's called matchup. We don't even know how much weaker Sanji is, and if Sanji's Color of Observation and speed are better, he's more likely than Luffy to win. Matchup is why Zoro takes on swordsmen while Luffy takes on the main boss who could beat or kill most enemies who don't have some advantages, like Luffy does.

I maintain luffy will aim to trick katakuris observation haki. He will more or less pretend he is going to do something and then do something different to get a hit or two on katakuri. I still can't imagine him winning here though. Then again, he doesn't have to win, he only has to get away. Heck, he even tried to run away this chapter.

DIdn't he try that against Enel and failed?