One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

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As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

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[M3J]

So, where do you guys place/rank the SuperNova Captains & the two 1stmate Supernovas post timeskip???

Dunno, but I think it's safe to say Luffy would be top 3, if not top 5. Other than that, there's not enough info on the others except for Law to really determine anything, but X-Drake does give off that vibe that he's super powerful.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Dunno, but I think it's safe to say Luffy would be top 3, if not top 5. Other than that, there's not enough info on the others except for Law to really determine anything, but X-Drake does give off that vibe that he's super powerful.

I feel among Supernovas Luffy is number 1. Kidd and Law would place number 2 and 3 or 3 and 2 (this part has already been taken care of by Oda during the Sabaody arc) when he showcased their rivalry while battling Marines.
These 3 Supernovas rank Top 3 as far as power level is concerned.

As for the next 2 to complete a Top 5 list, I'd go for Urouge and probably X-Drake. These 2 have been hyped to possess powerful strength close to the Top 3 but backing it up on-screen is all that is left. Urouge has been able to defeat one lowly commander (Snack), while X-Drake is among the second strongest group of fighters in the Beast Pirates hierarchy, way below a Commander's/Calamity's combat level.
So for me, Urouge and X-Drake squeeze in to top 5 taking ranks 4 and 5 respectively.

All that's left now is ranking these 6 among the rest of the Supernovas. There's Hawkins, Apoo, Bege, Zoro, Killer and Bonny.

 

[McNuss]

Personally, I wouldn't rank kid that highly. So far, he's a jobber. Lost to Big Mom, lost his arm to Shanks, got defeated by Kaido. He might be as reckless as Luffy, but I don't think his current feats put him anywhere close to Luffy. Luffy defeated two Sweet Commanders, Kid 0.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Personally, I wouldn't rank kid that highly. So far, he's a jobber. Lost to Big Mom, lost his arm to Shanks, got defeated by Kaido. He might be as reckless as Luffy, but I don't think his current feats put him anywhere close to Luffy. Luffy defeated two Sweet Commanders, Kid 0.

I know Kidd seems to have a mixed record when it comes to stats. He didn't actually get to Big Mom but went to her territory to return the favor to one of her Sweet Commanders (It's most likely Snack) for beating up one of his subordinate.
He seems to emphasize that he won that duel against a Sweet Commander when explaining his ordeal to Luffy and Caribou in prison.

Why I believe it's Snack that lost is due to his intro in WCI were he cursed the Supernovas - I think the words were those damn Supernovas - when he was told another Supernova (Luffy and his crewmates) was causing the commotion at WCI.
It's a hint that he didn't just lose to Urouge but also Kidd.
So for me Kidd gets a win versus a Sweet Commander.

 

[M3J]

I feel among Supernovas Luffy is number 1. Kidd and Law would place number 2 and 3 or 3 and 2 (this part has already been taken care of by Oda during the Sabaody arc) when he showcased their rivalry while battling Marines.
These 3 Supernovas rank Top 3 as far as power level is concerned.

As for the next 2 to complete a Top 5 list, I'd go for Urouge and probably X-Drake. These 2 have been hyped to possess powerful strength close to the Top 3 but backing it up on-screen is all that is left. Urouge has been able to defeat one lowly commander (Snack), while X-Drake is among the second strongest group of fighters in the Beast Pirates hierarchy, way below a Commander's/Calamity's combat level.
So for me, Urouge and X-Drake squeeze in to top 5 taking ranks 4 and 5 respectively.

All that's left now is ranking these 6 among the rest of the Supernovas. There's Hawkins, Apoo, Bege, Zoro, Killer and Bonny.

I dunno, we haven't seen anything from Drake, but we do know he was a former Marine. I haven't seen anything from Luffy that makes me say "yep, he's definitely the top even though we haven't seen what the others are capable of."

Personally, I wouldn't rank kid that highly. So far, he's a jobber. Lost to Big Mom, lost his arm to Shanks, got defeated by Kaido. He might be as reckless as Luffy, but I don't think his current feats put him anywhere close to Luffy. Luffy defeated two Sweet Commanders, Kid 0.

I mean, Luffy needed help against Cracker, might won because Katakuri let him, couldn't hurt Big Mom, and got one-shot by Kaidou. Using that to measure ranking wouldn't put Luffy in the top 3 or 5. Luffy just happened to have Morgans there and willing to sensationalize, and because he's the main character and thus we follow his story.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Personally, I wouldn't rank kid that highly. So far, he's a jobber. Lost to Big Mom, lost his arm to Shanks, got defeated by Kaido. He might be as reckless as Luffy, but I don't think his current feats put him anywhere close to Luffy. Luffy defeated two Sweet Commanders, Kid 0.

Because he has no feats. It's just implied him and Luffy are around the same strength, which I vehemently disagree with until I see a decent feat equal to Luffy.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 8, 2019, Original Post Date: Mar 8, 2019 ---

I dunno, we haven't seen anything from Drake, but we do know he was a former Marine. I haven't seen anything from Luffy that makes me say "yep, he's definitely the top even though we haven't seen what the others are capable of."


I mean, Luffy needed help against Cracker, might won because Katakuri let him, couldn't hurt Big Mom, and got one-shot by Kaidou. Using that to measure ranking wouldn't put Luffy in the top 3 or 5. Luffy just happened to have Morgans there and willing to sensationalize, and because he's the main character and thus we follow his story.

If both were 100% now, Luffy would straight up defeat Katakuri with all of his growth during their first fight. (Like you said, Katakuri may have let him win, but it was close and Luffy started the fight FAR weaker than him)

You can easily place Luffy above Katakuri currently. You cannot say the same for any of the other SN

 

[afromarco005]

Alright let's put the Sanji debate behind us. Let's agree to disagree, you can rank him as high as you want or as low. Whatever, I stay by my opinion and you by yours. Now Pica vs. Big Father, I will say Big Father/Bege solely on the fact that Bege tanked a couple hits from a furious Big Mom, almost dying but whatever, I don't see Pica's stone form taking that many as a Gear 3rd Luffy punch with CoA, destroyed Pica's face or arm whatever, though Pica seemed to take no damage.
So i'm going to throw it back as few years..back to pre-timeskip. Do you think any of the 11 supernovas besides luffy and zolo, could defeat CP9 (Rob Lucci) or Moria?

Winners

• Ma.D Monk teaches Lucci humility and fear
• Law cuts Lucci in half pre time skip.
• Other than them I can see Bonney win with her hax and maybe XDrake can take him on but ultimately lose imo.

Losers are

• Hawkins turns into a toothpick for lucci
• Killer fights well but gets defeated
• Kidd has solid offense but one clean hit and he is dead.
• Capone if he has no big faether I dont see his attacks to be strong enough to ko Lucci or even bypass his tekkai.
• Apoo is a mistery but I put him in the losers.

 

[M3J]

Because he has no feats. It's just implied him and Luffy are around the same strength, which I vehemently disagree with until I see a decent feat equal to Luffy.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 8, 2019, Original Post Date: Mar 8, 2019 ---

If both were 100% now, Luffy would straight up defeat Katakuri with all of his growth during their first fight. (Like you said, Katakuri may have let him win, but it was close and Luffy started the fight FAR weaker than him)

You can easily place Luffy above Katakuri currently. You cannot say the same for any of the other SN

I highly doubt that, but Luffy would definitely stand a better chance and have a more even fight. But otherwise there's no reason to really place Luffy above Katakuri, it's still questionable, especially when Luffy seems unable to keep on using the advanced CoO.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

I dunno, we haven't seen anything from Drake, but we do know he was a former Marine. I haven't seen anything from Luffy that makes me say "yep, he's definitely the top even though we haven't seen what the others are capable of."


I mean, Luffy needed help against Cracker, might won because Katakuri let him, couldn't hurt Big Mom, and got one-shot by Kaidou. Using that to measure ranking wouldn't put Luffy in the top 3 or 5. Luffy just happened to have Morgans there and willing to sensationalize, and because he's the main character and thus we follow his story.

Help or no help, he won against both commanders.
Katakuri required help to be able to impale Luffy who was approaching Katakuri's future sight even though its infrequent and becoming a huge pain to overcome.

From what we've seen and not seen so far of the Supernovas only Luffy's accomplishments are worthy of note.
Similarly from what we've seen and not seen of YCs, Katakuri stands superior to the rest until others are revealed and shown to be stronger.

The only thing Morgan spiced up were his ability to mastermind the plan and the unintentional destruction of Whole Cake Chateau. He indeed defeated two commanders. More so in the space of 2 days.
No Supernova matches or is at the same level as Luffy (until they get the required bragging rights)

 

[M3J]

Did he really need help though or was Flampe just annoyed that Luffy kept getting back up? Doesn't look like Katakuri really needed help, given he was still in better shape than the wobbling Luffy.

Morgans also spiced up Luffy dealing damage to Big Mom and claimed he was a fifth emperor or in the running for one, even though the crew would be wiped out if any Yonkou took them on. Morgan also didn't see Luffy needing help to beat Cracker and Katakuri apparently fixing the direction of his fall. Plus, for all we know, some other Supernovas may have accomplished something similar long ago. We didn't know about Akainu vs. Aokiji until the end of Fishman Island, or that Blackbeard became an Emperor and took a lot of former Whitebeard territories.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Did he really need help though or was Flampe just annoyed that Luffy kept getting back up? Doesn't look like Katakuri really needed help, given he was still in better shape than the wobbling Luffy.

Morgans also spiced up Luffy dealing damage to Big Mom and claimed he was a fifth emperor or in the running for one, even though the crew would be wiped out if any Yonkou took them on. Morgan also didn't see Luffy needing help to beat Cracker and Katakuri apparently fixing the direction of his fall. Plus, for all we know, some other Supernovas may have accomplished something similar long ago. We didn't know about Akainu vs. Aokiji until the end of Fishman Island, or that Blackbeard became an Emperor and took a lot of former Whitebeard territories.

Assuming other Supernova accomplished feats equal to Luffy is in not way evidence to put them above Luffy when ranking them.

The truth is, there is no other SN with the balls big enough to invade a Yonko's territory and openly antagonize them aside from Luffy. None of the other have the ( and God help me for saying this) plot protection that Luffy has.

Even Kidd manage to only hurt a SC before leaving after getting what he wanted.

The only true accomplishment we have is that Urouge is the only one that defeated a YC.

Kidd, Killer, Hawkins, Apoo had to for an alliance to get anything done

Bege's is playing secret assassin and going by his feats he could not have gotten as far as Luffy

Bonney has been in hiding

Drake has been Kaido's subordinate since the time skip

Law became a shichibukai but his feats against Doflamingo proved where he stood in relation to Luffy

The problem with your Blackbeard example is that we knew BB was going after the Yonko position. None of the other SN's have shown the gains that Luffy and BB have.

And Luffy is doing all this within weeks of entering the NW while the others literally had a 2 year head start.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Did he really need help though or was Flampe just annoyed that Luffy kept getting back up? Doesn't look like Katakuri really needed help, given he was still in better shape than the wobbling Luffy.

Morgans also spiced up Luffy dealing damage to Big Mom and claimed he was a fifth emperor or in the running for one, even though the crew would be wiped out if any Yonkou took them on. Morgan also didn't see Luffy needing help to beat Cracker and Katakuri apparently fixing the direction of his fall. Plus, for all we know, some other Supernovas may have accomplished something similar long ago. We didn't know about Akainu vs. Aokiji until the end of Fishman Island, or that Blackbeard became an Emperor and took a lot of former Whitebeard territories.

Katakuri didn't need any help but that didn't keep Flampe from butting in. Also, it seems you've forgotten some parts of the battle between Luffy and Dogtooth. Luffy wasn't wobbling until Flampe shot a silent blow gun into his legs which happens to be when Katakuri dealt a major blow to Luffy. So there you go, a big aid to giving Katakuri a major hand in the fight.
Katakuri not wanting help didn't stop him from getting it is all I'm saying.

The damage Luffy dealt to Big Mom wasn't physical but psychological and he was spot on with that as her reputation was hugely tainted after what the Strawhats did.
IIRC, Morgan didn't mention a physical damage done to Big Mom unlike the Sweet Commanders.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 8, 2019, Original Post Date: Mar 8, 2019 ---

I highly doubt that, but Luffy would definitely stand a better chance and have a more even fight. But otherwise there's no reason to really place Luffy above Katakuri, it's still questionable, especially when Luffy seems unable to keep on using the advanced CoO.

I don't think Luffy is currently above Katakuri until he displays that. Of course he won but that victory is questionable. I see him being very close/equal but not superior. Oda made that very clear in that duel so it remains to be seen if he truly matured from that battle by facing another powerful Commander and not a Yonko.
But the thing with Luffy is he doesn't choose too much when it comes to opponents. Whoever is most dangerous is usually who he'll go after.

 

[XXGenesis]

Luffy vs Doffy...Luffy took to long to finish Doffy in G4. Doffy has high stamina & endurance for a villain. Luffy Needed minor assistance to run away until his Haki restored to where he ended the fight.

Luffy vs Cracker...Luffy exhausted his Haki in G4 to realize Cracker was a biscuit user, & got cut. Nami's support is big in this battle like it or not. We dont know how long Luffy would take to assume a Mizu-Luffy form or how effective as Climactic Weather rain it would have been. Luffy with high assistance edges over Crackers DF ability, & 1 Hit K.O Cracker with his own Df's durability. Cracker was a well defended glass cannon.

Luffy vs Katakuri....Luffy's greatest ability is winning over the Hearts of others. Once Luffy landed those hits on a flustered Katakuri's secret being revealed, & those G4 attacks. Katakuri regained composer to use CoO but never was the same again; Luffy saw his true colors, never commented on his appearance, hit the perfect brother and challenged his perfectness..Then Katakuri could not, put him out of his misery, Luffy proving he wasn't that inferior or Katakuri that superior. Then Flampe interrupts and shits on his pride. Katakuri does not want to win like that, it doesnt prove his superiority & decides to own his true identity, evening the match injuring himself,revealing his face and he doesn't kill those taking pics off him. Luffy changes him during their fight. Snake man vs mochi block was still inferior(Luffy needs Boundman to surpass mochi block) But Luffy has no more haki use & Katakuri stands back up..He then purposely falls on his back, no longer wanting to continue the fight. Luffy doesn't want to hurt any if his siblings just escape.

So yea no Luffy isnt on Katakuri's lv, after their fight. He's still under. Katakuri injured himself, & could still have won.

Luffy's bounty is inflated honestly by Morgan's manipulation of news. Luffy rightfully dealt a Blow to the BM pirates & has amassed an Armada of strong pirates & warriors. But he himself is not worthy to be a Yonkou yet. He's just touched the commander level to where he can solo the weaker Commanders, no help. He just happens to have an Armada lol

 

[Sachsenhesse]

could still have won.

Well. But he didnt.

 

[McNuss]

Well. But he didnt.

Yeah but one just has to give this fight away to circumstances.

Without the inadvert aid of Brulee, Luffy would have lost anyways.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

This is a piratemanga, not a chivalrymanga. :/ Everything is allowed as long you secure the victory, if Katakuri gives away the win, he deserves the loss.

If Cracker doesnt take out Nami first... he deserves the loss

 

[McNuss]

This is a piratemanga, not a chivalrymanga. :/ Everything is allowed as long you secure the victory, if Katakuri gives away the win, he deserves the loss.

If Cracker doesnt take out Nami first... he deserves the loss

True as well.

But if one wants to discuss someone's powerlevel, one has to discount circumstances. Most of Luffy's victories were circumstantial.

 

[XXGenesis]

Well. But he didnt.

He let him win. Everybody Watch. An excellent explanation. Dogtooth vs Luffy is hands imo best fight of One Piece so far.

Luffy's real Bounty imo should be 700K-900K. SH training for 2yrs wad perfect. The other pirates had to face the NW directly after Shabpody & Captains like Bonney, XDrake & Capone, even Law had to be under someone's rule. While Appo, Urouge, & Kidd Bounced around running from threat to threat...

Urouge with an previous bounty barely over 100k has defeated Snack.. One of BM top 5 combatants.

Kidd went from 315K to 470K in 2yrs..He's suffered losing an arm goung against the Red Hair Yonkou Group, & has been a nuisance to BM probably even beating on Snack also..Then he tries to ally with Appo & Hawkins to fight Kaidou which is immediately destroyed by Kaidou himself.

Appo went from Mid 198k to 350K & all we know is that he's a rival to Kidd since Pre TS, but has turned over to Kaidou.

Hawkins also raised his bounty 249k-320k & is under Kiadou rule, as one of his Headliners.

Seeing BM Set up for her crew; Then seeing Kaidou's beast Pirates....I believe the SuperNovas are in their right spots, but carry the potential to disrupt these main powers of the World..Luffy is the most ready to compete on an equal like footing with Any Commander, Law & Kidd needing just a little more experience to do the same.

 

[M3J]

Assuming other Supernova accomplished feats equal to Luffy is in not way evidence to put them above Luffy when ranking them.

I don't think I've ever said that? Point was that Luffy didn't do as well as claimed, at least when his fights were compared to Kidd. Both had losses against Yonkou and shit, and Luffy won his fights thanks to one reason or another.

The truth is, there is no other SN with the balls big enough to invade a Yonko's territory and openly antagonize them aside from Luffy. None of the other have the ( and God help me for saying this) plot protection that Luffy has.

Even Kidd manage to only hurt a SC before leaving after getting what he wanted.

The only true accomplishment we have is that Urouge is the only one that defeated a YC.

Kidd, Killer, Hawkins, Apoo had to for an alliance to get anything done

Bege's is playing secret assassin and going by his feats he could not have gotten as far as Luffy

Bonney has been in hiding

Drake has been Kaido's subordinate since the time skip

Law became a shichibukai but his feats against Doflamingo proved where he stood in relation to Luffy

The problem with your Blackbeard example is that we knew BB was going after the Yonko position. None of the other SN's have shown the gains that Luffy and BB have.

And Luffy is doing all this within weeks of entering the NW while the others literally had a 2 year head start.

Yeah but again, we don't know what most of the others did during their two years head start. We have an idea with Bege, Drake, and Law, but not much for others. They could have accomplished something major, but it got glossed over because what Luffy did is more recent.

Katakuri didn't need any help but that didn't keep Flampe from butting in. Also, it seems you've forgotten some parts of the battle between Luffy and Dogtooth. Luffy wasn't wobbling until Flampe shot a silent blow gun into his legs which happens to be when Katakuri dealt a major blow to Luffy. So there you go, a big aid to giving Katakuri a major hand in the fight.
Katakuri not wanting help didn't stop him from getting it is all I'm saying.

The damage Luffy dealt to Big Mom wasn't physical but psychological and he was spot on with that as her reputation was hugely tainted after what the Strawhats did.
IIRC, Morgan didn't mention a physical damage done to Big Mom unlike the Sweet Commanders.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 8, 2019, Original Post Date: Mar 8, 2019 ---

I don't think Luffy is currently above Katakuri until he displays that. Of course he won but that victory is questionable. I see him being very close/equal but not superior. Oda made that very clear in that duel so it remains to be seen if he truly matured from that battle by facing another powerful Commander and not a Yonko.
But the thing with Luffy is he doesn't choose too much when it comes to opponents. Whoever is most dangerous is usually who he'll go after.

Oh true. But before that, Luffy was still mostly on the defensive.


That is true, but Luffy was lucky Morgan didn't report that Luffy was useless against Big Mom. Luffy's hype wouldn't have shot up as much as it did.

Luffy's bounty is inflated honestly by Morgan's manipulation of news. Luffy rightfully dealt a Blow to the BM pirates & has amassed an Armada of strong pirates & warriors. But he himself is not worthy to be a Yonkou yet. He's just touched the commander level to where he can solo the weaker Commanders, no help. He just happens to have an Armada lol

Agreed 100%

Luffy's real Bounty imo should be 700K-900K. SH training for 2yrs wad perfect. The other pirates had to face the NW directly after Shabpody & Captains like Bonney, XDrake & Capone, even Law had to be under someone's rule. While Appo, Urouge, & Kidd Bounced around running from threat to threat...

Disagreed 100%. I think his bounty should be at least 1 million, He isn't that strong, but he is still dangerous. As others have mentioned, Luffy actually infiltrated Big Mom's territory, caused damage, ruined her plans, and made it out alive, after doing the same to Doflamingo. He's a major threat and is on his way to becoming one of the top 3 threats at some point.

 

[XXGenesis]

Disagreed 100%. I think his bounty should be at least 1 million, He isn't that strong, but he is still dangerous. As others have mentioned, Luffy actually infiltrated Big Mom's territory, caused damage, ruined her plans, and made it out alive, after doing the same to Doflamingo. He's a major threat and is on his way to becoming one of the top 3 threats at some point.

Luffy is our protagonist so he has to make it out of situations. But WCI was very plot armorish...Jimbei rescues him jail; Bege is planning an assassination to join in on. Lucky explosion saves the failed assassination attempt. Fishman Pirates dont leave so they disabke BM intelligence network. & Germa66 definitely plays a big part in fighting of BMP.

I disagree with the 1B simply because Jack,Katakuri, Queen & likely King, Have such bounties. Luffy is only now in Wano, actually on that plateau.

I'll say his Pirate fleet is the biggest boost. Which i just love. Luffy is going to need them to actually fight these huge Yonkou crews & the next War.