One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[King Moe]

Moe kun Sanji himself admits he tried gis hardest

Thus counter by Luffy saying it was BS. Which it was. He also said stuff to get Luffy to leave and he wasn't having it. Why you keep missing context on the scene. You guys are desperate to get fault on Sanji when isn't there. Gotta move on from that.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Moe kun Sanji himself admits he tried gis hardest

If Zoro or Jimbei or Katakuri tried to hurt Luffy to the best of their abilities against a Luffy that won't defend himself... the last thing I'd be worried about is Luffy losing a tooth, but potentially losing his life or being taken out of commission for a few days.

 

[King Moe]

Is that a Ben Shapiro reference ? It's true, Oda has turned Sanji into a joke and he needs to show a lot of improvement.

The only joke I see, is Sanji doing work and Zoro fainting from one blow and people think he is stronger than Luffy?

Thought you were reasonable than this Hannibal, but guess you can't admit when your wrong too. So much for 'mature' judgement.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 3, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 3, 2019 ---

If Zoro or Jimbei or Katakuri tried to hurt Luffy to the best of their abilities against a Luffy that won't defend himself... the last thing I'd be worried about is Luffy losing a tooth, but potentially losing his life or being taken out of commission for a few days.

Didn't Luffy kept fighting against Jimbei and Katakuri on their best? You trolling Hannibal. I think all the Zoro dehype leave you bbiased and former shell on how you used to be. Zoro couldn't even put a dent to him pre-timeskip when they fought. What make you think he can now especially after this chapter XD?!

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I have literally debated someone who said Sanji would have a better chance against Katakuri than Zoro would against Doflamingo.

Sanji fare better against Katakuri, but can't even beat Judge in the air where he claimed was his forte?

This is my issue with Sanji fans and any fanatical fanboy/girl, it's this dishonesty. Nothing wrong with fanboying as long as one remains realistic and truthful about the abilities of their favourite character.

Tashigi could be my favourite character, but I shouldn't then be so dishonest to claim that she can probably do better than Luffy did against Joker or Cracker.

 

[King Moe]

Sanji fare better against Katakuri, but can't even beat Judge in the air where he claimed was his forte?

This is my issue with Sanji fans and any fanatical fanboy/girl, it's this dishonesty. Nothing wrong with fanboying as long as one remains realistic and truthful about the abilities of their favourite character.

Tashigi could be my favourite character, but I shouldn't then be so dishonest to claim that she can probably do better than Luffy did against Joker or Cracker.

Aren't you the same person Zoro could potentially be stronger than Luffy and take on Katakuri? Look what happened this chapter. Your no better man and your logic is not truth for the forum. I ask around, your not that regarded as a source of getting it in especially your clearly denying Sanji beating PO easily and yet someone say he is 'weakling' in your mind. Also you do realize he let Judge win after clones came in the fight and Judge pierce into them. Even after the fight he wasn't even hurt and it's heavily implied he gave up as he couldn't stomach on how he father fights with that tactic..

It's not fanboyism, it's factualism as we not pushing him to the moon like Zoro fans naturally do like yourself over the matter and only get karma when he doesn't do what they thought. Sanji has a fine line he going to while Zoro and his fanbase need to be brought back on reality of the situation and which Oda is doing on making Zoro look credible and believable instead of always breezing through his opponents just for the sake saying "Oh! He haven't used Asura or open his eye yet! He is clearly holding back". Don't think those options are believable anymore after last chapter.

 

[nik87]

Though your acting more because Zoro's performance lately. Why else your doing this ?
Didn't say he didn't get increase because of his family, I said not only reason. You got read posts more man. Morgan saw him fighting and his capabilities as well Stussy, so I do why your ignoring he wasn't there.
Thought you said bounty doesn't mean nothing, now your complaining him surpassing him barely? Lol your counter your own words more and more. I feel bad for Glass-Man (Zoro) and his fans can't admit when they are wrong when Glass-Man can.

If you didnt notice I have been criticizing the cook with Okama blood since ages, faint-master Zoro is irrelevant, just your effort to derail from Wanji being a joke character.
It's you who should read posts better, not me. Morgans and Stussy have nothing to do with his increase to 177m but his daddy does.
I have always been saying that Bounty is a fairly good representative of characters combat abilities, with many exceptions aka unestablished characters.
Glass-Man still took out more opponents in this arc than Wankji.

@Hannibal Psyche Wasnt my intention to channel Ben but I bet it looked like it.

 

[King Moe]

If you didnt notice I have been criticizing the cook with Okama blood since ages, faint-master Zoro is irrelevant, just your effort to derail from Wanji being a joke character.
It's you who should read posts better, not me. Morgans and Stussy have nothing to do with his increase to 177m but his daddy does.
I have always been saying that Bounty is a fairly good representative of characters combat abilities, with many exceptions aka unestablished characters.
Glass-Man still took out more opponents in this arc than Wankji.

@Hannibal Psyche Wasnt my intention to channel Ben but I bet it looked like it.

You mean gags that all characters have in their personalities like Zoro getting his ass lost again XD? Not denying that, but acting like Sanji is only one with gag is denial again about it.

Yes they did as it been stated heavily they influence especially showing Luffy 'defeated' Big Mom and thus give reason for his high bounty and also what they saw Luffy and Sanji in action and fighting, so it contributed to their bounties as well. Yet you complained saying that they mean nothing when facing someone at same time, so you can't counter it when you see it as how strong they are. You got to pick one side instead of saying both.

Fodders don't count. Talking about serious opponent which Glass-Man have yet to done that yet. When he takes on someone formidable that he defeated, we can talk. Sanji still done more taking out more on enemy side than him especially beating a high-tier opponent .

 

[afromarco005]

@King Moe Yes Sanji is stronkest!!! Of course he was holding back. What we have seen thus far in the new world was a mere 1,354% of his true power.

Here Oda drew Sanji at 23,7%of his power where he can take on Queen and king at the same time low diff! Too OP OMG Zoro is noob!!!

Spoiler

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Yonji was off-screen, but damage was shown after he was hit hard that he needed medically to get those 'earmuffs' thing from his skull as he hit him so hard and Niji got kick in the face so hard he has to put his neck back in place after was sent flying and bleeding. You keep stating he is 'weak' but so far Sanji is stronger than he is and most of his fights were interrupted or he has to hold back.

Is that your excuse for not backing it up?
You said Sanji bested Raid Suited Niji and Yonji. I'm asking you show me some proof!
Where are the panels?

BACK IT UP!

 

[King Moe]

Is that your excuse for not backing it up?
You said Sanji bested Raid Suited Niji and Yonji. I'm asking you show me some proof!
Where are the panels?

BACK IT UP!

Are you ok? You your acting out after I just said it was off-screen. Did you not read what happened between Sanji and Yonji. Reread the arc as your acting more emotional right now man. When I said RS Niji. I said Niji as he overpower him as he kick him. Go look it up. It happened before Niji blackmail Sanji not to fight. It shown both manga and anime over it.

PAY ATTENTION! DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE WORDS I LAY OUT (EMPHASIZING)?

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Are you ok? You your acting out after I just said it was off-screen. Did you not read what happened between Sanji and Yonji. Reread the arc as your acting more emotional right now man. When I said RS Niji. I said Niji as he overpower him as he kick him. Go look it up. It happened before Niji blackmail Sanji not to fight. It shown both manga and anime over it.

PAY ATTENTION! DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE WORDS I LAY OUT (EMPHASIZING)?

How can I understand your words when you don't lay them out well. You speaking like...(ah... Never mind).

Here's why I called you up to back your statement:
You said "Heck he even bested RS Yonji and Niji despite they are able to damage high-tier enemies" implying that Sanji defeated them while they were armed with their RS which never happened hence my response;
"Show me a panel where he bested them in their Raid Suit."
Then you ignored that and started talking about an off-screened fight.
WTH?

Everyone knows Sanji should be able to defeat his siblings with their RS off. They are weaklings after all (all them Vinsmokes).

Without RS they're nothing with only a hard exoskeleton to show off. Just look at them at the tea party. They admitted they could do nothing without the suit.
Hence my conclusion that if RS gave these weaklings so much boost combat wise that they can go from 0 to hero. Then it is clear why Sanji also got one even after claiming he wanted nothing to do with them and their tech (not the first time bright boy disappointed us).
But if it'll cover the lack of power Oda has shown us he's lacking post TS (HP, Nik and others are correct for pointing that out), I'm in.
Seriously Moe, it's not about bringing Sanji down or anything low key like that, it's just how the writer has portrayed him in the latter half of the Series (knowing you, you might not see it that way though). But don't worry, he'll start to shine soon. Very soon I believe.
Hail the RS! Hail our boy Sanji!

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Is that your excuse for not backing it up?
You said Sanji bested Raid Suited Niji and Yonji. I'm asking you show me some proof!
Where are the panels?

BACK IT UP!

This would look like I'm downplaying Sanji, but in earnest, I'm not. I think the reason why Yonji got injured by Sanji is because he assumed that Sanji was still weak. Ever since they knew Sanji, he was born weak and was weak. Yonji probably thought he could defeat Sanji without fighting seriously.

As you imply, he never bested Niji. It was a surprise attack. They all thought Sanji wouldn't attack any of them since Judge threatened him with Zeff's life. The moment he attacked Niji again or attempted to do so, all they had to do was remind him of Zeff.

Sanji is a severely overrated character. The thing is I understand the expectations people have of Sanji, I genuinely think Oda should have had him as strong as Zoro was because they've always been portrayed as relatively equal in strength pre-skip, so it's quite disappointing how Oda has deviated from what he built up pre-skip.

Overzealous Sanji fans just won't accept he's become weak and has been given a Raid Suit from the family who berated him and ridiculed him to make up for his weakness. While it's a power-up, it feels like it only confirms what his family thought of him since he needs their technology to be formidable. It's like parents telling their child he/she cannot become anything in life without them, and then he/she tries to become successful, fails and then ultimately has to work in their parent's business to be viewed as successful. It's like a slap in the face the way Oda has written Sanji's character. I feel it'd have been better if Sanji acquired the suit from Franky rather than from the family who his father still ridiculed him to the very end calling him a failure despite the fact he saved his life, and to add insult to injury, asked Luffy why he'd even bother saving him after everything.

 

[Pirate Queen]

This would look like I'm downplaying Sanji, but in earnest, I'm not. I think the reason why Yonji got injured by Sanji is because he assumed that Sanji was still weak. Ever since they knew Sanji, he was born weak and was weak. Yonji probably thought he could defeat Sanji without fighting seriously.

As you imply, he never bested Niji. It was a surprise attack. They all thought Sanji wouldn't attack any of them since Judge threatened him with Zeff's life. The moment he attacked Niji again or attempted to do so, all they had to do was remind him of Zeff.

Sanji is a severely overrated character. The thing is I understand the expectations people have of Sanji, I genuinely think Oda should have had him as strong as Zoro was because they've always been portrayed as relatively equal in strength pre-skip, so it's quite disappointing how Oda has deviated from what he built up pre-skip.

Overzealous Sanji fans just won't accept he's become weak and has been given a Raid Suit from the family who berated him and ridiculed him to make up for his weakness. While it's a power-up, it feels like it only confirms what his family thought of him since he needs their technology to be formidable. It's like parents telling their child he/she cannot become anything in life without them, and then he/she tries to become successful, fails and then ultimately has to work in their parent's business to be viewed as successful. It's like a slap in the face the way Oda has written Sanji's character. I feel it'd have been better if Sanji acquired the suit from Franky rather than from the family who his father still ridiculed him to the very end calling him a failure despite the fact he saved his life, and to add insult to injury, asked Luffy why he'd even bother saving him after everything.

Wow, this is actually kind of harsh lol

 

[King Moe]

This would look like I'm downplaying Sanji, but in earnest, I'm not. I think the reason why Yonji got injured by Sanji is because he assumed that Sanji was still weak. Ever since they knew Sanji, he was born weak and was weak. Yonji probably thought he could defeat Sanji without fighting seriously.

As you imply, he never bested Niji. It was a surprise attack. They all thought Sanji wouldn't attack any of them since Judge threatened him with Zeff's life. The moment he attacked Niji again or attempted to do so, all they had to do was remind him of Zeff.

Sanji is a severely overrated character. The thing is I understand the expectations people have of Sanji, I genuinely think Oda should have had him as strong as Zoro was because they've always been portrayed as relatively equal in strength pre-skip, so it's quite disappointing how Oda has deviated from what he built up pre-skip.

Overzealous Sanji fans just won't accept he's become weak and has been given a Raid Suit from the family who berated him and ridiculed him to make up for his weakness. While it's a power-up, it feels like it only confirms what his family thought of him since he needs their technology to be formidable. It's like parents telling their child he/she cannot become anything in life without them, and then he/she tries to become successful, fails and then ultimately has to work in their parent's business to be viewed as successful. It's like a slap in the face the way Oda has written Sanji's character. I feel it'd have been better if Sanji acquired the suit from Franky rather than from the family who his father still ridiculed him to the very end calling him a failure despite the fact he saved his life, and to add insult to injury, asked Luffy why he'd even bother saving him after everything.

Hannibal you just gave yourself away and prove you have a hate boner for Sanji. Calling him overrated proves that especially when Zoro been treated this chapter. Your points make zero logic and to even question Luffy's value on Sanji more is the most dumbest thing I heard as you act like their bond is fragile when hardly not.

Sanji has been performing well especially since WCI, his character has evolve and he is strong with or without RS as shown. Why are you talking condescending like you know what fanbase are feeling cause I can tell you right now your opinion isn't them, but your personal feelings. Got to understand between opinion and fact more. You really lost touch on how to maintain fair argument on your side.

Not Sanji fans are the issue, it's fans like you who can't admit when things aren't how they like it. If Sanji was made to be 'weak' he would be more like Usopp, he wasn't and is still equal to Zoro to this day.

Having a RS doesn't take away his power as unlike a certain 'green-haired' weapon user, Sanji can fight without it. He didn't surprised Yonji or Niji at all. They expected it especially Niji as Yonji probably told him how he lost to him which is why Niji uses blackmail to prevent him fighting back. If your sure of your skill, why play dirty like that?

So many points are pointing Sanji getting stronger as time goes on and much to show. Not getting weaker in the process of it. Got get with program and stop this nonsense of Oda has a 'agenda' against him or something due to things not your way it thought.

Does Oda hate Zoro now after destroying his 'durability' thing? Hardly. Just character development he going through and need to train himself more is all. We got to accept and that things aren't how we think at times, but that doesn't mean other stuff won't happen or writing getting bad cause it's not at all.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 3, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 3, 2019 ---

Wow, this is actually kind of harsh lol

Hannibal shows his true colors as a 'side' fan. There goes his credibility on going for him on 'facts' now. Why is it hard we can't agree to disagree like we used to and respect opinions (So as long facts and logic are accurate).

 

[albertwv]

Guys just stop arguing with KingMoe. When it comes to Sanji, he can't think clearly and only uses emotions rather facts or references or citations or pages, just like any other sane person would. He infers and keeps imagining things in his head that has not been shown in the manga but he KNOWS for sure it has happened because he himself knows how Oda works. He berates others on how much they hate Sanji, yet he is doing the same for ZoLo and his own fanboy-ism clouds his judgement. Moe take a deep breathe and start using references on the actual manga, NOT what you believe. We have proven you wrong on so many levels, yet you won't listen to reason. It is sad to be honest. Even more depressing when you actually said that Sanji with RS can defeat both Doffy and Jimbei as of right now. Even more when you think he will match up against King or Queen, top YC level. I might take you seriously if you had said Sanji vs. Jack, maybe, but let's see. You believe Sanji vs. King because Sanji "easily" defeated P1, okay how about this.

Sanji clearly says he felt a little pain with the suit on, so by this I can clearly infer that Sanji could have not as easily defeated P1 as you say he did.

Next, did you ever think, hey maybe P1 was the weakest among the 6 FF, and that there might be a stronger 6 FF leader, who might actually fight Sanji, and not just straight jump up to YC level (Jack), much less high YC level (King). I've told you so many times, that nobody but you thinks that Sanji will fight King, no where and I mean no where does it show that Sanji will match up against King in the future. Do i think ZoLo will fight King or a YC, yeah maybe Jack, but not King. I don't think ZoLo is at the level or will be at the level of High YC. And him fighting Orochi, I doubt it as well, Orochi seems weak and maybe Kinemon might fight him.
Also, I seriously doubt Luffy will be strong enough to fight Kaido in this arc. Maybe Luffy, Kid, Law, and some others might match up agaisnt Kaido, but 1v1 is highly impossible. Luffy got one-shotted in G4 from Kaido and you think by the end of this arc he will fight him in a 1v1, please use some sense.

 

[nik87]

Guys and gals, put your hate boners away from Sanji.

 

[M3J]

Then we saw him take on Joker, got 1 shot

Very false, Sanji wasn't one-shot. Sanji had to be bound up for Doflamingo to even try to kill him, and Sanji interfered enough that Doflamingo moved from attacking the ship to Sanji. Be accurate. No one answered my question as to the other Doflamingo executive that beat Sanji or whatever they said, to boot.

And while you point out Sanji breaking his leg bone against Vergo, you also forgot to mention he ran and moved as if he never got injured afterwards.


Oh I forgot, but how did Sanji beat Page One, Moe?

 

[King Moe]

Do you see Page One around? He beat him off-screen either from that diving attack or off-screen one. Page would have cause trouble by now and Sanji would tell them if he didn't went down at all. So far none of these are happening, so Page is down as he would have done something by now.

 

[albertwv]

By Moe's logic, Shanks defeated (easily) Kaido, during the Impel Down Arc when Kaido attempted to attack WB from saving Ace. Who shows up in MF one day later? Shanks. Therefore, Shanks (off screen) defeated Kaido, because Kaido was not shown in MF.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Wow, this is actually kind of harsh lol

It is in my opinion. It's why I dislike the Raid Suit.

Very false, Sanji wasn't one-shot. Sanji had to be bound up for Doflamingo to even try to kill him, and Sanji interfered enough that Doflamingo moved from attacking the ship to Sanji. Be accurate. No one answered my question as to the other Doflamingo executive that beat Sanji or whatever they said, to boot.

Nope, he was practically one shot by Joker. Yes, it's his ability. He easily bound Sanji. The fight didn't even last a minute, and Sanji would have died had Law not saved him.

Joker let him attack, bound him, and was about to land the killing blow. That was easily Joker's easiest fight in the entire Dressrosa arc. He treated Sanji like fodder.

And while you point out Sanji breaking his leg bone against Vergo, you also forgot to mention he ran and moved as if he never got injured afterwards.

Nope, you're wrong. I did say he got injured in the explosion in my previous posts if you actually took the time to read instead of make baseless assumptions.

In fact, Usopp, got caught in the same explosion as Sanji, he ran and fought too like nothing happened afterwards. What's your point? Usopp is as durable as Sanji?

If you actually took the time to read what I was saying instead of getting defensive simply because Sanji is your favourite character, my point is Oda has treated Sanji badly.

1. Did you even read where I said why did Oda even have to draw Sanji breaking his bone against Vergo?
2. Did you read where I asked if that was even necessary?
3. Did you read where I said why does Oda have to humiliate Sanji with events that do nothing to the plot ultimately other than make Sanji look bad?

Oh I forgot, but how did Sanji beat Page One

He defeated an opponent that couldn't see him. Anyone can hit an opponent that can't see them.

• Why couldn't he be seen? because of the Raid Suit that he was given from a group of people that think he's weak and useless.

Sanji didn't beat Page One because he was faster than Page One or stronger. That wasn't even a fight. It was target practice. If it were a fight, there'd have been an exchange between Sanji and Page One, there wasn't. If Sanji only defeats opponents because they can't see him, then it doesn't prove he's a stronger, better, faster or more durable fighter.

It only makes us question how Sanji would fare if he actually fought the way he did pre-skip and prior to Page One. We couldn't even say that Sanji would have defeated Page One without the Raid Suit. The Raid Suit in essence undermines his strength.