One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[afromarco005]

I really thought the RS would be a last resort thing for Sanji given his relationship with everything Germa.
I was very surprised to see Cook use it against the first ennemy he encountered, I would have prefered for it to be a parrallel of Zoro putting his pride to the side to ask Mihawk to train him this would make sanji look much cooler and it would be tremendous character devellopement after the whole WCI situation.

Now about the final matchup, I don't say that Sanji won't be facing a stronger opponent than P1 (still hoping for a no RS rematch BTW), but its way too soon for him to fight a yonko commander 1v1.

The way I see it Sanji would have to team up with other characters like Bepo, carrot and one of the 9 scabbards to take on a YC1 and even then they will need to be very smart about the battle, come up with a strategy etc just like SHpirates vs Oars Jr, that would be refreshing to see as thes type of fights dont occur often in OP.

I don't get why people want Sanji to fight King, its the same as him facing Marco (on his way Btw), Katakuri or Ben beckman, voyeur cook is simply not ready.

And I believe it is much more exciting for Oda to keep the strawhats as underdogs struggling all the way but ultimately winning in the end. If Sanji was godlike as claimed by the Moe crew, it would just make for a boring character imo.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Whether or not he used it unintentionally is not really relevant. The point is invisibility is why he won or the reason why he got in those major attacks. It's the only reason Page One couldn't even defend himself.

Sanji didn't beat Page One because he was faster than Page One or stronger. That wasn't even a fight. It was target practice. If it were a fight, there'd have been an exchange between Sanji and Page One, there wasn't. If Sanji only defeats opponents because they can't see him, then it doesn't prove he's a stronger, better, faster or more durable fighter.

My point is Sanji could have or could have have not relied on invisibility and given the fact that back in the day he himself said that only a coward would use such an ability in a fight I'm more inclined to believe that he sticks to his words and avoids using it. Sanji could have remained invisible if he really wanted to but chose to stay visible right after he figured out that he has the ability.

I'm also not calling Sanji a coward. I'm simply saying the benefits of invisibility is a strong one. While Sanji was clearly stronger than Absalom, fact is it made hitting Sanji extremely easy. Even Luffy, Zoro and co. couldn't do much about Absalom when he appeared on their ship.

Dam it, can't find my own post where I quoted Sanji from TB arc. Point is he said it himself — invisibility isn't something Sanji would deem a noble way of fighting. If he ends up using it on a regular basis then he would automatically become a coward according to his own logic.

It's also not a mere assumption, there's a difference between simply assuming and an evidence based assumption. It's implied. Based on the fact that we don't see Page One after that fight and the fact they successfully escaped, it heavily implies that Sanji finished him.

I'm not even arguing against that (highlighted text). But it is an assumption to say that Sanji won only due to invisibility which is not necessarily the case.

 

[nik87]

voyeur cook is simply not ready.

LuL, nice one.

Kaido of Hundred Beasts.
Sanji of Thousand Nicknames.

 

[King Moe]

Perhaps you don't read your own comments well before you post them never mind others'.

Props to you for admitting your mistake but then you come at me with a ridiculous claim.

If Luffy doesn't fight Kaido who will?
I've always maintained my stance that Luffy will battle Kaido and hopefully defeat him but not alone so I don't get where you are coming from really. You want to hold me on something I didn't say?
Are you a corrupt cop or something? (*Joking)

I do, but you don't seem to be as you clearly ignore what I put out again -.-...

Think your misunderstanding or just missing my post entirely when you said that or you don't think Luffy will won't do it like a Doflamingo's situation.

I said Luffy will fight him, but at first it be team up before later on it becomes one on one between him and Kaido. It's similar to Doflamingo situation. I doubt Luffy will go in teams from start to end as Kaido probably will take Kidd and Law out and Luffy become last one standing to defeat him in the end.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

My point is Sanji could have or could have have not relied on invisibility and given the fact that back in the day he himself said that only a coward would use such an ability in a fight I'm more inclined to believe that he sticks to his words and avoids using it. Sanji could have remained invisible if he really wanted to but chose to stay visible right after he figured out that he has the ability.

That isn't really relevant, we're not discussing whether Sanji chose to be visible or not, that's not really important.

The point is he was invisible whether he chose to be or not, and that's why he was able to hit Page One, that's the objective fact.

Dam it, can't find my own post where I quoted Sanji from TB arc. Point is he said it himself — invisibility isn't something Sanji would deem a noble way of fighting. If he ends up using it on a regular basis then he would automatically become a coward according to his own logic.

Again, I'm not debating Sanji's fighting scruples.

Have I said Sanji chose to fight with invisibility? No, I didn't, I'm not arguing that.

My point is regardless of his way of choosing to fight, my point is the suit made him invisible. And that's why he was able to hit Page One so easily.

My point is he got hit by Page One and was unscathed because of the Raid Suit.

Entire reason Page One got hit by Sanji here is because he thought Sanji would be injured. Realistically, he probably would be without the Raid Suit.

He got smacked into how many rows of buildings?1,2, maybe 3? Realistically, he'd be injured or bruised.

Page One got hit by Sanji again because of why? because Sanji wasn't where he expected him to be. Not because Sanji was moving so fast that he couldn't detect his movement.

You're arguing Sanji's nobility, never questioned his nobility as a fighter.

I'm arguing the fact that the Raid Suit takes away from how much we can accredit Sanji's victory to his actual fighting prowess. This is more or pointing to what I said about Oda, he's portraying Sanji as weak and in ambiguous ways that don't let us really see his strength shine or progression of this strength.

But it is an assumption to say that Sanji won only due to invisibility which is not necessarily the case.

An evidence based assumption is different from just assuming, that much is a fact.

Fact at the end of the day is every major hit Sanji landed that hurt Page One is because of the Raid Suit, that's an undeniable fact.

End of the day, if we wanted to make Sanji look strong, it doesn't take any great effort of the mind to to implement it:

• Have Sanji get hit by powerful characters without any armour and tank it pretty effectively.
• Have Sanji speed-blitz a power character.
• Have Sanji get praised by a powerful character.
• Have Sanji defeat a powerful character showcasing his physical prowess.

If we swapped Sanji and Zoro's representation around since the time-skip, we should be talking about how weak Oda has presented Zoro, not Sanji.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 4, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 4, 2019 ---

The ironic thing is that if Oda had simply drawn this scene and not drawn anymore of the Sanji fight, Sanji may have been redeemed after Punk Hazard. Joker complimented his strength and Sanji didn't look bad.

Instead, what does Oda do?

He has to add this absolutely necessary scene to make Sanji look good?

• Did he really have to draw Sanji bound and about to get killed so that he'd be saved by Law?
• He does this to Sanji which makes Joker's compliment seem like a joke. On top of that, Joker isn't even defending with Hardened Armament, but the weaker form of Armament.
• What was the purpose of having Sanji need to be saved? To showcase Law's room which we've already seen teleport people before? It did nothing to that scene, it wasn't necessary, yet Oda went out of his way to do draw Sanji like this.

I'm not belittling Sanji, I'm saying Oda has treated Sanji so poorly to the point he's a shadow of his former self and he's not yet done anything to change this perception.

In fact, Sanji didn't get any major fights in Dressrosa because he didn't feature for most of the arc. Why couldn't Oda have simply had Sanji defeat Vergo since Zoro was going to defeat Pica as Sanji would have been going to Zou? That would at least have made Sanji look good taking out one of Joker's right hand men, but no, Oda doesn't do that.

Most of you proclaim to be fans of Sanji, yet you criticise people for pointing out Sanji's poor portrayal. If anything, you guys should be venting out on Oda on his treatment of Sanji, not for people for pointing out the truth.

 

[King Moe]

I really thought the RS would be a last resort thing for Sanji given his relationship with everything Germa.
I was very surprised to see Cook use it against the first ennemy he encountered, I would have prefered for it to be a parrallel of Zoro putting his pride to the side to ask Mihawk to train him this would make sanji look much cooler and it would be tremendous character devellopement after the whole WCI situation.

Now about the final matchup, I don't say that Sanji won't be facing a stronger opponent than P1 (still hoping for a no RS rematch BTW), but its way too soon for him to fight a yonko commander 1v1.

The way I see it Sanji would have to team up with other characters like Bepo, carrot and one of the 9 scabbards to take on a YC1 and even then they will need to be very smart about the battle, come up with a strategy etc just like SHpirates vs Oars Jr, that would be refreshing to see as thes type of fights dont occur often in OP.

I don't get why people want Sanji to fight King, its the same as him facing Marco (on his way Btw), Katakuri or Ben beckman, voyeur cook is simply not ready.

And I believe it is much more exciting for Oda to keep the strawhats as underdogs struggling all the way but ultimately winning in the end. If Sanji was godlike as claimed by the Moe crew, it would just make for a boring character imo.

Well he need to get acquainted how to use the RS as if he never use it once, then it be kinda BS how he is master of it while just one-time use especially going after an YC later on. Beside he stated already it's more so for disguise and he using it for spying, not for lack of power which is why he asking Usopp and Franky to remove features from it so he doesn't get affiliated with them and Germa. He stated that he still hates them, nothing changes out of that. Idk where you guys think Sanji forgot about it and loves them now when he doesn't. It is shame with Zoro as he quickly asked for Mihawk's the moment he find out about the newspaper what Luffy did and Ace's death. I don't see a different as both are putting aside prides to those they consider enemies and dislike them.

I know the fanbase hated seeing Zoro begging Mihawk and him mocking Zoro for doing that, but it was for character development on him putting pride aside for the greater good, it doesn't hurt character what they think as the same with Sanji. It's truly the same case all together here.

Got be an YC especially how Oda is hyping King and Queen with similar personalities in rivalry like Sanji and Zoro (Though after latest chapter, Zoro I don't see likely to touch an YC without retraining and such, but it seems like he pushing him to Orochi as final opponent since he is now with Hiyori and took out his henchman in the end) and plus if he easily defeated a T6H, he needs something more challenging for him to face off with. Idk if he needs team-up especially need those type of people by his side as YC aren't as bad as Kaido who need major team-up for Luffy when he faces him. Though point end of the day Luffy will soon reach Yonko lvl and his fellow Monster Trio being Sanji and Zoro have to be close by to him to reach him and thus be YC lvl which looks to be happening pretty soon.

When I said he face them no struggle? Of course he struggle, but defeat them in the end. Your speaking more nonsense each time we talk, but hey doing your best to detract away on what Zoro happened to him last chapter on whatever it takes. Like Rayleigh said, you evolve more as tougher the fight and thus your Haki increases along with it. Him facing a YC be perfect to develop more on his body too, so Idk why you guys are against it especially how Oda is shaping the arc to confront them head-on to defeat them. Nothing to go around it or anything.

 

[nik87]

@King Moe Looking at your responses it looks like you are the only one using logic and reason and rest of us have no idea what we speak of.
Can I have the same drugs that you are taking?

 

[King Moe]

I don't think it's unfair, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that Oda's having Sanji rely on something from Germa. I mean what stops Oda from having Sanji simply defeat Page One because he's faster than him?

It would look better if Sanji easily evaded Page One's attacks or if Page One tried to hit Sanji, and Sanji effortless evaded, speed blitzed him and then knocked him out cold with Hardened Armament.

That would be exciting to see.

Sanji's weakness has never been the lack of a weapon because he's strong. Now he needs a weapon even though all Oda needs do is make him stronger? Some may like it, others may not as you said. I just think Oda could treat Sanji better. If Sanji is supposed to be one of Luffy's main forces, then we should expect Sanji to be exponentially stronger and capable of defeating high ranked commanders.

Would it be ridiculous to claim Garp could very likely defeat Cracker purely with his fist and Haki? I don't think so, would be nice to see Sanji defeat opponents on his own merit simply with his kicking and Haki.

The Raid Suit is a cheap power-up too because Sanji is supposed to be one of the strongest characters simply with his currently style. Zoro's Swords are not power-ups. One cannot use a Sword simply by getting one, it depends on skill and physical strength. The Raid Suit can be used by anyone. Luffy or Zoro could hypothetically be given Raid Suits, and they'll become a lot more difficult to fight instantly.

I'd prefer to see Oda highlight more of Sanji's fighting prowess physically than on the Raid Suit. I'd rather Sanji used the Raid Suit Germa gave him to spy on women and use it for silly reasons to mock the Germa while using his actual strength to defeat opponents.

It's a bit ironic that people wanted Sanji to defeat his brothers for what they did to him, but they're happy with him using something they gave him because they view him as weak. It's like they got the last laugh. That's how I personally see it at least.

Sanji not really relying on it for power as you trying to enforce as he stated it merely for disguise and espionage tactics, never he said he losing power or feel weak without. Even with the capabilities, his attack and speed is still his own about it.

Sanji can do that, but the issue is that he be fighting openly and it causes the plan to be disruptive more as they will know more of the Strawhats and alliance members are here. It won't help the situation. He is a smart fighter, not like Luffy and Zoro who get into messes easily and cause trouble which backfires on them with Luffy going to jail and Zoro getting lost, wanted, and going down easily from the latest chapter. You do realize Sanji not one to go in head-first and think things through which has been a significant character trait about him since his debut. He not going to go rushing in like a 'badass' only for it to backfired on him and others.

RS doesn't really give him much as I stated above and he stated his reasons about it too, so again your repeated the same cycle over and over again when it been countered by the others and me. RS also isn't cheap as you must use one skill to harness it and get hold of it. It doesn't make someone instantly stronger than others or they know how to fight with it. It is like the sword especially lately about the Black Blades about Zoro has that he been using that is naturally harden blade from Haki. By that logic if someone got their hands on it, they could be quite stronger without training too, right? No again it's all about their own skill that make the equipment strong, nothing cheap about it. Though unlike Zoro, we know Sanji isn't weak without his equipment, he can still fight. Zoro can't do the same without his swords much.

You....Do realize he did just that on latest chapter as he use it for spying on Nami and others and use his invisibility to get info about Bepo and others. He stated what he wanted to do with it. Again probably use for that more and also he said he wanted Franky and Usopp to comment it so you could get your wish on him not relying on features and having Germa's name on it as he still states he hates them and don't want to be affiliated with them. No relationship has change out of this no matter.

Not really as they still got save by him without a RS and if they see how he modified it out of Germa regular RS, they probably be upset after Franky and Usopp do something to it, so still his last laugh overall on the subject. Thinking your overacting and being too picky when we haven't seen how Sanji will fight next time. PO was just for testing it out, not because he will use invisibility to attack and sneak attack. If he did, he could have use it on Drake and Hawkins and be invisible again to attack them.

You guys thinking he do out of character stuff when actuality he won't do that at all as he don't want to fight like a 'Germa', he will still fight like himself hence why he wants modification. I would be upset if he didn't want any modifications, but that shows he still wants nothing to do with being like them.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 4, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 4, 2019 ---

@King Moe Looking at your responses it looks like you are the only one using logic and reason and rest of us have no idea what we speak of.
Can I have the same drugs that you are taking?

You guys seem to be on your own already with your Sanji hate when we were talking about Zoro early, so hey anything to make Zoro look good despite him admitting his own faults. Also don't seem to heed what Pea, M3J, and Lexus are saying and thinking your in the whole right on everything you said when you aren't.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

That isn't really relevant, we're not discussing whether Sanji chose to be visible or not, that's not really important.

It is relevant because you said this:

He defeated an opponent that couldn't see him. Anyone can hit an opponent that can't see them.

• Why couldn't he be seen? because of the Raid Suit

You're implying invisibility here or am I not understanding you correctly?

That's not besides the point simply because you claim Sanji won because of invisibility. If you meant RS abilities in general and not necessarily the invisibility in and of itself then so be it but it didn't sound like that.

I'm not arguing about Sanji's portrayal in the New World, just this claim of yours that Sanji won thanks to invisibility which no one can know for sure at this point and honestly given what we know about Sanji's character it makes more sense that he didn't rely on this ability during the fight.

Again, talking about the invisibility aspect only.

 

[King Moe]

I personally think that Oda made a mistake with cracking Sanji's bones against Vergo. Why do it in the first place? No other reason than to make fun of Sanji since he never made anything out of that cracked bone.
Like pointed out, Usopp's body went through the same thing like Sanji's body so Sanji being weakened as a reason why his bones cracked is really meh.
There were other ways to show that Vergo is strong and to point out his toughness. Sanji could have screamed from pain like Luffy did against Katakuri's armament or he could have used expressions like Ugh, Uff or whatever signifies pain.

The character has been treated poorly, especially in WCI where he was being pushed around. Now I realize why Zoro wasn't part of that WCI team, Oda wouldn't put Zoro through such humiliations and pathetic scenes. Before anyone jumps on me with the faint scene, don't bother...

In Wano, pretty much everyone is a swordsman and whoever gets paired with Zoro will end up losing in a serious fight. Kaido is the only character that Zoro would lose against if he gets paired with him in 1vs1, the only one not being a swordsman. Zoro made a promise after losing to Mihawk that he would never lose again and that is meaning against anyone who calls himself a swordsman. Since he mostly will take on swordsmen in future it also may mean he will never lose at all but if he does I assume it will be against a non-swordsman.

Similar may apply to Sanji, whoever he gets paired with he will end up victorious but the big question is who will he get paired with. King? No freaking way, he will get sliced in half. Queen? Same thing, if those 2 swords on Queen's hips aren't just for show, besides, Queen may go down against Luffy, Kawamatsu, O-lin, Kidd?, Caribou?. Jack? If the beef with the Dukes is ignored and Jack is paired with Sanji, under the assumption that he won't use 1 weapon that he has left or the same plot element kicks in like in Luffy vs Katakuri, so Jack discards his weapons and fights Sanji barehanded. Even then, Oda needs to make it plausible since Sanji's kicks did nothing to PageOne except make him scream, no visible damage whatsoever and they were clean cheap shots that P1 didnt defend against, Jack tanked a chest slash from Shuttenmaru like it's nothing.
Sanji better starts shooting some freaking lasers out of that suit or I dont see how he will beat top dogs.

It was stated already, Sanji came out from Law's power and Nami use his body poorly. You do realize early Usopp comment on how his body was after Nami, hit him, right? It wasn't because by 'plot' it was because he wasn't 100% at the time, but even so he kept on and walk away from it with the 'hurt' leg with no medical treatment at all. It's canon and the truth, you guys denying it shows your biased is not seeing everything that stated about the situation. Like how you try to make Zoro got the hit from Kamazou because he was protecting ladies or distracted when actuality it was all his fault for being careless than them as he admitted himself on more getting pierce that badly. It about reading the atmosphere and looking into deep into the character's to know what is truly the events that happened.

Also why Sanji need to do that with Vergo? He isn't that type of guy as even through intense pain, he won't scream or cry. It called being durable and for him to continue fighting even not at 100% yet, shows he is tough a whole lot on handling pain on his own.

How? His character was handle greatly and only few didn't understand it as they want more 'fight fight' over it. It been explained through Youtubers of Joy Boy, Mr. Morj, Craftsdwarf, and so on. Nothing was wrong in the arc as just few wanted it be more 'dominance' thing when it was more Impel Down' situation. The purpose was not about beating everyone and claiming it, it was about retrieving someone and something and leaving. You can't compare it and Wano as same structure at all. Nah, It wasn't because of that especially he is doing that himself right now in Wano is the supposed 'Zoro's arc' where you guys claim he be taking names and doing heavy damage already, but actuality he was overhype and overrated as shown latest chapter on how the man fainted like he was made of 'glass' .

.....Are you hearing yourself? Dude, your Zoro's stroking is fanboyism to the extreme. This is why people can't take your seriously as you overhype a overrated even when he still admits his faults and got bested in last Chapter XD. Technically he did lose to Kamazou as while he isn't a 'swordsman', he was blade user just the same and for him to faint after the supposed 'durability' greater than even Luffy's who can take Katakuri's spear through his rib, but can still keep fighting, is a disgrace especially if Mihawk was there he probably laugh at the fool for getting his ass-handed to him. No excuse especially you expect us to believe he is suppose to go after King with that lame ass durability? You know King will strike him even harder, so if this all he can do, then he isn't worthy. When he can take out an high-tier opponent without fainting like Luffy and Sanji, then we can talk, but at this point even Usopp surpasses his ass as he took 4-bat to the skull and still got up and even Dressrosa, he didn't faint from losing to Sugar and Trebol either.

So yeah, King or Queen are his future opponents. Stop denying it and be a man on admitting your character isn't as great as he is shown when even he admits it was by his naivety. Queen be fighting Big Mom later, Luffy and others won't fight him and even they do, it won't last long until Big Mom shows up as the foreshadowing her coming to eat his food is going to happen and be a fight between them. Luffy and others will escape as Queen won't go down easily this early on. Also since when are weapons been a issue Sanji can't fight a person like that? Your now being biased and coming up headcannon of your own for your own glory for Zoro and bashing Sanji with failure on your side more lol.

Sanji will do his best and defeat them with ease as you don't need lasers and blades to knock someone out as Luffy proves that,s o keep being in denial my friend. Let's see where it gets you like our past debates on stolen sword, Zoro struggling, Zoro getting defeated, etc.. Funny how you always talk the most something will happen great for Zoro only for it to counter and turn the opposite for him in the end lol. Your proving to be immature the more you think Oda works or think what you think .

 

[nik87]

You guys seem to be on your own already with your Sanji hate when we were talking about Zoro early, so hey anything to make Zoro look good despite him admitting his own faults. Also don't seem to heed what Pea, M3J, and Lexus are saying and thinking your in the whole right on everything you said when you aren't.

Who, aside from you, is speaking about Zoro? If you didnt notice he isnt even the topic of discussion.
And what do Pea, M3J and Lexus say? You keep grabbing onto them when Sanji is criticized.

he won't scream or cry.

He would rather break bones than scream from pain, flawless logic Moe-kun.
As for the rest of your post above, sorry but I wont take the troll bait, Zoro is not the topic of the discussion.

 

[King Moe]

Who, aside from you, is speaking about Zoro? If you didnt notice he isnt even the topic of discussion.
And what do Pea, M3J and Lexus say? You keep grabbing onto them when Sanji is criticized.

He would rather break bones than scream from pain, flawless logic Moe-kun.
As for the rest of your post above, sorry but I wont take the troll bait, Zoro is not the topic of the discussion.

He was before you guys forces Sanji in and there are speaking to him in some posts, so lets get back to him instead of trying to force Sanji in when he actually doing work in Wano unlike fragile swordsman.

What broken bones? He talk walk away and ran later on with same leg with on treatment. Can't be said about Zoro who fainted easily from one strike and needed medical treatment lately. Not troll, it's what happen. Your in denial by denying that case.

 

[Eiyuu Yami]

Now I realize why Zoro wasn't part of that WCI team, Oda wouldn't put Zoro through such humiliations and pathetic scenes. Before anyone jumps on me with the faint scene, don't bother...

Earth is flat. Before anyone jumps on me with the science stuff, don't bother...

 

[nik87]

He was before you guys forces Sanji in and there are speaking to him in some posts, so lets get back to him instead of trying to force Sanji in when he actually doing work in Wano unlike fragile swordsman.

What broken bones? He talk walk away and ran later on with same leg with on treatment. Can't be said about Zoro who fainted easily from one strike and needed medical treatment lately. Not troll, it's what happen. Your in denial by denying that case.

Since page 81 the discussion shifted to Sanji, nice try. Fragile swordsman? Funny coming from someone who worships the guy whose bones broke from simple kicks. The fragile swordsman killed(defeated) his target and only one among Zoro and Kamazou is already back up, the best part of it, it was on panel which we cant say from the broken leg guy's fights.
Fainted easily yeah, you only forgot that he murdered his opponent first, again, on panel.

Earth is flat. Before anyone jumps on me with the science stuff, don't bother...

Neither is it a humiliating nor pathetic scene. One-shotting his opponent just before fainting only speaks of how dangerous One-Slice-Man is.

 

[King Moe]

Since page 81 the discussion shifted to Sanji, nice try. Fragile swordsman? Funny coming from someone who worships the guy whose bones broke from simple kicks. The fragile swordsman killed(defeated) his target and only one among Zoro and Kamazou is already back up, the best part of it, it was on panel which we cant say from the broken leg guy's fights.
Fainted easily yeah, you only forgot that he murdered his opponent first, again, on panel.

Neither is it a humiliating nor pathetic scene. One-shotting his opponent just before fainting only speaks of how dangerous One-Slice-Man is.

He is fragile as a hit like that supposed not to take out the 'Great' Zoro on his 'Great' Durablity that been hype up due to pre-timeskip feats, but now we are in NW, we now see him for who he truly is as a glass man since all it takes is one serious hit to get him down after all. Point is Sanji did hurt his leg, but did he fainted, that's the question ? Nope. Did Zoro fainted after being pierce? Yep. Did Sanji needed medical treatment? Nope, he walk off with it like it was nothing. Did Zoro needed medical treatment from it? Yep !

Tie technically since both went down. Doesn't matter Zoro got the last hit as we seen him been through worse and still standing after besting someone. For him to go down to someone like this hurts his power as doesn't matter if he got revenge. Try that on King and see what happen if King hit him with a fiery blade piercing inside him and cloaking his inside with fire and how will he do? Stop overhyping the overrated and make him more relatable instead of Gary Sue.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Earth is flat. Before anyone jumps on me with the science stuff, don't bother...

This made me lol

 

[nik87]

He is fragile as a hit like that supposed not to take out the 'Great' Zoro on his 'Great' Durablity that been hype up due to pre-timeskip feats, but now we are in NW, we now see him for who he truly is as a glass man since all it takes is one serious hit to get him down after all. Point is Sanji did hurt his leg, but did he fainted, that's the question ? Nope. Did Zoro fainted after being pierce? Yep. Did Sanji needed medical treatment? Nope, he walk off with it like it was nothing. Did Zoro needed medical treatment from it? Yep !

Tie technically since both went down. Doesn't matter Zoro got the last hit as we seen him been through worse and still standing after besting someone. For him to go down to someone like this hurts his power as doesn't matter if he got revenge. Try that on King and see what happen if King hit him with a fiery blade piercing inside him and cloaking his inside with fire and how will he do? Stop overhyping the overrated and make him more relatable instead of Gary Sue.

Yeah, Zoro fainted but did his leg break or maybe his swords? Sanji wouldn't faint from such wound, he would die, unless some Okama blood donors are nearby.
Using your majestic logic, Hody Jones tied with Luffy.
If you are betting against Zoro, the toughest guy among SHs, you are digging your own grave Moe-kun. He will take on far greater injuries than that piercing from Kamazou and he will still beat his opponents.
Zoro isn't overhyped nor overrated, just telling the truth. If I wanted to overhype him I would say he would beat Kaido but even that, who knows...

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

It is relevant because you said this:

Wrong. I never said he chose to be visible. I said he was invisible because of the suit. So, your point here is a strawman. You're arguing points I never argued about in the first place. Can only mean you failed to really understand my point.

Doesn't change the fact that it's true that anyone that can hit an opponent that can't see them.

Nothing I said has anything to do with Sanji choosing to be invisible, never brought that up, so again, irrelevant point.

Again, if you read accuraltely and comprehensively:

This statement has nothing to do with Sanji's choice, but the effects of the suit. So, you're simply wrong.

You're implying invisibility here or am I not understanding you correctly?

I think the issue is that you don't understand that I'm not talking about choosing to be invisible or not, or Sanji fighting fairly. Never brought that up.

I said the fact that the suit makes him invisible makes his achievement against Page One accredited to the suit, not his fighting prowess.

That's not besides the point simply because you claim Sanji won because of invisibility. If you meant RS abilities in general and not necessarily the invisibility in and of itself then so be it but it didn't sound like that.

Semantics.

Perhaps you didn't read the points I made about invisibility and the enhanced durability of the suit.

How is that not the same thing as talking about the abilities of the Raid Suit or crediting his dominance to the suit?

Point is if Sanji won that fight simply from the 2 scenes we saw with Sanji against Page One, the victory is credited to the suit, not his fighting prowess. That much is a fact whether you're in denial about it or not.

I'm not arguing about Sanji's portrayal in the New World, just this claim of yours that Sanji won thanks to invisibility which no one can know for sure at this point and honestly given what we know about Sanji's character it makes more sense that he didn't rely on this ability during the fight.

Again, semantics. He got in all the hits that concluded to the fight thanks to the suit.

First hit was due to invisibility.

Second hit was due to the fact he survived Page One's attack unscathed and the fact Page One had no idea where he was. Not knowing the location of a character has the same effect of invisibility.

So, your point here is moot once again.

Again, talking about the invisibility aspect only.

It's the only reason he got a hit on Page One nonetheless. The suit is the only reason he had any success based on everything we saw.

 

[King Moe]

Yeah, Zoro fainted but did his leg break or maybe his swords? Sanji wouldn't faint from such wound, he would die, unless some Okama blood donors are nearby.
Using your majestic logic, Hody Jones tied with Luffy.
If you are betting against Zoro, the toughest guy among SHs, you are digging your own grave Moe-kun. He will take on far greater injuries than that piercing from Kamazou and he will still beat his opponents.
Zoro isn't overhyped nor overrated, just telling the truth. If I wanted to overhype him I would say he would beat Kaido but even that, who knows...

So fainting isn't worse compare to getting hurt? You hear yourself and Sanji got pierce before from attacks, but never fainted once from a hit. Also using gags huh? Welp guess Zoro got infinity losses with how lost he gets and how Nami beats him time to time as well have him in her debt XD.

Didn't Zoro has DF weaknesses and have same issues as Luffy? Please stop as everyone know Luffy was fighting underwater and he is weak to seawater. Aiming for weakness doesn't make them weak when Zoro doesn't have same weakness either. Your the only one lying to yourself as your post and which Eiyuu and Lexus make fun off at your expense the more you talk non-sense about it. You can say what you want, but it's clear out of everyone, the only one who truly faint when he gets hurt is still Zoro from one attack compare to the others who take more abuse than him and stay awake .

Beg to differ after this chapter. You seen the other websites? Zoro fans are on 'death row' after this chapter as many are not taking them seriously on defending or trying to make excuses when even Zoro admits he fail on it. So keep overhyping a 'overrated' character the more you denied his flaws as let see how Oda work on that each time you try to denied Zoro is 'perfect' when he isn't XD.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

He was always praised for his speed by the crew. He's assumingly as fast as fishmen are underwater.

His crew praised him for his speed underwater. Okay, so he's as fast as a Fishman underwater. Hody is fast underwater too. Jimbei is fast underwater too.

What does that have to do with his speed in a fight? What has his Fishman speed been translated to in a fight?

1. What does this speedmean against Vergo? Joker? Judge?
2. What opponent has said Sanji was too fast for them? What opponent has had issues keeping up with Sanji in a fight? None.

Many characters are praised, but all these adjectives mean nothing because they prove nothing substantial if we don't see how relevant it is or useful against another opponent.

What proves anything is action against another. What has Sanji done against an opponent that indicated or showcased how magnificent his speed was? Who has he speed-blitzed that was formidable?

Statements are all well and good, but the proof is in the Pudding.

Which opponent has Sanji been too fast for despite the fact he was praised for being as fast as a Fishman?

He could easily cover fairly long distances in a matter of milliseconds (and do a couple of things along the way) as was shown in the scene where he saved Lola's sister (dam it memory, work!).

1. Pound is in the air and Oven is on the ground; Pound just pounced on him - his entire focus is on Pound, this isn't a situation where you really have a good view of surroundings.
2. He's furious and all his attention is on Pound - he's emotionally invested, very likely to cause tunnel vision.
3. Oven is roughly 490 centimetres tall while Sanji is about roughly 180 centimetres - Sanji kicked him from underneath his body, a blind spot.
4. Even before and after Sanji got to within kicking distance, Pound and Oven are so close to each other nothing else will appear from their peripheral vision. He's probably unable to even see Chiffon is on the ground at that point.

This scene is mistaken as a feat of speed. It's not a feat of speed. Only people that can't see Sanji are civilians and fodder. All we need is go back to his fights. Not a single opponent of Sanji has ever mentioned how speedy he was. Did Judge have issues with his speed? Did Vergo? Did Daifuku? None.

What really happened here was Oven was distracted by Pound, therefore, he couldn't see Sanji. It's not that Sanji moves so fast that he can't be seen. Only people that won't see him are fodder and civilians. Ironically for his apparent god-speed, even Pudding saw him save Chiffon.

We already know that relative to normal people, Sanji is super-humanly fast. He however is not very fast to other super-humans like Judge, Oven, Daifuku, etc.

The only thing this scene indicates is that Sanji is able to think very fast. He's intelligent and extremely quick-witted. Maybe the quickest witted person in the entire crew. The only thing Oda seems to keep consistent since the time-skip is Sanji's intelligence in terms of strategy and flexibility of mind under intense pressure.

Just going back to your quote, you're talking about his being complimented by his crew. Any Superhuman character can cover a fairly long distance in a matter of milliseconds. It's not something that only Sanji can do. Many superhumans can do this. These are not spectacular feats. They may be spectacular to regular people and fodder, but to relatively strong and decent fighters, he's not some speed king.