Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.
It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.
For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.
As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:
Shanks v Mihawk
Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
Zoro > Luffy
Zoro v Sanji
Is Smoker a top 30 character?
Mihawk's rank within the story
Law having CoC currently.
Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.
If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.
This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.
Many of the same people that use the quote that "Zoro is the strongest crew member after the captain" as evidence for Zoro>Sanji are the same ones that like to argue that Zoro is stronger than Luffy
Yea I think she's specifically talking about nik87 here, Lol.
Since speedster Katakuri who has future sight couldn't hit Luffy with his trident (without assistance), I'm definitely sure Zoro will find it difficult too with his sword. I believe Luffy is above Zoro, but it might be a tricky and difficult fight.
I'll wait to see what the manga have to say, but I see how the databook is as it stated it seems than 'definitely' Zoro is stronger as it said he takes on second strongest judging by that that how they compare against each other. If it going by who they face to determine who stronger than by that argument, Sanji is stronger due to who he face and how Zoro went out in his last fight. Again rather see what the manga shows more.
Yea I think she's specifically talking about nik87 here, Lol.
Since speedster Katakuri who has future sight couldn't hit Luffy with his trident (without assistance), I'm definitely sure Zoro will find it difficult too with his sword. I believe Luffy is above Zoro, but it might be a tricky and difficult fight.
You really think that Sanji has any chance against Zoro? Even if he used Kamazou's scythes, he would have no chance.
You can dance around it all you want it remains fan request.
The fight between them is always a gag so power level makes no difference. Even weakling Usopp is equal to Luffy in gag fights. So weak Sanji can always be equal to Zoro in gag fights.
Headcanon, as usual, but go on, keep entertaining us.
No, you spread the same cancer on every platform that I saw you on and repeat the same toxic posts. I have screenshots of it. Do you need proof of it or your memory serves you right?
Sanji been pierce before by attacks and be tank heavy action and yet he never fainted from a enemy's blow from all the fights in the NW, Zoro on the other hand got easier opponents and now that he has someone who gave him a serious hit, he goes out like that. If we compare pre-timeskip to post-timeskip, Zoro should be able to tank that and still stand and yet he still went down regardless. Try to defend it all you want, but you can't say this doesn't hurts his durability 'feats' badly as many on other websites are stating Zoro has lost his edge (No-pun intended).
You didn't counter my point that Oda pick and chooses that he WANTS (Emphasizing), no one forces him so to choose that especially his history of rivalry between them, it make sense he sees it like that.
Never seen him equal in Luffy in gag fights, you mean the comical skirmishes? Sanji's and Zoro's are less cartoony than that even as a 'gag'. Kepe saying yourself as at least Sanji never faint to anyone in NW like Zoro did. Let me know when Zoro got feats again instead of being overhype by his biased fanbase .
Nah, just yours as you never counter my points and changing subject. Lol, you got mad now you calling it 'cancer'. Calm down, man. Not even serious and now your getting upset over nothing here lol. Learn to take others' advice and let it go on your end like how I am as I don't take it seriously at all.
I'll wait to see what the manga have to say, but I see how the databook is as it stated it seems than 'definitely' Zoro is stronger as it said he takes on second strongest judging by that that how they compare against each other. If it going by who they face to determine who stronger than by that argument, Sanji is stronger due to who he face and how Zoro went out in his last fight. Again rather see what the manga shows more.
I agree with you. I'm not even sure why I'm trying to convince Mr Moe when in fact it wasn't even an argument in the first place, given the revelation in the data book as you rightly stated.
If you can still say this after all I've said regarding the Yonko, then I've lost faith in you dude.
Where does your head leads you every time you read a comment? Are the infos too much for you to digest or are you so engrossed in various debates that you totally forget what people say in previous posts and mix things up altogether?
Corrections mate. I'm no Zoro fan nor Sanji's. I derive my conclusions based on what I've read/watched from the author's work not plain fanboyism.
There's so much character to enjoy so I don't get to be loyal to any single character.
Even Blackbeard and Akainu (whom I dislike based on story portrayal) are interesting characters for me as I get to enjoy wholesomely the work of a genius.
Naturally I see a lot of the MC so he gets the most of my attention (obviously) but I don't fanboy. Ever!
I bash on whomsoever I wish and praise whomsoever again based on author's portrayal.
I don't know if someone like you who created a world of fantasy for himself can understand where I'm coming from but I bet there are people on the thread who do.
I know better than to get emotional over simple debates involving things I do for recreation.
Moreover someone with your reasoning can't hit my neuron much less a nerve. You'd only crack me up at best.
Can't you tell? It's why I like picking on you often. I get to laugh whenever you post a comment.
That should me mine line as your make me lost faith as I thought you were reasonable guy, but like Lexus said your really no better in debates as you have too much fantasy and biased and not enough fair judgment in the end. Also you failed to answer back my counters so I take the win in this argument since you can't do nothing, but criticize your opponent instead of trying to debate honestly.
Ehhh...Your posts don't make many believe you in that statement. Someone wouldn't go that hard on bashing Sanji and defend Zoro, so you kinda rat yourself out on your stance clearly. I admitted on respecting all characters even Zoro, but not gonna give into overhype and denied his flaws like you and others are doing. Zoro can admit his mistakes and yet guys like you can't is so baffling and embarrassing XD.
'Sure you do...Sure you do....' I believe it when I see it, sorry on not believing you.
Probably you as I always bring facts when I state things. You on the other hand believe only yourself as the right and somehow know what Oda does as you question others, but never yourself on mistakes, so you got your work cut out for you man for sure.
Your doing that right now as even Lexus is calling out on this as well M3J too. Your again going for criticizing me instead of being more mature on ending things, so if you do have maturity in those bones, let's make this our last conversation please. This shall be my last post, so please don't post back. If you do, you truly prove what type of 'debater' you on (emotional one). Now let this be our last talk to each other then.
Of course you would wait for the manga, Lol.
If the data book had claimed Sanji was the strongest after Luffy, you'd be rubbing it on everyone's face.
I agree with you. I'm not even sure why I'm trying to convince Mr Moe when in fact it wasn't even an argument in the first place, given the revelation in the data book as you rightly stated.
Actually no, I see Luffy the strongest out of all the crew members. Never said Sanji was stronger in him in any of my talks, that's Zoro fans like you trying to say in your talk that despite the databook, your saying somehow Zoro can be still 'better' than Luffy. I am just saying Sanji and Zoro are still equals, so I am nothing like what your spouting man. No disrespect, but Lexus was replying to you about that post you said about Luffy vs Zoro, just saying.
your saying somehow Zoro can be still 'better' than Luffy. I am just saying Sanji and Zoro are still equals, so I am nothing like what your spouting man. No disrespect, but Lexus was replying to you about that post you said about Luffy vs Zoro, just saying.
Yea I think she's specifically talking about nik87 here, Lol.
Since speedster Katakuri who has future sight couldn't hit Luffy with his trident (without assistance), I'm definitely sure Zoro will find it difficult too with his sword.I believe Luffy is above Zoro, but it might be a tricky and difficult fight.
@Lexusflame I have never used databook saying Zoro strongest after captain to justify why I think Zoro is above Sanji, it's just one of the confirmations for what I have been telling since forever. Also, the reason why I said that Zoro would beat Luffy is because of a far deadlier combat style. No opponent to this day has tanked a clean slice from Zoro, no reason to believe that Luffy will either.
When I speak about Luffy vs Zoro, I remove the plot armors that they get in the story and play out the fight purely based on feats. I understand @kcd saying that Katakuri couldnt hit Luffy so Zoro wont either but you have to understand, as long as the story goes, Luffy has plot armor and cannot die so lethal attacks from Katakuri's spear, no matter how strong he is or whatever character it is, will not be able to kill Luffy. In my purely feat-based fight, Luffy has no such protection and we know that Zoro needs just one clean slice while we dont know how many attacks of Luffy will be needed to take out Zoro.
The issue we have here is Moe's very unrealistic expectations of Sanji's power level, even claiming that Sanji is above Zoro, just because Zoro fainted, while every realistic Sanji fan, who objectively looks at Sanji's combat capabilities will say that Sanji is weaker than Zoro, no contest. Even yourself, said that Sanji is without a doubt weaker character and every other Sanji fan who is realistic about it. The only thing such fans debate is the gap between those characters, if they like Sanji as character they say the gap is small while if they arent satisfied with Sanji's performance they say the gap is big.
Sanji has never tanked more damage than Zoro has and that is a fact. Unless Sanji has taken Kamazou's scythe to the chest and remained on his feet I dont know who are you trying to trick here.
Try to defend it all you want, but you can't say this doesn't hurts his durability 'feats' badly as many on other websites are stating Zoro has lost his edge (No-pun intended).
You didn't counter my point that Oda pick and chooses that he WANTS (Emphasizing), no one forces him so to choose that especially his history of rivalry between them, it make sense he sees it like that.
Nah, just yours as you never counter my points and changing subject. Lol, you got mad now you calling it 'cancer'. Calm down, man. Not even serious and now your getting upset over nothing here lol. Learn to take others' advice and let it go on your end like how I am as I don't take it seriously at all.
I counter all your points but then you hide and claim the "win". I am calling it cancer because people who argue with you call it that way. I am perfectly calm but you seem getting emotional every time someone mentions Sanji in a bad light. You need screenshots to back up my claims that people call you cancerous? You are not taking me seriously? If you didnt realize no one is taking you seriously, on any platform after they see only few posts of yours, they know what they are dealing with.
I am laughing out loud at Moe! He was calling out others that they were too lazy to look up a fact that he himself claimed (Shanks' bounty being higher). While the other guy called Moe out on him making the claim should be responsible enough to back the claim up, and until I think it was Nik, who brought up the link. Damn Moe, you seriously don't know how to discuss in a forum right. Let me guess, you're still in junior high school? Because anyone above an 8th grade education knows that you must cite your references. College is going to be tough for you, if you decide to attend. But besides that fact. You first brought up the databook info about Shanks bounty, not many of us keep up with that. I had no idea until you guys mentioned it, we just thought you were pulling s**t out of your a**, like always. Making stuff up from your imaginary world. Now, now that we know and read the databook and noticed the fact, the FACT, that Oda or whoever wrote that databook or article or whatever it was with Oda's permission, mentioned power rankings among the strawhats. They mentioned that Zolo was the strongest crew member besides the captain, Luffy. Therefore, Luffy>Zolo>Sanji, yet you still want to deny this fact. You are denying the author ODA, himself. You know how crazy that sounds? Just because the you don't like the fact that Sanji is below Zolo, you decide what Oda wrote is not true. You bash on people who bash on Sanji, saying that they are biased and that you only you are factual and unbias towards Sanji, yet you bash on Zolo. You bash on Zolo, from 1 fight, 1 fight where he fainted. & yes Sanji has fainted before from Zolo's hit. Zolo tanked Kuma's attack (Luffy's pain) at TB and did not faint until hours later. But no, Zolo faints after a scythe goes through his shoulder from a killer, and you bash on him calling him weak. Dude if that was Sanji, I am sure he would've fainted right away too. Like it or not Sanji is not as strong as Zolo, maybe now with his RS. Yes his RS is a power up. That's the only thing you got on Zolo, that he fainted, yet we have tons of material on why Sanji is weak, yet you refuse to accept the truth. You need help, seriously.
You said it would be very difficult and tricky despite saying that so your implying Zoro still has a edge over Luffy. Why you think Lexus posted you over that comment. It's not shallow, it's how you going for.
If your going true on Lufff over Zoro, alright then, but just saying your other comment feel like it implied something more.
Cya later.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
WoW your now trying to say Luffy beat him mostly due to plot armor, so your not even trying to accept it, your making more excuses when the truth is front of you lol. Also not really, your the one who said we should judge feats and so far on feat-wise Zoro has weak durability and due to going down like that last chapter, why should we think he can handle a 'long-term' fight with a serious opponent the same way. Your in the denial and your a hypocrite as weren't you the one judging was weak due to the 'broken leg' argument you got counter on so many occasions. I am just giving you same treatment as you give to Sanji as that what you judge in combat, right? So don't be upset cause everything came to bite you in the end with your own argument lol.
I think your now twisting Lexus words as she didn't say anything like that and your forcing things in your way to make it your side. You do realize you got in trouble on that in other website cause you can't learn to agree to disagree and need to twist logic to your own self-righteous ideals since you see yourself as the always right when your not.
He been pierce by Doflamingo's strings, Kuma's lasers, got pierced by Bon's Clay's Swan Style many times, but still keep fighting, etc.. Sanji been pierce before and never fainted from them. Idk where you think Sanji's durability isn't there as your backfiring yourself more.
Oh no, he get his training and redemption probably, but right now he is nowhere near how he was before especially in durability as you can't expect this man to face King and now take a hit without training as that would be BS by far. Everyone is gonna train before their final fights, but even then he won't be King's final opponent from how it's looking especially with Hiyori and probably be with Orochi more. Though even then we don't know who stronger as Luffy and Sanji have their own training as well along the way.
No you didn't you keep on ignoring it still. I am gonna put this as a win if you unable to denied the long history of their rivalry that continues even to this day.
You mean cheap shotted and Sanji was focus on Kuma? Yeah perfect time he should worried or focus on Zoro while in front of Kuma. Your hurting your argument more as you keep on talking and talking, dude.
See, your still mad and haven't change my mind or counter my claims. The moment you refer to cancer you hurt your status to taken seriously as your being more immature as each post goes along as you can't handle proven wrong in the end. Let's be the last post between us as clearly your getting anger each time and you lost the moment you gotten emotional. Lets end this so you have time to rest and rethink to talk to me and others better attitude than this. Let's this be the last post between us unless you want to refer to this side as 'cancer' which gonna make you look stupid more on wanting taking a break is 'bad'.
I am laughing out loud at Moe! He was calling out others that they were too lazy to look up a fact that he himself claimed (Shanks' bounty being higher). While the other guy called Moe out on him making the claim should be responsible enough to back the claim up, and until I think it was Nik, who brought up the link. Damn Moe, you seriously don't know how to discuss in a forum right. Let me guess, you're still in junior high school? Because anyone above an 8th grade education knows that you must cite your references. College is going to be tough for you, if you decide to attend. But besides that fact. You first brought up the databook info about Shanks bounty, not many of us keep up with that. I had no idea until you guys mentioned it, we just thought you were pulling s**t out of your a**, like always. Making stuff up from your imaginary world. Now, now that we know and read the databook and noticed the fact, the FACT, that Oda or whoever wrote that databook or article or whatever it was with Oda's permission, mentioned power rankings among the strawhats. They mentioned that Zolo was the strongest crew member besides the captain, Luffy. Therefore, Luffy>Zolo>Sanji, yet you still want to deny this fact. You are denying the author ODA, himself. You know how crazy that sounds? Just because the you don't like the fact that Sanji is below Zolo, you decide what Oda wrote is not true. You bash on people who bash on Sanji, saying that they are biased and that you only you are factual and unbias towards Sanji, yet you bash on Zolo. You bash on Zolo, from 1 fight, 1 fight where he fainted. & yes Sanji has fainted before from Zolo's hit. Zolo tanked Kuma's attack (Luffy's pain) at TB and did not faint until hours later. But no, Zolo faints after a scythe goes through his shoulder from a killer, and you bash on him calling him weak. Dude if that was Sanji, I am sure he would've fainted right away too. Like it or not Sanji is not as strong as Zolo, maybe now with his RS. Yes his RS is a power up. That's the only thing you got on Zolo, that he fainted, yet we have tons of material on why Sanji is weak, yet you refuse to accept the truth. You need help, seriously.
Again come back when you learn to be less biased on your words and get rid of your emotions when you talk to others as not gonna waste breath with someone who can't learn to write like a adult and more like a immature kid unless you are behind that screen which kinda make sense looking at your writing style. Stop posting back to me and learn to counter points well and not emotional and think people are biased or against you just because they disagree with your claims with actual facts and evidence.
but you have to be honest it's hard to see Zoro as 'stronger' one after last chapter when we know Sanji would never go down in a fight like that even pushed.
no it's not. Zoro still finished the job and took down his enemy despite the stab, and he gave some indication that had Gyukimaru continued to be a threat, Zoro probably would have endured long enough to take him down too. Besides, other than Luffy, when have we seen someone take a stab like that and still continue to fight?
I don't really how Zoro or Sanji fights on Wano so far prove anything about their strength. Page One and Kamazou were as strong as the plot required them to be... and the plot required them to fight Zoro and Sanji.
I don't really how Zoro or Sanji fights on Wano so far prove anything about their strength. Page One and Kamazou were as strong as the plot required them to be... and the plot required them to fight Zoro and Sanji.
Yeah, but at least with PO we can kinda gauge his strength a little bit given that we know he ranks right below the calamities.
Kamazou on the other hand isn't necessary all that strong. The only hint we get is that Zoro says he's strong. Doflamingo said the same thing about Sanji but do we really think that Sanji could put up a good fight against someone of Doffy's caliber?
I personally think that Zoro fainting makes little sense and happened only to move the plot to where it is now.
Yeah, but at least with PO we can kinda gauge his strength a little bit given that we know he ranks right below the calamities.
Kamazou on the other hand isn't necessary all that strong. The only hint we get is that Zoro says he's strong. Doflamingo said the same thing about Sanji but do we really think that Sanji could put up a good fight against someone of Doffy's caliber?
I personally think that Zoro fainting makes little sense and happened only to move the plot to where it is now.
Despite the fact that manga might be giving off different kind of vibe/feeling about Zoro's and Sanji's strength, what I posted on page 93 of this thread was something Oda himself published in Databooks. So even though we have seen some things in the most recent arc, Wano that is, this is mangaka's word and I think it should be considered canon. Unless someone dares to say that Oda's not right in his mind.
I for one do not like the fact that Zoro fainted after match with Kamazou whom he deemed strong by his own very words. Kamazou looked like a fodder to me. I also despise the fact that Sanji needed Raid Suit in order to dispose of Page One quickly. No matter the circumstances I just mentioned, if Oda himself states a certain character of a certain crew is strongest member right after the captain himself, I don't know why there is any arguing whatsoever afterwards.
I posted the thing and asked for an opinion about that, I have no idea why it caused an all-out war between contributors. Or rather between contributors and one other contributor for whose opinion I asked. I do indeed understand why anyone would go on saying that after seeing Zoro faint against Kamazou he/she is not sure about him being the strongest after Luffy in the Strawhats crew, however having Oda himself confirm it I wouldn't argue about it as it's given by the mangaka himself. If the feats do not back up his argument, then it probably means we are in for a nasty surprise by the end of this arc (by that I mean proof of each person's powers and capabilities).
Despite the fact that manga might be giving off different kind of vibe/feeling about Zoro's and Sanji's strength, what I posted on page 93 of this thread was something Oda himself published in Databooks. So even though we have seen some things in the most recent arc, Wano that is, this is mangaka's word and I think it should be considered canon. Unless someone dares to say that Oda's not right in his mind.
I for one do not like the fact that Zoro fainted after match with Kamazou whom he deemed strong by his own very words. Kamazou looked like a fodder to me. I also despise the fact that Sanji needed Raid Suit in order to dispose of Page One quickly. No matter the circumstances I just mentioned, if Oda himself states a certain character of a certain crew is strongest member right after the captain himself, I don't know why there is any arguing whatsoever afterwards.
I posted the thing and asked for an opinion about that, I have no idea why it caused an all-out war between contributors. Or rather between contributors and one other contributor for whose opinion I asked. I do indeed understand why anyone would go on saying that after seeing Zoro faint against Kamazou he/she is not sure about him being the strongest after Luffy in the Strawhats crew, however having Oda himself confirm it I wouldn't argue about it as it's given by the mangaka himself. If the feats do not back up his argument, then it probably means we are in for a nasty surprise by the end of this arc (by that I mean proof of each person's powers and capabilities).
No-no, I know. Of course Zoro will always remain number 2.
Just saying that the way it was shown in the manga kinda makes it seem as though Sanji is doing better overall as of late. It's highly subjective but it just feels that way.
I respect and aware what databook are saying and get where they come from, but still like and rather see how Oda does it in manga/anime and so far we seeing opposite on things especially performance of Sanji and Zoro. He still treat them as rivalries and equals despite databook so perhaps Oda can either change his mind or that its a 'trick question' on it as while Zoro isn't stronger than Luffy, but he can still be equal to Sanji since it didn't mention him in database.
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