One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Personally, I don't think it's possible to tell exactly how strong Page One is nor is there anyway to really know exactly how strong Kamazou is.

Page One while we know he's a headliner, we can't tell if he's really strong to begin with. Sheepshead was also a Headliner, Speed was a Headliner, Holdem was a Headliner and none of them have really looked particularly strong.
Among the headliners, the only ones who have really stood out are the Supernova being Hawkins, X Drake, we can assume to be just as strong as Hawkins, but we've yet to really see any formidable headliner as of yet.

The problem with ranks is it's almost impossible to tell how strong someone is with rank. It's like the Shichibukai title, some are as weak as Buggy/Crocodile and you have some as strong as Mihawk who is up there with the Emperors and Admirals. Any rank that is below the highest of ranks makes it difficult to gauge strength accurately.

The only way to gauge strength as far I'm aware accurately is:

• By certain Titles. If they have the title of Admiral or Emperor, at this point, you just have to assume they're ridiculously strong. Also, If they're Yonko commanders, you have to assume they're strong, but how strong can vary from being fodder to the Emperor or being almost as strong. Besides these, any rank that isn't a Commander of an Emperor, Emperor or Admiral makes it hard to really determine how strong a person is.
• How difficult it took Luffy to defeat said character. This is another way to determine strength and why we can easily say Katakuri is undeniably stronger than Joker, both have fought him and we know Katakuri was the much more difficult fight.
• Comparisons. If they were compared to being as strong as a particular character or stronger. Ashura Doji is said to be as strong as Inuarashi/Jack, so we can gauge strength in this manner too.

Outside of these, I'm not sure of any reliable ways.

General compliments are also not great indicators of strength. Joker went on to compliment Sanji's kicks only to literally fodderise him. Luffy said Hyouzou was strong, and then after that, Zoro more or less 1 shots him.
Luffy said Fujitora and Inuarashi were strong when he initially met them, yet we know he's called someone who was 1 shot at Fishman Island strong. Generally, compliments are not very reliable.

So, between Kamazou and Page One, can't tell how strong either are. Unless it's stated that they're as strong as x-character at this point or said to be close in strength to an all-star rank, I guess their strength lies in the balance.



Disclaimer: These figures are not accurate, juts examples thrown to make a point.

On another note, one of the difficulties in defining strength too is terminology. How is strength defined? If we refer to strength as physical capability, that makes sense. However, the mistake that arises is winning fights can often be used to claim a character is strong even though winning fights doesn't always indicate physical capability.
Caesar is not exceptionally strong, but he can win fights because of a dangerous ability.
So, I guess judging a character comes down to understanding how strong they are physically and how difficult they are to fight depending on how they fight. If I had to assess character, it'd be based on 2 criteria:

• Physical capability (Scale of 1-10 for example)
• and Difficult Fighting Against (DFA) (Scale of 1-10 for example) - Would depend on ability and its complexity. Simple abilities would not be great difficulties.

Examples

Caesar

• Physical capability - 4.5 - He's not all that strong.
• DFA - 6 - He has a dangerous ability, and therefore can defeat strong people by taking out the oxygen.

Luffy

• Physical capability - 8.5
• DFA - 3 - Gomu Gomu no Mi is not a really difficult ability to fight against, the difficulty is a physical one mostly.

Cracker

• Physical capability - 7.5
• DFA - 8 - Ability is incredibly reliable.

This is how I currently view Sanji.

Sanji pre-Raid Suit

• Physical capability - 6
• DFA - 1 - No Ability or Special Equipment.

Sanji Post-Raid Suit

• Physical capability - 6
• DFA - 7-8 - The Raid Suit changes the battle dynamics drastically. While he may not have grown stronger to me, he' a very very difficult fight with the Raid Suit's invisibility, durability and all round capabilities.

I don't think Oda has done much to make Sanji stronger, but with the suit, he's been made to be a much difficult opponent to fight.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Personally, I don't think it's possible to tell exactly how strong Page One is nor is there anyway to really know exactly how strong Kamazou is.

Page One while we know he's a headliner, we can't tell if he's really strong to begin with. Sheepshead was also a Headliner, Speed was a Headliner, Holdem was a Headliner and none of them have really looked particularly strong.

Now I read through your post completely and hope I'm not taking anything out of context, but Page One isn't a simple headliner — he's one of the Flying Six and they are regarded as the six strongest headliners out there.

So if we go by that statement then PO could be stronger than Hawkins, possibly. Though Hawkins is new, so perhaps Beast Pirates themselves don't know what he's fully capable of.

 

[XXGenesis]

Impressive chart & scailing @Hannibal Psyche

Juss watched the anime episode where Luffy finds the RS. Sanji says hebdoesnt want to use Germa's 66 science to get stronger. & Nami comments that science is strong. & notes her climatic rod is science.
& like I said before his RS is the same as Nami's & Usopp's weaponry.

Sanji is a natural born fighter. He's a Vinsmokes, w/O the genetic manipulation. Just like Zoro. Sanji limits himself wit his fighting style. Sanji is a kicking artist & Zoro soon to be Best Swordsmen.

Power levels in One Piece are tricky. When you add DF abilities, it shifts who can defeat who.

I view it this way.
Physical prowness= Speed,Strength, durability, endurance, stamina...

DF ability= this adds a lot of "power/ability" to a user. Does the character purely rely on his DF powers which makes them a threat?Ex. Surgar, Trebol, Robin, Bartomelo.

Are they reliant on their DF for the brunt of their power but also have some pretty decent physical skills Ex. Law, CRACKER, Pica, Crocodile, Ace

Or are they highly skilled with their DF, and strong as hell both complimenting their fighting style. EX Katakuri, Luffy, Oven, WhiteBeard.

Then you have the regular humans who specialize in some type of fighting style or are well Rounded fighters, who have different strentghts and abilities.

Certain characters just can't produce certain feats..Ex. G3 Luffy AOE, Zoro's 3sword style AOE...basically the OZ fight is a good example of how useful and Over all consistent different fighting style and power levels are seen in One Piece.

 

[King Moe]

Now I read through your post completely and hope I'm not taking anything out of context, but Page One isn't a simple headliner — he's one of the Flying Six and they are regarded as the six strongest headliners out there.

So if we go by that statement then PO could be stronger than Hawkins, possibly. Though Hawkins is new, so perhaps Beast Pirates themselves don't know what he's fully capable of.

I agree with your statement, Pea. Also even though Hawkins is kinda 'new'. Kaido is the one who fought him (heavily implied), so he would see Hawkins potential on his power and recruit him instead of killing him since they don't allow weaklings in the crew. If he was strong enough he should be T6H potential like Drake, but instead he just regular Headliner row. Drake while he been there longer, still new in his side too compare to older veterans like Page One. So for him to be up there in ranks show his power is perhaps greater than what Hawkins can do. Don't think they random pick their people they recruit. They go for strong people to join which is why Kaido didn't kill Luffy as he see his power the same.

For Kamazou, he is underling of Orochi. We don't know how he compare to Beast Pirate rankings and such. Though since he gets one-shot easily like regular Headliners like Sheephead, Holdem, etc., he can't be up there as a T6H or above will take more than one hit to beat them since they suppose to be more challenging than regular Headliners after all.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Now I read through your post completely and hope I'm not taking anything out of context, but Page One isn't a simple headliner — he's one of the Flying Six and they are regarded as the six strongest headliners out there.

So if we go by that statement then PO could be stronger than Hawkins, possibly. Though Hawkins is new, so perhaps Beast Pirates themselves don't know what he's fully capable of.

Okay, so he's been called 1 of the 6 strongest. Does that tell us how close he is to becoming a commander like Jack for example?

We have nothing to use as a basis to measure the strength of the Headliners.

Unless we're given a comparison, all being a Headliner means is they hold a high-ranked position. It's no different to being called a Vice-Admiral. We have VAs who are literally fodder and we have those who are capable of being Admirals. All the same rank. It's why I said unless they're ranked as Admirals, Emperors or Right Hands to the Emperors or compared with characters of such calibre or statuses, it's impossible to definitely acknowledge their strength.

If we even assumed Page One was the weakest of the 6, could we say Holdem or Speed were not close to his strength or not? We couldn't. We simply don't know. It's vague.

Hawkins is also apparently new too, we have no idea where he ranks.

Only thing we know for a fact is Sanji fought an opponent whilst using a new device that doesn't increase his strength, but makes him very difficult to fight against as Law said.

And all we know concerning Zoro is that he fought someone who he deemed strong, and only got stabbed by him because of Gyukimaru's involvement; it was more or less a 2 on 1. We also don't know exactly how strong Kamazou is unless we're given some sort of measure via comparison.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Okay, so he's been called 1 of the 6 strongest. Does that tell us how close he is to becoming a commander like Jack for example?

We have nothing to use as a basis to measure the strength of the Headliners.

Unless we're given a comparison, all being a Headliner means is they hold a high-ranked position. It's no different to being called a Vice-Admiral. We have VAs who are literally fodder and we have those who are capable of being Admirals. All the same rank. It's why I said unless they're ranked as Admirals, Emperors or Right Hands to the Emperors or compared with characters of such calibre or statuses, it's impossible to definitely acknowledge their strength.

If we even assumed Page One was the weakest of the 6, could we say Holdem or Speed were not close to his strength or not? We couldn't. We simply don't know. It's vague.

Hawkins is also apparently new too, we have no idea where he ranks.

Only thing we know for a fact is Sanji fought an opponent whilst using a new device that doesn't increase his strength, but makes him very difficult to fight against as Law said.

And all we know concerning Zoro is that he fought someone who he deemed strong, and only got stabbed by him because of Gyukimaru's involvement; it was more or less a 2 on 1. We also don't know exactly how strong Kamazou is unless we're given some sort of measure via comparison.

Can't people just be impressed that Sanji defeated a top 10 member in a Yonko's Army?

Why does there ALWAYS need to be more?

 

[King Moe]

Can't people just be impressed that Sanji defeated a top 10 member in a Yonko's Army?

Why does there ALWAYS need to be more?

Majority are impressed if you look at other platforms. Sadly there be those who want to bag on impressive moments especially those with 'specific' interest.

It won't change anything though as Sanji isn't gonna fight like his family which is why he ended the fight with his speed and power of his own than taking advantage of suit more. Also that he plans on modifying it with Usopp's and Franky's help so that shows more how he still want to fight his own style. Can't wait to see future opponents he will face.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Can't people just be impressed that Sanji defeated a top 10 member in a Yonko's Army?

Why does there ALWAYS need to be more?

Didn't say it wasn't impressive.

He defeated Page One, great.

I'm just being realistic and looking at things in context.

Would be like saying that isn't it impressive that Caesar defeated Luffy+Smoker+Tashigi+Franky+Robin? It is impressive.

Nevertheless, the reality is Caesar won because he has an ability that they didn't understand. What happened once Luffy understood his ability? Did they need 5 people just to take on Caesar, no, just Luffy, and that was that. He didn't win because he was stronger, he was just a difficult opponent.

This is the case with Sanji's win here, he didn't win because he was physically the imposing character. He won because he had an ability/equipment (Raid Suit) which made him difficult to deal with.

Just saying things as they are.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Majority are impressed if you look at other platforms. Sadly there be those who want to bag on impressive moments especially those with 'specific' interest.

It won't change anything though as Sanji isn't gonna fight like his family which is why he ended the fight with his speed and power of his own than taking advantage of suit more. Also that he plans on modifying it with Usopp's and Franky's help so that shows more how he still want to fight his own style. Can't wait to see future opponents he will face.

Your ONE of the people I'm addressing Moe.

You constantly make more out of Sanji than needed. It's not enough that its implied he no-diff'd a Yonko's Elite, no... you have to add his portrayal makes him > Zoro.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 8, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 8, 2019 ---

Yikes, this thread is getting out of hand.

Some of you will receive warnings and a PM for this recent tiff. If you did, bans will follow after another indiscretion.

We can work together on this so that we can enjoy discussing with minimal moderation. Thanks.

Glad you stepped in

 

[King Moe]

Your ONE of the people I'm addressing Moe.

You constantly make more out of Sanji than needed. It's not enough that its implied he no-diff'd a Yonko's Elite, no... you have to add his portrayal makes him > Zoro.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 8, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 8, 2019 ---

Glad you stepped in

What's wrong saying he easily beat him? He came out unscathed and not tired so wouldn't it be a low-diffed? What would you call it?

Well performance wise as not only one who think that on other websites. You can't say Zoro has shown more after latest chapter on how he went down. Just saying Sanji is doing better than him lately. I still do see them as equals end of the day, but you can't say Zoro side has been 'great' especially last chapter.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Change of topic, a bit

 

[Fox666]

We don't know if Page One was defeated. However I'm going to say he probably wasn't, the plan was to allow everyone to get away, and Sanji could too
whenever he wanted. Otherwise the enemy could bring reinforcements, and a strong Haki user could overcome Sanji's invisibility.

Regarding Hawkins being just a Headliner, we have seen him chasing Luffy and Zoro, fighting Law, and being very casual with Jack or X Drake... it's very obvious who's the strongest between him and Page One.

 

[M3J]

Despite the fact that manga might be giving off different kind of vibe/feeling about Zoro's and Sanji's strength, what I posted on page 93 of this thread was something Oda himself published in Databooks. So even though we have seen some things in the most recent arc, Wano that is, this is mangaka's word and I think it should be considered canon. Unless someone dares to say that Oda's not right in his mind.

I for one do not like the fact that Zoro fainted after match with Kamazou whom he deemed strong by his own very words. Kamazou looked like a fodder to me. I also despise the fact that Sanji needed Raid Suit in order to dispose of Page One quickly. No matter the circumstances I just mentioned, if Oda himself states a certain character of a certain crew is strongest member right after the captain himself, I don't know why there is any arguing whatsoever afterwards.

I posted the thing and asked for an opinion about that, I have no idea why it caused an all-out war between contributors. Or rather between contributors and one other contributor for whose opinion I asked. I do indeed understand why anyone would go on saying that after seeing Zoro faint against Kamazou he/she is not sure about him being the strongest after Luffy in the Strawhats crew, however having Oda himself confirm it I wouldn't argue about it as it's given by the mangaka himself. If the feats do not back up his argument, then it probably means we are in for a nasty surprise by the end of this arc (by that I mean proof of each person's powers and capabilities).

I dunno, databooks shouldn't always be taken as 100% fact, it's fact as what was shown in the story so far. It's not like Oda (or any author) will go ahead and list everything that's true like Sabo being alive months before he appeared in the story, that sort of stuff is spoiler. It's perfectly all right to go against what the mangaka says because he's not setting anything in stone unless we actually see it, or there's no hint or implication otherwise.

Zoro could be the strongest after Luffy, but Oda could be saying that because of Zoro's ease of going through his opponents so far whereas Sanji's up against tough opponents. Or hell, he could be saying Zoro is superior just because Zoro has swords and Sanji doesn't use weapons to fight. Who the hell knows? In any case, of all the characters to get serious injuries, Zoro and Luffy still beat their opponents while Whitebeard kept fighting and died standing. Zoro fainting shouldn't take away anything when he actually beat his opponent.

 

[Pirate Queen]

See, but what if the Manslayer just passed out like Zoro did?

Wheres the proof Zoro defeated him? How is this Zoro's win if we dont know the full story? It looks like both lost to me. The manslayer beat Zoro, no more than Zoro beat the Manslayer.

I dont need to be spoon feed an image of Sanji standing over P1 body to know he defeated him any more than I need to be soon feed an image of Zoro in his fight.

How is this counted as a victory for Zoro? I'm not seeing it.

 

[King Moe]

We don't know if Page One was defeated. However I'm going to say he probably wasn't, the plan was to allow everyone to get away, and Sanji could too
whenever he wanted. Otherwise the enemy could bring reinforcements, and a strong Haki user could overcome Sanji's invisibility.

Regarding Hawkins being just a Headliner, we have seen him chasing Luffy and Zoro, fighting Law, and being very casual with Jack or X Drake... it's very obvious who's the strongest between him and Page One.

I respectfully disagree as Sanji and Law made it apparent how important he needs to go down. Plus he was attacking innocent people. It's not Sanji conscious to do that to others which doesn't make sense him abandoning them. Also Page One would have cause ruckus by now as he did same when he came in. Make no sense going quiet now especially he should be anger by Sanji. We didn't see him with Drake and Hawkins and Drake especially upset about Sanji shows he was defeated off-screen. No sense why he still be active around at all no matter which angle.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 8, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 8, 2019 ---

See, but what if the Manslayer just passed out like Zoro did?

Wheres the proof Zoro defeated him? How is this Zoro's win if we dont know the full story? It looks like both lost to me. The manslayer beat Zoro, no more than Zoro beat the Manslayer.

I dont need to be spoon feed an image of Sanji standing over P1 body to know he defeated him any more than I need to be soon feed an image of Zoro in his fight.

How is this counted as a victory for Zoro? I'm not seeing it.

Especially Zoro blackout after the hit. For all we know Kamazou is still active and back at it again as he could have woke up before him or still active even after the hit.

 

[afromarco005]

There is something that I always enjoyed a lot in past Naruto databooks where they would show each character ability in a spider web diagram.
It helped scale the characters strenght and gave a basis for discussions and hypothesis.

That is something that I find is lacking in One piece.

As Hannibal said, scaling characters power level is hard in One piece, even titles like vice admiral dont mean much anymore as it is a wide category going from Maynard to Garp...

Scaling with Luffy's fights could have been somewhat acurate if it wasn't for inconsistencies like Crocodile (seriously marineford Crocoboy has nothing to do with alabasta one) and the fight that it doesnt consider the matchup variable into the equation.

Luffy because of his fighting style can have an easy time against X but a hard time against Y, but it doesnt automatically mean that Y>X.

Haki is another variable that is getting more and more relevant with time. A certain character (ex Kaido) may be physically stronger than another (ex Shanks) but due to haki they are on par.
Haki is also a problem because we arent fully aware of how it works and its limitations (just like sea stone)

Now as we are getting closer to the end of the manga and because of shonen logic it will be harder and harder to guess characters strenght and PL imo.
For ex if as the moeites claim, Sanji beats King or queen this arc 1v1, then when he faces another commander we will be confused as to how they compare to king and it will mess up the "equivalence in strenght of the yonko crews" theory.

 

[nik87]

See, but what if the Manslayer just passed out like Zoro did?
Wheres the proof Zoro defeated him? How is this Zoro's win if we dont know the full story? It looks like both lost to me. The manslayer beat Zoro, no more than Zoro beat the Manslayer.
I dont need to be spoon feed an image of Sanji standing over P1 body to know he defeated him any more than I need to be soon feed an image of Zoro in his fight.
How is this counted as a victory for Zoro? I'm not seeing it.

I think it's pretty safe to assume that someone who takes on a clean slice from Zoro head-on and his eyes go blank on panel and him being sliced pizza style into 6 pieces and blood falls around, is defeated and not just passed out. Is there any character who just passed out from one clean hit from Zoro which would be a logical thing as base for such assumption?

There is a difference here since Manslayer didnt beat Zoro. Manslayer in fact was not able to do anything against Zoro and was only able to land a cheap shot thanks to Gyukimaru's intervention. Then, he was defeated head-on with his own weapon from injured Zoro. Manslayer may be strong but the situation here is very clear.

Due to Sanji's bad performance in New World as a combatant, people are demanding being spoon fed an image of Sanji standing over defeated opponents especially after seeing that his kicks did 0 visible damage to an opponent like PageOne.

How is this not counted as Zoro's victory?

 

[XXGenesis]

Hannibal is being critical. But is making a very good point. He's critizing invisibility being a big part of Sanji's arsenal. Which in turn doesn't give him a constant power up. But a situational power up, that could be nerf'd...Just respect his point of view and agree or disagree, but let's move on.

Is Sanji more impressive than Zoro in this current arc...Thats highly opinionated, whoever you choose, good for you. They boyh dont have much to measure. Personally I'm not in love with Wano arc at all, Luffy is bring focused on a lot. When I personally don't think we need all this screen time of him training. When Zoro & Sanji both need big boost to defeat a YC. At best they are as strong as the best Executives/Flying6 of The Yonko's.

Zoro's last airtime was funky as hell. The same way Sanji's airtime was funky and full of CIS, during WCI. I think we have supporting character fight withdraw.

The Assasin was reasonably strong imo. Nothing spectacular, but skilled. Zoro's wound muscles are stronger than his healthy arm, and then Zoro finished him with a scythe substitute Oni Giri, he was kinda dirt, way weaker than Pica. But perhaps more skilled with a blade. Either way it was Zoro's funky ass feat of getting distracted, having low CoO..but I believe Zoro's stamina is lowered because of the poison water and food he ate before meeting Luffy.

And if you guys don't think Page1 lost, yet didn't pursue Sanji with XDrake & Hawkins...Idk what to tell you. Lol, besides Your probably in denial. But believe what you will. I think this topic has been discussed too much anyway.
...

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

See, but what if the Manslayer just passed out like Zoro did?

Wheres the proof Zoro defeated him? How is this Zoro's win if we dont know the full story? It looks like both lost to me. The manslayer beat Zoro, no more than Zoro beat the Manslayer.

I dont need to be spoon feed an image of Sanji standing over P1 body to know he defeated him any more than I need to be soon feed an image of Zoro in his fight.

How is this counted as a victory for Zoro? I'm not seeing it.

If I'm understanding this correctly, what's there to really question about Zoro's victory?

He got stabbed by the manslayer, Zoro tanked it.

Zoro after tanking the blow, he retaliates with 1 attack which immediately took out the manslayer, he lost consciousness instantly while Zoro was still left standing. It's because Kamazou was no longer a threat that Zoro turned his eyes towards Gyukimaru who left and then he lost consciousness.

How is that not a clear victory?

Yes, he collapsed after, but he did so after he'd defeated the manslayer.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 9, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 9, 2019 ---

In fact, just thinking of the context.

Zoro got stabbed by an attack that he shouldn't have been hit by because he was in a 1v1 situation that turned 2v1 suddenly.

Despite being injured, he still defeated the manslayer.

That's clearly a victory especially since the manslayer never landed the blow because he was just as skilled as Zoro, he only landed it because of Gyukimaru's disturbance. There's no scenario in which Zoro should be the last man standing since he's actually the injured fighter.

If this was a blow that landed due to the manslayer's skill, then could argue that it's just as much his victory. This is however a handicapped Zoro that won a fresh fighter in a state where he was shortly going to supposedly lose consciousness.

This is like an injured Luffy defeating a character that was fresh, maybe they fight for a few minutes, Luffy knocks him out despite being in an injured state and then collapses after defeating this foe.

Can't say the foe was just as much the winner as was Luffy. In that situation, Luffy shouldn't be standing at all. It's clearly his victory just like it's Zoro's victory here.

 

[Pirate Queen]

If I'm understanding this correctly, what's there to really question about Zoro's victory?

He got stabbed by the manslayer, Zoro tanked it.

Zoro after tanking the blow, he retaliates with 1 attack which immediately took out the manslayer, he lost consciousness instantly while Zoro was still left standing. It's because Kamazou was no longer a threat that Zoro turned his eyes towards Gyukimaru who left and then he lost consciousness.

How is that not a clear victory?

Yes, he collapsed after, but he did so after he'd defeated the manslayer.

He was going to pass out whether or not Gyukimaru left unless Zoro personally addresses it later on. Zoro himself acknowledged the seriousness of the wound, he needed to be saved once he was down. You dont really have proof Zoro could have continued because there is no precedent of Zoro taking such a clean stab.

This was the furthest thing from a clear victory, but our ideas of victory can easily differ. I consider it a dual loss.

I'm not going to bash Zoro for his performance and I agree it was a cheap shot. It doesnt change the fact that he was defeated in 1 hit. No matter how long it took for that hit to floor him.

I shudder to imagine this forum if Sanji went down in 1 hit.

Unless you can show me someone take an equally devastating stab and continue on? Whitebeard's the only 1 I can think of and Zoro is no Whitebeard.