One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Shasha23]

Why do you keep insisting that Doflamingo wasn't getting hurt because he was fighting in the air? This gotta be one of the worst attempts of applying physics to the manga I have ever seen. A Human body is not like a piece of paper. Do you think when a baseball bat hit a ball mid-air there's no strength behind it? Jesus.

Maybe Doflamingo was bluffing. Maybe Doflamingo got better from the Gamma Knife injuries. Maybe Luffy is getting tired at a faster rate than Doflamingo. Maybe it's because Doflamingo did not get hit in the face this time. Maybe Gear 2 attacks have less weight behind them than regular ones.

Any of these sounds better than your explanation of Doflamingo's body acting like a piece of paper.

Fujitora is quite incompetent, couldn't keep up with Luffy without even Gear 4.

I cant believe im even agreeing with HPs but what he is saying is completely true, the fact is manga panels prove that when Doffy fought Luffy on the ground he was getting beaten and taking clear damage but the minute he started fighting in the air Luffy's attacks stopped doing damage you cant disprove it no matter how hard you try.

He couldn't have been bluffing about Luffy's attacks not doing damage since he was shown taking damage, he didn't get better from gamma knife as even till his last moment he was still clutching at where he got hit, Luffy wasn't getting that tired your just grasping at straws with this now. Boddy shots did damage as he was visibly showing signs of pain. "Maybe Gear 2 attacks have less weight behind them than regular ones" ill just ignore this LOL

You might not like it but manga and facts prove your wrong and HP is right

 

[M3J]

Coming from the guy claiming that Sanji could defeat Katakuri, hilarious.

Doesn't matter whom Luffy fights, if you actually read the Manga, Luffy defeats whomever he has to fight.

There's a reason Kaido is getting defeated bud.

Which you can't say for sure, unlike Luffy vs. Big Mom even before they clashed.

It matters who Luffy fights. If you actually read the manga instead of twisting it to what you want and forgetting things you don't like, you'll see Luffy lost many times. He lost to Hannybal and as far as I recall, couldn't even finish the fight when he was escaping from Impel Down. Aokiji froze Luffy in place and made Luffy look like a joke. Luffy couldn't do anything to Akainu, Aokiji, Mihawk, or Kizaru. The first Pacifista took everything out of the Straw Hats, and if it weren't for Kuma, they would have all been dead or imprisoned. He also lost to Kaidou in one shot, and he couldn't even hurt Big Mom.

You harp on about consistency all the time for some reason despite claiming you read the manga. And yet, WCI at the very least was inconsistent in that Luffy couldn't do anything to the boss of the crew, whom he usually fights (Lucci, Moria, Doflamingo, etc) and had to fight her underling. Now, if you want to consider every single fight, then Luffy lost the first two rounds to Crocodile (as in he couldn't continue the fight), and Lucci's up in the air as he sent Luffy and I think Zoro away with one hit (I don't count that as a loss though).

Consistency is bullshit, and Luffy doesn't always defeat whomever he has to fight.

Yes, Kaidou is getting defeated as he has to go down to save Wano and its people. The question is how, given the gap in power and the asspulls required if Luffy fights on his own.

Maybe Gear 2 attacks have less weight behind them than regular ones.

According to Doflamingo, Gear 2 attacks lack power. Kinda makes no sense though.

 

[Fox666]

According to Doflamingo, Gear 2 attacks lack power. Kinda makes no sense though.

I would expect Gear 2 attacks to be more powerful, since increasing the speed of an object also increases its potential energy. But I don't recall it being explicitly stated in the manga? I recall pre-timeskip Luffy using Gear 2 against enemies with overwhelming speed.

I cant believe im even agreeing with HPs but what he is saying is completely true, the fact is manga panels prove that when Doffy fought Luffy on the ground he was getting beaten and taking clear damage but the minute he started fighting in the air Luffy's attacks stopped doing damage you cant disprove it no matter how hard you try.

But why in the very same chapter Luffy is jumping, falling, and whatnot and yet he takes damage when Doflamingo hits him?

 

[M3J]

Not only that, but force = mass x acceleration, no? And Luffy's acceleration is quicker so he should be able to deal damage to Doflamingo regardless of air. THough I can understand that the attacks would have little less power in the air because there's no resisting force, ie the ground, to prevent Luffy from losing momentum, if that makes sense.

 

[Fox666]

I doubt you even recall this panel where Joker asks Luffy if he dares challenge him in mid-air. Not sure if you can understand what's being said here, but he's literally implying the mid-air is his forte and Luffy attempting to defeat him there is unlikely when he has the most advantage fighting here.

That's because Doflamingo can fly, genius. Not because it grants him protection against blunt attacks.

 

[afromarco005]

Yonko>>>Current Luffy>>Doflamingo>Sanji that much is certain regarding feats.

Luffy is still under admiral level imo, and I don't see how he will defeat a fresh (not nerfed) yonko without help.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Yonko>>>Current Luffy>>Doflamingo>Sanji that much is certain regarding feats.

Luffy is still under admiral level imo, and I don't see how he will defeat a fresh (not nerfed) yonko without help.

Sanji>=Primewhitebeard

 

[afromarco005]

Sanji>=Primewhitebeard

(and that's without his raid suit)

 

[King Moe]

If how Wano arc is leading and he does beat one if the YC, then he will be above Doflamingo more.

 

[Fox666]

Yonko>>>Current Luffy>>Doflamingo>Sanji that much is certain regarding feats.

Luffy is still under admiral level imo, and I don't see how he will defeat a fresh (not nerfed) yonko without help.

Luffy almost died fighting Katakuri, so I'm not sure if he could defeat Doflamingo without anyone's help.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Luffy almost died fighting Katakuri, so I'm not sure if he could defeat Doflamingo without anyone's help.

If Luffy fought Doflamingo and had FS?

A 100% Luffy? He would wreck Doflamingo, mid-diff.

It seems like your implying Doflamingo > Katakuri lol

 

[Fox666]

Wasn't Luffy at 100%? I don't think his playfight with Bellamy made a difference. Doflamingo on the other hand had his internal organs damaged by Law. Just look at what happened when Luffy tried to fight Doflamingo before, he never managed to land a hit without Law's help, and his Haki wasn't strong enough to block Doflamingo attacks. But after Law hit him with the Gamma Knife, Luffy started a brawling fight with him. So I think Doflamingo was the one at a huge disadvantage.

I'm not sure about how Doflamingo and Katakuri compare. Although I find it quite impressive that Luffy and Law had to fight together to defeat Doflamingo.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Wasn't Luffy at 100%? I don't think his playfight with Bellamy made a difference. Doflamingo on the other hand had his internal organs damaged by Law. Just look at what happened when Luffy tried to fight Doflamingo before, he never managed to land a hit without Law's help, and his Haki wasn't strong enough to block Doflamingo attacks. But after Law hit him with the Gamma Knife, Luffy started a brawling fight with him. So I think Doflamingo was the one at a huge disadvantage.

I'm not sure about how Doflamingo and Katakuri compare. Although I find it quite impressive that Luffy and Law had to fight together to defeat Doflamingo.

You can't outright say Katakuri>Doflamingo

Lol, I can't believe this lol

 

[Fox666]

If I had to choose, I would bet Doflamingo is still the strongest of the two. Luffy needed Law's help the whole time, and Doflamingo was nerfed so he could be defeated. That's quite unusual for an story arc villain.

Also Doflamingo was fearless of Aokiji or Fujitora, while during Big Mom rampage nobody on her crew considered stopping her.

 

[afromarco005]

Luffy almost died fighting Katakuri, so I'm not sure if he could defeat Doflamingo without anyone's help.

Wasn't Doffy overwhelmed by gear 4th?

Since then Luffy has shown tremendous growth in endurance and stamina, he can use gear 4th repeatedly, he has snake man, he has future sight, he has advance armament haki etc.

Luffy is out of his league now.

 

[nik87]

Katakuri is undoubtedly far stronger combatant.

 

[McNuss]

Pretty obvious that Katakuri is stronger, however I think post-Katakuri Luffy wouldn't make that much of a difference. FS is not Super Sayan. There is no power-level inflation in One Piece, and the only Straw Hat that actually jumps power tiers is Nami.

Under Lab conditions, Luffy would still lose to both of them. But that doesn't matter, because Luffy never has lab condition fights either.

This is often missed, but Luffy had help during almost all of his big fights.

Arlong, Crocodile, Enel, Moriah, Hody, Doflamingo, Cracker, Katakuri... Even with Lucci Usopp was necessary to renew Luffy's spirit.
And didn't he needed to be freed from Marianne's Color trap while fighting Galdino?

This often gets missed, but Luffy rarely wins a 1v1, and those are always significantly weaker then those mentioned above. On the Grand Line, we got Wapol, Foxxy, Blueno, and Caesar (in the third round). Hajrudin, Sai and Chinjao technically were a battle royale, but even if you include them you will still see how unfavorably Luffy's fair and square wins compare to the above.

Whenever Luffy has a big fight, he always wins due to specific circumstances and I don't think that will ever change.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Pretty obvious that Katakuri is stronger, however I think post-Katakuri Luffy wouldn't make that much of a difference. FS is not Super Sayan. There is no power-level inflation in One Piece, and the only Straw Hat that actually jumps power tiers is Nami.

Under Lab conditions, Luffy would still lose to both of them. But that doesn't matter, because Luffy never has lab condition fights either.

This is often missed, but Luffy had help during almost all of his big fights.

Arlong, Crocodile, Enel, Moriah, Hody, Doflamingo, Cracker, Katakuri... Even with Lucci Usopp was necessary to renew Luffy's spirit.
And didn't he needed to be freed from Marianne's Color trap while fighting Galdino?

This often gets missed, but Luffy rarely wins a 1v1, and those are always significantly weaker then those mentioned above. On the Grand Line, we got Wapol, Foxxy, Blueno, and Caesar (in the third round). Hajrudin, Sai and Chinjao technically were a battle royale, but even if you include them you will still see how unfavorably Luffy's fair and square wins compare to the above.

Whenever Luffy has a big fight, he always wins due to specific circumstances and I don't think that will ever change.

I'm of the opinion it doesnt get missed all that much. I consider alot of Luffy's fights not pure wins, but fights he breaks even with.

He wins because he stops the "bad guys" not because he's the stronger fighter.

It is the characters that say Luffy wins, and that what is taken as fact.

I also don't think it matters. Luffy thrives most with allies and friends to fight for. That being said, after a fight he should be considered stronger than the person he just fought.

I consider
Current Luffy > Katakuri/Doflamingo

Katakuri couldn't even put down Luffy with HOURS of a head start before Luffy was able to mimic FS.

What happens with Luffy already proficient with FS at the beginning of their fight? A fresher Luffy with more offensive power and more stamina behind him.

And Doflamingo? If Luffy had used King King Gun the first round of their fight Doflamingo would have been 1 shot or at least 2 shot. G4 WRECKED Doflamingo, he had no defences against it.

 

[McNuss]

I'm of the opinion it doesnt get missed all that much. I consider alot of Luffy's fights not pure wins, but fights he breaks even with.

He wins because he stops the "bad guys" not because he's the stronger fighter.

It is the characters that say Luffy wins, and that what is taken as fact.

I also don't think it matters. Luffy thrives most with allies and friends to fight for. That being said, after a fight he should be considered stronger than the person he just fought.

I consider
Current Luffy > Katakuri/Doflamingo

Katakuri couldn't even put down Luffy with HOURS of a head start before Luffy was able to mimic FS.

What happens with Luffy already proficient with FS at the beginning of their fight? A fresher Luffy with more offensive power and more stamina behind him.

And Doflamingo? If Luffy had used King King Gun the first round of their fight Doflamingo would have been 1 shot or at least 2 shot. G4 WRECKED Doflamingo, he had no defences against it.

But Katakuri was only unable to defeat Luffy due to Brulee. FS doesn't increase attack power, and one round of G4 is not enough for Katakuri, that's proven. In addition, Katakuri adapted to FS/Snakeman, there's a panel where he dodges everything. The fight had a heavy psychological component and was deeply routed in the gender roles and family dynamics theme of WCI arc, it was much closer knit into its arc themes than probably any other fight before before, so it is a natural headache for powerlevel discussions

It is unknown if Doflamingo would even get hit by KKG if he hadn't had his organs shred and already taken another G4 beating. You can see him trembling while he pursues Luffy through the streets of Dressrosa, one hand on his stomach if I recall correctly. They were at a point where they both had to decide it; sometimes you play a game for so long that the only option is all in, and Doflamingo took the bait of seeing his advantage in the air.

Under lab conditions, Luffy would go G4 at the start, Doffy takes a beating, but gets up, then could possibly catch Luffy, who still recovers his Haki. It all depends on how much credit one gives to the stomach wound, but I think since Law is a surgeon, and had the intention to kill, we can be sure it was a lethal (!) wound.

Since the Katakuri fight is so difficult to evaluate (and Cracker as well because offscreened) , it is very hard to make a progression curve for Luffy. But often Luffy fights multiple opponents an arc, and two out of three Calamities have fighting style-wise comparatively dull "mini-boss" designs - like Cracker and Blueno when compared to Katakuri and Lucci. So I hope we get some clarity soon.

 

[Pirate Queen]

But Katakuri was only unable to defeat Luffy due to Brulee. FS doesn't increase attack power, and one round of G4 is not enough for Katakuri, that's proven. In addition, Katakuri adapted to FS/Snakeman, there's a panel where he dodges everything. The fight had a heavy psychological component and was deeply routed in the gender roles and family dynamics theme of WCI arc, it was much closer knit into its arc themes than probably any other fight before before, so it is a natural headache for powerlevel discussions

It is unknown if Doflamingo would even get hit by KKG if he hadn't had his organs shred and already taken another G4 beating. You can see him trembling while he pursues Luffy through the streets of Dressrosa, one hand on his stomach if I recall correctly. They were at a point where they both had to decide it; sometimes you play a game for so long that the only option is all in, and Doflamingo took the bait of seeing his advantage in the air.

Under lab conditions, Luffy would go G4 at the start, Doffy takes a beating, but gets up, then could possibly catch Luffy, who still recovers his Haki. It all depends on how much credit one gives to the stomach wound, but I think since Law is a surgeon, and had the intention to kill, we can be sure it was a lethal (!) wound.

Since the Katakuri fight is so difficult to evaluate (and Cracker as well because offscreened) , it is very hard to make a progression curve for Luffy. But often Luffy fights multiple opponents an arc, and two out of three Calamities have fighting style-wise comparatively dull "mini-boss" designs - like Cracker and Blueno when compared to Katakuri and Lucci. So I hope we get some clarity soon.

I know FS doesnt increase power, but of your not getting hit or taking a beating, your stamina and ability to dish out damage vastly increases.

I dont know a single person besides you that puts Katakuri < Doflamingo tho. That's next level confusion.