One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Shasha23]

I'm not talking about Luffy been superior to Law. I'm talking about your statement after that where you claim Diamante was expected to beat Luffy.
That's what I'm asking you to back up and you sure as hell better do.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 26, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 26, 2019 ---

He wasn't second strongest at any point. He was number 1 most destructive guy.
You are most likely confusing these two things.

And im talking about it to debunk your previous statement!

Doffy expected him to beat Luffy in the tournament, thats the whole point he gave him the mera mera no mi, which part of that didnt you get?
He gave him the DF so Luffy can go to the colosseum for it and Diamante can beat him, when he was talking to Riku about Viola betraying him by placing a bet on Luffy and Law, he said Luffy cant beat Diamante and Law is already captured

Who was stronger than Pica in Dressrosa WHO?
!!nah you're the one who doesnt seem to understand how feats and portrayal work!!

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

There is no Doffy subordinate who can take out Pica in stone form while Pica can take all of them out.

Again, this is DF related, not strength. Pica was only relevant BCOS of the disaster level damage he could cos.
The moment he stopped doing that was the moment he lost.
He's nothing without his DF. How in hell can you compare such a weakling to Vergo?

 

[Shasha23]

Like I said. You've definitely misread or misunderstood (in this case).
Law reprimanded both Zoro and Luffy for laughing bcos Pica's focus would be on them and then he'd slow them down from going after Dofy.
They basically became Pica's center of focus which was what Law was trying to avoid not bcos Pica was strong enough to beat them.

So how i am wrong for stating a fact from the manga, explain this logic to me!

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

So how i am wrong for stating a fact from the manga, explain this logic to me!

Because you use this to claim everyone was scared/fearful of Pica. Luffy and Zoro certainly weren't, and neither was Law.

 

[Shasha23]

Again, this is DF related, not strength. Pica was only relevant BCOS of the disaster level damage he could cos.
The moment he stopped doing that was the moment he lost.
He's nothing without his DF. How in hell can you compare such a weakling to Vergo?

So his ability is not his strength WTF
He lost because Zoro was that much more stronger, Vergo fought people weaker than Zoro unlike Pica, feats against the weak cant be compared to feats vs someone levels above

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 26, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 26, 2019 ---

Because you use this to claim everyone was scared/fearful of Pica. Luffy and Zoro certainly weren't, and neither was Law.

So people in Dressrosa did not fear Pica even though they were shown in the manga to be afraid of mecha Pica........ok man its late go to sleep and come back tomorrow

LOL funny how your trying to disprove me with an irrelevant panel of Buffalo that doesnt even disprove me to begin with LOL

 

[Fox666]

Its his whole reason for giving the mera mera no mi to Diamante so Luffy can go fight for it so he can lose, i cant remember but i think the time he said Luffy was a league above Law was when he was talking to Vergo, Monet and CC about Luffy having CoC.

Doflamingo trusted Diamante could win the tournament. But that doesn't mean he had to be the strongest. Sabo won, and while he was the strongest, he used his brains and Diamante and Burgess were still standing...

Law's attacks aren't that strong, countershock is a shitty attack that even internally injured Doffy didnt care much about, Law's attacks are more hex ment to OHKO all his not OHKO attacks are laughable.

Why would it be a shitty attack? Law was surprised Vergo survived.

I don't think I have to post Law feats here to prove how strong he is.

Yes CC called Vergo a monster but all the other executives feared Pica, dont see how that is relevant, CC is not powerful once you know his ability he is trash, base Luffy could have OHKO him anytime if he was serious enough, no way CC stands a chance on Vergo, Pica and Diamante, i exclude Trebol because his showing was poor and his feats are trash no to forget CC's ability would hard counter him

Trebol and the other executives would be trash for base Luffy...

There is no Doffy subordinate who can take out Pica in stone form while Pica can take all of them out.

Defeating a huge opponent is not so much of a feat post-timeskip. For example, Sanji kicked the 80-meters tall Wadatsumi like it was no big deal.

Diamante showed he is capable of making a mountain-sized slice.

Spoiler

Trebol tossed a marine battleship like it was nothing.

Spoiler

Even for Zoro, the biggest problem was Pica hiding inside the rocks. Cutting that statue in half was never an issue...

 

[Shasha23]

Doflamingo trusted Diamante could win the tournament. But that doesn't mean he had to be the strongest. Sabo won, and while he was the strongest, he used his brains and Diamante and Burgess were still standing...


Why would it be a shitty attack? Law was surprised Vergo survived.

I don't think I have to post Law feats here to prove how strong he is.


Trebol and the other executives would be trash for base Luffy...


Defeating a huge opponent is not so much of a feat post-timeskip. For example, Sanji kicked the 80-meters tall Wadatsumi like it was no big deal.

Diamante showed he is capable of making a mountain-sized slice.

Trebol tossed a marine battleship like it was nothing.

Dofflamingo trusted Diamante could beat Luffy thats why he told Riku what he said and why he even gave Diamante the fruit in the first place telling him he is a fighting ginuise and Diamante saying he will kill that boy Luffy

Countershock has not dealt any meaningful damage to anyone, if you think im wrong show me were any of his none OHKO attacks do anything to anyone

Yeap they all would be trash to base Luffy but Doffy thought otherwise

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

So his ability is not his strength WTF
He lost because Zoro was that much more stronger, Vergo fought people weaker than Zoro unlike Pica, feats against the weak cant be compared to feats vs someone levels above

Stop bullshitting.
Zoro was like everyone else when facing Pica in his golem form until Pica came out of his DF mode. He could not do a thing.
He called him out and the fool came out thinking he can accomplish sth without his DF, in the end we got a Zoro win.

DF ability does not relate to strength in this case. We are asking about who is second strongest. Raw strength matters here not DF powers.

It's like asking if Perona or Caribou is strong.
They are all weak if they can't achieve spit without their DF powers.

Caribou can defeat countless of Marine soldiers without breaking a sweat. So can Perona, same with Pica.
They need not actually hitting you with their fist. They'll just use their DF and it's an instant defeat.
Pica from what we've seen in the Manga has no durability, no endurance, some physical strength and that's it. Every feat he has is with his DF nothing else and you call that strong?
He was not shown to withstand a single strike or punch someone with his own hands or endure any sort of pain.
The fool just runs around within stones, taking their forms, getting mountain-sized and causing mayhem with it.

He's nothing to write home about.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 26, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 26, 2019 ---

So his ability is not his strength WTF
He lost because Zoro was that much more stronger, Vergo fought people weaker than Zoro unlike Pica, feats against the weak cant be compared to feats vs someone levels above

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 26, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 26, 2019 ---

So people in Dressrosa did not fear Pica even though they were shown in the manga to be afraid of mecha Pica........ok man its late go to sleep and come back tomorrow

LOL funny how your trying to disprove me with an irrelevant panel of Buffalo that doesnt even disprove me to begin with LOL

I'm debunking your use of "everyone" here mate, stop failing to understand.

It's not irrelevant. It's fact. People don't fear laughing at Pica just bcos of Pica. They are afraid bcos it's a rule no one must go against. A rule made by Doflamingo.

There are more panels where that came from if it'll keep you satisfied.

 

[Fox666]

Dofflamingo trusted Diamante could beat Luffy thats why he told Riku what he said and why he even gave Diamante the fruit in the first place telling him he is a fighting ginuise and Diamante saying he will kill that boy Luffy

Could you please post the exact lines?

 

[Shasha23]

Stop bullshitting.
Zoro was like everyone else when facing Pica in his golem form until Pica came out of his DF mode. He could not do a thing.
He called him out and the fool came out thinking he can accomplish sth without his DF, in the end we got a Zoro win.

DF ability does not relate to strength in this case. We are asking about who is second strongest. Raw strength matters here not DF powers.

It's like asking if Perona or Caribou is strong.
They are all weak if they can't achieve spit without their DF powers.

Caribou can defeat countless of Marine soldiers without breaking a sweat. So can Perona, same with Pica.
They need not actually hitting you with their fist. They'll just use their DF and it's an instant defeat.
Pica from what we've seen in the Manga has no durability, no endurance, some physical strength and that's it. Every feat he has is with his DF nothing else and you call that strong?
He was not shown to withstand a single strike or punch someone with his own hands or endure any sort of pain.
The fool just runs around within stones, taking their forms, getting mountain-sized and causing mayhem with it.

He's nothing to write home about.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 26, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 26, 2019 ---

I'm debunking your use of "everyone" here mate, stop failing to understand.

It's not irrelevant. It's fact. People don't fear laughing at Pica just bcos of Pica. They are afraid bcos it's a rule no one must go against. A rule made by Doflamingo.

There are more panels where that came from if it'll keep you satisfied.

NO ONE BUT ZORO was able to force him out he didnt come out because Zoro said pretty please, he was forced out............. man GTFO

Since when does someone's ability not "relate" to their strength?
They are strong because they have strong abilities thats the point of the DF system from chapter 1!

He doesnt need to go around tanking hits since he is an ability user, please stop with this dump logic!

Yes Pica is nothing to write home about just like Vergo who go OHKO it still doesnt change the fact he was the 2nd strongest in Dressrosa!

Did you fail to see me address the point that the majority of the country ws scared of him in my followup post?

So your Buffalo fact is corrent and my Law fact is not.....................LOLOLOLOLOL

And yet we have multiple people reprimanding Luffy and Zoro for laughing at Pica saying they dont want to die, it doesnt matter if Doffy said so or not the fact is everyone who laughed at him he himself went out of his way to kill not Doffy!

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 26, 2019 ---

Could you please post the exact lines?

Im on my phone, will do it once i get home

 

[Pirate Queen]

Also, all those who expect that Shanks grew stronger since duel with Mihawk, you can expect the same for Mihawk and Mihawk refused to fight has-beens.

Assumption that Mihawk grew stronger after fighting Shanks... at BEST, it's an assumption with no proof lol. Whereas Shanks was actually advanced to become a Yonko.

You yourself remind us that Mihawk is waiting for someone to rival Shanks, and use that as a basis for Mihawk>Shanks

Now it's revealed Mihawk never fought a Yonko Shanks lol

Dont be salty hahaha. I'm sure Mihawk's bounty is 5Billion like WB's. Give us Shanks fanboys a week to celebrate before Oda brings us back to the reality of Mihawk 1shotting the likes of Kaido and Big Mom

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Yes Pica is nothing to write home about just Vergo who go OHKO it still doesnt take away from the fact he was the 2nd strongest in Dressrosa!

Pica also got OHKO if that's what you are trying to say and from someone weaker than Law.
Like I said Pica is a glass cannon at this point. Dofy and Vergo were shown tanking attacks, their punches were quite the hit, their threshold for pain is high, and their durability is laudable.
Meanwhile, the first successful hit landed on Pica did him in.

Again he's nothing without his DF, and just a mass of destruction with it.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 26, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 26, 2019 ---

And yet we have multiple people reprimanding Luffy and Zoro for laughing at Pica saying they dont want to die, it doesnt matter if Doffy said so or not the fact is everyone who laughed at him he himself went out of his way to kill not Doffy!

And if I prove you wrong on this will you concede?
If I showed you a panel of someone getting killed (and not by Pica) bcos they laughed at Pica. Will you still concede?
If I should show you a panel quoting Dofy threatening anyone who laughs at Pica will u even then concede?

At this rate I doubt you will. Prove me wrong though

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 26, 2019 ---

NO ONE BUT ZORO was able to force him out he didnt come out because Zoro said pretty please, he was forced out............. man GTFO

Oi!
Zoro called him out. End of discussion.

View media item 23042
If Pica wanted, he could've remained hidden in the stone even when trapped but instead he responded to Zoro's call.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 26, 2019 ---

Did you fail to see me address the point that the majority of the country ws scared of him in my followup post?

Oh! You did? My bad...

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 26, 2019 ---

They are strong because they have strong abilities thats the point of the DF system from chapter 1!

Without a doubt. But when comparing 2 characters physical strength, which is what we are doing in order to figure out who is strongest, devil fruit isn't taken into consideration.
If we were comparing combat ability, that's a different case, then DF come into play. But here we are debating who's strongest.
Vergo or Pica and it's a no brainer why Vergo is the strongest after Dofy.
I'm not taking DF into play as it has nothing to do with physical strength.

Trebol is not physically strong but his DF ability makes him powerful, granting him decent combat abilities.
Katakuri is super duper strong and his DF+ Future sight makes him nearly invincible granting him one of the best combat abilities we've seen in the series.

Do you get what I'm saying now or am I still sounding confusing to you?

 

[nik87]

@AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA LOL, why are you excluding Pica's DF? Since when are DF's irrelevant in who wins a fight? Pica>any other seat, hands down.

Defeating a huge opponent is not so much of a feat post-timeskip. For example, Sanji kicked the 80-meters tall Wadatsumi like it was no big deal.

Kicking a balloon is a feat? Try kicking a stone mountain, wont do shit to it. There arent many people in OP who could force Pica outside of his stone form.

 

[hokageji]

Kicking a balloon is a feat? Try kicking a stone mountain, wont do shit to it. There arent many people in OP who could force Pica outside of his stone form.

Why is Pica a big deal? I will give you this, Zoro was the best set strawhat to take him down and even that seemed difficult till he did it. Surely Sanji nor Luffy would have the ability at that point to take him down. But thats also because Dressrosa terrain. Doubt Pica would be able to do that if they fought elsewhere.

 

[nik87]

Assumption that Mihawk grew stronger after fighting Shanks... at BEST, it's an assumption with no proof lol. Whereas Shanks was actually advanced to become a Yonko.
You yourself remind us that Mihawk is waiting for someone to rival Shanks, and use that as a basis for Mihawk>Shanks
Now it's revealed Mihawk never fought a Yonko Shanks lol

Why would only Shanks grow and Mihawk not, lol? Did Mihawk make time travel and remained the same?
Mihawk, who wishes for someone stronger than Shanks, refused to fight Yonko Shanks since he considers him a has-been, not worthy of his time.
If Shanks grew stronger than Mihawk why didnt he take away the WSS title from him?

I dont expect a that big of a number for Mihawk's bounty, it has been frozen after all and he has no crew or territories but still, to represent his strength it should be in Billions.

 

[Fox666]

Zoro was like everyone else when facing Pica in his golem form until Pica came out of his DF mode. He could not do a thing.
He called him out and the fool came out thinking he can accomplish sth without his DF, in the end we got a Zoro win.

DF ability does not relate to strength in this case. We are asking about who is second strongest. Raw strength matters here not DF powers.

Pica wasn't that weak without his Devil Fruit, he did fought Zoro for a while.

Pica was defeated so easily because he decided to attack King Riku and turned his back to Zoro.

While I disagree about Devil Fruits not counting when deciding who is stronger, just like you wouldn't call a swordman weak for relying on his sword, I agree that without Devil Fruits Diamante would be stronger than Pica and Trebol.

 

[nik87]

Why is Pica a big deal? I will give you this, Zoro was the best set strawhat to take him down and even that seemed difficult till he did it. Surely Sanji nor Luffy would have the ability at that point to take him down. But thats also because Dressrosa terrain. Doubt Pica would be able to do that if they fought elsewhere.

He is a big deal because very few possess the destructivity to drive him out of stone mountain and not many can deal with a "town falling" onto them.
I agree, there is a terrain advantage/disadvantage, on a ship on the sea, he would be far easier to deal with but in Dressrosa he is trouble for many.
Still, even without terrain advantage, he pulled the same full-body haki feat like Vergo and he uses a big sword which could possibly inflict more damage than Vergo's bamboo stick.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Why would only Shanks grow and Mihawk not, lol? Did Mihawk make time travel and remained the same?
Mihawk, who wishes for someone stronger than Shanks, refused to fight Yonko Shanks since he considers him a has-been, not worthy of his time.
If Shanks grew stronger than Mihawk why didnt he take away the WSS title from him?

I dont expect a that big of a number for Mihawk's bounty, it has been frozen after all and he has no crew or territories but still, to represent his strength it should be in Billions.

Give me proof Mihawk grew? My proof is Shanks becoming a Yonko.... wheres yours?

Hahahahaha, don't be salty

This is too funny

 

[thedude]

Why would only Shanks grow and Mihawk not, lol? Did Mihawk make time travel and remained the same?
Mihawk, who wishes for someone stronger than Shanks, refused to fight Yonko Shanks since he considers him a has-been, not worthy of his time.
If Shanks grew stronger than Mihawk why didnt he take away the WSS title from him?

I dont expect a that big of a number for Mihawk's bounty, it has been frozen after all and he has no crew or territories but still, to represent his strength it should be in Billions.

You make the mistake in thinking growth is equal for everyone. We know that since they battled, Shanks became strong enough to be on equal footing to WB and Kaido, despite their crews dwarfing his.

It's more than likely that Mihawk was a slightly better swordsman than Shanks pre-losing an arm, but Shanks is stronger in every other way.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Mihawk considers Shanks a has been, but the WG considers him strong enough to make him a Yonko??? Hmmm, interesting take on that

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 27, 2019 ---

You make the mistake in thinking growth is equal for everyone. We know that since they battled, Shanks became strong enough to be on equal footing to WB and Kaido, despite their crews dwarfing his.

It's more than likely that Mihawk was a slightly better swordsman than Shanks pre-losing an arm, but Shanks is stronger in every other way.

Also, Mihawk is looking for someone stronger than Shanks, but wont fight Shanks after he got strong enough to become a Yonko???

Doesnt add up lol