One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Pro Ban Corps]

If that was the case his second sword should have been able to cut Kaido as well.... It could not. So Enma is the deciding factor here

Can just input my two dollar and say that sword style doesn’t affect shape of scar... Luffys scar was due to him getting fisted by akainu a fist shouldn’t create X shaped scar

 

[M3J]

He was sick bring ravaged by the illness on his final voyage according to Rayleigh.


He visited Big Mom's island on his final voyage. He was sick and dying, getting weaker.

So obviously, he would avoid fighting Big Mom. He was not at his peak strength, like he was earlier.

He started getting sick before age 50.

Rogers prime was from age 42 years ago until 28 years ago when he got sick.

Roger and Garp hit their Prime way earlier than Whitebeard, Big Mom and Kaido.

They were active 53 years ago. Roger had his crew 53 years ago.

During God Valley he was in his prime, even Whitebeard still has not reached Roger's level in chapter 963.

He does not have Rogers attack scar on his chest nor does he have the WSM title on his intro box.

That's not an excuse, not when Roger enjoys being flashy and getting attention. Roger would want to fight and beat Big Mom as it'd make him even more famous for beating an Emperor. He'd have to be really short on time to avoid fighting her as much as possible and running away, which is odd given her reputation of gathering intel and killing the loved ones of her enemies. Roger would want to take her out.

Yes because the manga established Roger as the strongest while alive, whether false or not, so it'll stick to that narrative until the end or unless the mangaka wants to show that Whitebeard was actually the superior one. I mean, it was in the same arc that Akainu kept insisting Whitebeard failed to become the PIrate King, but Whitebeard's own flashback shows that he never had any such motivation in the first place.

Can you back this statement please?




You said Morgan said Luffy beat Big Mom. I dare you to back this up as well.

Luffy's considered a fifth emperor, but there can only be 4. Meaning he's seen as the closest among normal pirates to become an emperor. Obviously he can't be as strong as an actual emperor. Not yet at least.

https://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-588-page-14.html though I actually thought this was during the Reverie.

As you said, Morgans said Luffy won. And Luffy's alive to tell the tale. Most characters would assume that means Big Mom lost? But I'm sure we saw what Morgans said before chapter 903, but I can't be assed to look for it.

There doesn't have to be 4, there can be more or less than 4, otherwise Luffy wouldn't be considered or hyped as the fifth emperor, but possible emperor to replace an existing one.

 

[AmitDS]

Oh! Now I see where the problem is.

You consider prime WB = WB at his strongest.
I consider prime WB = younger, powerful WB who's neither old nor sick (not necessarily at his strongest) just as shown in the latest chapter.

If you analyse both our views carefully, then you'll notice that in context of the story, whenever prime WB is mentioned, my POV is what is usually meant.
Take Weevil for example, he's said to have a the strength of Prime WB. If what is meant is WB at his strongest, then there'll be 3 admirals sent to capture him now and not fodder marine soldiers, since it took that number of admirals to gain the upper hand against an old WB in Marineford.
Additionally, Weevil would be considered the strongest pirate currently and the new WSM if the definition of prime WB in the story is the way you define it. But he's not. He's just another force to be reckoned with and is definitely not as powerful as the Yonkos.

So I think your definition of prime WB is the problem.



Spot on mate! WB is at his prime here in the Oden clash but not at his strongest, simple.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 25, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 25, 2019 ---

Can you back this statement please?




You said Morgan said Luffy beat Big Mom. I dare you to back this up as well.

Luffy's considered a fifth emperor, but there can only be 4. Meaning he's seen as the closest among normal pirates to become an emperor. Obviously he can't be as strong as an actual emperor. Not yet at least.

I'll disagree with my view being the problem ONLY because talking to people online, whether it be here or online, when they talk about prime they mean strongest version with or without realizing it. Case in point: most people here and on other sites thinks this means that Oden is as strong as Roger and beyond the other emperors apart from WB when he was Roger's rival. So they aren't talking about youth even if the term prime is used for youth most of the time.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

I'll disagree with my view being the problem ONLY because talking to people online, whether it be here or online, when they talk about prime they mean strongest version with or without realizing it. Case in point: most people here and on other sites thinks this means that Oden is as strong as Roger and beyond the other emperors apart from WB when he was Roger's rival. So they aren't talking about youth even if the term prime is used for youth most of the time.

I get why you don't feel like changing your opinion but just because a group of people interpret something one way doesn't mean they are right especially in context of the story.
I'll debunk that notion that Prime WB = Peak WB whenever I come across it here cos I'd rather stick with the author's narrative than fan-based mentality.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 26, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 26, 2019 ---

There doesn't have to be 4, there can be more or less than 4, otherwise Luffy wouldn't be considered or hyped as the fifth emperor, but possible emperor to replace an existing one.

Do you know what the word "Yon" means in Japanese?
If only you can quote a time when there was ever more than 4 emperors existing in One Piece.

 

[AmitDS]

I get why you don't feel like changing your opinion but just because a group of people interpret something one way doesn't mean they are right especially in context of the story.
I'll debunk that notion that (Prime WB = Peak WB) whenever I come across it here cos I'd rather stick with the author's narrative than fan-based mentality.

Prime literally means most successfully, optimum or best quality or form. Even Oda cannot change what 'prime' means in English. Prime is USUALLY associated with one being young because irl and even in manga age weakens people however that doesn't change the fact that in English prime literally means peak and since we only know 70+ year old WB as being weak because of age and illness we cannot say that him at 50+ was not prime because he was older than him at 40.

So if we're talking about 70 year old WB his prime would be younger however if we are talking about 20 year old WB his prime would be older.

This is why Prime WB means peak WB and strongest WB to many because we all generally know what prime means as most of us know English on this forum and on other Western anime/manga forums. So outside of the story we would use 'prime' the same way we use 'strongest' or 'best' i.e. in the way the word is meant to be used in real life.

So in a straight up discussion about power levels prime wb, big mom, kaido, roger, bb, garp and/or shanks refers to them when they are at their most powerful and effective with the least amount of weaknesses acting upon them to weaken their overall power and performance. And the reason people still want confirmation (I am one of them) is because this flashback is only 3 years after WB, Big Mom, Kaido and Shiki were still forming their own crews and stepping out of Rocks' shadow i.e. when they are now building reputations and individual pirates.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Prime literally means most successfully, optimum or best quality or form. Even Oda cannot change what 'prime' means in English. Prime is USUALLY associated with one being young because irl and even in manga age weakens people however that doesn't change the fact that in English prime literally means peak and since we only know 70+ year old WB as being weak because of age and illness we cannot say that him at 50+ was not prime because he was older than him at 40.

So if we're talking about 70 year old WB his prime would be younger however if we are talking about 20 year old WB his prime would be older.

This is why Prime WB means peak WB and strongest WB to many because we all generally know what prime means as most of us know English on this forum and on other Western anime/manga forums. So outside of the story we would use 'prime' the same way we use 'strongest' or 'best' i.e. in the way the word is meant to be used in real life.

So in a straight up discussion about power levels prime wb, big mom, kaido, roger, bb, garp and/or shanks refers to them when they are at their most powerful and effective with the least amount of weaknesses acting upon them to weaken their overall power and performance. And the reason people still want confirmation (I am one of them) is because this flashback is only 3 years after WB, Big Mom, Kaido and Shiki were still forming their own crews and stepping out of Rocks' shadow i.e. when they are now building reputations and individual pirates.

This is the dictionary meaning of Prime in context of most characters in One Piece, WB included.

IMG_20191126_063942.jpg

• AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA
• Nov 26, 2019

PRIME

5. indicates that being prime has a period and it's not just about being at your strongest only.

Being young equates to being prime for the most part.

A 50 year old WB is 20 years younger and more active than a 70 year old WB. That's still prime.
A 30-35 year old WB is 15-20 years younger than a 50 year old WB. That's surely prime.

A 70 year old WB is by no means prime since he's not young anymore. Far from it - even if he displays better physical strength than a 30 year old WB (which shouldn't happen).

Hence Marco noted that a prime/younger WB would've seen Squardo's stab coming from a mile away in Marineford. Which he displayed this chapter detecting Oden yards away. None in his crew saw it coming.

 

[AmitDS]

This is the dictionary meaning of Prime in context of most characters in One Piece, WB included.

IMG_20191126_063942.jpg

• AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA
• Nov 26, 2019

PRIME

5. indicates that being prime has a period and it's not just about being at your strongest only.

Being young equates to being prime for the most part.

A 50 year old WB is 20 years younger and more active than a 70 year old WB. That's still prime.
A 30-35 year old WB is 15-20 years younger than a 50 year old WB. That's surely prime.

A 70 year old WB is by no means prime since he's not young anymore. Far from it - even if he displays better physical strength than a 30 year old WB (which shouldn't happen).

Hence Marco noted that a prime/younger WB would've seen Squardo's stab coming from a mile away in Marineford. Which he displayed this chapter detecting Oden yards away. None in his crew saw it coming.

I never said or implied that prime WB was 70 year old WB though and what you say still doesn't change the fact that prime in English and in the context of what people debate HERE means strongest form/best form. No one talks about prime meaning young only on this site, it's always to do with power and the best and most powerful forms so that's why prime WB doesn't necessarily mean young WB. If WB is at his strongest at age 50 I bet you no one here would call 40 year old WB prime WB. Prime is when he is at his ZENITH which is surely younger than 70 but it is not shown or implied that it is at age 41. Prime WB in terms of what people mean when they talk about him in vs battles or power level threads such as these refers to WB at his most powerful, active, successful and skilled. Nothing tell us that he was not in his prime in his later 40s and 50s since as I said before repeatedly we only know that he was not in his prime in his 70s.

What you are saying is that Prime WB can be age 40 but Strongest WB can be another age which is not what people on here agree with or even in terms of the English language what 'prime' would generally refer to.

If that were the case then Prime WB < Big Mom/Kaido is possible and no one would agree with that.

Prime WB = Strongest WB = Most Powerful WB = WB with all his skills at their max but with no illnesses or age related weaknesses kicking in.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

I never said or implied that prime WB was 70 year old WB though and what you say still doesn't change the fact that prime in English and in the context of what people debate HERE means strongest form/best form. No one talks about prime meaning young only on this site, it's always to do with power and the best and most powerful forms so that's why prime WB doesn't necessarily mean young WB. If WB is at his strongest at age 50 I bet you no one here would call 40 year old WB prime WB. Prime is when he is at his ZENITH which is surely younger than 70 but it is not shown or implied that it is at age 41. Prime WB in terms of what people mean when they talk about him in vs battles or power level threads such as these refers to WB at his most powerful, active, successful and skilled. Nothing tell us that he was not in his prime in his later 40s and 50s since as I said before repeatedly we only know that he was not in his prime in his 70s.

What you are saying is that Prime WB can be age 40 but Strongest WB can be another age which is not what people on here agree with or even in terms of the English language what 'prime' would generally refer to.

If that were the case then Prime WB < Big Mom/Kaido is possible and no one would agree with that.

Prime WB = Strongest WB = Most Powerful WB = WB with all his skills at their max but with no illnesses or age related weaknesses kicking in.

At least we understand each other better. Guess it's high time we agree to disagree.

 

[M3J]

Do you know what the word "Yon" means in Japanese?
If only you can quote a time when there was ever more than 4 emperors existing in One Piece.

That's a crappy counter when the point is that Four Emperors can become Five. Otherwise why not say one of them would be replaced by Luffy?

Obviously there have been at most, four Emperors because majority of the pirates are not strong enough to challenge an Emperor or amass enough power and territories to be considered an Emperor. Luffy isn't strong enough, but he challenged Big Mom and survived, so he was hyped as the fifth Emperor. Blackbeard killed Whitebeard and took his place as an Emperor after a while, I believe, when he gained Whitebeard's former territories and beat the remnants of WHitebeard pirates. And before Shanks and Kaidou, we only had Whitebeard, Big Mom, and maybe Shiki and Roger, so likely two as far as we know.

Nothing states there has to be Four Emperors at all given time, circumstances just led to what we see now.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

And before Shanks and Kaidou, we only had Whitebeard, Big Mom, and maybe Shiki and Roger, so likely two as far as we know.

That's 4 again lol when u include Roger. I'm pretty sure he didn't just go from being a pirate to becoming the PK but was one of the Yonko, and even if he did, it either wasn't a thing back then or there were 4 as usual.

Moreover my point is that at no point in the story where they ever referred to as anything other than the Four Emperors – YONKO. They could've just been called "KO" – (Emperor) whenever any one of the emperor is being referred to but it's always "YONKO".
Nothing indicates there were more or less than 4 emperors since it became a thing in One Piece. So your argument is debunked.

 

[Fox666]

They could've just been called "KO" – (Emperor)

皇 (Sumeragi)



It's odd that Shanks is only a Yonko for 6 years

Is chapter 957 supposed to list the bounties of all Yonko, past and present?

Brannew talks about the bounties of the 4 current Yonko, then mentions Whitebeard and Roger too

Makes it sound like Roger was a Yonko too. Even if Roger did not wanted to rule over anything, he would be recognized as a Yonko by the public like Luffy.

However that would mean Roger is the only Yonko that has not been confirmed yet.

Chapter 957 also makes it clear that neither Shiki or anyone else on Rocks crew has ever been a Yonko

What about the 18 years gap between Roger's death and Shanks becoming a Yonko?

There was also a gap of 1 year between Whitebeard death and people starting to call Blackbeard a Yonko, so maybe everyone was just waiting for someone to replace Roger? Interesting enough, both were part of their predecessor crew

 

[King Moe]

As Orochi keep bringing up and hype by Oda, don't look much as fodder. Oda doesn't give this depth to fodder person. I am seeing more Orochi vs Zoro. Though doubt be easy fight. If he is like real life lore, this might be one of toughest fights for Zoro. To cut something that can't be cut or regenerate as he gain more heads and maybe limbs each time. That could be interesting with his DF and good challenge for Zoro, but still worry on his durability and stamina. After his last fight, hype went off on what his true limit is.

Even with Enma, Haki sucking is major issue to the end. One wrong move, Zoro can get fatal hits on him as Kamazou and Gyukimaro showed.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Spoiler

Arent you get bored with repeating the same lines over and over again?

But I also think Orochis DF makes him a strong opponent, especially since he is quite cunning. But he shouldnt be more then a warmup, if he fights against Zoro.

 

[King Moe]

Spoiler

Arent you get bored with repeating the same lines over and over again?

But I also think Orochis DF makes him a strong opponent, especially since he is quite cunning. But he shouldnt be more then a warmup, if he fights against Zoro.

This first time said it in long while. Mind getting new material as you keep failing with credible meme. Let me help you with that:

Idk about that. We saw that thinking with Kamazou and Gyukimaro, but they became more threat to Zoro than many figure. Oda doesn't waste Mythical Zoan to be fodderize. Got be more to it than that.

 

[Fox666]

As Orochi keep bringing up and hype by Oda, don't look much as fodder. Oda doesn't give this depth to fodder person. I am seeing more Orochi vs Zoro. Though doubt be easy fight. If he is like real life lore, this might be one of toughest fights for Zoro. To cut something that can't be cut or regenerate as he gain more heads and maybe limbs each time. That could be interesting with his DF and good challenge for Zoro, but still worry on his durability and stamina. After his last fight, hype went off on what his true limit is.

Even with Enma, Haki sucking is major issue to the end. One wrong move, Zoro can get fatal hits on him as Kamazou and Gyukimaro showed.

I'm thinking Orochi will be Kinemon's opponent. Kinemon would have all personal reasons to fight him.

 

[nik87]

Zoro's disciple, Momonosuke, is more than enough for Fodderochi.

 

[King Moe]

I'm thinking Orochi will be Kinemon's opponent. Kinemon would have all personal reasons to fight him.

I don't see Orochi being taken down by him. Zoro stated he wants him instead unless team up to beat which I don't mind. His DF could be potential hax if like real life lore.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

This first time said it in long while. Mind getting new material as you keep failing with credible meme. Let me help you with that:

First of all, memes are not supposed to be credible, its just for fun. Second, sachsen meme is more on-point and funny to be honest. Your meme seemed like just another over saturated and exaggerated gag trait of one piece characters.

For zoro, i still believe zoro going for king as his ultimate wano opponent. Thing is, orochi had more personal issues with the kozuki family and retainers, rather than only zoro. It should be them who finished them off,especially momonosuke, rather than a stranger pirate. Oda usually planned this, like when kyros was the one who finished diamante.

 

[LaGOAT]

Zoro low diff orochi if that happens zoro will fight king and kaido

 

[King Moe]

First of all, memes are not supposed to be credible, its just for fun. Second, sachsen meme is more on-point and funny to be honest. Your meme seemed like just another over saturated and exaggerated gag trait of one piece characters.

For zoro, i still believe zoro going for king as his ultimate wano opponent. Thing is, orochi had more personal issues with the kozuki family and retainers, rather than only zoro. It should be them who finished them off,especially momonosuke, rather than a stranger pirate. Oda usually planned this, like when kyros was the one who finished diamante.

Tell that to Zoro who wanted to kill him first before Kyoshiro easily blocked him. Plus hints more thus far, Zoro fought more Orochi's underlings than Beast Pirates. Think Oda want him strictly face someone Samurai related with Orochi as his target overall.