One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

One minute Mihawk wants to gauge the gap between WB and himself, the next he is holding back simply because

You cant make this shit up

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 21, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 21, 2020 ---

Kuma can deflect anything and instantly win by taking you off the battlefield to a place you cannot survive. The guy is broken.

First off he says "between us and that man" (at least in Japanese).

And secondly, it's not like he'd go all out right of the bat. He only used his very normal slash, an unnamed attack.

 

[Erinyes]

Oh really Mihawk is so underestimated
We re speaking of this guy, right ?

Under Kuma, its a joke ? Even Shanks crew fears him. Mihawk is currently the stronger swordman in op world, if he was weaker, it would make no sense for zoro to try to surpass him or even to bow in front of him. Being the stronger swordman in op world means de facto hes equal or even stronger than current Raylegh, he s probably Shanks tier, imo, he was his rival when Shanks had his both arms, he stopped fighting with him when he lost his arm (chap 96) so....

Unless you consider shanks under kuma too ?

 

[jaymizzo]

First off he says "between us and that man" (at least in Japanese).

And secondly, it's not like he'd go all out right of the bat. He only used his very normal slash, an unnamed attack.

Who is us? That actually makes it worse because he shows no confidence in his individual ability.

Spoiler: My word salad

You can be weak but having a hax DF can make up for that. There are a lot of characters whose abilities straight up make them incredibly hax without them being anywhere near top tier - BB in Marineford and Magellan taking out the whole BB pirates. BB went toe to toe with WB (an almost dead one at least) simply because he could cancel his abilities. If you have lust, Hancock will probably end you regardless of how top tier you are.

Thats the point, Kuma has an incredibly broken DF and that's why I put him above Mihawk in terms of ranking. Hell, i would even say WB would have trouble with Kuma simply because of the workings of Kumas DF.

@Erinyes
Rayleigh has been retired for such a long time, I doubt Mihawk ever fought him.

Note that WSS does not mean he fought every single swordsman as shown with his battle with Vista (they never fought before).

 

[Erinyes]

@jaymizzo yeah thats obvious, but i ve never said or implied Mihawk fought Rayleigh

, i ve said he must be around his level possibly better, hes the best swordman of the world, no need to fight every single swordman to prove it we all know this as a matter of fact (and rayleigh is maybe retired but hes still skilled/strong cf Rayleigh vs kizaru ). i was saying he fought shanks several times.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Oh really Mihawk is so underestimated
We re speaking of this guy, right ?

Under Kuma, its a joke ? Even Shanks crew fears him. Mihawk is currently the stronger swordman in op world, if he was weaker, it would make no sense for zoro to try to surpass him or even to bow in front of him. Being the stronger swordman in op world means de facto hes equal or even stronger than current Raylegh, he s probably Shanks tier, imo, he was his rival when Shanks had his both arms, he stopped fighting with him when he lost his arm (chap 96) so....

Unless you consider shanks under kuma too ?

Shanks crew doesnt fear him. You literally provided a panel of them sitting around staring at him... unless of course your talking about the low level no name that first spotted him.

Shanks Commanders just stared at him. Not a single person of note has shown fear or respect like the highest of tier characters.

The WG confronted Mihawk like they did the other Ex-Shichibukai. In fact, to bring in a DEFEATED Doflamingo, they sent a former fleet Admiral a top tier Vice Admiral, despite already having an Admiral present on Dressrosa.

They sent a buster call to deal with Mihawk... who can probably one shot a buster call with a single slash. The WG doesnt show him the respect he most likely deserves. (Hopefully there is at least an Admiral aboard one of those ships confronting him)

My point directly to you is this:

Mihawks strength correlation to Kuma has nothing to do with the fact that Mihawk is the WSS.

Zoro's goal is to be WSS why would Kuma being stronger than Mihawk in anyway alter Zoro's dream? It wouldn't.

 

[HereNThere]

I'd say both facts and context matters.

Recent revelations kinda put Kuma in the same story relevant tier as Mihawk. I wouldn't he surprised if he was the former Revolutionary Chief of Staff given how tight its implied he was with Dragon. He's the only one who hasn't had his position revealed and I doubt he was under the other 5 Officers.

Of course, that's all speculation, but Kuma is still a relevant piece of the story, equal to Mihawk I'd say.

Both stand out from the rest due to their unique circumstances I'd say. Well, Doffy as well, but he served his purpose.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

WSS means that Mihawk is being challenged constantly by all kinds of swordsmen.

And none thus far succeeded to defeat Mihawk. Simple.

He is super strong. Don't sleep on Mihawk comparing him to the rest of the Shichibukai. He's far above them power level wise. You'll see.

 

[Pirate Queen]

WSS means that Mihawk is being challenged constantly by all kinds of swordsmen.

And none thus far succeeded to defeat Mihawk. Simple.

He is super strong. Don't sleep on Mihawk comparing him to the rest of the Shichibukai. He's far above them power level wise. You'll see.

Vista never even tried to seek out Mihawk and when they finally met they fought to a draw and Mihawk asked to postpone the duel....

I'll sleep on him until he proves otherwise.

 

[HereNThere]

WSS means that Mihawk is being challenged constantly by all kinds of swordsmen.

Eh, let's not go crazy. His role in the story is important to Zoro, but the series hasn't really made the position to be that sought after. Hell, Zoro hasn't even fought any rivals who also want to take the title. It's solely Zoro, Kuina, and Mihawk who've mentioned anything about it.

"Underestimating" is the last words I'd use to describe people who are just waiting and seeing. It ain't like folks are saying Kuma is miles above the guy.

 

[XXGenesis]

Kumar & Mihawk are the strongest warlords, hands down. Jimbei,Doffy & Boa are the 2nd tier. Last tier would be Croc & Moriah....

Tier 3 Supernova like feats and power
Tier 2 low-mid yonkou commander potential
Tier 1 As strong as a Yonkou's commander.

This is how I view it. I dont think Mihawk is any stronger than a Yonkou commander. Yea he duels with Shanks, but whos to say Shanks isn't the weakest Yonkou??

 

[HereNThere]

This is how I view it. I dont think Mihawk is any stronger than a Yonkou commander. Yea he duels with Shanks, but whos to say Shanks isn't the weakest Yonkou??

I'd say it's more likely that Mihawk and Kuma are closer to legit Yonkou or Admiral tier than anything. Certainly don't think Shanks is the weakest.

At this point, I think Whitebeard was the strongest Yonkou and the the remaining 3 (+ Blackbeard) are around the same ballpark. Oda hasn't really made them stand too far apart from one another.

 

[Fox666]

This is how I view it. I dont think Mihawk is any stronger than a Yonkou commander. Yea he duels with Shanks, but whos to say Shanks isn't the weakest Yonkou??

There is an enormou difference between a Yonko and their commanders. Enough that Big Mom or Kaido could defeat their strongest commander in a single blow.

The same isn't true about Shanks. He's strong enough to block Whitebeard's bisento, or to stop Kaido from reaching Marineford. So I think it's clear that Shanks is much stronger than the commanders.

Shanks could still be weaker than the others, but the differerence is not big.

 

[XXGenesis]

There is an enormou difference between a Yonko and their commanders. Enough that Big Mom or Kaido could defeat their strongest commander in a single blow.

The same isn't true about Shanks. He's strong enough to block Whitebeard's bisento, or to stop Kaido from reaching Marineford. So I think it's clear that Shanks is much stronger than the commanders.

Shanks could still be weaker than the others, but the differerence is not big.

Nobody said Shanks was equal to a commander. Me believing he could be the Weakest Yonkou doesn't mean I'm saying he's commander lv...

I said i believe Mihawk to be of commander lv. Since he duels with Shanks.


Dont understand how you came to that conclusion..

Either way, when it comes to that debacle, I dont believe swordsmanship is Shanks primary offense. So Mihawk with WSS skills is great enough duel against a Yonkou, but Shanks imo fighting style isn't primarily swordsmanship so he's restricted from FP in these duels. As friends both ptobably find it interesting to test their skills in such ways...

 

[Shasha23]

Nobody said Shanks was equal to a commander. Me believing he could be the Weakest Yonkou doesn't mean I'm saying he's commander lv...

I said i believe Mihawk to be of commander lv. Since he duels with Shanks.


Dont understand how you came to that conclusion..

Either way, when it comes to that debacle, I dont believe swordsmanship is Shanks primary offense. So Mihawk with WSS skills is great enough duel against a Yonkou, but Shanks imo fighting style isn't primarily swordsmanship so he's restricted from FP in these duels. As friends both ptobably find it interesting to test their skills in such ways...

Oda has made this clear over and over that Shanks is a master swordsman and its his fighting style!
Seeing the flashback its pretty clear to see that Shanks based his fighting style from Roger and Rayleigh. Unless you have been leaving under a rock then you might have missed the point of all this, Shanks is Zoro's last stepping stone before fighting Mihawk for the title of WSS, this is also Mihawk's wish, he wants Zoro to surpass Shanks so he can finally have a new rival!

 

[jaymizzo]

Oda has made this clear over and over that Shanks is a master swordsman and its his fighting style!
Seeing the flashback its pretty clear to see that Shanks based his fighting style from Roger and Rayleigh. Unless you have been leaving under a rock then you might have missed the point of all this, Shanks is Zoro's last stepping stone before fighting Mihawk for the title of WSS, this is also Mihawk's wish, he wants Zoro to surpass Shanks so he can finally have a new rival!

And Oda has made it clear over and over again that Luffy will be fighting all the Yonko.

Why Zoro will fight Shanks over Luffy when he doesn't even have a slight connection is laughable.

Zoro has to this day not fought a single noteworthy swordsman. Not one. Even Ryuuma was a zombie and nowhere near his prime.

Mihawk is Zoros stepping stone. Whether Zoro is stronger than Shanks by the time he fights Mihawk is a different story all together.

 

[Shasha23]

And Oda has made it clear over and over again that Luffy will be fighting all the Yonko.

Why Zoro will fight Shanks over Luffy when he doesn't even have a slight connection is laughable.

Zoro has to this day not fought a single noteworthy swordsman. Not one. Even Ryuuma was a zombie and nowhere near his prime.

Mihawk is Zoros stepping stone. Whether Zoro is stronger than Shanks by the time he fights Mihawk is a different story all together.

Yes all that is true but why are you trying to make 1 fact more factual than the other?
Its true Luffy wants to fight all the yonkou (while showing 3 fingers not 4) and its also true Mihawk wants Zoro to beat Shanks, so explain to me why you making 1 fact sound more factual and ridiculing the other please.

For your information, Zoro has to be stronger than Shanks at that point or he cant beat Mihawk even Mihawk wants him to beat Shanks before he fights him for real, that is the whole point and why Oda said what he said!

 

[Deleted member 169696]

For your information, Zoro has to be stronger than Shanks at that point or he cant beat Mihawk even Mihawk wants him to beat Shanks before he fights him for real, that is the whole point and why Oda said what he said!

Could you elaborate on this?

Did Mihawk ever imply that he wants Zoro to beat Shanks specifically? Or do you mean that Zoro has to because Shanks is a swordsman?

And what did Oda say?

 

[nik87]

Did Mihawk ever imply that he wants Zoro to beat Shanks specifically? Or do you mean that Zoro has to because Shanks is a swordsman?

Mihawk wishes that someone surpasses his rival Shanks so he could have a battle to his heart content, something along those words. Vivre card btw.

 

[jaymizzo]

Yes all that is true but why are you trying to make 1 fact more factual than the other?
Its true Luffy wants to fight all the yonkou (while showing 3 fingers not 4) and its also true Mihawk wants Zoro to beat Shanks, so explain to me why you making 1 fact sound more factual and ridiculing the other please.

For your information, Zoro has to be stronger than Shanks at that point or he cant beat Mihawk even Mihawk wants him to beat Shanks before he fights him for real, that is the whole point and why Oda said what he said!

Went about the same logic you were using.

There is no indication that Zoro wants to even fight Shanks or even aware of his significance. Saying someone who will surpass Shanks does not mean he has to fight Shanks... He just has to hold the same respect Mihawk has towards Shanks.

Your last point is basically repeating what I said.

P.S. Lets not forget that Mihawk has not fought Yonko Shanks. The only stepping stone that is cannon towards Zoro being WSS is Mihawk.

 

[Shasha23]

Went about the same logic you were using.

There is no indication that Zoro wants to even fight Shanks or even aware of his significance. Saying someone who will surpass Shanks does not mean he has to fight Shanks... He just has to hold the same respect Mihawk has towards Shanks.

Your last point is basically repeating what I said.

P.S. Lets not forget that Mihawk has not fought Yonko Shanks. The only stepping stone that is cannon towards Zoro being WSS is Mihawk.

Where in my post did you hear me take a piss on the notion Luffy wants to beat all 4 yonko?

Mihawk wants in to happen since he only thinks Zoro can be his true rival after he beats Shanks, Mihawk didnt mean anything about respect, respect does not equate strength, and Oda meant it as strength.

Yes but unlike you im not blinded by warped logic and discrediting what Oda has said!

Lets not forget one can use CoO to gauge how strong someone is, also Shanks has never fought Mihawk after Mihwak reached the level of strongest in the world also do you even know what a stepping stone is?
Mihawk cant be a stepping stone since he is the titleholder and everyone who Zoro has to beat are just insignificant stepping stones for him to reach the top and surpass the holder.