One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[nik87]

Bruh.

He said he'll take on all 4 Emperors. The only distinction he made about Shanks was that he just didn't want him to be the first one he took down. Him holding up three fingers doesn't mean jack when he says, quite clearly (in several translations even), that he wants to take them all down.

I don't even know how to respond to you not thinking Shanks isn't an obstacle. He's one of 4 people who are closest to the title of Pirate King and wants it as well. Of course he's an obstacle.

Hehe, well...
Big Mom was an obstacle to Roger too and he became Pirate King without beating any of the obstacles, not even Big Mom who had the RP.
Times have changed and yes, I get it, he said 4. Still, holding 3 fingers could be a hint that he wont take down all 4, maybe not even 3.
You see a possibility where he doesnt take on Shanks despite saying he wants to take down all 4?

 

[Rmstorm]

Hehe, well...
Big Mom was an obstacle to Roger too and he became Pirate King without beating any of the obstacles, not even Big Mom who had the RP.
Times have changed and yes, I get it, he said 4. Still, holding 3 fingers could be a hint that he wont take down all 4, maybe not even 3.
You see a possibility where he doesnt take on Shanks despite saying he wants to take down all 4?

Roger has defeated Big Mom once at God Valley. Roger and Garp beat the Rocks Pirates with Xebec even dying in the end.

And Luffy will face Shanks, that is who he wants to face the most. Also the only reason why Roger avoided facing Big Mom was because he was sick and was running out of time.

 

[jaymizzo]

Hehe, well...
Big Mom was an obstacle to Roger too and he became Pirate King without beating any of the obstacles, not even Big Mom who had the RP.
Times have changed and yes, I get it, he said 4. Still, holding 3 fingers could be a hint that he wont take down all 4, maybe not even 3.
You see a possibility where he doesnt take on Shanks despite saying he wants to take down all 4?

Thats true. He could also mean he isn't going to take down BM. BM is also a swordsman(woman?) with Napoleon, why isn't she an obstacle to Zoro?

So far, there has only been one obstacle to Zoro being WSS that is cannon within the manga, Mihawk. So far, only one person has expressed the desire to surpass Mihawk, Zoro.

 

[nik87]

Roger has defeated Big Mom once at God Valley. Roger and Garp beat the Rocks Pirates with Xebec even dying in the end.

And Luffy will face Shanks, that is who he wants to face the most. Also the only reason why Roger avoided facing Big Mom was because he was sick and was running out of time.

As I said, we dont know who fought who. Whoever I mention, you say Roger has defeat them. So Roger defeated everyone and Garp did nothing?
You dont know, it is a fact.
I am quite sure Luffy wont fight Shanks and wont defeat either Kaido or Big Mom, whoever Oda chooses to make fall by someone else's hand.

Thats true. He could also mean he isn't going to take down BM. BM is also a swordsman(woman?) with Napoleon, why isn't she an obstacle to Zoro?
So far, there has only been one obstacle to Zoro being WSS that is cannon within the manga, Mihawk. So far, only one person has expressed the desire to surpass Mihawk, Zoro.

Well, it is weird indeed how Oda is handling Big Mom and Zoro. Zoro has been getting build up against Kaido who isnt a swordsman instead getting paired with Big Mom. I dont know what Oda's plan is and why he keeps avoiding BM as Zoro's opponent. He cannot defeat her at this point in time anyway so that is probably the major reason.

 

[Rmstorm]

As I said, we dont know who fought who. Whoever I mention, you say Roger has defeat them. So Roger defeated everyone and Garp did nothing?
You dont know, it is a fact.
I am quite sure Luffy wont fight Shanks and wont defeat either Kaido or Big Mom, whoever Oda chooses to make fall by someone else's hand.

Well, it is weird indeed how Oda is handling Big Mom and Zoro. Zoro has been getting build up against Kaido who isnt a swordsman instead getting paired with Big Mom. I dont know what Oda's plan is and why he keeps avoiding BM as Zoro's opponent. He cannot defeat her at this point in time anyway so that is probably the major reason.

You will eat those words, I'm 100% sure Luffy will face Shanks and Big Mom

 

[nik87]

You will eat those words, I'm 100% sure Luffy will face Shanks and Big Mom

We will see. If Luffy defeats two of the strongest characters in the OP verse in the same arc, we have officially surpassed the BS Naruto final stage power levels.
In that case, I wouldn't care about OP itself anymore.
Regarding Shanks, it can happen, sure. Plot induced stupidity is a thing and when they face Luffy, opponents become stupid, Shanks can throw his sword away.

 

[goldb]

Wanting saying he will do something and Oda making it happen are two very different things. For the purpose of the story, I don't believe it's necessary for Luffy to defeat Shanks. I've always said that they will clash but there won't be any real malice behind it. Shanks will likely want to see the distance between Luffy and himself, their crews will be involved too; holding their own in the process.

I do though believe one of the other 2 will be defeated in this arc, Kaido as he is the principal pirate villain of Wano. Big Mom will drag on for a while after this, as she'll still want Zeus back.

Anyway, let's bring it back to more thread specific discussion please.

 

[M3J]

It's just a popular theory. Not relevant to the discussion at the moment. For some reason I thought me and you had discussed the possibility of BB consuming a 3rd DF. It must have been someone else with a Pink colored name. My bad.

Ooooh. I thought I forgot something.

Probably with kkck. He's a crackhead so he likes crackpot theory.

Luffy fears sword users so much that he ran away from both Fujitora and Cracker.

Very true. Only reason he stopped running and fought Cracker was because of Nami.

Roger has defeated Big Mom once at God Valley. Roger and Garp beat the Rocks Pirates with Xebec even dying in the end.

And Luffy will face Shanks, that is who he wants to face the most. Also the only reason why Roger avoided facing Big Mom was because he was sick and was running out of time.

Oh really? how did he beat Big Mom? Where was it said he and BIg Mom fought (when she wasn't even a freakin' Yonko)? FOr all we know, Big Mom was superior to Roger when he was on the path to becoming the PIrate King.

That's likely true, but unless it's actually confirmed, it's not a fact.



Anyone think Akainu, if not Im, is the strongest character in OP? Dude took hits from Whitebeard and still kept fighting and even took out some of Whitebeard's head, and he has no problem being a douche to seniors and even higher ups. I wouldn't be surprised if Akainu and/or Shanks are at the top of the OP world.

 

[Rmstorm]

Ooooh. I thought I forgot something.

Probably with kkck. He's a crackhead so he likes crackpot theory.

Very true. Only reason he stopped running and fought Cracker was because of Nami.


Oh really? how did he beat Big Mom? Where was it said he and BIg Mom fought (when she wasn't even a freakin' Yonko)? FOr all we know, Big Mom was superior to Roger when he was on the path to becoming the PIrate King.

That's likely true, but unless it's actually confirmed, it's not a fact.



Anyone think Akainu, if not Im, is the strongest character in OP? Dude took hits from Whitebeard and still kept fighting and even took out some of Whitebeard's head, and he has no problem being a douche to seniors and even higher ups. I wouldn't be surprised if Akainu and/or Shanks are at the top of the OP world.

Chapter 957, there is panel Garp and Roger fighting Kaido, Rocks D Xebec, Big Mom abd Whitebeard.

 

[M3J]

Chapter 957, there is panel Garp and Roger fighting Kaido, Rocks D Xebec, Big Mom abd Whitebeard.

Yes I know that. Answer my question though, how did Roger beat Big Mom? Are there panels of them actually fighting? Was Big Mom as strong as she was when Roger went to her territory for the poneglyph? All you have are assumptions.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Yes I know that. Answer my question though, how did Roger beat Big Mom? Are there panels of them actually fighting? Was Big Mom as strong as she was when Roger went to her territory for the poneglyph? All you have are assumptions.

What I have to add is that Sengoku, Akainu. And Garp currently think this union of Kaido and Big Mom is a much bigger threat than Rocks which is why everyone at New Marineford is in a panic. IMHO it would have been the equivelant of fighting 2 Rocks at once and it took Garp and Roger combined to defeat 1 and 4 future Big Names.

So even if Roger did defeat a much weaker BM it's nothing in comparison to if he had defeated her currently.

It does make sense that Roger who was rapidly getting weaker due to illness would avoid a confrontation with a rising Yonko who is trying to establish herself.

 

[M3J]

Exactly. Luffy would be more likely to fight Big Mom because he's young and healthy and has plenty of time. Roger didn't, and although we don't know why he didn't fight her, it's safe to assume he wouldn't have had any issue doing so, given how he stood up against Shiki and how Rayleigh (and Shanks) say Roger never backs down if his friends are in trouble or made fun of, there's no reason to believe Roger wouldn't have fought Big Mom under normal circumstances.
But then again, I also feel like Roger's power is being overestimated.

 

[nik87]

We don't know all the participants of the God Valley battle. How did Roger come there? With his ship? Is there Rayleigh on the ship who helped him in the battle? How did Garp come there? Swam alone or came with a ship that had people who helped in the battle? How many notable Rocks members did take part in the battle? Kaido was only an apprentice. Shiki wasnt a big name. Who exactly was targeting who?

 

[gunsmoke69]

This has always been on my mind. Mihawk is the greatest swordsman of the world. Shanks and Mihawk would always have duels but why isn't Shanks also considered the greatest swordsman of the world. I know that Mihawk lost interest in fighting Shanks after he lost his left arm but how did he receive that title? Did Mihawk beat the former greatest swordsman of the world and take the crown while Shanks was in East blue?

Roger was seen using a sword yet there is no indication of him being the greatest swordsman of the world. Roger even used a sword technique to blow Oden away which classifies him as a swordsman. Why wasn't Roger considered the greatest swordsman of the world given the fact that there was no one other than Whitebeard or Garp who could fight toe to toe with him.

I always thought that haki was the main requirement to awaken a sword. Roger had black Haki radiating from his sword which is probably the most advanced form of haki in OP yet his sword was not awakened? Mihawk on the other hand has awakened his sword. This has confused me as to what the requirements are to awaken a high quality sword. I know that Roger was the strongest in the world but Mihawk is definitely very mysterious.
What do you guys think?

 

[nik87]

I am pretty sure Roger was the greatest swordsman of his era, whether he was called that or not because there is no other swordsman of that era that we know of that could be superior to Roger. However, I dont consider Roger the strongest in the world overall, pretty sure that is Whitebeard.

How Mihawk obtained the title isnt really clear but Vivre card said that he was challenging swordsmen until he had no one left to challenge.
How Mihawk's strength compares to Shanks? Pretty sure he is a stronger individual as they are in the same era, he has black blade and is holder of WSS title.
How Mihawk's strength compares to Roger? Uncertain, they arent in the same era but Mihawk's black blade is a point in Mihawk's favor.

 

[Fox666]

I'm not sure about how strong Mihawk is supposed to be

There's are numerous indications that the Shichibukai are no match for the Yonko, and the Shichibukai strength is comparable to the commanders. This would includes Mihawk

Evidence:

• Garp says the Yonko are the strongest pirates in the world
• The 3 Admirals are called the "World Government's strongest", meaning they are more powerful than any force of the World Government, including the Shichibukai and Cipher Pol
• Mihawk fought equally with Vista during the war
• Kaido mocked Luffy and Law for "defeating a Shichibukai or two"

However, Mihawk is called the "strongest swordman"

• We have seen Shanks or Big Mom using swords. I would expect Mihawk could win against any of them in a sword fight, given his title
• This would also be consistent with Mihawk dueling with Shanks in the past
• Vista and Ryuma are the only known swordman who were capable of turning their blades black

But that raises the question, how was Vista still standing? When the likes of Oden or Roger used their swords, the Whitebeard Pirates were sent flying by the shockwave, including Vista. A Yonko-level swordman should be able to defeat Vista instantly

 

[Deleted member 169696]

@Fox666

Simple solution to your doubts:

Mihawk wasn't serious. Why instakill Vista when you can enjoy the exchange a little longer.

Mihawk is kinda like Saitama. He's bored.

 

[Shasha23]

I'm not sure about how strong Mihawk is supposed to be

There's are numerous indications that the Shichibukai are no match for the Yonko, and the Shichibukai strength is comparable to the commanders. This would includes Mihawk

Evidence:

• Garp says the Yonko are the strongest pirates in the world
• The 3 Admirals are called the "World Government's strongest", meaning they are more powerful than any force of the World Government, including the Shichibukai and Cipher Pol
• Mihawk fought equally with Vista during the war
• Kaido mocked Luffy and Law for "defeating a Shichibukai or two"

• The yonko are the strongest pirates because they are active in their pirate business while the shichibukai arent!
• You are mistaken about something the admirals are not the strongest power of the WG and they have never been called such, the admirals are refered to as the greatest power of marine HQ.
  Marine HQ + Shichibukai = 4 Yonko
• Using feats from the war to power scale is pretty ridiculous
• You really cant take anything Kaido says seriously if the shichibukai were no big deal like he insinuates then many NW pirates would have taken out Mihawk by now but none have, even the yonko, the guy sails the world solo and is undefeated and it is pretty clear many people challenge him and most have grudges even those under the yonko Whitebeard had grudges yet Whitebeard never tried to avenge them even though that was his thing

However, Mihawk is called the "strongest swordman"

• We have seen Shanks or Big Mom using swords. I would expect Mihawk could win against any of them in a sword fight, given his title
• This would also be consistent with Mihawk dueling with Shanks in the past
• Vista and Ryuma are the only known swordman who were capable of turning their blades black

• I am not soo sure about Linlin since its hard for usto say she uses her ability to mainly support her swordplay or if she just uses Napoleon to boost her attack power, as for Shanks then yes he loses every time they fight since he is a swordsman and by default is beneath Mihawk
• Vista doesnt have a black blade, only Ryuma and Mihawk have black blades.

But that raises the question, how was Vista still standing? When the likes of Oden or Roger used their swords, the Whitebeard Pirates were sent flying by the shockwave, including Vista. A Yonko-level swordman should be able to defeat Vista instantly

As we saw Mihawk was playing around in the war, he even toyed with Luffy when it was pretty apparent he could OHKO him anytime, plot limited Mihawk, Garp, Sengoku and the 3 admirals in the war, if Oda had unleashed them the Whitebeard pirates wouldnt have stood a hope in hell.

 

[HereNThere]

We don't know much about Shanks but, prior to losing his arm, he was probably a contender for the title WSS seeing as Mihawk continually sought him out. I wouldn't be surprised if Mihawk gained the title after that. This is mainly why I think that Mihawk is the closest to Yonkou level, if not on it.

It doesn't really matter how he got the title really, the fact that he has it and the fact that he would seek out Shanks gives us enough info for comparisons between the two of them.

As for Roger, he was strong as hell, probably the strongest individual in the world along with Whitebeard, but that does not mean he was the best swordsman. It's possible he was, but I doubt it.

Garp is likely stronger than Mihawk, but that doesn't mean he'd become the WSS if you hand him a sword, despite him technically being able to be classified as a swordsman.

Swordsmen like Zoro, Mihawk, and Ryuma have been shown to dedicate their lives to the practice of swordsmanship which has/will allow them to blacken their blade. Oden was implied to have been near this level as well, but died before reaching it. There's been no such level of commitment to the blade shown by Roger or mentioned by anyone close to him.

 

[Fox666]

The yonko are the strongest pirates because they are active in their pirate business while the shichibukai arent!

Privatees are active pirates, they just give part of their loot to the government

You are mistaken about something the admirals are not the strongest power of the WG and they have never been called such, the admirals are refered to as the greatest power of marine HQ.
Marine HQ + Shichibukai = 4 Yonko

その上には海軍トップセンゴク元帥が君臨するだけ
世界政府の"最高戦力"と呼ばれる3人の内の...一人がその男よ!!!

"The only one above them is the Marine Fleet Admiral, Sengoku
Of the 3 people called "the strongest" of the World Government... he is one of them!!!"

On theory there shouldn't be anyone stronger than a Marine Admiral working for the World Government.

Edit: Fixed typo

Using feats from the war to power scale is pretty ridiculous

And why is that?

The databooks also confirm it:

Spoiler

Blue Deep:

ミホークと互角以上の剣戟を演じるビスタ!!

"Vista showed his swordsmanship which is equal or superior to Mihawk's in this fight"

Vivre Card:

"Vista has the skills to compete with Mihawk, one of the most famous swordsmen in the world. He wasn't afraid to confront him despite knowing Mihawk was the strongest"

You really cant take anything Kaido says seriously if the shichibukai were no big deal like he insinuates then many NW pirates would have taken out Mihawk by now but none have, even the yonko, the guy sails the world solo and is undefeated and it is pretty clear many people challenge him and most have grudges even those under the yonko Whitebeard had grudges yet Whitebeard never tried to avenge them even though that was his thing

IMHO it's clear there's a huge gap between the Shichibukai and the Yonko.

Crocodile was still affected by his loss to Whitebeard. Jinbe was equally matched with Ace, who would become a Commander of Whitebeard. Doflamingo was freaking out when Law said Kaido would come for him. And after Luffy defeated Doflamingo with Gear 4, he couldn't do anything to Kaido.

Besides we were told several times that Luffy would have to defeat the Yonko and Admirals to become Pirate King, which confirms they are the top dogs in the world.

As we saw Mihawk was playing around in the war, he even toyed with Luffy when it was pretty apparent he could OHKO him anytime, plot limited Mihawk, Garp, Sengoku and the 3 admirals in the war, if Oda had unleashed them the Whitebeard pirates wouldnt have stood a hope in hell.

I don't think Mihawk toyed with Luffy. It seems Luffy accidentally used CoO during the fight, and Mihawk intended to cut his hands off.

Luffy decided it would be better to run away, and Vista protected him.