One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Shasha23]

Privatees are active pirates, they just give part of their loot to the government

That was the promise but some dont and just do what they want,

Crocodile probably didnt
Moria probably did
Kuma was no longer an active pirate
Boa would never share with anyone
Doffy didnt and on top of that even sold them weapons from Kaido
Jimbe did since he is loyal
Mihawk has never been shown doing anything pirate like

その上には海軍トップセンゴク元帥が君臨するだけ
世界政府の"最高戦力"と呼ばれる3人のうちの...一人がその男よ!!!

"The only one above them is the Marine Fleet Admiral, Sengoku
Of the 3 people called "the strongest" of the World Government... he is one of them!!!"

Who are you trying to take for a ride?
The katakana in the image does not match the kanji you wrote below!

On theory there shouldn't be anyone stronger than a Marine Admiral working for the World Government.

That is your own head canon, also the WG has people under their control who are already admiral level, e.g Fujitora was not part of the navy but was drafted into the marines and given an admiral rank because he was that level to begin with, saying the WG doesnt have admiral and above level people working for them is just foolish and wrong!

And why is that?

The databooks also confirm it:

Spoiler

Blue Deep:

ミホークと互角以上の剣戟を演じるビスタ!!

"Vista showed his swordsmanship which is equal or superior to Mihawk's in this fight"

Vivre Card:

"Vista has the skills to compete with Mihawk, one of the most famous swordsmen in the world. He wasn't afraid to confront him despite knowing Mihawk was the strongest"

Show me one accurate haki or strength feat that can be passed as accurate after time skip then we can talk, before that all feats from the war are inaurate because of what time skip has shown us.

Like i said Mihawk went from using soo little power that he was toying with Luffy and the likes of Mr1 could block him.
Marko, Jozu and Vista all were able to block Kizaru, Aokiji and Mihawk just because plot required them to do so, do you seriously think any of them are in the same level as the admirals and Mihawk?

IMHO it's clear there's a huge gap between the Shichibukai and the Yonko.

Yes there is a gap since majority are comparable to commanders not yonko, but Oda has already stated Mihawk is above Shanks so your logic is wrong since facts prove your opinion doesnt mater in this case.

Crocodile was still affected by his loss to Whitebeard. Jinbe was equally matched with Ace, who would become a Commander of Whitebeard. Doflamingo was freaking out when Law said Kaido would come for him. And after Luffy defeated Doflamingo with Gear 4, he couldn't do anything to Kaido.

Besides we were told several times that Luffy would have to defeat the Yonko and Admirals to become Pirate King, which confirms they are the top dogs in the world.

Because the yonko are his rivals DUH................ and the admirals will stand in his way

I don't think Mihawk toyed with Luffy. It seems Luffy accidentally used CoO during the fight, and Mihawk intended to cut his hands off.

Luffy decided it would be better to run away, and Vista protected him.

He was toying with Luffy, its pretty clear to everyone except you then.
Luffy used CoO once and that was when he wanted to stop running away from Mihawk and tried to attack, it was a plot device used to protect Luffy, Luffy was running away all the time from him and since he was being driven far away wanted to attack.
Yes Vista protected him just like Marko did


Anyway this debate is useless since Oda has already confirmed Mihawk is stronger than Shanks, making your whole point redundant

 

[Fox666]

Who are you trying to take for a ride?
The katakana in the image does not match the kanji you wrote below!

I think I made a typo there, I wrote うち instead of 内, but that doesn't change the meaning

And the bold text is the important part

世界政府の"最高戦力"

世界政府 is World Government
最高戦力 means the highest fighting strength, supreme battle power, anything among these lines

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 2, 2020, Original Post Date: Feb 2, 2020 ---

That was the promise but some dont and just do what they want,

Regardless of the Shichibukai actually doing they job or not, they are officially part of the World Government, but the Marine Admirals hold the title of strongest fighters

That is your own head canon, also the WG has people under their control who are already admiral level, e.g Fujitora was not part of the navy but was drafted into the marines and given an admiral rank because he was that level to begin with, saying the WG doesnt have admiral and above level people working for them is just foolish and wrong!

Fujitora was a citizen on some country under the World Government, but he was not enlisted in their forces.

Because the yonko are his rivals DUH................ and the admirals will stand in his way

In the context, it seems to refer to their strength

Spoiler

Anyway this debate is useless since Oda has already confirmed Mihawk is stronger than Shanks, making your whole point redundant

By "Oda", you mean the Vivre Card databook?

 

[jaymizzo]

Not very favourably unless its strictly down to swordsmanship.

I can't stress this enough, strongest swordsman is the most skilled person with a sword. It doesn't mean he is stronger than Roger or Shanks if anything else is involved.

 

[nik87]

Not very favourably unless its strictly down to swordsmanship.
I can't stress this enough, strongest swordsman is the most skilled person with a sword. It doesn't mean he is stronger than Roger or Shanks if anything else is involved.

Kanji says nothing about skill. To be the World's Strongest Swordsman you also need physical strength and both CoA and CoO, CoA especially.
That alone tells you that it isnt strictly about swordsmanship unless you consider those under swordsmanship by default.

 

[jaymizzo]

Kanji says nothing about skill. To be the World's Strongest Swordsman you also need physical strength and both CoA and CoO, CoA especially.
That alone tells you that it isnt strictly about swordsmanship unless you consider those under swordsmanship by default.

What is swordsmanship a test of?

 

[nik87]

What is swordsmanship a test of?

All of the above that I mentioned. Sword skill, physical strength and CoA. Should be clear considering Zoro made it so obvious for so many years.

 

[jaymizzo]

All of the above that I mentioned. Sword skill, physical strength and CoA. Should be clear considering Zoro made it so obvious for so many years.

I posted this before, but Kuina is rolling in her grave.

 

[afromarco005]

Roger>Mihawk>Shanks imo

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 3, 2020, Original Post Date: Feb 3, 2020 ---

Privatees are active pirates, they just give part of their loot to the government

その上には海軍トップセンゴク元帥が君臨するだけ
世界政府の"最高戦力"と呼ばれる3人の内の...一人がその男よ!!!

"The only one above them is the Marine Fleet Admiral, Sengoku
Of the 3 people called "the strongest" of the World Government... he is one of them!!!"

On theory there shouldn't be anyone stronger than a Marine Admiral working for the World Government.

Edit: Fixed typo


And why is that?

The databooks also confirm it:

Spoiler

Blue Deep:

ミホークと互角以上の剣戟を演じるビスタ!!

"Vista showed his swordsmanship which is equal or superior to Mihawk's in this fight"

Vivre Card:

"Vista has the skills to compete with Mihawk, one of the most famous swordsmen in the world. He wasn't afraid to confront him despite knowing Mihawk was the strongest"

IMHO it's clear there's a huge gap between the Shichibukai and the Yonko.

Crocodile was still affected by his loss to Whitebeard. Jinbe was equally matched with Ace, who would become a Commander of Whitebeard. Doflamingo was freaking out when Law said Kaido would come for him. And after Luffy defeated Doflamingo with Gear 4, he couldn't do anything to Kaido.

Besides we were told several times that Luffy would have to defeat the Yonko and Admirals to become Pirate King, which confirms they are the top dogs in the world.


I don't think Mihawk toyed with Luffy. It seems Luffy accidentally used CoO during the fight, and Mihawk intended to cut his hands off.

Luffy decided it would be better to run away, and Vista protected him.

your Mihawh downplay is unreal dude.

 

[Fox666]

Kanji says nothing about skill. To be the World's Strongest Swordsman you also need physical strength and both CoA and CoO, CoA especially.
That alone tells you that it isnt strictly about swordsmanship unless you consider those under swordsmanship by default.

There's no perfect translation. You would only use the English word "strength" for physical strength. In Japanese a character could fire lasers from his eyes and others would talk about his "strength".

your Mihawh downplay is unreal dude.

Why? I'm only using information from the manga and databooks

 

[Shasha23]

There's no perfect translation. You would only use the English word "strength" for physical strength. In Japanese a character could fire lasers from his eyes and others would talk about his "strength".

Its not about prefered translations, this is what his title is:
世界最強の剣士
Sekai saikyō no kenshi / Worlds Strongest Swordsman

You and the rest of the Mihawk haters are saying his title is this:

世界最大の剣士
Sekai saidai no kenshi; which is wrong and is showing everyone your hate for Mihawk and his strength

Why? I'm only using information from the manga and databooks

Information from Oda via data books and manga states this:

• Mihawk is the strongest swordsman and none is above him;
• Shanks is a swordsman and by default is weaker than Mihawk;
• Mihawk calls his power the ultimate power;
• Mihawk wants Zoro be his new rival;
• Mihawk wants Zoro to surpass Shanks before he fights him again;

You saying otherwise means:

1. You're a liar
2. You're a hater of Mihawk
3. You hate the fact Zoro will be > the yonko EOS

 

[jaymizzo]

Its not about prefered translations, this is what his title is:
世界最強の剣士
Sekai saikyō no kenshi / Worlds Strongest Swordsman

You and the rest of the Mihawk haters are saying his title is this:

世界最大の剣士
Sekai saidai no kenshi; witch is wrong and is showing everyone your hate for Mihawk and his strength





Information from Oda vis data books and manga states this:

• Mihawk is the strongest swordsman and none is above him;
• Shanks is a swordsman and by default is weaker than Mihawk;
• Mihawk calls his power the ultimate power;
• Mihawk wants Zoro be his new rival;
• Mihawk wants Zoro to surpass Shanks before he fights him again;

You saying otherwise means:

1. You're a liar
2. You're a hater of Mihawk
3. You hate the fact Zoro will be > the yonko EOS

Keyword: Swordsman.

If only Mihawk had fought Yonko Shanks though. If only Mihawk made Vista quack in his boots. If only Mihawk was stronger than BM (who uses Napoleon). If only being skilled with a sword makes you win by default though.

Because Shanks is a swordsman and a swordsman only... I laugh in Mihawk "hate" that anyone who is holding a sword will automatically lose against him. Its like, WB would lose against Mihawk if he was holding a sword, regardless of any of his other attributes.

 

[Shasha23]

Keyword: Swordsman.

If only Mihawk had fought Yonko Shanks though. If only Mihawk made Vista quack in his boots. If only Mihawk was stronger than BM (who uses Napoleon). If only being skilled with a sword makes you win by default though.

Because Shanks is a swordsman and a swordsman only... I laugh in Mihawk "hate" that anyone who is holding a sword will automatically lose against him. Its like, WB would lose against Mihawk if he was holding a sword, regardless of any of his other attributes.

Why doesnt Shanks fight WSS Mihawk though?
Why must Mihawk prove himself when he is already the stronger of the 2?
Did the admirals make Jozu and Marco quack their boots, did Big Mum or Kaido make Luffy quack his boots?
You know this for a fact that Big Mum is stronger than Mihawk?

Oda has already stated Shanks is a swordsman and a swordsman only, you saying otherwise proves your a lair and hater!
Yes Whitebeard fighting Mihawk with a sword will lose 100%, the same happens if Luffy tries to fight Zoro with a sword he will lose every time!

Can you explain why you hate the fact Oda made Mihawk stronger than Shanks, maybe it can help me understand your hate.

 

[jaymizzo]

Why doesnt Shanks fight WSS Mihawk though?
Why must Mihawk prove himself when he is already the stronger of the 2?
Did the admirals make Jozu and Marco quack their boots, did Big Mum or Kaido make Luffy quack his boots?
You know this for a fact that Big Mum is stronger than Mihawk?

Oda has already stated Shanks is a swordsman and a swordsman only, you saying otherwise proves your a lair and hater!
Yes Whitebeard fighting Mihawk with a sword will lose 100%, the same happens if Luffy tries to fight Zoro with a sword he will lose every time!

Can you explain why you hate the fact Oda made Mihawk stronger than Shanks, maybe it can help me understand your hate.

You forget Shanks challenged Mihawk and the latter refused because Shanks was handicapped.

The 4 Yonkou + The admirals are considered the strongest. Not them + WSS.

Yes, I know for a fact that BM is stronger than Mihawk based on her feats and backstory. You only have a title and subpar feats that we have to ignore because its pre timeskip.

Wait, where did Oda say Shanks is a swordsman and swordsman only? Please show this.

Yes, because WB doesn't have other abilities other than that of swinging a stick around. Because Luffy holding a sword stopped him from using gomu gomu techniques.

Can you also start posting these quotes by Oda? Not that Mihawk is a better swordsman, but that he is inherently stronger than Shanks?

 

[Shasha23]

You forget Shanks challenged Mihawk and the latter refused because Shanks was handicapped.

Oda has already stated Mihawk refuses because he sees Shanks as weaker than he used to be with only his 1 arm.

The 4 Yonkou + The admirals are considered the strongest. Not them + WSS.

What is your point with this statement?
Since the title of WSS already puts him on same playing field as WSM and WSC

Yes, I know for a fact that BM is stronger than Mihawk based on her feats and backstory. You only have a title and subpar feats that we have to ignore because its pre timeskip.

Show us these facts of yours so we can all be enlightened, yeah and Linlin's feats of being useless vs Brook, Nami, Chopper and Jinbe are soo amazing

Wait, where did Oda say Shanks is a swordsman and swordsman only? Please show this.

data books, vivre card and the manga

Yes, because WB doesn't have other abilities other than that of swinging a stick around. Because Luffy holding a sword stopped him from using gomu gomu techniques.

Wow i remember Luffy using Sandia Kitetsu and his feats using it were soo amazing that he stopped trying after 1 swing, lets not forget when he used 2 sword style vs Arlong and was quickly smacked aside

Can you also start posting these quotes by Oda? Not that Mihawk is a better swordsman, but that he is inherently stronger than Shanks?

Sure but since the burden of proof is with you, ill post them after you show me where you pick up this lies and hate from

 

[Fox666]

Its not about prefered translations, this is what his title is:
世界最強の剣士
Sekai saikyō no kenshi / Worlds Strongest Swordsman

You and the rest of the Mihawk haters are saying his title is this:

世界最大の剣士
Sekai saidai no kenshi; which is wrong and is showing everyone your hate for Mihawk and his strength

You are crazy, nobody is saying any of that, you are the only one talking about fake Japanese titles

最大 was supposed to be an English-to-Japanese translation of "greatest"? Because that literally means largest in size

Did you even read my post? I said in Japanese the word "strongest" doesn't necessarily means physical strength.

Example:

Spoiler

Tatsumaki from One Punch Man has the "strongest supernatural power" (最強の超能力者)

• Shanks is a swordsman and by default is weaker than Mihawk;

It was never said in the manga or databooks that Shanks only fights with a sword, or that Mihawk is stronger than Shanks.

It was, however, stated by Garp that the Yonko are the strongest pirates in the world.

You saying otherwise means:

1. You're a liar
2. You're a hater of Mihawk
3. You hate the fact Zoro will be > the yonko EOS

I have no idea why you included Zoro in the discussion

 

[Shasha23]

You are crazy, nobody is saying any of that, you are the only one talking about fake Japanese titles

So Oda wrinting it as strongest is me saying fake news...............LOL OK buddy

最大 was supposed to be an English-to-Japanese translation of "greatest"? Because that literally means largest in size

And yet VIZ and the Japanese spoken word for his title says strongest not greatest, more of your headcanon refusing to accept Oda's words i see

Did you even read my post? I said in Japanese the word "strongest" doesn't necessarily means physical strength.

Example:

Spoiler

Tatsumaki from One Punch Man has the "strongest supernatural power" (最強の超能力者)

Who in OPM has ever overpowered he using telekinetic powers?
Using this example is just showing your own ignorance of the facts!

It was never said in the manga or databooks that Shanks only fights with a sword, or that Mihawk is stronger than Shanks.

His bio on the vivrecard says he is and the manga has only shown him using swordsmanship and heavily implies Shanks took inspiration from Roger and Rayleigh to develop his fighting style

It was, however, stated by Garp that the Yonko are the strongest pirates in the world.

I have no idea why you included Zoro in the discussion

They are the strongest because of their military might, Law also implies this that the yonko havent been defeated because of their high military power and its not easy to even face 1, Mihawk is just 1 man who wields the ultimate power as he calls his strength

Your a typical hater and every Mihawk hater hates the fact that Zoro will surpass him and by default be stronger than yonkos, and everything your saying proves this!

 

[Luke Beifong]

In my opinion, being a Swordsman is more or less like a profession. Mihawk is the Strongest in the world doing only this. What doesn’t necessarily means he is the strongest man in the world because of this. His swordplay can be better than Shanks swordplays, but Mihawk is not necessarily stronger than Shanks because of this. Shanks can have a stronger Haki, can fight with bare hands, have a strong crew, all of this can cont to, only for exemples purpose.

 

[jaymizzo]

Oda has already stated Mihawk refuses because he sees Shanks as weaker than he used to be with only his 1 arm.

Nothing about being weaker was ever mentioned. I will find the panel of Mihawk and one armed Shanks. Im sure, you can find the quotes from Oda too.

What is your point with this statement?
Since the title of WSS already puts him on same playing field as WSM and WSC

What? They share one label, strongest. Worlds fastest eater and Worlds fastest runner are not the same title. They are about different things.

Your fixation on the title strongest is the only thing you have to actually justify where you place Mihawk. No feats, no actual battles, no hype, just strongest. Equating WB who was known as the strongest man period, with someone who is skilled only in swordplay is grasping at some non existent straws. Mihawk himself disagrees. I mean, If you are equal to someone, why try and measure the gap?

Show us these facts of yours so we can all be enlightened, yeah and Linlin's feats of being useless vs Brook, Nami, Chopper and Jinbe are soo amazing

Sure
One weakness

Spoiler: Iron balloon unless specific conditions are met

At age 5
After weakness is exposed
Just a scream

data books, vivre card and the manga

Can. You. Please. Post. These. Quotes.

Wow i remember Luffy using Sandia Kitetsu and his feats using it were soo amazing that he stopped trying after 1 swing, lets not forget when he used 2 sword style vs Arlong and was quickly smacked aside

Point flew over your head. Fighting strictly with swords, Mihawk would most likely win. Does that mean every fighter is limited to swords?

Put a Muay Thai fighter in a boxing ring, with boxing rules... They will lose. Put a Boxer in a ring with a Muay thai fighter with all rules allowed and the elbows and knees will put the boxer down.

McCregor lost to Mayweather in a boxing match with boxing rules, put Mayweather in an MMA ring and see how quickly he goes down.

To make it clearer, in a fight where its strictly swordplay, Mihawk would most likely win. Add other elements to it like abilities etc and its a different ball game.

Sure but since the burden of proof is with you, ill post them after you show me where you pick up this lies and hate from

You claimed "Oda stated that Mihawk is stronger than Shanks", "Mihawk didn't want to fight Shanks because he is weaker", why would I need to prove something I am not claiming? I claimed BM to be stronger and have more feats than Mihawk, I showed you the panels dictating what BM actually is. An Admiral contender at the age 5. I showed you that even getting past BMs weakness does not do much other than minor scratches.

You have yet to provide anything that you keep claiming Oda states. The only thing you fall back on is "you are a liar", "well the translation is blah blah blah".

 

[Shasha23]

In my opinion, being a Swordsman is more or less like a profession. Mihawk is the Strongest in the world doing only this. What doesn’t necessarily means he is the strongest man in the world because of this. His swordplay can be better than Shanks swordplays, but Mihawk is not necessarily stronger than Shanks because of this. Shanks can have a stronger Haki, can fight with bare hands, have a strong crew, all of this can cont to, only for exemples purpose.

Oda has confirmed Shanks a swordsman so that means he is weaker than Mihawk, why are you people refusing to accept this?
Even if Shanks has stronger haki, Mihawk will simply overpower him with his skill and strength, if they fight Mihawk wins 10 out of 10 times, there is a reason he is WSS and not Shanks or Fujitora!

 

[Luke Beifong]

Other exemple is Oden and Roger. Oden is a samurai, one of the strongests in world for sure, his swordplay is great! But Roger is much stronger than Oden, even having a sword to fight. In a sword fight I can see Oden defeating Roger for sure, Oden have much more technique than Roger, I assume at least, but Roger is simple stronger than Oden. But Roger is not only a swordsman, he is a pirate, he fight with a gun to, I’m sure he can fight with his bare hands to.