Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.
It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.
For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.
As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:
Shanks v Mihawk
Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
Zoro > Luffy
Zoro v Sanji
Is Smoker a top 30 character?
Mihawk's rank within the story
Law having CoC currently.
Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.
If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.
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Other exemple is Oden and Roger. Oden is a samurai, one of the strongests in world for sure, his swordplay is great! But Roger is much stronger than Oden, even having a sword to fight. In a sword fight I can see Oden defeating Roger for sure, Oden have much more technique than Roger, I assume at least, but Roger is simple stronger than Oden. But Roger is not only a swordsman, he is a pirate, he fight with a gun to, I’m sure he can fight with his bare hands to.
Strongest supernatural ability. Saitama's strength is supernatural because it defies logic. Can Tatsumaki beat him?
They are the strongest because of their military might, Law also implies this that the yonko havent been defeated because of their high military power and its not easy to even face 1, Mihawk is just 1 man who wields the ultimate power as he calls his strength
Your a typical hater and every Mihawk hater hates the fact that Zoro will surpass him and by default be stronger than yonkos, and everything your saying proves this!
Oda has confirmed Shanks a swordsman so that means he is weaker than Mihawk, why are you people refusing to accept this?
Even if Shanks has stronger haki, Mihawk will simply overpower him with his skill and strength, if they fight Mihawk wins 10 out of 10 times, there is a reason he is WSS and not Shanks or Fujitora!
Ok, I know Shanks is a swordsman, it’s not a problem assuming this. What I’m saying is that Shanks is not only a swordsman, he is more than only this. Fujitora is more than this to. They can fight by others means if it’s necessary. Mihawk is only the strongest swordsman. He is the best in the world doing only this. They have others ways to fight further their swords.
I’m doing a comparison between a great swordsman and a captain. You can change Oden for Mihawk and nothing will chance in my comparison. Come on @Shasha23, I read your comments all time and I know you are better in understanding and in interpretation than this. It’s the same thing I said about Mihawk and Shanks.
Ok, I know Shanks is a swordsman, it’s not a problem assuming this. What I’m saying is that Shanks is not only a swordsman, he is more than only this. Fujitora is more than this to. They can fight by others means if it’s necessary. Mihawk is only the strongest swordsman. He is the best in the world doing only this. They have others ways to fight further their swords.
WTF are you on about?
Worlds strongest Creature; Worlds strongest Man; Worlds Strongest Swordsman, you really cant see what is being implied here?
Your fixation on the title strongest is the only thing you have to actually justify where you place Mihawk. No feats, no actual battles, no hype, just strongest. Equating WB who was known as the strongest man period, with someone who is skilled only in swordplay is grasping at some non existent straws. Mihawk himself disagrees. I mean, If you are equal to someone, why try and measure the gap?
So i should just talk nonsense with no facts to back it up like you?
Mihawk has more feats in the story than Shanks, you do know this right, or is your hate blinding you on this too?
Newgate was strongest man, Kaido is strongest creature and Mihawk is strongest swordsman so unlike you i will never downplay this 3, their strength is above the rest until proven otherwise!
Mihawk never said that FFS, he said measure the difference between US and that MAN, how many times must you guys be told this, its like facts come through 1 ear and out the other with you
Yeah buddy lets all pretend you didnt say this "Its like, WB would lose against Mihawk if he was holding a sword "
Put a Muay Thai fighter in a boxing ring, with boxing rules... They will lose. Put a Boxer in a ring with a Muay thai fighter with all rules allowed and the elbows and knees will put the boxer down.
Yes and whats your point, dont think you can just say a bunch on nonsense to try and pretend you didnt say all that crap earlier
To make it clearer, in a fight where its strictly swordplay, Mihawk would most likely win. Add other elements to it like abilities etc and its a different ball game.
This is what i said 4 post back in response to your nonsense: Yes Whitebeard fighting Mihawk with a sword will lose 100%
You claimed "Oda stated that Mihawk is stronger than Shanks", "Mihawk didn't want to fight Shanks because he is weaker", why would I need to prove something I am not claiming? I claimed BM to be stronger and have more feats than Mihawk, I showed you the panels dictating what BM actually is. An Admiral contender at the age 5. I showed you that even getting past BMs weakness does not do much other than minor scratches.
You might have missed it but we all saw Shanks saying he wasnt feeling to well if Mihawk came for a fight, Mihawk then said he wont fight a 1 armed man, FYI by the way!
Big Mum was never an admiral contender at the age of 5 WOW, Caramel said she had the potential to be an admiral, do you even know the difference and meaning of those words?
You have yet to provide anything that you keep claiming Oda states. The only thing you fall back on is "you are a liar", "well the translation is blah blah blah".
Ok, I know Shanks is a swordsman, it’s not a problem assuming this. What I’m saying is that Shanks is not only a swordsman, he is more than only this. Fujitora is more than this to. They can fight by others means if it’s necessary. Mihawk is only the strongest swordsman. He is the best in the world doing only this. They have others ways to fight further their swords.
Oda has already said he is just a swordsman!
He only ever uses a sword, started using it since 28 years ago!
I’m doing a comparison between a great swordsman and a captain. You can change Oden for Mihawk and nothing will chance in my comparison. Come on @Shasha23, I read your comments all time and I know you are better in understanding and in interpretation than this. It’s the same thing I said about Mihawk and Shanks.
I mean logically speaking Shanks can't be stronger than Mihawk unless Shanks uses some kind of twisted fighting style that makes use of his legs and by that Shanks can't be classified as a swordsman...
Shanks ain't a DF user. There's literally no reason as of this moment to assume he has anything other than swordsmanship in his arsenal.
Haki doesn't count too since Mihawk got his blade black whereas Shanks' is as white as it gets. Shanks was shown wielding a blade ever since he was little.
I challenge you to provide me with an example of a fighting style that would fit Shanks that is not swordsmanship.
You could fantasize about the potential of Shanks being a fishman karate + rokushiki + kanokuni style + mink style master but that'd be very unreasonable.
And if you say Shanks' haki is so strong he could overpower Mihawk only with that... Then I have bad news for you... Swordsmen use haki too.
In fact it's like one of their greatest fortes.
Just recall how Hyogoro explained ryūoū to Luffy. He compared it to what swordsmen in Wano use.
I mean logically speaking Shanks can't be stronger than Mihawk unless Shanks uses some kind of twisted fighting style that makes use of his legs and by that Shanks can't be classified as a swordsman...
Shanks ain't a DF user. There's literally no reason as of this moment to assume he has anything other than swordsmanship in his arsenal.
Haki doesn't count too since Mihawk got his blade black whereas Shanks' is as white as it gets. Shanks was shown wielding a blade ever since he was little.
I challenge you to provide me with an example of a fighting style that would fit Shanks that is not swordsmanship.
You could fantasize about the potential of Shanks being a fishman karate + rokushiki + kanokuni style + mink style master but that'd be very unreasonable.
And if you say Shanks' haki is so strong he could overpower Mihawk only with that... Then I have bad news for you... Swordsmen use haki too.
In fact it's like one of their greatest fortes.
Just recall how Hyogoro explained ryūoū to Luffy. He compared it to what swordsmen in Wano use.
You have posted nothing but ramblings of Oda said this (without actually showing where he said this), calling people haters and throwing tantrums.
Im waiting for you to show us these quotes and where Mihawk refused to fight Shanks because he is weaker . You can do the belittling dance all you want.
Mihawk has more feats in the story than Shanks, you do know this right, or is your hate blinding you on this too?
Shanks arrives in Marineford, war stops. Mihawks presence in Marineford, no one bats an eye.
Newgate was strongest man, Kaido is strongest creature and Mihawk is strongest swordsman so unlike you i will never downplay this 3, their strength is above the rest until proven otherwise!
You equated the titles. Your boy Mihawk disagrees with you. If he was equal to WB simply because they possess a title with the same label "strongest" he would never have had to "measure the gap". Vista would have been fodder to him like Yonko commanders are fodder to Yonko.
Mihawk never said that FFS, he said measure the difference between US and that MAN, how many times must you guys be told this, its like facts come through 1 ear and out the other with you
Sure, ignore the fact that she has been a pirate for such a long time, is violent but has never recieved a single injury. Its been established that she is nigh invulnerable hence the Iron balloon tag and the need to go to extreme lengths to even have a chance to remotely harm her.
Yeah buddy lets all pretend you didnt say this "Its like, WB would lose against Mihawk if he was holding a sword "
Point that you missed being, WB has a DF that makes whatever weapon he is holding irrelevant. Mihawk being a better/stronger swordsman than WB means absolute jack.
Yes and whats your point, dont think you can just say a bunch on nonsense to try and pretend you didnt say all that crap earlier
This is what i said 4 post back in response to your nonsense: Yes Whitebeard fighting Mihawk with a sword will lose 100%
Damn, you actually refuse to read what someone says. In a match with strict rules, i.e. Swordplay only. No DF, no punches, just swords.
You might have missed it but we all saw Shanks saying he wasnt feeling to well if Mihawk came for a fight, Mihawk then said he wont fight a 1 armed man, FYI by the way!
Big Mum was never an admiral contender at the age of 5 WOW, Caramel said she had the potential to be an admiral, do you even know the difference and meaning of those words?
I mean logically speaking Shanks can't be stronger than Mihawk unless Shanks uses some kind of twisted fighting style that makes use of his legs and by that Shanks can't be classified as a swordsman...
Is Fujitora a swordman? Does BM qualify as one when she uses Napolean? Does Kizaru qualify as one when he utilises light swords? What qualifies one as a swordsman and what doesn't?
Also, The Admirals and the Yonkou are considered the strongest in the world. Its not The Admirals, Yonkou and some of the schibukai. Its pretty explicit that its only Yonkous and Admirals. Where Mihawk gets this hype from is actually mind-boggling when he has never been put anywhere near their level, by anyone in the manga.
I know that many people love Shanks and would love to think that he is stronger than Mihawk, but the truth is that Mihawk is the greatest swordsman of the world. His title puts him above shanks. Personally, I feel that they are on the same level. If the two fought to the death, Mihawk would probably win but it would be a very long fight and he would be on the brink of death.
This also makes sense since Zoros main goal in life is to surpass Mihawk. We all know that Zoro will always be slightly below Luffy in terms of strength which means that when Luffy becomes the Pirate King, Zoro will be right behind him. This shows us that Mihawk is almost as powerful as someone worthy of the Pirate King title unless Zoro beats Mihawk easily or if Luffy becomes much stronger than Zoro which is unlikely, but still plausible
I know that many people love Shanks and would love to think that he is stronger than Mihawk, but the truth is that Mihawk is the greatest swordsman of the world. His title puts him above shanks. Personally, I feel that they are on the same level. If the two fought to the death, Mihawk would probably win but it would be a very long fight and he would be on the brink of death.
This also makes sense since Zoros main goal in life is to surpass Mihawk. We all know that Zoro will always be slightly below Luffy in terms of strength which means that when Luffy becomes the Pirate King, Zoro will be right behind him. This shows us that Mihawk is almost as powerful as someone worthy of the Pirate King title unless Zoro beats Mihawk easily or if Luffy becomes much stronger than Zoro which is unlikely, but still plausible
agree, mihawk manages to make his sword into black sword permanently and we dont see shanks do that.
also prime rayleigh should be around yonko tier so EoS zoro should also be in similar tier
Is Fujitora a swordman? Does BM qualify as one when she uses Napolean? Does Kizaru qualify as one when he utilises light swords? What qualifies one as a swordsman and what doesn't?
Also, The Admirals and the Yonkou are considered the strongest in the world. Its not The Admirals, Yonkou and some of the schibukai. Its pretty explicit that its only Yonkous and Admirals. Where Mihawk gets this hype from is actually mind-boggling when he has never been put anywhere near their level, by anyone in the manga.
Fujitora is not just a swordsman. He's got his DF and just FYI we see him relying on his DF abilities more than his swordsmanship. Just saying.
BM is also not a pure swordsman. Napoleon is just an addition to her fighting style.
Kizaru is also obviously a Logia type DF user and not seen using a sword as his primary weapon other than that one time (which wasn't even an actual sword).
The above mentioned have ways of fighting other than swordsmanship.
Shanks on the other hand is a regular human being — no DF power, no genetic modifications, no kekkei genkai... Just his physical strength, his sword and his haki.
The hype is from the fact that like every second pirate/marine soldier in OP uses a sword. To be the greatest/strongest swordsman of them all in and of itself is quite worthy of us hyping Mihawk up.
Also, The Admirals and the Yonkou are considered the strongest in the world. Its not The Admirals, Yonkou and some of the schibukai. Its pretty explicit that its only Yonkous and Admirals.
Actually the three Great powers consist of the Marine Headquarters, Yonkou and the shichibukai. Even though the Yonkous are the most powerful Pirates of the world, the shichibukai are put into that same category. I don't agree with it but it is what it is.
There's are numerous indications that the Shichibukai are no match for the Yonko, and the Shichibukai strength is comparable to the commanders. This would includes Mihawk
I think the main mistake you're making here is thinking shichibukai is a power level when it actually is a group of pirates whose bounties become void in exchange for their service to the Government whenever called upon. Like, there's a chance that a random Yonkou could have become a shichibukai. We know Doflamingo likely isn't a Yonkou level because he doesn't like the idea of having Kaidou mad at him. However, there's no reason to believe Mihawk might not be on a Yonkou level, especially considering he seems to be a very rare pirate in sailing alone and had no problem fighting Shanks for the lulz.
EVen if he did say he wanted to measure the gap between him and Whitebeard
I think the main mistake you're making here is thinking shichibukai is a power level when it actually is a group of pirates whose bounties become void in exchange for their service to the Government whenever called upon. Like, there's a chance that a random Yonkou could have become a shichibukai. We know Doflamingo likely isn't a Yonkou level because he doesn't like the idea of having Kaidou mad at him. However, there's no reason to believe Mihawk might not be on a Yonkou level, especially considering he seems to be a very rare pirate in sailing alone and had no problem fighting Shanks for the lulz.
EVen if he did say he wanted to measure the gap between him and Whitebeard
Very true. He's the only person who sails the Grand line alone in a boat and yet no pirate or crew has taken him out. That itself speaks volumes of his power. He clearly is in a league of his own
Actually the three Great powers consist of the Marine Headquarters, Yonkou and the shichibukai. Even though the Yonkous are the most powerful Pirates of the world, the shichibukai are put into that same category. I don't agree with it but it is what it is.
Fujitora is not just a swordsman. He's got his DF and just FYI we see him relying on his DF abilities more than his swordsmanship. Just saying.
BM is also not a pure swordsman. Napoleon is just an addition to her fighting style.
Kizaru is also obviously a Logia type DF user and not seen using a sword as his primary weapon other than that one time (which wasn't even an actual sword).
The above mentioned have ways of fighting other than swordsmanship.
Shanks on the other hand is a regular human being — no DF power, no genetic modifications, no kekkei genkai... Just his physical strength, his sword and his haki.
The hype is from the fact that like every second pirate/marine soldier in OP uses a sword. To be the greatest/strongest swordsman of them all in and of itself is quite worthy of us hyping Mihawk up.
You haven't answered a simple question, what qualifies one as a swordsman? You simply described what I already know, they have other abilities that compliment their swordsmanship - which is what my whole point is.
Mihawk is the strongest swordsman, simply by the fact that he would win in a fight strictly based on sword fighting rules. It doesn't mean he could win against all other characters who, as pointed out use swords as weapons.
We have very little knowledge on how Shanks fights, he could use other techniques like roushuku(sp?) and he could use fishman Karate or a number of different fighting styles to compliment his swordsmanship. Thats my point. No one, not a single person has denied that in a fight with only swords as the rules, Mihawk would most likely win. Its stating he is inherently stronger that us the problem.
We have very little knowledge on how Shanks fights, he could use other techniques like roushuku(sp?) and he could use fishman Karate or a number of different fighting styles to compliment his swordsmanship. Thats my point. No one, not a single person has denied that in a fight with only swords as the rules, Mihawk would most likely win. Its stating he is inherently stronger that us the problem.
Are you seriously asking what defines a swordsman? Main weapon — sword. Fighting style based around mainly using a sword.
Zoro could go 0 sword style but that doesn't change the fact he's still a swordsman, who prefers and is stronger using swords. Whereas Kizaru can't be as successful of a fighter only relying on that light sword thing of his.
Literally nothing so far alluded to Shanks knowing anything other than swordsmanship.
All of these: he might know fishman karate is nonsensical or wishful thinking at best.
He might be an alien with telekinesis as far as assumptions go. But man that's crazy unlikely.
I am not sure about this. The sword is certainly unusual but Kizaru fought his hardest battle as nothing else than swordsman and he really tried.
He was so pissed that Rayleigh stopped him that he went mad later and captured 500 pirates just to let off steam.
Are you seriously asking what defines a swordsman? Main weapon — sword. Fighting style based around mainly using a sword.
Zoro could go 0 sword style but that doesn't change the fact he's still a swordsman, who prefers and is stronger using swords. Whereas Kizaru can't be as successful of a fighter only relying on that light sword thing of his.
Literally nothing so far alluded to Shanks knowing anything other than swordsmanship.
All of these: he might know fishman karate is nonsensical or wishful thinking at best.
He might be an alien with telekinesis as far as assumptions go. But man that's crazy unlikely.
You are contradicting yourself heavily. Main weapon sword right? Fujitora - Sword. Law - Sword. Cracker - Sword. BM (when serious) - Sword. All these people rely on swords to either channel their abilities or compliment their DF.
But then you say that Zoro using fists is still a swordsman. But someone using a DF but also has a sword is not.
This I agree with. The only distinction I would make is that some characters are simply better at swordsmanship because of dedicating their whole life to that craft.
Would it be fair to say that Mihawk only challenges swordsman who have no complimentary ability?
You are contradicting yourself heavily. Main weapon sword right? Fujitora - Sword. Law - Sword. Cracker - Sword. BM (when serious) - Sword. All these people rely on swords to either channel their abilities or compliment their DF.
But then you say that Zoro using fists is still a swordsman. But someone using a DF but also has a sword is not.
You either misunderstood or misinterpreted what I said. Probably my bad, I didn't make it clear enough.
I was implying that Zoro is far weaker swordless.
Whereas BM, Fujitora, Law, BM could probably swap their respective weapons with something other than a sword and still be capable of pulling the same feats.
Law's ability comes from the DF not the sword. Same for Fujitora. BM could use a different homie instead of Napoleon and still be as dangerous. Say a club, like the one Kaido has. Or an axe, or a bisento.
Unlike Zoro who CAN fight without swords but won't be as powerful as he is WITH swords.
what a stupid comparison
. You can do the belittling dance all you want.
