One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[nik87]

Would it be fair to say that Mihawk only challenges swordsman who have no complimentary ability?

I dont think that manga ever pointed such thing out.

 

[Luke Beifong]

Just to know your opinion, when Mihawk said to Luffy that the path to become PK is toughter than becoming WSS, what you guys think Mihawk was implying?

I my opinion he’s saying that Luffy may fight with guys stronger than Mihawk himself. And who’s Luffy opponents now? The Yonko. If you say to me that Mihawk can win a fight with Shanks, whatever is Shanks fighting style besides swords, for me you are saying Mihawk can win against BM and Kaido to, because it’s implied that they have more or less the same power level.

 

[Fox666]

Literally nothing so far alluded to Shanks knowing anything other than swordsmanship.

Nothing alluded Whitebeard style being anything but swinging his bisento... until he had a fight that lasted more than 2 panels

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Nothing alluded Whitebeard style being anything but swinging his bisento... until he had a fight that lasted more than 2 panels

And? What's your point?

We know for certain that Shanks isn't a DF eater, unlike WB.

What source of power do you see Shanks potentially relying on?

A). He is a swordsman
B). Doesn't have a DF
C). Only has one arm

Unless you really think Shanks will go Sanji style I don't see a plausible and believable fighting style for Shanks other than pure swordsmanship.

 

[Fox666]

According to Garp, the Yonko are the strongest pirates in the world. If Shanks is behind Mihawk in swordmanship, shouldn't he be capable of something else?

It doesn't has to be a Devil Fruit. Most of the Strawhats aren't even Devil Fruit users. There are many styles that are not Devil Fruit abilities, like Rokushiki, Fishman Karate, making a ramen armor with your nostrils... why Shanks can only be a sword or a Devil Fruit?

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 4, 2020, Original Post Date: Feb 4, 2020 ---

I think the main mistake you're making here is thinking shichibukai is a power level when it actually is a group of pirates whose bounties become void in exchange for their service to the Government whenever called upon. Like, there's a chance that a random Yonkou could have become a shichibukai. We know Doflamingo likely isn't a Yonkou level because he doesn't like the idea of having Kaidou mad at him. However, there's no reason to believe Mihawk might not be on a Yonkou level, especially considering he seems to be a very rare pirate in sailing alone and had no problem fighting Shanks for the lulz.

EVen if he did say he wanted to measure the gap between him and Whitebeard

I'm not saying Shichibukai is a power level. But collectively they seem to be referred as inferior to the Yonko or Marine Admirals.

That doesn't mean one of them couldn't be super strong. That may be the case with Weevil.

According to Kizaru, Weevil strength is like Whitebeard's in his youth... but we don't know what "youth" is it. Big Mom was already a monster when she was barely a teenager (with almost the same bounty), but she must be many times stronger now.

Also Weevil only joined the Shichibukai recently, and is still making a name for himself. But wouldn't it be strange if Mihawk, who is super famous, to be ignored whenever the strongest in the world are mentioned?

 

[nik87]

Just to know your opinion, when Mihawk said to Luffy that the path to become PK is toughter than becoming WSS, what you guys think Mihawk was implying?

I my opinion he’s saying that Luffy may fight with guys stronger than Mihawk himself. And who’s Luffy opponents now? The Yonko. If you say to me that Mihawk can win a fight with Shanks, whatever is Shanks fighting style besides swords, for me you are saying Mihawk can win against BM and Kaido to, because it’s implied that they have more or less the same power level.

I dont think he meant the fighting part. You can be 100 times stronger than the 2nd strongest and yet, if you dont have Robin to decypher the Road Poneglyphs for you, you cannot become PK. If you dont have Nami to sail you there, it is the same.
The path if tougher because it requires a lot more than just being strong.

Well, can Mihawk win against Shanks/BM/Kaido? Based on the latest chapter, do you think Oden could win? There is no reason why Mihawk cannot beat those individuals when there are things he has above Oden. Sword slashes are lethal to anyone, whether they are Yonko or not, it is quite impressive that Kaido was combat-capable after getting slashed.

 

[Fox666]

Sword slashes are lethal to anyone, whether they are Yonko or not, it is quite impressive that Kaido was combat-capable after getting slashed.

In One Piece world they aren't so lethal. At least not if the plot demands... :x

 

[jaymizzo]

And? What's your point?

We know for certain that Shanks isn't a DF eater, unlike WB.

You literally bolded his/her point and ask him/her what their point is?

You don't know for certain what Shanks fighting style is other than he carries a sword and has dueled Mihawk.

Like, everyone knew Law was a DF user from the moment he was introduced right? You were certain that Law, Fujitora etc are DF users while their primary weapon is a sword... Or that Cracker was a swordsman (or was hiding his real body)?

Do you know for certain that every Marine fodder who carries a sword is not a DF user or has different fighting styles? No. There is no certainty there just assumptions on both our parts.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 4, 2020, Original Post Date: Feb 4, 2020 ---

You either misunderstood or misinterpreted what I said. Probably my bad, I didn't make it clear enough.

I was implying that Zoro is far weaker swordless.

Whereas BM, Fujitora, Law, BM could probably swap their respective weapons with something other than a sword and still be capable of pulling the same feats.

Law's ability comes from the DF not the sword. Same for Fujitora. BM could use a different homie instead of Napoleon and still be as dangerous. Say a club, like the one Kaido has. Or an axe, or a bisento.

Unlike Zoro who CAN fight without swords but won't be as powerful as he is WITH swords.

See what I'm saying?

Still a very problematic description. Law primarily uses his sword to cut things and channel his power. Fujitora even with his DF uses his sword more often than not.

Again, what qualifies one as a swordsman and what doesn't? Is it someone who carries a sword and uses it as a weapon? A person who dedicates their entire fighting style to using swords? You can't say Law etc would not be disadvantaged in the same way Zoro would be just because the latter has no other complimentary ability.

When he only uses two swords, its a nerf. When someone else who primarily uses a sword relies on another ability, then its okay?

Pick one qualifier and stick to it.

E.g. Luffy is not a swordsman because he primarily brawls. But train him with swords and he would have a bigger advantage than not using swords.

Is a swordsman someone who is usesless without a sword?

 

[Deleted member 169696]

You literally bolded his/her point and ask him/her what their point is?

You don't know for certain what Shanks fighting style is other than he carries a sword and has dueled Mihawk.

Like, everyone knew Law was a DF user from the moment he was introduced right? You were certain that Law, Fujitora etc are DF users while their primary weapon is a sword... Or that Cracker was a swordsman (or was hiding his real body)?

Do you know for certain that every Marine fodder who carries a sword is not a DF user or has different fighting styles? No. There is no certainty there just assumptions on both our parts.

Yes I ask that because we could speculate on WB. At that time we couldn't know for certain if he hadn't a DF ability.

As for Shanks we DO know that he doesn't have a DF power.

It's a very limited spectrum of potential powers that Shanks can be later revealed to possess.

As I've said earlier, it's either fishman karate, mink style, kanokuni style or rokushiki.

None of these even make sense for Shanks apart from maybe a few rokushiki moves that are nothing special in the world of OP.

Is a swordsman someone who is usesless without a sword?

Not useless per se but far less capable without them.

It's like taking away someone's DF power.

What BM will suffer from more? Her losing Napoleon or the soul soul no mi? I think it's the latter one.

Take WB for example. He didn't need the bisento to smash Akainu, did he?

It's a bit more advantageous for the likes of BM and WB to have a weapon but not to the same extent as it is for "pure" swordsmen.

 

[Fox666]

Is a swordsman someone who is usesless without a sword?

Not useless, but they are put at great disadvantage without their main weapon

It's kinda like Zeff when he lost his leg...

 

[XXGenesis]

Oh the nuanced and nuisances of the OP forum.

Mihawk is not stronger than Shanks.
It's clear Mihawk has some very dedicated fans who are arguing his title as the Worlds Strongest Swordsmen; Means he can be equal to or greater than a Yonkou.

However his title does not equal to that of a Pirate Emperor or make it greater. Shanks being Mihawks dueling partner and Mihawk losing interest in dueling after he lost his arm is ambigious in nature.

Still yet Shanks is an emperor even after losing his arm, he's comparable to the other Yonkou & Admirals.

Also note One Piece has 3 fighter classes.
Martial artist H2H
Weapons
DF user

Many characters use a combination of the 3.
Ex. WB & BM use all 3 well rounded fighters, are they swordsmen yes, however not primarily swordsman.

Doffy used guns, H2H & DF powers. But is Doffy a better marksman or sniper than Usopp.. No.

Point being made no high tier character that uses a sword has to have better swordsmanship than Mihawk to be stronger than him or defeat him

 

[gunsmoke69]

Who are quoted as the strongest? The Yonko and Admirals or the Yonko, Admirals and Schibukai?

Chapter 432. Garp tells Luffy that the Marine Headquarters and shichibukai exist to counterbalance the Yonkous and that should these three Great powers become unbalanced, the peace of the world would crumble.

 

[nik87]

Mihawk is not stronger than Shanks.

How do you come to the conclusion that the strongest swordsman is weaker than swordsman who isn't the strongest swordsman?

Martial artist H2H
Weapons
DF user

Shanks is a swordsman, he doesn't fight barehanded or with a DF.

 

[kcd]

When Mihawk sought out Yonko Shanks, Shanks asked him if he came to fight. It was such a casual question. What surprised me after rereading that panel was what Mihawk replied in return.
Mihawk said, "As if I'd settle things with an one armed man."

Now this question might sound funny but what does Mihawk mean here by "settling things?" What could Mihawk have wanted to settle with Shanks if his two arms were complete?
The point here is that it was Mihawk who had things to settle with Shanks, not the other way around. This is more than enough evidence that Mihawk was never greater than Shanks even back before Shanks became a Yonko... because Mihawk's the one who still had things to settle with Shanks even after dueling him several times. So how the hell was he stronger? Lol.

Indeed, Shanks did lose a part of his swordsmanship when he lost an arm. And that's because he won't be capable of using techniques he would've otherwise been capable of using if his arms were complete; but that doesn't 'definitely' mean Mihawk is all of a sudden nowstronger than him. That's just ridiculous.

In swordmanship, yes, Mihawk is better since Shanks isn't complete anymore; but in all round strength and ability to wreck the other? Nope! The Yonkos are the strongest pirates. Mihawk is below the Yonkos since he's a pirate himself. It's as simple as ABC.

Moreover, Mihawk's the one chickening out of a fight with Yonko-Shanks all because of a lame excuse, so?

Just for laughs:

"Yo, Shanks! You've got one arm now, so I guess I'm no longer interested in settling things with you."

"Sure, bud, whatever." Shanks literarily laughed while Mihawk went ahead and started talking about Luffy. This was just how it played out in the first encounter they had in the series, pre time skip.

 

[gunsmoke69]

Now this question might sound funny but what does Mihawk mean here by "settling things?" What could Mihawk have wanted to settle with Shanks if his two arms were complete?
The point here is that it was Mihawk who had things to settle with Shanks, not the other way around. This is more than enough evidence that Mihawk was never greater than Shanks even back before Shanks became a Yonko... because Mihawk's the one who still had things to settle with Shanks even after dueling him several times. So how the hell was he stronger? Lol.

Interesting point. However, there is a reason why Oda always mentions Mihawk as the World's strongest swordsman every time Mihawk is shown and not Shanks. If Shanks was stronger, he would be the world's strongest swordsman. I think Mihawk wanted to settle things because he's a very honourable man who is practically equal to Shanks and still hasn't got a clear victory with him yet.

However, you got to admit that there is a reason why Mihawk has that title and not Shanks. He's also the only one we know of other than Ryuuma who has awakened his sword and Ryuuma was considered the sword king.
Roger had the most advanced form of haki coming out of his sword yet there was no indication of his sword being awakened. I'm not saying that Mihawk is stronger than Roger but there is something amazing about awakening your sword. It would be foolish to say that someone who wields a sword (like shanks) is stronger than Mihawk when he currently holds the title of the Worlds strongest swordsman. At best we can say that they are equals. Believe me I am a Shank's fan and definitely not a Mihawk's fan but I am speaking based solely on the facts.

 

[kcd]

Interesting point. However, there is a reason why Oda always mentions Mihawk as the World's strongest swordsman every time Mihawk is shown and not Shanks. If Shanks was stronger, he would be the world's strongest swordsman. I think Mihawk wanted to settle things because he's a very honourable man who is practically equal to Shanks and still hasn't got a clear victory with him yet.

However, you got to admit that there is a reason why Mihawk has that title and not Shanks. He's also the only one we know of other than Ryuuma who has awakened his sword and Ryuuma was considered the sword king.
Roger had the most advanced form of haki coming out of his sword yet there was no indication of his sword being awakened. I'm not saying that Mihawk is stronger than Roger but there is something amazing about awakening your sword. It would be foolish to say that someone who wields a sword (like shanks) is stronger than Mihawk when he currently holds the title of the Worlds strongest swordsman. At best we can say that they are equals. Believe me I am a Shank's fan and definitely not a Mihawk's fan but I am speaking based solely on the facts.

You made some good points too, and I can see you're someone that can be reasoned with.

My main point is that the Yonkos are the strongest pirates. It's as simple as that. The word "strongest pirates" is all encompassing. As long as you're a pirate, you aren't stronger than them, else the Yonkos wouldn't be called the strongest pirates in the first place. It's like being told Kaido is the strongest creature, but then we now say there's another creature stronger than him?

Yea about the black blade part, we don't know how they're made. For example, we know that Enma will suck all the haki out of a person and claim it as it's own if the wielder is not capable of collecting his haki back.
If Zoro hadn't collected his haki back from Enma, Enma would've completely stolen it from him and become a step close to becoming a black blade. It's quite extraordinary what it can do compared to other swords. My point here is that we don't know how Mihawk made his sword black.

A quick question. Was the 'Yoru' also sucking and stealing Mihawk's haki like Enma is doing? We don't know for now, but we'll see in the future how Mihawk got his sword black if Oda remembers to tell us.

What we do know for sure is that black blades are forged through history of battles. Mihawk actively sought out opponents from around the world while Shanks relaxed and partied. So of course Mihawk's sword would definitely have more battle history compared to shanks', and Rodger's, and Bigmom's, and Fujitaro's sword e.t.c., So it's quite understandable how his sword became black. As I said, the sword that is closest to becoming a black blade right now is Enma, of which many people in this forum have called a magic sword, understandably so since it can literarily drain one of haki; we'll just have to wait and see how Mihawk did it. But that doesn't mean he's now all of a sudden stronger than the Yonkos who are said to be the strongest.

 

[nik87]

My main point is that the Yonkos are the strongest pirates. It's as simple as that. The word "strongest pirates" is all encompassing.

Well, not that simple. The term used in raws is similar to the term used to describe politicians.
So, maybe it is not the strongest but most powerful as in most influential, commanding the biggest force, etc...

Regarding what Mihawk wanted to settle... When something needs to be settled, it means it isnt clearly decided. Mihawk's response definitely has placed Shanks lower on the power scale than Mihawk. Everything points out to Mihawk being stronger than Shanks.

 

[kkck]

I am a bit of the idea that perhaps it is shanks that doesn't rank too highly among yonko. And rather than immense innate strength his position in the world derives from having a crew with strong bounties across the board and overall his commanders are all above the average yonko commander.

 

[M3J]

Just to know your opinion, when Mihawk said to Luffy that the path to become PK is toughter than becoming WSS, what you guys think Mihawk was implying?

I my opinion he’s saying that Luffy may fight with guys stronger than Mihawk himself. And who’s Luffy opponents now? The Yonko. If you say to me that Mihawk can win a fight with Shanks, whatever is Shanks fighting style besides swords, for me you are saying Mihawk can win against BM and Kaido to, because it’s implied that they have more or less the same power level.

Pirates have more enemies and rivals that will challenge them, while becoming the greatest swordsman is basically fighting other swordsmen. Kaidou won't challenge Zoro to be the world's greatest swordsman, but he will challenge Luffy for the title of Pirate King, while the Marines will try to stop them both. However, it wouldn't mean that a Marine or someone in Kaidou's crew wouldn't try to be the world's greatest swordsman, but the competition is narrower methinks.

I'm not saying Shichibukai is a power level. But collectively they seem to be referred as inferior to the Yonko or Marine Admirals.

That doesn't mean one of them couldn't be super strong. That may be the case with Weevil.

According to Kizaru, Weevil strength is like Whitebeard's in his youth... but we don't know what "youth" is it. Big Mom was already a monster when she was barely a teenager (with almost the same bounty), but she must be many times stronger now.

Also Weevil only joined the Shichibukai recently, and is still making a name for himself. But wouldn't it be strange if Mihawk, who is super famous, to be ignored whenever the strongest in the world are mentioned?

Likely because they haven't carved out huge territories or have huge crews or met the criteria. So far, Mihawk hasn't shown to be inferior, but he's also not mentioned in the same plane as the Yonkou and admirals.

Not really, if Mihawk's been quiet while Weevil's been raising ruckus.

 

[XXGenesis]

How do you come to the conclusion that the strongest swordsman is weaker than swordsman who isn't the strongest swordsman?

The strongest swordsman is a Pirate. & it's common knowledge of the manga that the Yonkou are the 4 strongest Pirates.

The relationship between 1 of these Yonkou & The pirate Warlord who holds the title strongest swordsman isn't suprsing. One still holds superiority over the other.

Shanks is a swordsman, he doesn't fight barehanded or with a DF.

Shanks has NEVER been shown fighting. Besides clashing blades with WB.

That's very ignorant to say he doesnt use H2B combat. Of course Shanks a Yonkou uses H2H combat and is strong asf just like the rest of the top tier characters.