Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.
It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.
For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.
As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:
Shanks v Mihawk
Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
Zoro > Luffy
Zoro v Sanji
Is Smoker a top 30 character?
Mihawk's rank within the story
Law having CoC currently.
Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.
If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.
This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.
Rayleigh had his hands full, but he certainly wasn't doing that bad. The implications of his assessment were that, if he were younger, he'd be able to take care of Kizaru and the Pacifista.
Rayleigh had his hands full, but he certainly wasn't doing that bad. The implications of his assessment were that, if he were younger, he'd be able to take care of Kizaru and the Pacifista.
Beyond that. Garp himself ordered the marine giving the report not to tell Sengoku that Rayliegh was spotted because it would be too much for the Marines to fight 2 legends (Whitebeard and Rayliegh) at once...
Why is there only one Luffy but two Zoros and Sanjis?
Don't be a Hannibal Psych, OP arcs don't always follow a certain structure. Mihawk doesn't have to be an antagonist for Zoro to fight him, but he is as long as he's the WSS as he's the main obstacle to Zoro's dream.
Please refrain from comparing me to someone that is banned on this forum for a reason. I don't mean to hurt anyone...
It's centered around Luffy, but other members get attention too. Vivi got plenty of attention in Alabasta, Robin had an arc focused on her, we learned more about Nami, Zoro got destroyed by Mihawk, etc etc.
Yeah but Marco just can't be hurt. Him "keeping up" doesn't really place him much closer to the Admirals at all. However all his fruit has to offer for attacks are bird claws.
The Admirals are forces of nature.
Who thought that? Different YC have different levels of strengths and advantages. Katakuri could be weaker than Queen and still fare better against Big Mom just because of Future Sight.
Anyways, who here would be interest in making a complete powerlevels tierlist, featuring all the hundreds of characters of One Piece?
My idea is that it can be done step by step, by going from arc to arc.
Like you start with the characters of Romance Dawn arc, then add the characters of Orange Town arc, then Syrup village, and so on.
However there are a lot of characters, so to make it easier, I would compile them, also listing any different version of them such as different timeliness and power-ups.
I have already done this the first few arcs and would publish a step by step guide once I am finished with East Blue Saga, and then we could all progress together from there. However I would only do so if people are actually interested, otherwise I would just present my results once I am finished with everything.
I would then start a separate thread for the lists, but would suggest that this thread still is used to discuss differences between each other's lists.
What I hope to achieve by having everyone make his own tierlist are lost of interesting and unique discussions, also touching some of the earlier and smaller arcs more
Beyond that. Garp himself ordered the marine giving the report not to tell Sengoku that Rayliegh was spotted because it would be too much for the Marines to fight 2 legends (Whitebeard and Rayliegh) at once...
Beyond that. Even after it was confirmed but an Navy Admiral and after Garp and Sengoku's retirement, no one dare to after him. Not even Sakazuki with his hot temper.
The man hadn't use his sword in 20y
Had use CoC twice, on the same day, which if I'm not mistaking said was exhausting
(Probably wasn't sobber)
Wasn't focus on the fight and didn't want to defeat Kizaru but help his protégé
Kizaru moves at speed light, having a second from him would be hard for anyone and that's what was concerning Rayleigh since the SH were having a hard time with Kuma
Yet, in the end, Kizaru didn't manage to kill, arrest or damage him...
How is he not an antagonist? He's an adversary to Zoro because he's the strongest swordsman. The only way Mihawk ceases to be an antagonist at this point is if someone stronger beats him, as the strongest swordsman will always be an antagonist until Zoro wins the title. It is related to power levels in a way as Mihawk's power is what keeps him in the Straw Hats' path, even if it's just one member's.
Yeah but Marco just can't be hurt. Him "keeping up" doesn't really place him much closer to the Admirals at all. However all his fruit has to offer for attacks are bird claws.
Like I said, Marco would most likely lose to the admirals as he hasn't shown anything to take them down. I don't think we disagree there, but I see no reason to believe he was doing badly until he got distracted. If he can't be hurt, then it's hard to tell who'd win.
In any case though, didn't you say or agree that the rules before the timeskip are not valid since Oda changed a lot? If we take post-timeskip into consideration, then the admirals should theoretically do much better as they can mix haki with their attacks.
I am not using his logic and I am certainly not duped by him to do anything.
I honestly don't want this comparison to stick, so please refrain from using it from now on. I am not insulting anyone and try to keep up a friendly tone. Things like that can ruin someone's reputation, especially because not everyone here reads all posts, and you have a purple name. People might assume I was rude or insulting, which I haven't been.
Please delete it from your posts.
How is he not an antagonist? He's an adversary to Zoro because he's the strongest swordsman. The only way Mihawk ceases to be an antagonist at this point is if someone stronger beats him, as the strongest swordsman will always be an antagonist until Zoro wins the title. It is related to power levels in a way as Mihawk's power is what keeps him in the Straw Hats' path, even if it's just one member's.
The thing is, Zoro has put his own goal behind Luffy's. If Luffy does not cross Mihawk's path in a way that makes him and Zoro have their match, then it won't happen. We are nearing the end of the Manga, and the dynamic that Levely opened up will likely lead to a global war involving the remaining players. Mihawk is no longer affiliated with the World Government, he no longer has any reason to be in the Strawhats way.
That's why I said that I think it is likely that he loses to Shiliew. He has to leave Kusaigana, and will likely head towards the New World, because that is where the plot is. Mihawk, aside from Zoro, only has two characters that he is linked with, which are Perona and Shanks. Perona is heading for Blackbeard, and Shanks seems to be about stopping Blackbeard as well, at least that is what his dialogue with the Gorosei likely implies.
In any case though, didn't you say or agree that the rules before the timeskip are not valid since Oda changed a lot? If we take post-timeskip into consideration, then the admirals should theoretically do much better as they can mix haki with their attacks.
No, I think the rules are the same from East Blue till Wano.
I already assume Haki is used on most attacks during Marineford, anything else makes no sense given the stakes of the war and the people that fought in it.
I am not using his logic and I am certainly not duped by him to do anything.
I honestly don't want this comparison to stick, so please refrain from using it from now on. I am not insulting anyone and try to keep up a friendly tone. Things like that can ruin someone's reputation, especially because not everyone here reads all posts, and you have a purple name. People might assume I was rude or insulting, which I haven't been.
Please delete it from your posts.
The thing is, Zoro has put his own goal behind Luffy's. If Luffy does not cross Mihawk's path in a way that makes him and Zoro have their match, then it won't happen. We are nearing the end of the Manga, and the dynamic that Levely opened up will likely lead to a global war involving the remaining players. Mihawk is no longer affiliated with the World Government, he no longer has any reason to be in the Strawhats way.
That's why I said that I think it is likely that he loses to Shiliew. He has to leave Kusaigana, and will likely head towards the New World, because that is where the plot is. Mihawk, aside from Zoro, only has two characters that he is linked with, which are Perona and Shanks. Perona is heading for Blackbeard, and Shanks seems to be about stopping Blackbeard as well, at least that is what his dialogue with the Gorosei likely implies.
No, I think the rules are the same from East Blue till Wano.
I already assume Haki is used on most attacks during Marineford, anything else makes no sense given the stakes of the war and the people that fought in it.
You kind of were, and he's the only one I know that used the whole "consistency/structure in OP" logic. But I'm saying I feel he has another account (the ones that have bashed others, and I don't think you've attacked others), dupe being short for duplicate. I don't understand how agreeing with someone on something ruins your reputation, though, unless you're agreeing with nik87 or Moe.
Zoro did, but his dream is still to be the world's strongest swordsman, and Luffy wants Zoro to become WSS as well. Zoro will cross the path of whoever holds that title, whether with the crew or alone. Mihawk will probably still be in the Straw Hats' way, but as someone who is interested in their potential, but either way, Zoro doesn't care, he only cares about beating the best. Otherwise I can also see Zoro and Mihawk never fighting if someone else beats Mihawk, unless Mihawk finds a way to be an obstacle towards the crew.
I dunno, as haki users back then didn't show blackening whereas now, that's common. If Marco does appear to fight in Wano, which I doubt, then we'll see just what he was capable of. At least we can agree that he didn't show offensive abilities that could push an admiral?
"I'm not guessing, I know what will happen in the future. This manga has a defined structured. You're literally too stupid to argue with."
"My predictions are always correct. It's a perfect science. You are an entirely new bread of stupid. People should study you."
"You can see clear patterns in the story. It's obvious what will happen next. Try forming a complete sentence without spelling something wrong or failing at basic punctuation."
You get the point.
He was just saying that Mihawk is not going to be the a villain. Zoro and Mihawk don't hate each other or anything. In fact Mihawk hopes Zoro will become strong enough to fight him. It's like a sport.
Anyways, who here would be interest in making a complete powerlevels tierlist, featuring all the hundreds of characters of One Piece?
My idea is that it can be done step by step, by going from arc to arc.
Like you start with the characters of Romance Dawn arc, then add the characters of Orange Town arc, then Syrup village, and so on.
However there are a lot of characters, so to make it easier, I would compile them, also listing any different version of them such as different timeliness and power-ups.
I have already done this the first few arcs and would publish a step by step guide once I am finished with East Blue Saga, and then we could all progress together from there. However I would only do so if people are actually interested, otherwise I would just present my results once I am finished with everything.
I would then start a separate thread for the lists, but would suggest that this thread still is used to discuss differences between each other's lists.
What I hope to achieve by having everyone make his own tierlist are lost of interesting and unique discussions, also touching some of the earlier and smaller arcs more
So I started one a long time ago, it's a work in progress obviously. I have changed it multiple times, adding on input from this forum, that's a reason why I'm on this discussion post. If anyone has another "One Piece Power Ranking" discussion forum in another website, if you were to be kind enough to post the link, but so far that i've seen, this one is the most up to date and close to the actual power levels.
The list I've created has from the start of OP, East Blue to current Wano. It includes characters who had skirmishes and removes the grunts or no-name characters or those that were not important enough to be on it. For example, I don't include Johnny and Yosaku from Arlong Park or even Captain Nezumi, etc. There's no point in gouging their strength. It goes Arc by Arc, to include the nicknames/epithets of each character. I based it on off numbers in the millions and early billions. Just like the Bounty system in the OP World. I got the idea from an old DBZ power level list I've seen before.
OBVIOUSLY, it is not correct/actual, it is MY OWN interpretation and seriously as you all know it is DIFFICULT to gauge someones strength, especially by putting a number on it, but I prefer a number system rather than a Class system (S, A, B, C, D). For example, one character (A) can be stronger than character (B) but a different character (C) can defeat A but lose to B. Does that mean C>A>B? but B>C>A>B is also a factor. We all know this. So yes, my POWER LIST is not accurate, it is what I believe is to be accurate.
I also have refrain from ranking individuals who we have barely seen any feats from and I don't necessarily care for the title they have or where they stand in the OP World AND how they're going to play at the End of Series. Seriously I think EOS characters are pointless right now. For all we know, a new unknown villain can pop off at the end and be the strongest (like Naruto with Kaguya). So those I dont rank would be: Dragon, Im, the 5 Elders, RH Pirates YC (Ben, Yassop, etc) BB Pirates Commanders... People like to think Im is an EOS villain who is the strongest. That could be a possibility but I dont think of it in the current timeline, until they show more of Im. Dragon can be strong but we have yet to seen any concrete proof his power.
I can post my list, but I don't think I'll be ready for all the constructive criticism I will receive from you all. AND that is fine, we all have our opinions so NOBODY is right or wrong. Someone may think Zolo is the strongest and will defeat Kaido, while another may think Sanji>>>>Zolo and will defeat King (im looking at two certain individuals, not naming names though). My opinion is Luffy>Zolo>Sanji, no matter what, I think ODA has decided on that since the start.
But I will post a preview and see how you all react to it.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Alright so here is a preview from East Blue to Alabasta...have at it
*** So a few individuals are shown but not at full power, remember this is very early on in the series so in Crocodile's case, he was weak in Alabasta but somehow powerful in MF. I think because ODA didnt plan out that far ahead when he began writing.
East Blue
Monkey D. Luffy: 300,000,000 Iron Mace Alvida: 190,000,000
Captain Axe Hand Morgan: 210,000,000
Roronoa Zolo: 275,000,000
Coby: 150,000,000
Mohji the Beast Tamer: 200,000,000
Cabaji the Acrobat: 205,000,000
Buggy the Clown: 245,000,000
One-Two Django: 215,000,000
Nyaban Brothers: 212,000,000
Kuro of the Thousand Plans: 225,000,000
Usopp: 205,000,000
Man-Demon Gin: 218,000,000
Sanji: 250,000,000
Pearl the Iron Wall: 213,000,000
Lt. Ironfist Fullbody: 210,000,000
Don Krieg of the Pirate Armada: 250,000,000
Dracule Hawk Eyes Mihawk: 600,000,000 (NOT FULL POWER)
Ensign Tashigi: 222,000,000 Iron Mace Alvida: 210,000,000
Buggy the Clown: 245,000,000
Captain Smoker the White Hunter: 380,000,000
Alabasta
Miss Wednesday: 190,000,000 Straw Hat Luffy: 330,000,000
Zolo: 320,000,000
Miss Monday: 217,000,000
Mr. 8: 218,000,000
Mr. 9: 209,000,000
Miss Valentine: 275,000,000
Mr. 5: 295,000,000
Dorry the Blue Giant: 350,000,000
Broggy the Red Giant: 350,000,000
Usopp: 235,000,000
Miss Goldenweek: 253,000,000
Mr. 3: 303,000,000
Vivi: 195,000,000
Sanji: 315,000,000
Dalton: 280,000,000
Tony Tony Chopper: 275,000,000
Chessmarimo: 270,000,000
Wapol of Tin: 290,000,000
Luffy: 360,000,000 Fire Fist Portgas D. Ace: 625,000,000 (NOT FULL POWER)
Captain Smoker the White Hunter: 380,000,000
Ensign Tashigi: 280,000,000
Mr. 3: 303,000,000
Pell the Falcon: 320,000,000
Miss Sunday: 390,000,000
Chaka the Jackal: 310,000,000
Mr. 4: 314,000,000
Miss Groundhog’s Day: 290,000,000
Usopp: 265,000,000
Chopper: 300,000,000
Mr. 2 Bon Clay: 342,000,000
Sanji: 350,000,000
Miss New Year’s Eve: 300,000,000
Nami: 250,000,000
Mr. 1 Daz Bones the Killer: 371,000,000
Zolo: 375,000,000
Miss Father’s Day: 222,000,000
Mr. 7: 227,000,000
Vivi: 235,000,000
Luffy: 400,000,000
Mr. 0 Sir Crocodile: 405,000,000***
Captain Hina the Black Cage: 370,000,000
I did not compare him to HP... jeez. I pointed out one sentence that was similar to what HP loved to repeat.
Mihawk doesn't need to be a villain to be an antagonist. Hell, Usopp is one of the heroes, and he became an antagonist on Water Seven until they went to Enies. The thing is, Zoro's goal is to become the WSS, and Luffy wants Zoro to become WSS, so either Zoro's gonna fight Mihawk at some point, or someone will beat Mihawk and become Zoro's opponent.
Y'all really OP otakus for listing power levels of so many characters
You kind of were, and he's the only one I know that used the whole "consistency/structure in OP" logic. But I'm saying I feel he has another account (the ones that have bashed others, and I don't think you've attacked others), dupe being short for duplicate. I don't understand how agreeing with someone on something ruins your reputation, though, unless
But One Piece has certain structures. Each arc has an antagonist, for example. Each arc also follows certain themes drawn from pretty much anything, ethics, history, other fiction, etc. Oda himself explains that kind of in the commentary of Monsters, he puts stuff into a mixer, and that's how he creates his stories.
But we'll leave it at that. I would honestly just forget about HP. I do think that he had... problems, the fact that he seemed completely unable to recognize his mistakes point towards an internal problem, so I honestly think we should also give him some rest.
The list I've created has from the start of OP, East Blue to current Wano. It includes characters who had skirmishes and removes the grunts or no-name characters or those that were not important enough to be on it. For example, I don't include Johnny and Yosaku from Arlong Park or even Captain Nezumi, etc. There's no point in gouging their strength. It goes Arc by Arc, to include the nicknames/epithets of each character. I based it on off numbers in the millions and early billions. Just like the Bounty system in the OP World. I got the idea from an old DBZ power level list I've seen before.
Mr. 4: 314,000,000
Miss Groundhog’s Day: 290,000,000
Usopp: 265,000,000
Chopper: 300,000,000
Mr. 2 Bon Clay: 342,000,000
Sanji: 350,000,000
Miss New Year’s Eve: 300,000,000
Nami: 250,000,000
Mr. 1 Daz Bones the Killer: 371,000,000
Zolo: 375,000,000
Miss Father’s Day: 222,000,000
Mr. 7: 227,000,000
Vivi: 235,000,000
And there is too much power level inflation in your list. It is very unlikely that the Strawhats actually got much stronger from Whiskey peak to Alabasta. I personally would only list a new entry whenever a character gets a power-up, as these happen at very natural and meaningful points in the story.
Alternatively you could add a different entry for each Strawhat at each Saga start or end point.
What you should not do is add a new entry for them on every arc. That's Dragon Ball's system and would completely inflate any One Piece chart, creating huge problems later on.
You also put the characters to close together.
Mr 2. broke a few ribs of Sanji, whereas Mr. 1 made Zoro bleed like no one until Kuma. I know Bounties aren't strenght, but Mr. 1 has more than twice of Mr. 2's bounty, that's too much to be neglectable.
With your list, Mr. 7 is almost as strong as Usopp, but he dropped the floor after just one peacock slash from Vivi, while Usopp tanks a stone mace to the face (Syrup), outruns a Fishman and then beats him up with via surprise and a hammer, gets crushed into stonewalls and caught up in explosions that break all bones in his body... Certainly Mr. 7 is weaker than Chew.
But One Piece has certain structures. Each arc has an antagonist, for example. Each arc also follows certain themes drawn from pretty much anything, ethics, history, other fiction, etc. Oda himself explains that kind of in the commentary of Monsters, he puts stuff into a mixer, and that's how he creates his stories.
But we'll leave it at that. I would honestly just forget about HP. I do think that he had... problems, the fact that he seemed completely unable to recognize his mistakes point towards an internal problem, so I honestly think we should also give him some rest.
Not necessarily, and WCI proves this. Big Mom is the boss of the crew, but Luffy never fought her, he fought Katakuri and was useless against Big Mom. Structure would indicate Luffy would fight Big Mom and win as she's the boss, as this almost always happened. Marineford also broke structure by having Luffy lose without even fighting the boss/es. I'm also not a fan of the whole power level argument because there are various factors that go into fights. Luffy was inferior to Crocodile, but he still managed to win because of Robin, ingenious plan to use water, and blood. Enel could have beaten Luffy, but Luffy's devil fruit made him the perfect counter to Enel.
I think it's just ego. I used to argue with him a lot, so I know how bad he was/is at arguing and how inflexible he is at anything he doesn't like to the point of twisting manga and selectively reading. Believe me, I know. However, that's no reason to turn an anthill into a mountain over a sentence being compared. It's not like I said you were a lot like him; in fact, xxGenesis's rudeness reminded me more of him, if that was him being rude few pages ago.
Like, why would you think Luffy, someone who struggled to beat Cracker and couldn't even put a dent on Big Mom with Sanji and with Gear 4, could take her on or beat her during WCI?
But One Piece has certain structures. Each arc has an antagonist, for example. Each arc also follows certain themes drawn from pretty much anything, ethics, history, other fiction, etc. Oda himself explains that kind of in the commentary of Monsters, he puts stuff into a mixer, and that's how he creates his stories.
But we'll leave it at that. I would honestly just forget about HP. I do think that he had... problems, the fact that he seemed completely unable to recognize his mistakes point towards an internal problem, so I honestly think we should also give him some rest.
I think you shouldn't do this, that is, ommiting characters you don't feel gaugeworthy creates a lot of problems
And there is too much power level inflation in your list. It is very unlikely that the Strawhats actually got much stronger from Whiskey peak to Alabasta. I personally would only list a new entry whenever a character gets a power-up, as these happen at very natural and meaningful points in the story.
Alternatively you could add a different entry for each Strawhat at each Saga start or end point.
What you should not do is add a new entry for them on every arc. That's Dragon Ball's system and would completely inflate any One Piece chart, creating huge problems later on.
You also put the characters to close together.
Mr 2. broke a few ribs of Sanji, whereas Mr. 1 made Zoro bleed like no one until Kuma. I know Bounties aren't strenght, but Mr. 1 has more than twice of Mr. 2's bounty, that's too much to be neglectable.
With your list, Mr. 7 is almost as strong as Usopp, but he dropped the floor after just one peacock slash from Vivi, while Usopp tanks a stone mace to the face (Syrup), outruns a Fishman and then beats him up with via surprise and a hammer, gets crushed into stonewalls and caught up in explosions that break all bones in his body... Certainly Mr. 7 is weaker than Chew.
What do you mean I can add a different entry for each Straw Hat at each start? Plus, I want to believe that after each Arc they grow a bit strong, sometimes more than others, even if its a by a little. I only add a new entry for them when they are in a skirmirsh with someone and/or to show their power level improvement during the same Arc, take a look at Luffy vs Crocodile in the first fight, Luffy lost but in the 2nd and 3rd he grew a bit stronger from experience and knowledge, so I want to acknowledge that.
I don't want to add all the characters in OP because, that would make my list even longer than it already is, and this is just a small portion of it. Not only that but theyre also irrelevant to the power structure/ranking. For example, what good would it do if I were to add Kohza from Alabasta or even those Alabasta guardians who were fodder to Crocodile, dont even recall their names, or the Chefs from the Baratie..etc. I only add people who make a significant difference in the power structure.
I can see where they are coming from with Weevil. Kizaru said he was as strong as a young Whitebeard. However, which Era of Young Whitebeard is Kizaru referring too? Roger's rival Era, Rock's Era, or pre Rock's Era? There's a lot of wiggle room.
