One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[nik87]

Well. It's already an established fact — Garp and Roger, they nearly killed each other multiple times. It means that Garp could go toe to toe with Roger barehanded.

Though I understand where you're coming from. I can't quite imagine it myself, a realistic way for someone like Luffy to overpower a sword user with fists only. It does seem a little implausible.

I mean... Sure, hakied up fists can become as hard as steel, but actual steel clad in haki is without a doubt a deadlier weapon...

Narrative is the only thing that keeps Garp equal to weapon users. I need to see how they deal with weapons and the manga keeps avoiding it. If it's on Luffy's way, the plot takes care of it one way or another but Garp doesnt get the same treatment.

View media item 23269
Strongest from left to right and top to bottom

Oi, Drake above Zoro?!
Sabo, King, Beckman above Rayleigh?!
What da heck Shasha-kun?

 

[hokageji]

Zoro on the level of Katakuri (and maybe even above him) is just absurd, you'll have to wait for him to actually beat a YC before that.

No way... considering that its a list by nik, anyone above Zoro is the best possible outcome..

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 24, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 24, 2020 ---

So I've made mine:

Spoiler

Oden isn't on the list of characters available but I'd have included him in the Admiral class. The Ryuma on the list is supposed to the original, from legend and not the zombie from Thriller Bark.

For Yonkou Commanders, I've included them all in at least that class though I'm from their strength level, it'd be more accurate to spread them across anywhere between NW Captain to Admiral, where I have Marco. Only other exceptions are for Ben Beckman, Katakuri, Vista and King. Based on current showing, a lot of could actually be lower.

I would've liked to include more of Big Mom's children, as she has a lot of fighters but there's simply too many LOL.

Let know what you think.

I love the distribution of the ranking, its very well done. The only thing i'll say is Shiki needs to be way higher. It took Garp and Sengoku both to take him down in the manga...

 

[M3J]

He doesnt have any feats except needing Sengoku's help to beat Shiki. Also, needing Roger to beat Rocks.
The "Hero" of Marines and his legendary off-panel feats...

He doesn't need feats other than what characters have said, especially Roger. And according to Sengoku, it looked like it was Roger and Garp vs. the Rocks pirates, which consisted of Rocks, Whitebeard, Big Mom, and Kaidou - two against four. There literally is no reason to believe Garp is not on the same level as Roger and Whitebeard.

 

[Luke Beifong]

My tier list:

Legends: Roger, WB, Shiki, Garp, Sengoku. Raylight and Tsuru are pretty close to them or maybe in same tier.
Reasons: Simple, Roger is the PK, WB and Garp are said as his closest rivals, Sengoku and Shiki are said to be so strong as his fellow rivals, in case, respective, Garp and Roger. Raylight are said to be the shadow of Roger, so I can totally see him being as strong as Roger and Tsuru are the strongest female Marine and is said to be in Marine as long as Garp and Sengoku and fight as many battles as them. And are said as the smartest of the 3. And I’m saying in their prime. That’s why I put them in “Legends”, their time already have passed. The new generation is raising.

Tops: BB, Skanks, Kaido, BM, Akainu. Maybe Kuzan, he almost draw with Akainu.
Reasons: The Yonko and the Fleet Admiral. Oda said that Akainu can become the PK in one year if he want and Akainu isn’t the type of guy that left enemy’s standing next to him. If Akainu needs the Poneghyphys of BM and Kaido to become the PK, I can see him killing them to conquer what he needs. And I think he’s totally capable of killing them.

Almost their: Marco, Kizaru, Ben Beckman.
Reasons: Simple here too. Marco are said to be one of few people that can fight BB and have a great DF power. If Kizaru is as strong as his DF allows him to be, he certainly can be a monster much higher in this list. The commanders of Shanks are said to be stronger than the average and Ben is his First Mate, so I think he is stronger than them.

Top Yonko Commander: Katakuri, King, Luffy, Fujitora, Yassop, Lucky Roo. Maybe Denjiro, Ashura, Kawamatsu, Kid, Law and BB Crew.
Reasons: Yassop and Lucky Roo are the others commanders of Shanks and must be as strong as the strongests YC of the others crews. The retainers seems to be strong and have hype in them, but to be honest I don’t put faint in them. I hope Kid and Law are in here to, I want to see them as Luffy’s “WB and Shiki”. BB Crew seems to be pretty strong and I don’t doubt them to be here.

YC: Queen, Jack, Smoothie, Cracker, Jimbe. The rest of the retainers, Uroge and I hope, I’m praying for Zoro, Sanji and Killer to be here too. Boa and the VA are here too. Drake.
Reason: The retainers are strong, far for being fodder. Uroge beats a YC, simple. Zoro, Sanji and Killer needs to be here to keep up with his captains. Boa seems to be pretty strong and I don’t think VA are fodder, in my opinion they can be pretty, pretty strong. I can see Drake as a monster just waiting the right time to show of, put all he have out of him. I remember when he appears in Sabaody I’m thinking he seems to be as strong as Luffy, Kid and Law.

Below here I think the speculation only grows exponentially and the discussion becomes little productive.

 

[Shasha23]

Narrative is the only thing that keeps Garp equal to weapon users. I need to see how they deal with weapons and the manga keeps avoiding it. If it's on Luffy's way, the plot takes care of it one way or another but Garp doesnt get the same treatment.

Oi, Drake above Zoro?!
Sabo, King, Beckman above Rayleigh?!
What da heck Shasha-kun?

From the beginning of timeskip at SA multiple people were talking about how BB, Kid, and Drake are making the biggest moves in the NW, its only natural to place him that high.

Rayleigh is old and is not active anymore, his power has declined to the point where he cant beat an admiral anymore but is still on YC1 level.

 

[nik87]

There literally is no reason to believe Garp is not on the same level as Roger and Whitebeard.

He is "same level" but since I believe he would lose a fight against either of them, I placed him in the second row.
Manga needs to give me barehanded vs sharp weapons feats to place him into the same row. Sengoku has better chances to be moved up than Garp.

From the beginning of timeskip at SA multiple people were talking about how BB, Kid, and Drake are making the biggest moves in the NW, its only natural to place him that high.
Rayleigh is old and is not active anymore, his power has declined to the point where he cant beat an admiral anymore but is still on YC1 level.

Yes I understand that but look at Drake's combat abilities. Straight-forward combatant without tricky DF. Weapon user with buff to physical stats but nothing unusual, at best could be a threat to Jack. Do you see someone like that stoping the man who spent 2 years with Mihawk?
Rayleigh is still fighting equally with no other than Kizaru himself and Kizaru couldnt handle him and threw a tantrum later on because of it.
I dont think that Sabo, King and Beckman are able to do the same.

 

[Aki1991]

He is "same level" but since I believe he would lose a fight against either of them, I placed him in the second row.
Manga needs to give me barehanded vs sharp weapons feats to place him into the same row. Sengoku has better chances to be moved up than Garp.

You and your sharp weapons feats are really annoying . So Luffy will never become pirate king since he is not using a sword or what? What nonsense is this, please?

 

[Pirate Queen]

You and your sharp weapons feats are really annoying . So Luffy will never become pirate king since he is not using a sword or what? What nonsense is this, please?

Don't get him started, it's nauseating lol

 

[Shasha23]

Yes I understand that but look at Drake's combat abilities. Straight-forward combatant without tricky DF. Weapon user with buff to physical stats but nothing unusual, at best could be a threat to Jack. Do you see someone like that stoping the man who spent 2 years with Mihawk?
Rayleigh is still fighting equally with no other than Kizaru himself and Kizaru couldnt handle him and threw a tantrum later on because of it.
I dont think that Sabo, King and Beckman are able to do the same.

Truthfully yeah, at this point i see Kid and Drake being close to Luffy's level, for me the 2 of them are just a half step away from Luffy and a step ahead of Zoro. Probably end game Kid will be Luffy's pirate rival while Drake being his greatest marine foe(since its impossible for Smoker and Koby to fulfill this role)

Rayleigh was barely holding back Kizaru, i just don't see him being strong enough to be placed on the same level as admirals anymore.
Sabo is that high up for me because of his new power, after having the ability for a few minutes he was able to hold off Fujitorra and i believe at this point he is on that level, Beckman was stated to be close to Shanks in terms of power so putting him that high up is understandable, as for King i only put him that high because he is 2nd in command of the crew of the strongest creature but i wouldn't object to placing him a tire lower.

 

[M3J]

Pretty sure Rayleigh's goal was to buy Straw Hats enough time to escape and not beat Kizaru outright, otherwise that'd have drawn the Marines to the island.

 

[nik87]

You and your sharp weapons feats are really annoying . So Luffy will never become pirate king since he is not using a sword or what? What nonsense is this, please?

Well, shut me up with some feats? You cant. And dont worry, Luffy's future is bright, not a single future opponent in his way uses sharp weapons.

Truthfully yeah, at this point i see Kid and Drake being close to Luffy's level, for me the 2 of them are just a half step away from Luffy and a step ahead of Zoro. Probably end game Kid will be Luffy's pirate rival while Drake being his greatest marine foe(since its impossible for Smoker and Koby to fulfill this role)

Rayleigh was barely holding back Kizaru, i just don't see him being strong enough to be placed on the same level as admirals anymore.
Sabo is that high up for me because of his new power, after having the ability for a few minutes he was able to hold off Fujitorra and i believe at this point he is on that level, Beckman was stated to be close to Shanks in terms of power so putting him that high up is understandable, as for King i only put him that high because he is 2nd in command of the crew of the strongest creature but i wouldn't object to placing him a tire lower.

End game from Marine side are Admirals themselves and we arent far from it so unless you expect Drake to reach their levels in that short time I dont see him being an actual threat. Even with such level at end-game he wouldnt be above Zoro in my book. We will see what Drake and Zoro do in Wano...

I see it otherwise, Kizaru was barely holding back Rayleigh who wanted to save SHs from Pacifista despite dealing with an Admiral. Kizaru himself said that he was making him look bad there. Sentomaru said he never saw anyone stop Kizaru...Kizaru vented his rage on pirates because of it. Garp said Marines dont want to deal with another legend besides Whitebeard in MF, if he were just a YC1 there would be no need for such portrayal.

Everyone knew that Fujitora held back vs Sabo, for me he still isnt that level but could be close.
Beckman has hype but being Shanks' equal or close, hardly.
King is strong but being an inbetweener tier, idk... The reason I mentioned these 3 is because you placed them above Rayleigh.

 

[Shasha23]

End game from Marine side are Admirals themselves and we arent far from it so unless you expect Drake to reach their levels in that short time I dont see him being an actual threat. Even with such level at end-game he wouldnt be above Zoro in my book. We will see what Drake and Zoro do in Wano...

I see it otherwise, Kizaru was barely holding back Rayleigh who wanted to save SHs from Pacifista despite dealing with an Admiral. Kizaru himself said that he was making him look bad there. Sentomaru said he never saw anyone stop Kizaru...Kizaru vented his rage on pirates because of it. Garp said Marines dont want to deal with another legend besides Whitebeard in MF, if he were just a YC1 there would be no need for such portrayal.

Everyone knew that Fujitora held back vs Sabo, for me he still isnt that level but could be close.
Beckman has hype but being Shanks' equal or close, hardly.
King is strong but being an inbetweener tier, idk... The reason I mentioned these 3 is because you placed them above Rayleigh.

I expect Drake and Kid to not lose out to Luffy's growth, i see them being admiral level pretty soon actually, just the fact that Oda hyped up BB, Kid and Drake gives me hope.

among the YC1 only Katakuri is shown to be a disappointment, Ben can rival Shanks, Marco had a shot at being yonko, and King is 2nd strongest to Kaido and was confident in dealing with the Big Mum and her children, Shiryu is an end game fighter who just got a new power up, he should be high up there pretty soon, for me all the YC1 should be strong enough to take over from there respective captains, so placing Rayleigh as the strongest among them given his age and lack of activity is understandable for me.
Ray-san should be strong enough to fight off an admiral but he wont be able to beat 1 the best he can hope for is a draw.

Yes that why i put Sabo at the lower end of the tire with Fuji being the strongest in that tire.
Well he was stated to rival Shanks in terms of power, it would be really difficult for me to not place him that high.
Yes i believe they are currently stronger than Rayleigh, i mean after this arc Luffy and Kid will surpass him with people like Drake, Zoro and Law being in the same tire as him, the new-gen will keep getting stronger while he declines, but if we were talking about prime Rayleigh he would surely be way up the rankings.

 

[thedude]

So I've made mine:

Spoiler

Oden isn't on the list of characters available but I'd have included him in the Admiral class. The Ryuma on the list is supposed to the original, from legend and not the zombie from Thriller Bark.

For Yonkou Commanders, I've included them all in at least that class though I'm from their strength level, it'd be more accurate to spread them across anywhere between NW Captain to Admiral, where I have Marco. Only other exceptions are for Ben Beckman, Katakuri, Vista and King. Based on current showing, a lot of could actually be lower.

I would've liked to include more of Big Mom's children, as she has a lot of fighters but there's simply too many LOL.

Let know what you think.

Agree with this one. I'd have put the top 3 Shanks commanders in the admiral category, not just Beckham, but that's just my opinion on how strong that crew has to be.

I'd also have Kidd and Law in the YC with Zoro. I can't see them being weaker than him.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 24, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 24, 2020 ---

Thanks. Make your own list and post so we can see who was right after all.

@goldb I wouldnt place WB and Roger on a special pedestal.
Sabo too high. Mihawk under Shanks? Marco too high.
Doffy and Lucci too high. Shiki too low.
Zoro, Shiryu, Magellan, Kuma too low, imo.
Keep it like that tho and let's compare after Wano.

Only swordboi's put Mihawk over Shanks. The rest of us are sane.

Like only a swordboi would see Zoro at YC and say "That's too low" lol.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 24, 2020 ---

I thought that was obvious as well, and I tend not to be so fast at times. <_<

I'd still put him next to Katakuri after the Udon training. You're an otaku so you have enough time to promote him after this arc.

To be fair, the pictures are tough to actually see (I like Goldb and Nik's source so much better)!

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 24, 2020 ---

Was thinking about this earlier while writing about Law and Kidd - Luffy has easily the 4th or 5th best crew in the whole series (crew as in allies etc). Imagine if he was to just have 8 divisions with the executive level or below etc as members of those divisions.

He has at least 20 people ranging from executive to YC level and a sizable portion of people who can be useful and aren't entirely fodder.

• YC or above (9): 4 SH + 3 samurai + 2 minks : Luffy, Jinbe (div 2), Zoro (div 1), Denjiro (div 4), Ashura (div 5), Sanji (div 3), Kawamatsu (div 6), Ina (div 7) and Neko (div 8).
• Executive (15): 6 SH + 2 samurai + 6 minks + 4 grand fleet : Cavendish, Barto, Brook, Robin, Kiku, Sai, Hajrudin, Shishilian, Roddy, Blackback, Concelot, Giovanni, Carrot, Kinemon.

Then the rest who are going to be useful and can probably keep some lower ranked VA and below busy. Cant name them all.

• Minister: mid level minks, rest of grand fleet, some in the scabbards
• Useful: at least 10 non fodder in Wano,
• Fodder: 5k+

That would be a monstrous crew but all the same, if Luffy wages war on you and isn't above calling all his allies, you are effed. The rest of the supernovas can't keep up.

Edit: Got too bored yesterday so here would be the breakdown. (In hindsight, I almost don't want to give Zoro a division and instead just have him as the solo one man army and first mate).

Spoiler: Division format

Captain: Luffy

Division 1: Zoro, Cavendish, Kiku,
Division 2: Jinbei, Brook, Robin,
Division 3: Sanji, Barto, Shishilian,
Division 4: Denjiro, Sai, Roddy,
Division 5: Ashura, Blackback, Hajrudin,
Division 6: Kawamatsu, Carrot,
Division 7: Ina, Kinemon,
Division 8: Neko, Concelot

Was hoping each division had a monster trio but anyone suggest a way to complete this with only SH main crew and allies. The division leaders cannot change though.

I'd add the Fishman princes too! Not sure exactly how strong they are, but certainly better than the Gifter fodder we've seen in Kaido's crew.

 

[nik87]

Only swordboi's put Mihawk over Shanks. The rest of us are sane.
Like only a swordboi would see Zoro at YC and say "That's too low" lol.

You are celebrating too early. Both cases are yet to be confirmed/denied.

 

[goldb]

Agree with this one. I'd have put the top 3 Shanks commanders in the admiral category, not just Beckham, but that's just my opinion on how strong that crew has to be.

I'd also have Kidd and Law in the YC with Zoro. I can't see them being weaker than him.

I put Beckman specifically in that category as he's the only one we've seen in any sort of "clash" with an Admiral and I use the word clas very loosely. Now I'm aware that Yasopp and Roux are considered noteworthy even among Yonkou Commanders, but until I've seen anything from them I'll say YC+ is the highest I'd put them.

You're not wrong about them though; Brannew noted that Shanks has the most balanced crew across the board( mentioned Roux, Beckman and Yasopp by name) and high average bounty. "No easy targets" he says, that's a pretty strong statement. ref. ch957

I don't disagree with that at all, that's just my bias showing LOL. The YC level I have there could in hindsight even be split in two, creating a level below between NW captains and YC. There seems to be such a big gap in actual strength between Commanders, the biggest issue with that is Whitebeard's crew. As we know the divisions aren't decided on strength and because we've only seen but Marco, Vista, Jozu and Ace fight properly, the others are difficult to gauge. Then there's Curiel. Oh Curiel. ref ch579

I'll have to rework my list, as I need to re-evaluate for myself what period I'm placing characters like Rayleigh, Shiki and Garp from; whether its their current strength level or their peak. Establish a clear baseline...easier to do it based on current strength, as to not faff around too much.

Whoever started with this list, I hate you. It's all I'm thinking about now.

 

[HereNThere]

Whoever started with this list, I hate you. It's all I'm thinking about now.

You ain't lying about that. Especially when you have a visual format to organize with.

I definitely agree with your thoughts on Yasopp and Roo. I didn't put them on YC+ because of no direct feats, but they are YC at the very least.

I feel the same about Ivankov and the other Revolutionary Commanders. Iva and Morely in particular seemed to be recognized by Doffy as particularly strong fighters next to Sabo and Dragon. I wasn't really interested in them, but I'm slowly warming up to their potential.

 

[Pirate Queen]

You ain't lying about that. Especially when you have a visual format to organize with.

I definitely agree with your thoughts on Yasopp and Roo. I didn't put them on YC+ because of no direct feats, but they are YC at the very least.

I feel the same about Ivankov and the other Revolutionary Commanders. Iva and Morely in particular seemed to be recognized by Doffy as particularly strong fighters next to Sabo and Dragon. I wasn't really interested in them, but I'm slowly warming up to their potential.

I think as a general rule if the GOROSEI or WORLD GOVERNMENT themselves mention you, you are above the norm so I wouldn't mind putting Roo or Yassop at YC+.

 

[goldb]

I feel the same about Ivankov and the other Revolutionary Commanders. Iva and Morely in particular seemed to be recognized by Doffy as particularly strong fighters next to Sabo and Dragon. I wasn't really interested in them, but I'm slowly warming up to their potential.

Hmm when did Doffy refer to Iva and Morley? you mean he's talking to Tsuru aboard the prison ship?

See I was trying to be realistic in ranking them as they have positions of importance within the Revolutionary Army but we've not seen them in action. So as it stands I won't put them any higher that where they are, especially as the Revolutionary Army is an largely unknown in terms of strength save Sabo, Kuma and Iva. We know they're dangerous, but that's mostly because of the threat they pose to the WG and not individual strength.

It'll be interesting to see these RA commanders in actual fights, especially Karasu or Morley.

 

[HereNThere]

Hmm when did Doffy refer to Iva and Morley? you mean he's talking to Tsuru aboard the prison ship?

He may have been in Impel Down by that point, but yeah, he was talking to Tsuru.

They were silhouetted with Sabo and Dragon when he brought up the potential candidates in the fun run to One Piece and stated to be monsters.

As for feats, we have the fact that they can clash with the Admirals. We don't know the outcome, but Fujitora didn't escape unscathed and the news made it clear it was quite the fight.

 

[Fox666]

As for feats, we have the fact that they can clash with the Admirals. We don't know the outcome, but Fujitora didn't escape unscathed and the news made it clear it was quite the fight.

Sabo appeared to be at disadvantage against Fujitora, and he should be stronger than anyone but Dragon among the revolutionaries.

But it was 4 against 2.