One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

That's why Doffy never trashed Zoro and an Admiral was put between them to babysit Doffy and protect him from Zoro.

Yeah yeah sure. Whatever satisfies your fantasy logic.

Law is shit compared to Zoro and even he managed to kill Doffy had there not been another plot element to nullify his Gamma Knife

Last I checked Doffy did not die but with your fantasy logic, he did. Lol. Seriously buddy!

And Law is shit? Just great! I'm done with you lol.

Yes, he was "praying" because he was affected by plot induced stupidity

If it's clear to everyone else that Zoro could have done nothing other than get defeated or let those who are strong enough do the job, then I need not say anything else.

Zoro alone would trash Doffy

Headcannon!

No, sad news for you, Zoro has been far above Luffy the entire time, even now he remains ahead

Headcannon!

Zoro is about to trash King without extreme difficulty, Doflamingo is small fry compared to that and I am looking forward to excuses.

And you think Wano Zoro with sword boost and upgrade is the same as Dressrosa Zoro without a magic sword.

Also I never knew you could see the future

All hail King Nik

 

[nik87]

Yeah yeah sure. Whatever satisfies your fantasy logic.

Last I checked Doffy did not die but with your fantasy logic, he did. Lol. Seriously buddy!
And Law is shit? Just great! I'm done with you lol.

Of course he didnt die. What would Luffy be doing if Doffy died by Law's hand? You cant have the MC sitting on the bench.
When you compare him to Zoro, yes. Zoro is an entirely different league compared to Law.

If it's clear to everyone else that Zoro could have done nothing other than get defeated or let those who are strong enough do the job, then I need not say anything else.

It is clear that Zoro could have easily joined the battle after Pica and was instead tasked with pushing a plot element. I dont need to say more.

Headcannon!

We will see if it is headcanon or not after the fight with someone far above Doffy - King.

And you think Wano Zoro with sword boost and upgrade is the same as Dressrosa Zoro without a magic sword.
Also I never knew you could see the future
All hail King Nik

Yes, Wano Zoro is the same as Fishman Island Zoro.
There is no magic sword. There is no sword boost.
Both swords are the same grade and one has a far better hardness, it looks like a nerf to me and Oda's usual modus operandi is to nerf Zoro either through injury, taking his sword away or in this case giving him a weaker sword and injuring him. He still gonna trash King and kill Kaido.

 

[Fox666]

I'm not talking about merely stopping, we are discussing fights here.

Aokiji will 100% defeat/kill Doflamingo regardless of how difficult it is.
No matter how advantageous Doffy's fruit is he's not taking down an Admiral in a one on one battle.

I don't think Doflamingo stand a chance against the former Admirals if he was forced to fight them close. Doflamingo was very scared of fighting Kaido, but the 3 Admirals in Marineford didn't think twice before challenging Whitebeard 1-on-1.

Also the Admirals performed well against Whitebeard, not to say they overpowered him in some occasions. Luffy with Gear 4 was one-shot by Kaido... it shouldn't be very different with Doflamingo himself.

Although Aokiji seems to be at disadvantage at long-ranged battles. I'm not sure how he would catch Doflamingo mid-air. The only long-ranged attack he showed is that freezing ray, and Doflamingo already proved to be able to break the ice. He also has these spears attack, but that seems to have a very limited range.

 

[King Moe]

Who exactly has Sanji faced and defeated in this post timeskip that you would place him above Zoro or even Jinbe?

Even if we were to set that aside or include pre-timeskip feats (both shown and told), Sanji would still rank below these two. Especially since the timeskip, neither have really had to go all out against worthy opponents. After Wano we can re-evaluate that, I think this is the arc that will give us a much clearer picture of where these 3 guys rank, as there are many powerful individual in the enemy's forces.

Who have those 2 faced that are stronger than Sanji? Jimbei only beaten Cream Guy and Zoro got Hype Tool in 4 fights in Wano while only beating fodder enemies like Hody, Monet, and Pica. Going by all that Sanji is above them with Jimbei only one closer while Zoro went down by a lot by how arc treated his fights.

We will see in upcoming fights, but just saying out if the 3, Sanji had tougher enemies he face and already shown dominance and defeat to the higher members to the Beast Pirates. It's debatable on Jimbei on who stronger, but can't give dues to Zoro after what the fights shown him as of late.

Of course they will get stronger after the arc, but just saying is all.

 

[Aliocha]

Zoro really trainee with enma in the last week before invasion, and in your own words

 

[King Moe]

Actually the reason Fuijtora didn't do anything to Doflamingo and Birdcage was already stated because of his orders by WG. He can't act out unless he got the order for it which was same situation with Smoker when dealing with Crocodile before acting out. Been shown both similarities that Warlords have a lot of lee way before they can be taken down and thus Fujitora decided to not do anything, but support everyone instead taking him down himself. It was clearly obvious he was holding back on everything even when you saw this afterward:

And afterwards he fought with Luffy and still had advantage over him despite having multiple huge destroyed debris over head of the whole island with no problem and still holding back on everything. Pretty sure Fujitora if he was to go all out, it would destroy everything around, but he can't as he doesn't want to risk lives around him which in his character. The excuse saying 'Fujitora can't do anything to Birdcage or Doffy' is misguided and headcannon as he only stop because of orders, not because he can't beat him. Only one who failed to do something is just Zoro who didn't cut Birdcage as nothing should hold him back especially after cutting Golem Pica, but is unable to do same thing to Birdcage and rather let many suffer to not cut it instead cutting as his first instinct as a swordsman?

Again it make no sense and Zoro was and never could have taken on Birdcage, let alone face off Doflamingo without getting his shit kick in.

 

[nik87]

@Mwhitt You should debate "manga facts", especially after you saw Fujitora saying that Luffy has the power to back up his words of fighting Yonko/Admirals.
How did that manga fact play out for you?

 

[McNuss]

Actually the reason Fuijtora didn't do anything to Doflamingo and Birdcage was already stated because of his orders by WG. He can't act out unless he got the order for it which was same situation with Smoker when dealing with Crocodile before acting out. Been shown both similarities that Warlords have a lot of lee way before they can be taken down and thus Fujitora decided to not do anything, but support everyone instead taking him down himself. It was clearly obvious he was holding back on everything even when you saw this afterward:

No that is not it.

Admirals can stripe Shishibukai off their titles, he just did that with Law in the very same arc.

Fujitora was playing a gamble in Dressrosa, he bet on the Strawhats facing the Donquixote Pirates creating a situation that he could abuse to highlight the Shishibukai systems flaws to the entire world.
He essentially gambled with all of the citizens life's, that's why he immediately orders his soldiers to protect the citizen, because his own inaction would endanger them.

He clearly used Sabo as an excuse so he could pretend he was to busy. Sabo even comments that afaik.

People think of Fujitora as some kind of white knight within the marines, but that is Smoker's role. Fujitora is an extremist who gauged out his own eyes (!!!!).

 

[Mwhitt]

@Mwhitt You should debate "manga facts", especially after you saw Fujitora saying that Luffy has the power to back up his words of fighting Yonko/Admirals.
How did that manga fact play out for you?

Bruh I've had multiple post of mine deleted I've fed you enough. Zoro blantly says he will be stronger once he masters the sword. That implies 1 he has to train to master the sword and 2 once he masters it, it will make him stronger. The character himself says that yet you choose to debate what the author has stated in the manga in black and white. Why?

I wish they didn't remove my Micheal Jordan video man it was perfect but I'll sum it up for you. "Stop it, get some help."

 

[nik87]

Zoro blantly says he will be stronger once he masters the sword.

And Fujitora said Luffy was strong enough to fight Yonkos/Admirals. Manga fact that was proven wrong by manga itself.
"Manga facts" are very much debatable. For Zoro to be stronger he need to prove so. If he ends up doing the same stuff, how is he stronger lol...

That implies 1 he has to train to master the sword and 2 once he masters it, it will make him stronger.

Zoro "mastered" the sword literally right after the first use and it probably wouldnt ever drained his haki if he knew what it does.
Containing haki to prevent Enma to drain it - Zoro too stronk, eh? He literally managed to do it on 2nd use in the same chapter...

You better hope for something different to happen regarding Zoro otherwise good luck claiming that he got stronger due to containment of Haki...
Zoro was already plenty strong from the TS Sabaody reunion, he never hit his limits, not even close. The whole plot point with Enma may only be a step towards to Black Blade and until then, literally no difference about Zoro. But you do you and blindly follow "manga facts" until Kaido's club hits you...

 

[Mwhitt]

@Mwhitt You should debate "manga facts", especially after you saw Fujitora saying that Luffy has the power to back up his words of fighting Yonko/Admirals.
How did that manga fact play out for you?

I've replied to you like 3 times and its been deleted every time. I'll say it once again in a shorter way. Zoro himself said he will be stronger after mastering the sword. Why debate that? Do you not think Zoro knows his own strength? You know it better than Zoro? He's not real, Oda put that in there to highlight Zoro getting a power up. No more no less to debate anything beyond that is ludicrous.

 

[Fox666]

Admirals can stripe Shishibukai off their titles, he just did that with Law in the very same arc.

An Admiral cannot fire a Shichibukai.

However, if a Shichibukai commits a crime, like forming an alliance with pirates (as opposed to having them as subordinates), they can be arrested by the Marines.

In Doflamingo case, he was manipulating the Tenryuubito. If anything, Doflamingo had power to stripe Fujitora of his title...

 

[Mwhitt]

And Fujitora said Luffy was strong enough to fight Yonkos/Admirals. Manga fact that was proven wrong by manga itself.
"Manga facts" are very much debatable. For Zoro to be stronger he need to prove so. If he ends up doing the same stuff, how is he stronger lol...

Zoro "mastered" the sword literally right after the first use and it probably wouldnt ever drained his haki if he knew what it does.
Containing haki to prevent Enma to drain it - Zoro too stronk, eh? He literally managed to do it on 2nd use in the same chapter...

You better hope for something different to happen regarding Zoro otherwise good luck claiming that he got stronger due to containment of Haki...
Zoro was already plenty strong from the TS Sabaody reunion, he never hit his limits, not even close. The whole plot point with Enma may only be a step towards to Black Blade and until then, literally no difference about Zoro. But you do you and blindly follow "manga facts" until Kaido's club hits you...

He didn't immediately master it he only took his haki back instead of being drained like a regular swordsman. He was briefly shown training with the sword afterward, he trained man sorry but it happened.

Luffy was strong enough to fight a yonko Luffy is no joke dude you forget how he punched around Kaido? Not just any one can do the things Luffy did. He was not strong enough to beat one...there is a distinct difference.

I won't debate Zoro's statement when the character says he will be stronger I believe it.

 

[nik87]

He didn't immediately master it he only took his haki back instead of being drained like a regular swordsman. He was briefly shown training with the sword afterward, he trained man sorry but it happened.
Luffy was strong enough to fight a yonko Luffy is no joke dude you forget how he punched around Kaido? Not just any one can do the things Luffy did. He was not strong enough to beat one...there is a distinct difference.
I won't debate Zoro's statement when the character says he will be stronger I believe it.

The only reason why it was drained in the first place is because Zoro wasnt aware of the draining effect.
He is literally seen in the same chapter using the sword without the draining happening.
Training to contain haki which he could do from the start lol.

Sure he was, that's why he looked like a regular fly against both BM and Kaido. Punched around Kaido and did 0 damage, very impressive, lol.
Kidd and Killer fought Kaido too, they werent strong enough to beat him either. No difference, lol.

You should debate it because the statements of the characters have been wrong plenty of times.
You can blindly believe in it, I want proof.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

And Fujitora said Luffy was strong enough to fight Yonkos/Admirals.

Fujitora was correct. Luffy was strong enough to fight Yonko/Admiral i.e back up his words of not running away from them. Just like Doflamingo who was confident enough to want to fight Aokiji and even Fujitora. Same Doflamingo Fujitora witnessed Luffy beat.
Fighting does not mean winning.
Luffy can fight any of the powerhouses (whether Yonko or Admiral) at that point but will lose. Fact!!!
Even right now Luffy won't be able to beat Kaido in a straight one on one. He'll be supported at first, before taking the lead role.

The only Yonko he'll take down by himself will be Blackbeard.

--- Double Post Merged, May 10, 2020, Original Post Date: May 10, 2020 ---

Kidd and Killer fought Kaido too, they werent strong enough to beat him either.

It took both Kidd and Killer to face Kaido. Luffy did it all alone. Yeah and that's the point, he has the power to back up his words. They can fight a Yonko not defeat one.
Not even Big Mom will be able to beat Kaido. At best a tie.

 

[nik87]

Fighting does not mean winning.

Any scrub can be confident lol. Killer fought Kaido, big deal.
Fujitora said he had the strength to back up his words. He was literally one shotted as soon as Kaido moved a finger.

It took both Kidd and Killer to face Kaido. Luffy did it all alone.

No difference if they were 1vs1, all 3 are one-shot material. No different than East Blue fodder.
They dont have the strength to fight Yonko/Admiral.

 

[M3J]

He didn't immediately master it he only took his haki back instead of being drained like a regular swordsman. He was briefly shown training with the sword afterward, he trained man sorry but it happened.

Luffy was strong enough to fight a yonko Luffy is no joke dude you forget how he punched around Kaido? Not just any one can do the things Luffy did. He was not strong enough to beat one...there is a distinct difference.

I won't debate Zoro's statement when the character says he will be stronger I believe it.

Do yourself a favor and block him or put him on ignore. You're just encouraging him by responding.

How was Luffy strong enough to fight a Yonkou when Kaidou barely felt anything and was just taken by surprise?

 

[McNuss]

An Admiral cannot fire a Shichibukai.

However, if a Shichibukai commits a crime, like forming an alliance with pirates (as opposed to having them as subordinates), they can be arrested by the Marines.

In Doflamingo case, he was manipulating the Tenryuubito. If anything, Doflamingo had power to stripe Fujitora of his title...

He just did fire Law in the very same arc. It's very clear that the question is more of a rethorical one. Smoker's report from Punk Hazard should have been more than enough to verify crimes committed by Doflamingo.

The Tenryubito actually want to get rid of Doflamingo. Had an Admiral taken him in, they wouldn't have complained at all, quite the opposite, their secret would be safe then.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Any scrub can be confident lol. Killer fought Kaido, big deal.
Fujitora said he had the strength to back up his words. He was literally one shotted as soon as Kaido moved a finger.


No difference if they were 1vs1, all 3 are one-shot material. No different than East Blue fodder.
They dont have the strength to fight Yonko/Admiral.

Yes and he displayed that strength by bringing down Kaido in dragon form and pummelling his indestructible ass.
On the contrary, they do have the strength to fight the strongest but they'll be defeated either way.

Point is Fujitora confirmed Luffy had the strength to fightback Admirals and not run away like he used to Pre TS.

He has the Haki to defend himself, he has the power to pummel them but he's not beating/defeating any in that category at that point in the story (Dressrosa).

 

[Fox666]

The Tenryubito actually want to get rid of Doflamingo. Had an Admiral taken him in, they wouldn't have complained at all, quite the opposite, their secret would be safe then.

It's not that simple.

They cannot risk Doflamingo opening his mouth. We don't know what the secret is, but it's something very bad for the World Government. Maybe all nations would turn against it, and engulf the world into a war?

The Tenryuubito cannot risk it. It's better for them to leave Doflamingo alone.

And it's not Fujitora could do anything for the sake of Dressrosa. He knows the government solution in these cases is killing all citizens like they did in Ohara. The may even blame Fujitora and turn him into a criminal, as punishment for provoking Doflamingo.

--- Double Post Merged, May 11, 2020, Original Post Date: May 11, 2020 ---

They can fight a Yonko not defeat one.

That's a bit odd... I think anyone can "fight" a Yonko, like Higuma.