One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[albertwv]

Idk why people rank Magellan really high (YC level) when he's not. He was a big threat Pre TS but not anymore. Pre TS G2 Luffy wouldve been able to defeat him if Luffy had haki back then, but with high diff. Magellan is just like Pica with their DF's DC. Theyre nearly invincible and can deal a lot of damage but thats because of their DF but theyre kinda weak.
Honestly I dont see how Shiyruu lost to Magellan, if Shiyruu is strong as he seems (YC level) then he shouldnt have lost to Magellan. Magellan is low VA level. The seasoned VA's would wreck Magellan.

And yeah Udon's prison seastone cuffs were weakened versions so the DF users prisoners could still have strength to work

 

[M3J]

Wasn't Luffy doing decently against Magellan once he had wax shoes or something on to protect against Magellan's poison? No reason why haki wouldn't work either. I think Magellan's advantage is that he was introduced before haki really became a thing. Shiryuu probably lost because he either didn't have haki for some reason or Magellan is a better fighter than we thought. I wouldn't be surprised if he was a much better fighter long ago though.

 

[Takuan]

How would Daz end if Zoro had the ability to cut steel from the start? In one second.
How would Kaku end if Zoro pulled Asura from the very start? In one second.
How would Lucci end if Luffy pulled G2/G3 from the start? In one second. Oh wait...

Going by this logic, would you say that Sanji also had a low diff fight against Jabra, since once he unlocked DJ it was over ?
And would you say Luffy had a low diff fight against Doffy, since once he used King Kong Gun he won easily ?

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Going by this logic, would you say that Sanji also had a low diff fight against Jabra, since once he unlocked DJ it was over ?
And would you say Luffy had a low diff fight against Doffy, since once he used King Kong Gun he won easily ?

That's not the same logic at all.

Against both Kaku and Daz Bone it literally took Zoro only one attack to completely annihilate them.

Whereas in case with Luffy and Sanji it was a continuous effort to gradually reduce Lucci's/Doffy's/Jabra's HP points before they went down.

--- Double Post Merged, May 13, 2020, Original Post Date: May 13, 2020 ---

Idk why people rank Magellan really high (YC level) when he's not. He was a big threat Pre TS but not anymore. Pre TS G2 Luffy wouldve been able to defeat him if Luffy had haki back then, but with high diff. Magellan is just like Pica with their DF's DC. Theyre nearly invincible and can deal a lot of damage but thats because of their DF but theyre kinda weak.
Honestly I dont see how Shiyruu lost to Magellan, if Shiyruu is strong as he seems (YC level) then he shouldnt have lost to Magellan. Magellan is low VA level. The seasoned VA's would wreck Magellan.

And yeah Udon's prison seastone cuffs were weakened versions so the DF users prisoners could still have strength to work

No. Magellan has his body always protected by a layer of poison. Haki or not (unless super advanced armament) you will still get poisoned.

Although I agree that Magellan probably isn't all that strong by himself (without the DF).

 

[Takuan]

That's not the same logic at all.

Against both Kaku and Daz Bone it literally took Zoro only one attack to completely annihilate them.

Whereas in case with Luffy and Sanji it was a continuous effort to gradually reduce Lucci's/Doffy's/Jabra's HP points before they went down.

Agreed. That was bad examples on my part, and not what i wanted to emphasize when i quoted Nik.

For sure, that's Zoro's ability as a swordsman, he needs one clean slash in order to defeat his opponent (quoting Nik). Whereas with CQC fighters like Sanji and Luffy who need to punch and kick, it requires them to gradually reduce the health of their opponents, like you're saying.

But that's the thing though, when Sanji and Luffy need to make an effort throughout the fight, Zoro needs only one finisher move basically. But that's just a stretch and very cheap to claim Zoro's fights are low diff fights just by taking that one finisher into consideration. All the majority of the fight, when Sanji and Luffy need to fight and reduce their opponent's health, Zoro is struggling as well in order to get the ability to send that finisher.
Yes, Alabasta Zoro with the ability to cut steel low diffs Mr.1, i agree with this, but the majority of fight was necessary for Zoro to get to that point, so it's just unfair to take that out and only say "he 100 to 0 Mr.1, low diff". Basically, one weird and paradoxal sentence to summarize my thought: without this high diff fight against Mr.1, Zoro wouldn't have been able to low diff him. That's how i see it anyway.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Agreed. That was bad examples on my part, and not what i wanted to emphasize when i quoted Nik.

For sure, that's Zoro's ability as a swordsman, he needs one clean slash in order to defeat his opponent (quoting Nik). Whereas with CQC fighters like Sanji and Luffy who need to punch and kick, it requires them to gradually reduce the health of their opponents, like you're saying.

But that's the thing though, when Sanji and Luffy need to make an effort throughout the fight, Zoro needs only one finisher move basically. But that's just a stretch and very cheap to claim Zoro's fights are low diff fights just by taking that one finisher into consideration. All the majority of the fight, when Sanji and Luffy need to fight and reduce their opponent's health, Zoro is struggling as well in order to get the ability to send that finisher.
Yes, Alabasta Zoro with the ability to cut steel low diffs Mr.1, i agree with this, but the majority of fight was necessary for Zoro to get to that point, so it's just unfair to take that out and only say "he 100 to 0 Mr.1, low diff". Basically, one weird and paradoxal sentence to summarize my thought: without this high diff fight against Mr.1, Zoro wouldn't have been able to low diff him. That's how i see it anyway.

Well, I agree.

That's One Piece. You grow in battle.

However what I think nik87 was trying to get across is that once Zoro has surpassed his opponent in a fight, should they do a round 2, it would take waaay less effort for Zoro to defeat them again.

This wouldn't work the same way with Luffy vs Doffy fight for example.

 

[Takuan]

Well, I agree.

That's One Piece. You grow in battle.

However what I think nik87 was trying to get across is that once Zoro has surpassed his opponent in a fight, should they do a round 2, it would take waaay less effort for Zoro to defeat them again.

This wouldn't work the same way with Luffy vs Doffy fight for example.

Yes, i have to agree with that indeed. The result of Zoro's fight might have come through a harsh struggle, but once he overstepped that limit the rematch will be way easier.
We basically agree

 

[HereNThere]

I forgot about Udon's cuffs being watered down. The way they worded it, it didn't seem like there was much a difference from the regular one. The guard said they'd be able to move, but just barely, which is how it seems to work normally.

I'm mainly asking where should Magellan actually be, because he's definitely underpowered compared to what we've seen PTS.

DF users may be somewhat handled with Sea Stone cuffs, but non fruit users on Doffy's level should be running amok.

 

[thedude]

Well, I agree.

That's One Piece. You grow in battle.

However what I think nik87 was trying to get across is that once Zoro has surpassed his opponent in a fight, should they do a round 2, it would take waaay less effort for Zoro to defeat them again.

This wouldn't work the same way with Luffy vs Doffy fight for example.

But isn't that more a function of Zoro's opponent being a gimmick? The reason Zoro could low diff Daz today is because Daz is a one trick pony, and he overcame that trick. Doffy on the other hand has multiple ways to fight and counter Luffy's strength. Luffy today is stronger, and he'd beat him more easily, but by no means would it be a low difficulty fight.

I also don't think there is any reason to think that after he beat Kaku, beating him again in the future would be a cakewalk. Kaku would still push him, and he could try to counter or prevent Ashura in various ways. Just like knowing DJ, Jabra could try to counter that in a rematch vs Sanji.

The only one he'd low diff is Daz, and like I said, it's because Daz was a gimmick fruit specifically setup for Zoro to overcome and gain a new skill.

--- Double Post Merged, May 13, 2020, Original Post Date: May 13, 2020 ---

I forgot about Udon's cuffs being watered down. The way they worded it, it didn't seem like there was much a difference from the regular one. The guard said they'd be able to move, but just barely, which is how it seems to work normally.

I'm mainly asking where should Magellan actually be, because he's definitely underpowered compared to what we've seen PTS.

DF users may be somewhat handled with Sea Stone cuffs, but non fruit users on Doffy's level should be running amok.

All of WB's crew is underpowerd compared to what we've seen PTS. I don't view power levels from before the time skip as accurate to what we see now. No one was really using haki the way they do now, so it's hard to say what rank someone would have. Magellan was strong enough to be the warden of a jail housing the worst criminals. I'd say high Vice Admiral, with potential if he had haki of being an admiral. His fruit could one shot Blackbeards crew!

He also defeated Iva quite easily, and Iva was going toe to toe with Kuma, and is one of Dragon's strongest fighters. Don't sleep on Magellan, dude is strong.

 

[Shasha23]

You guys are missing the bigger picture here, the reason Zoro would low diff his past opponents where as Luffy or Sanji would still struggle is because Zoro has way higher attack damage than them, once Zoro learns how you fight and how to beat you then its over you can never hope to challenge him again since he would beat you from the start.

All of Zoro's fights are not him trying to overpower and over come his opponents strength to beat them like how Luffy and Sanji fight, but rather all of Zoro's fights are him trying to figure out how to land a single hit, once he lands a hit its always over since Zoro's opponents have all been weaker than him. In each and every arc the NO.1 guy has always been miles ahead of the NO.2 guy, where as in the chase of Luffy and Zoro they are pretty close meaning if Luffy is able to beat NO.1 guy then NO.2 guy stood no chance against Zoro since he was on the same level as NO.1 guy and Luffy.

Wano will be the first time where the NO.2 guy is as strong as Luffy and Zoro and the NO.1 guy is milles stronger than them, meaning for the first time Zoro wont be able to win his fight in a single hit, King will probably be the first person to get up after taking a finisher from Zoro and keep going, this will be the first time Zoro doesnt OHKO an opponent in the story(hopefully Oda wont make King go down in 1 hit hopefully)

 

[nik87]

Going by this logic, would you say that Sanji also had a low diff fight against Jabra, since once he unlocked DJ it was over ?
And would you say Luffy had a low diff fight against Doffy, since once he used King Kong Gun he won easily ?

Yes, once Sanji used DJ, fight became a lot more easier. Not as easy as Zoro's fight but it dropped from high diff to med diff at least.
I wouldnt call it low diff as Sanji still had to take a clean shot for the opportunity to land one himself.

In Doffy's case, no. KKG is a move from G4 mode, it is not raising Luffy's limit. DJ and Asura are modes, not moves, and they did raise the limits.

 

[HereNThere]

Magellan was strong enough to be the warden of a jail housing the worst criminals. I'd say high Vice Admiral, with potential if he had haki of being an admiral. His fruit could one shot Blackbeards crew!

He also defeated Iva quite easily, and Iva was going toe to toe with Kuma, and is one of Dragon's strongest fighters. Don't sleep on Magellan, dude is strong.

That's why I'm trying to figure out where should be properly scaled to now. He should be one of the top tiers given his job and who he potentially has to deal with. Luffy shouldn't have done as well as he did against him if you take all that into consideration.

Same with the other Head Jailers.

 

[M3J]

How would Daz end if Zoro had the ability to cut steel from the start? In one second.
How would Kaku end if Zoro pulled Asura from the very start? In one second.
How would Lucci end if Luffy pulled G2/G3 from the start? In one second. Oh wait...

Zoro is using swords to fight, after all, and swords can often be lethal.

I forgot about Udon's cuffs being watered down. The way they worded it, it didn't seem like there was much a difference from the regular one. The guard said they'd be able to move, but just barely, which is how it seems to work normally.

I'm mainly asking where should Magellan actually be, because he's definitely underpowered compared to what we've seen PTS.

DF users may be somewhat handled with Sea Stone cuffs, but non fruit users on Doffy's level should be running amok.

Were there any non-fruit users?

 

[HereNThere]

Were there any non-fruit users?

Not sure, but I'd be surprised if everyone down there was a DF user.

If Rayleigh in his prime was imprisoned, what the hell would they do to him? Or any other high tier who specializes in haki but don't have abilities?

 

[thedude]

Not sure, but I'd be surprised if everyone down there was a DF user.

If Rayleigh in his prime was imprisoned, what the hell would they do to him? Or any other high tier who specializes in haki but don't have abilities?

Tie them down tight like they did Doflamingo.

 

[jaymizzo]

How would Daz end if Zoro had the ability to cut steel from the start? In one second.
How would Kaku end if Zoro pulled Asura from the very start? In one second.
How would Lucci end if Luffy pulled G2/G3 from the start? In one second. Oh wait...

Its bound to happen when fighting fodder though. Which Zoro has done a lot of.

Its a different ball game all together when you are fighting Yonko commanders like Luffy has.

 

[nik87]

Its bound to happen when fighting fodder though. Which Zoro has done a lot of.
Its a different ball game all together when you are fighting Yonko commanders like Luffy has.

Seems like everyone Zoro fought was a fodder while everyone Luffy ever fought was a Yonko commander.

 

[jaymizzo]

Seems like everyone Zoro fought was a fodder while everyone Luffy ever fought was a Yonko commander.

There is a hierarchy after all.

 

[HereNThere]

Tie them down tight like they did Doflamingo.

I guess. The fact that, Pre Time Skip, folks were just out and about makes me think they were lax. Maybe his current method of imprisonment is the result of the prison break.

 

[Fox666]

Seems like everyone Zoro fought was a fodder while everyone Luffy ever fought was a Yonko commander.

Is that not the rule in practiclly every single arc?

It's easier to list the exceptions: Mihawk and Kuma.

Zoro also gets points for humilhating Davy Jones before he took the steroids pills.