One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[nik87]

I don't have to, he's shown it. Mihawk vs. Zoro, I think Zoro vs. Hachi, Vista vs. Mihawk....

Is Fujitora disqualified from going after WSS title because he has a devil fruit or is he prohibited from using his DF powers while going for the title?
Whatever you answer, it is a headcanon.

 

[jaymizzo]

Is Fujitora disqualified from going after WSS title because he has a devil fruit or is he prohibited from using his DF powers while going for the title?
Whatever you answer, it is a headcanon.

Who else has shown the desire to be WSS? Do you mind making us a list?

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 27, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 27, 2020 ---

What? Jack isnt considered here because he uses DF power for his arsenal, same thing possibly can be said for sasaki.

So having a DF disqualifies someone from being considered a swordsman? Im confused here as to why they aren't considered...

 

[AmitDS]

Has she though? I mean, Nami took her down for few minutes with lightning, Jinbei blocked and threw her back, Sanji and Luffy stopped her from rekking Reiji, and King managed to topple over her ship and cause her to lose her memory. Oh, and Queen also managed to put her to sleep (I don't know if he really knocked her out due to the ZZZs). Kaidou was attacked by Luffy in Gear 4, got up like nothing happened, and one-shot LUffy. I wouldn't be surprised if she was stronger than Kaidou, but her portrayal hasn't been that good.

She stalemated Kaido in a straight up fight.
His crew said they were on the same level. That is all we need. King toppling her ship, causing her to fall into the sea, Nami slowing her with her own Zeus powered up and her falling asleep after talking to Queen and seeming fine, don't prove that she isn't on his level. Her fighting him for days leading to a draw and their sky splitting moment makes it clear where they both stand.

She has cartoony moments due to plot requirements and her being odd (Smoothie alluded to her being weird with these things) and she somehow always outrageously comes out of her escapades fine. It's just Oda being Oda and in some cases needing to nerf her to prevent her from wrecking the SHs and even Kaido's crew.

 

[M3J]

Is Fujitora disqualified from going after WSS title because he has a devil fruit or is he prohibited from using his DF powers while going for the title?
Whatever you answer, it is a headcanon.

This reply makes no sense. We're talking about swordmanship, not overall fighting ability. Luffy is a great fighter, does that mean he's a great swordsman? When Zoro fought zombie Oars, do you think that was a sword fight? Akainu is one of the best combatants, as is Garp, does that mean they're some of the best swordsmen?

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 27, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 27, 2020 ---

She stalemated Kaido in a straight up fight.
His crew said they were on the same level. That is all we need. King toppling her ship, causing her to fall into the sea, Nami slowing her with her own Zeus powered up and her falling asleep after talking to Queen and seeming fine, don't prove that she isn't on his level. Her fighting him for days leading to a draw and their sky splitting moment makes it clear where they both stand.

She has cartoony moments due to plot requirements and her being odd (Smoothie alluded to her being weird with these things) and she somehow always outrageously comes out of her escapades fine. It's just Oda being Oda and in some cases needing to nerf her to prevent her from wrecking the SHs and even Kaido's crew.

A member asked a question. I answered to share my theories, not my own views. I even said that Big Mom is tough and on the same level as Kaidou, if not maybe stronger, and that Luffy wouldn't beat her in WCI without an asspull powerup (and I was right).

 

[nik87]

This reply makes no sense. We're talking about swordmanship, not overall fighting ability. Luffy is a great fighter, does that mean he's a great swordsman? When Zoro fought zombie Oars, do you think that was a sword fight? Akainu is one of the best combatants, as is Garp, does that mean they're some of the best swordsmen?

You are the one coming up with something that manga didnt touch upon.
Oda has never prohibited swordsmen to use their other abilities, not for Fujitora, not for Kizaru, not for Big Mom.
"Pure" sword fight is a fabrication of the fandom. Oda has never limited swordsmen to swords only.
There is no referee to say: Hold it Fujitora, you are not allowed to use your devil fruit abilities if you want to be WSS.

 

[thedude]

Probably because they're not trying or really going all out.

That doesn't mean a thing.


This just means Mihawk is the superior swordsman and would win in a pure sword fight. If the fight can be anything goes, then Shanks likely would win.

And even then, they apparently were even pre-Shanks becoming a Yonko. Shanks then likely became stronger and became a Yonko. They haven't fought since Shanks lost his arm, there is no real way to even say Mihawk is a better swordsman. He just goes around beating swordsmen and keeping the title that way for all we know.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 27, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 27, 2020 ---

We should all put the swordbois on ignore so we can talk about something other than Mihawk or Zoro. It's just thread derailment after thread derailment. So boring.

 

[Aliocha]

so, let's assume that Sugar is a swordsman, if he touches Mihawk (assuming she can do that) and transforms him into a toy, even without using his sword. She becomes the WSS

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

And even then, they apparently were even pre-Shanks becoming a Yonko. Shanks then likely became stronger and became a Yonko. They haven't fought since Shanks lost his arm, there is no real way to even say Mihawk is a better swordsman. He just goes around beating swordsmen and keeping the title that way for all we know.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 27, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 27, 2020 ---

We should all put the swordbois on ignore so we can talk about something other than Mihawk or Zoro. It's just thread derailment after thread derailment. So boring.

I mean, if shanks can become stronger, what stops mihawk to become stronger too?

 

[Shasha23]

I mean, if shanks can become stronger, what stops mihawk to become stronger too?

LOL watch as they cant counter this and they will start saying "pure swordsmanship not overall strength"
Funny how much people hate Oda for saying Mihawk is stronger than Shanks and that the red haired man is just a stepping stone for Zoro.

 

[AmitDS]

This reply makes no sense. We're talking about swordmanship, not overall fighting ability. Luffy is a great fighter, does that mean he's a great swordsman? When Zoro fought zombie Oars, do you think that was a sword fight? Akainu is one of the best combatants, as is Garp, does that mean they're some of the best swordsmen?

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 27, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 27, 2020 ---

A member asked a question. I answered to share my theories, not my own views. I even said that Big Mom is tough and on the same level as Kaidou, if not maybe stronger, and that Luffy wouldn't beat her in WCI without an asspull powerup (and I was right).

You asked the rhetorical question "has she though?" in reponse to someone talking about her portrayal on Kaido's level so I replied that her stalemating him and being said to literally be on his level more than once shows that she was portrayed on his level. All those other points don't impact her portrayal which is my point. The minute she drew with him all the theories about Kaido being stronger or the strongest emperor should have died and nothing you said implied that you think she's possibly stronger given how you sort of listed what Nami, Queen and King did.

 

[Pirate Queen]

And even then, they apparently were even pre-Shanks becoming a Yonko. Shanks then likely became stronger and became a Yonko. They haven't fought since Shanks lost his arm, there is no real way to even say Mihawk is a better swordsman. He just goes around beating swordsmen and keeping the title that way for all we know.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 27, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 27, 2020 ---

We should all put the swordbois on ignore so we can talk about something other than Mihawk or Zoro. It's just thread derailment after thread derailment. So boring.

And even better Mihawk has been sulking without a "challenge" for years not facing powerful swordsmen where as Shanks grew to be a Yonko and continues to fight and clash with Yonko class opponents when you can't name a single person of importance that Mihawk has even clashed with besides a Yonko Commander lol. The most likely opponent he faced that he defeated was Pre Yonko Shanks many years ago, since then no one.

I bet he is even the first person with the title. And there is no indication he ever fought any other high tier swordsmen. I doubt he ever fought Big Mom or Fujitora but by default he is considered stronger without any arguement lol

 

[thedude]

And even better Mihawk has been sulking without a "challenge" for years not facing powerful swordsmen where as Shanks grew to be a Yonko and continues to fight and clash with Yonko class opponents when you can't name a single person of importance that Mihawk has even clashed with besides a Yonko Commander lol. The most likely opponent he faced that he defeated was Pre Yonko Shanks many years ago, since then no one.

I bet he is even the first person with the title. And there is no indication he ever fought any other high tier swordsmen. I doubt he ever fought Big Mom or Fujitora but by default he is considered stronger without any arguement lol

Note that there is no indication he even beat Shanks!

 

[Pirate Queen]

Note that there is no indication he even beat Shanks!

WB never defeated Roger or Garp but is called the World's Strongest...

Kaido was defeated 7 times, never defeated WB but was called the World's Strongest...

Mihawk has no proof he has ever defeated a relevant top tier and is called the World's Strongest

The only title that matters is Pirate King, becuase to be Pirate King you would have to without a doubt conquer the Grand Line.

 

[nik87]

Fan: Oda, why are you throwing these World's Strongest titles around when they dont mean what they should?!
Oda:

 

[Shasha23]

WB never defeated Roger or Garp but is called the World's Strongest...

Kaido was defeated 7 times, never defeated WB but was called the World's Strongest...

Mihawk has no proof he has ever defeated a relevant top tier and is called the World's Strongest

The only title that matters is Pirate King, becuase to be Pirate King you would have to without a doubt conquer the Grand Line.

To be Pirate King you just need to reach Laugh Tale not conquer or beat anything or anyone!

The only tittle you receive because of absolute strength over others is Marine Admiral position!

 

[M3J]

You are the one coming up with something that manga didnt touch upon.
Oda has never prohibited swordsmen to use their other abilities, not for Fujitora, not for Kizaru, not for Big Mom.
"Pure" sword fight is a fabrication of the fandom. Oda has never limited swordsmen to swords only.
There is no referee to say: Hold it Fujitora, you are not allowed to use your devil fruit abilities if you want to be WSS.

Manga has actually shown us this, whether or not you like it. Can you even prove Mihawk would beat Shanks if swords are banned?

He has shown only sword fights before, and I gave you examples. If you want to deny it, be my guest. You're the one bringing in devil fruits, I never mentioned that. I don't give a shit about devil fruit, If Kizaru makes a sword with his fruit power, it's still sword fighting even if it gives him an advantage. If Zoro gets a devil fruit that makes him even better at swordfighting and beats Mihawk, he's inherited the title. The problem was never devil fruit.

And even then, they apparently were even pre-Shanks becoming a Yonko. Shanks then likely became stronger and became a Yonko. They haven't fought since Shanks lost his arm, there is no real way to even say Mihawk is a better swordsman. He just goes around beating swordsmen and keeping the title that way for all we know.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 27, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 27, 2020 ---

We should all put the swordbois on ignore so we can talk about something other than Mihawk or Zoro. It's just thread derailment after thread derailment. So boring.

Dunno, Shanks still has his sword, so there's a lot of possibilities here.

I mean, if shanks can become stronger, what stops mihawk to become stronger too?

Nothing. Perhaps he's an even stronger swordsman than he was before.

You asked the rhetorical question "has she though?" in reponse to someone talking about her portrayal on Kaido's level so I replied that her stalemating him and being said to literally be on his level more than once shows that she was portrayed on his level. All those other points don't impact her portrayal which is my point. The minute she drew with him all the theories about Kaido being stronger or the strongest emperor should have died and nothing you said implied that you think she's possibly stronger given how you sort of listed what Nami, Queen and King did.

Fair enough. And I was going by my memory of what members here have said.

To be Pirate King you just need to reach Laugh Tale not conquer or beat anything or anyone!

For once you actually agreed with the manga! I'm proud.

 

[Brandish μ]

Two of the "Worlds Strongest X" come from the Yonkou group - and in terms of individual strength, they are not too different in power.

That said, Mihawk is an equivalent to Shanks by portrayal, too. That portrayal matches the above.

If Mihawk wasn't a lone wolf and had the type of charisma to lead a crew, he'd probably be an Emperor.

 

[Shasha23]

For once you actually agreed with the manga! I'm proud.

Its shocking for me that for once you are actually agreeing with facts and not talking more of your lies GJ buddy

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 28, 2020 ---

so, let's assume that Sugar is a swordsman, if he touches Mihawk (assuming she can do that) and transforms him into a toy, even without using his sword. She becomes the WSS

She wont because no one will know who Mihawk is because of her power and probably Shanks or Fujitora will start being called WSS until Mihawk breaks free from her power

 

[M3J]

Two of the "Worlds Strongest X" come from the Yonkou group - and in terms of individual strength, they are not too different in power.

That said, Mihawk is an equivalent to Shanks by portrayal, too. That portrayal matches the above.

If Mihawk wasn't a lone wolf and had the type of charisma to lead a crew, he'd probably be an Emperor.

I'm not sure because Whitebeard has been implied to be the strongest even among the Emperors, and he's had immense respect from them and Admirals as well. Plus, didn't Kaidou get upset at Whitebeard's death as if Whitebeard was the only one with the power to kill him?

Interestingly though no character has ever mentioned him to be equivalent to an Emperor or mentioned him in any way to be on the same plane as them. How strong is Vista? Mihawk was unable to take him down in their short fight or deal much damage to him, whereas an Emperor could probably at least bloody him up noticeably enough.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Strength titles are a matter of perception largely

Someone can watch Prime Garp knock out Kaido and then see Luffy us Kong Gun on Doffy and think Luffy is stronger.

Two of the "Worlds Strongest X" come from the Yonkou group - and in terms of individual strength, they are not too different in power.

That said, Mihawk is an equivalent to Shanks by portrayal, too. That portrayal matches the above.

If Mihawk wasn't a lone wolf and had the type of charisma to lead a crew, he'd probably be an Emperor.

What has Mihawk done equal to Shanks clashing with WB, Kaido, and Akainu? On top of stoping a war.

Mihawk has no portrayal showing he is above or even equal to Shanks.

If Mihawk didn't have a title and people went off what they saw of him, they would claim he is barely YC level.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 28, 2020 ---

To be Pirate King you just need to reach Laugh Tale not conquer or beat anything or anyone!

I didn't say he had to beat anyone. He has to conquer the sea in which he sails. Learn to read.

Roger was called the "man who conquered the grandline"

"Conquered the grandline"