One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Pirate Queen]

You dont need to conquer the sea, you just need to find Laugh Tale.

I took a DIRECT QUOTE from the manga. You wanna deny the manga again?

 

[Brandish μ]

I'm not sure because Whitebeard has been implied to be the strongest even among the Emperors, and he's had immense respect from them and Admirals as well. Plus, didn't Kaidou get upset at Whitebeard's death as if Whitebeard was the only one with the power to kill him?

Yes, it portrays WB and Kaido as superior. However BM is able to fight evenly with Kaido for a day. At least, it seems the Yonkou are on the same tier in strength, with WB/Kaido being the top of it.

Interestingly though no character has ever mentioned him to be equivalent to an Emperor or mentioned him in any way to be on the same plane as them. How strong is Vista? Mihawk was unable to take him down in their short fight or deal much damage to him, whereas an Emperor could probably at least bloody him up noticeably enough.

Yea I agree - when you look at BM pummeling Queen there is a point to be made about the difference in strength.

I don't think Vista stands a chance against Mihawk. However, Mihawk cannot walk over Vista, who is strong. Mihawk had no real motivation against Vista either, and spent most their battle observing Luffy.

What has Mihawk done equal to Shanks clashing with WB, Kaido, and Akainu? On top of stoping a war.

Mihawk has no portrayal showing he is above or even equal to Shanks.

If Mihawk didn't have a title and people went off what they saw of him, they would claim he is barely YC level.

There's a lot Shanks vs Mihawk portrayal... to the point where Oda makes it obvious, to me at least.

If Mihawk was without a title - but was portrayed as equivalent to Shanks as a fighter, then he should be viewed as equivalent to Shanks. Mihawk has a title and the portrayal, and it's logical that Mihawk is a Yonkou level fighter on that.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Yes, it portrays WB and Kaido as superior. However BM is able to fight evenly with Kaido for a day. At least, it seems the Yonkou are on the same tier in strength, with WB/Kaido being the top of it.



Yea I agree - when you look at BM pummeling Queen there is a point to be made about the difference in strength.

I don't think Vista stands a chance against Mihawk. However, Mihawk cannot walk over Vista, who is strong. Mihawk had no real motivation against Vista either, and spent most their battle observing Luffy.



There's a lot Shanks vs Mihawk portrayal... to the point where Oda makes it obvious, to me at least.

If Mihawk was without a title - but was portrayed as equivalent to Shanks as a fighter, then he should be viewed as equivalent to Shanks. Mihawk has a title and the portrayal, and it's logical that Mihawk is a Yonkou level fighter on that.

I agree, but what had Mihawk done on panel that told you, hey this guy is on Shanks level? Can you provide an example?

 

[Brandish μ]

I agree, but what had Mihawk done on panel that told you, hey this guy is on Shanks level? Can you provide an example?

No, because Mihawk hasn't fought. It's portrayal based. I'll concede that isn't great evidence but it's all we've got.

I certainly wouldn't say Mihawk has any right being called stronger than Shanks. If we had to rank characters in this series, Shanks would be 1 rank above Mihawk to me.

Portrayal works, generally, I think. I tend to believe Dragon is at least as strong as the yonkou too - and he has basically no feats lol.

 

[Pirate Queen]

No, because Mihawk hasn't fought. It's portrayal based. I'll concede that isn't great evidence but it's all we've got.

I certainly wouldn't say Mihawk has any right being called stronger than Shanks. If we had to rank characters in this series, Shanks would be 1 rank above Mihawk to me.

Portrayal works, generally, I think. I tend to believe Dragon is at least as strong as the yonkou too - and he has basically no feats lol.

I agree with everything you say which is why certain forum members have no right shit talking Shanks when Shanks is the one with all the feats and Mihawks best feat is asking a Yonko Commander to postpone their clash.

At least wait until Mihawk had an equivalent feat of even being a challenge to a Yonko or Admiral.

 

[Brandish μ]

I agree with everything you say which is why certain forum members have no right shit talking Shanks when Shanks is the one with all the feats and Mihawks best feat is asking a Yonko Commander to postpone their clash.

At least wait until Mihawk had an equivalent feat of even being a challenge to a Yonko or Admiral.

The only mark I can find against Shanks is losing an arm.

Doesn't seem to slow him down, he can still stop Akainu and clash against WB with the one arm.

I don't think it makes sense for Mihawk to be stronger than Shanks from the perspective of plot. Because Mihawk is supposed to be surpassed by Zoro. If Mihawk is on the lower side of the Yonkou tier, that gives some room for Zoro to be slightly above while conserving enough of a gap between Luffy and Zoro. Mihawk being any more stronger than that kinda messes things up, and we'll get even wonkier power scales...

 

[Takuan]

I like Mihawk a lot, but he doesn't have the portrayal of a Yonko level character. Marineford proved it.

I know what people say about that, oh but he wasn't serious when he fought Vista, he could have fodderized but he just didn't really care... Yeah alright.
Still though. Garp, while he was still sitting not doing anything, was immensly respected and got huge praise by Whitebeard. That is portrayal. When Shanks arrived, the war stopped, everyone showed respect, cause he's freaking Shanks. Mihawk by portrayal or by feats, is just not up to par compared to a Yonko.

 

[Brandish μ]

I like Mihawk a lot, but he doesn't have the portrayal of a Yonko level character. Marineford proved it.

I know what people say about that, oh but he wasn't serious when he fought Vista, he could have fodderized but he just didn't really care... Yeah alright.
Still though. Garp, while he was still sitting not doing anything, was immensly respected and got huge praise by Whitebeard. That is portrayal. When Shanks arrived, the war stopped, everyone showed respect, cause he's freaking Shanks. Mihawk by portrayal or by feats, is just not up to par compared to a Yonko.

None of this discounts Mihawk's portrayal with Shanks though as individual fighters. Shanks has a crew. Garp is a part of the biggest gang in the series. Shanks and Garp just happen to also be top tier fighters - which is what I feel Mihawk is presented to be.

I can buy Shanks being stronger for plot reasons, and if Yonkou have to be strongest for those reasons. But the way they garner respect is not solely on what they can do as fighters but also what they mean as leaders/captains.

 

[M3J]

I took a DIRECT QUOTE from the manga. You wanna deny the manga again?

Usopp literally says Luffy doesn't have to fight anyone to become the PIrate King, he just needs to get to Raftel, and Luffy never argued that point. It's not about beating anyone, otherwise Roger would have been the Pirate King or tried to be Pirate King without going to Raftel.

Yes, it portrays WB and Kaido as superior. However BM is able to fight evenly with Kaido for a day. At least, it seems the Yonkou are on the same tier in strength, with WB/Kaido being the top of it.



Yea I agree - when you look at BM pummeling Queen there is a point to be made about the difference in strength.

I don't think Vista stands a chance against Mihawk. However, Mihawk cannot walk over Vista, who is strong. Mihawk had no real motivation against Vista either, and spent most their battle observing Luffy.



There's a lot Shanks vs Mihawk portrayal... to the point where Oda makes it obvious, to me at least.

If Mihawk was without a title - but was portrayed as equivalent to Shanks as a fighter, then he should be viewed as equivalent to Shanks. Mihawk has a title and the portrayal, and it's logical that Mihawk is a Yonkou level fighter on that.

Rather, Whitebeard is portrayed in his own tier. Or he was before the timeskip. The odd thing though, is why doesn't Big Mom have the hype that Kaidou does, if they can fight evenly? Kaidou and Big Mom are probably even as well, until days later probably. Probably similar to whittling down an opponent's shield or defense before you can get at their HP.

Mihawk himself knew who Vista was, so Vista certainly wouldn't be easy for even Mihawk to beat. But Vista is strong enough that Mihawk couldn't take him down, and I'm pretty sure Mihawk would have if he could as Vista was an enemy. But then again, what if Shanks got stronger with one arm but never had a chance to fight Mihawk? If he's an Emperor level swordsman, and Mihawk did beat him, then that'd make Mihawk an Emperor level as well.


I feel like they did have a rivalry, but it isn't there anymore, and they're just friends again. They were probably even or almost even with Mihawk probably a bit superior.

Mihawk's title isn't The World's Greatest Fighter Not an Emperor, it's the World's Strongest Swordsman. It's very specific whereas one Emperor was the World's STrongest Man while another is World's Strongest Creature or something. Mihawk likely specializes in swordfighting, but he may not be AS strong in hand-to-hand combat.

No, because Mihawk hasn't fought. It's portrayal based. I'll concede that isn't great evidence but it's all we've got.

I certainly wouldn't say Mihawk has any right being called stronger than Shanks. If we had to rank characters in this series, Shanks would be 1 rank above Mihawk to me.

Portrayal works, generally, I think. I tend to believe Dragon is at least as strong as the yonkou too - and he has basically no feats lol.

 

[Takuan]

None of this discounts Mihawk's portrayal with Shanks though as individual fighters. Shanks has a crew. Garp is a part of the biggest gang in the series. Shanks and Garp just happen to also be top tier fighters - which is what I feel Mihawk is presented to be.

I can buy Shanks being stronger for plot reasons, and if Yonkou have to be strongest for those reasons. But the way they garner respect is not solely on what they can do as fighters but also what they mean as leaders/captains.

As individual fighter Mihawk is indeed really strong, but his portrayal is from a long time ago. Just like Garp's portrayal. The difference is, Whitebeard during Marineford was like "They have THAT guy, this dude will be very tricky to deal with, cause he's a beast". He said that about Garp; not a word of praise was said about Mihawk, aside from fodders who also praised Doffy or Hancock the same way.
I don't see what you mean about Garp being a part of the biggest gang in the series. When WB was praising him, that wasn't about Garp being a part of the Marines, it was about Garp as an individual.

We're indeed talking about individual strength, i'm not talking about Shanks having better hype due to having a crew. Mihawk was not respected during Marineford while Shanks or Garp were. You can say Shanks' entire crew was respected not just Shanks himself, but Garp was praised alone, not being part of a group.

Mihawk tried to attack Whitebeard, Whitebeard didn't even bother reacting to it, he didn't even respect Mihawk's attack. Instead a Commander casually blocked the attack. Then another Commander 1v1'd Mihawk. That is not the respect you show when facing someone of Whitebeard's or Shanks' caliber. See how the entire Charlotte thought even together they wouldn't be able to stop Big Mom's rampage. I don't see a Yonko Commander casually, with a smile on his face, try to 1v1 a Yonko level character and thinking he can actually win. Mihawk was disrespected during the war - or at least, never was he treated as a Whitebeard level fighter.

 

[M3J]

I like Mihawk a lot, but he doesn't have the portrayal of a Yonko level character. Marineford proved it.

I know what people say about that, oh but he wasn't serious when he fought Vista, he could have fodderized but he just didn't really care... Yeah alright.
Still though. Garp, while he was still sitting not doing anything, was immensly respected and got huge praise by Whitebeard. That is portrayal. When Shanks arrived, the war stopped, everyone showed respect, cause he's freaking Shanks. Mihawk by portrayal or by feats, is just not up to par compared to a Yonko.

I'm not sure if the latter matters because Shanks came to stop the war, Mihawk had no intention of doing that. If he did, would he have succeeded as Shanks did? And Garp and Whitebeard are from the same generation, and Garp was very visible at the top of the platform next to Ace.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 28, 2020 ---

I NEVER SAID HE HAD TO BEAT ANYONE!

LOL holy shit I just a phrase the manga used to describe Roger becoming PK. I didn't once say Luffy had to beat anyone.

I AM ADDING TO WHAT YOU SAID!

Don't we agree here?

 

[Pirate Queen]

I'm not sure if the latter matters because Shanks came to stop the war, Mihawk had no intention of doing that. If he did, would he have succeeded as Shanks did? And Garp and Whitebeard are from the same generation, and Garp was very visible at the top of the platform next to Ace.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 28, 2020 ---

I AM ADDING TO WHAT YOU SAID!

Don't we agree here?

Lol my bad. I seriously thought you were shasha.

Yes M3J, we agree. I know you stance wholeheartedly.

I'm sorry

 

[Takuan]

I'm not sure if the latter matters because Shanks came to stop the war, Mihawk had no intention of doing that. If he did, would he have succeeded as Shanks did? And Garp and Whitebeard are from the same generation, and Garp was very visible at the top of the platform next to Ace.

I mean, when Shanks came to stop the war all the Marines respected him and his crew, that's respect. When Mihawk stands ready to fight against Whitebeard's crew, if he's a Yonko level character, you'd expect Whitebeard and his crew to at least adress the fact that they're facing such a threat. Instead no word of praise was said, and he got blocked twice by a Yonko Commander.

Garp and Whitebeard are from the same generation, but it's not like Whitebeard doesn't know Mihawk. He even had a little chat with SHanks if i'm not mistaken, about the legendary duels Shanks and Mihawk were having back in the day. Whitebeard is aware of Mihawk's power. He still didn't even pay much attention to him, and trusted Jozu to be capable of handling him, and then Vista thought he could as well. That is just not the level of respect you should be having when fighting a Yonko level character.

 

[Brandish μ]

Mihawk tried to attack Whitebeard, Whitebeard didn't even bother reacting to it, he didn't even respect Mihawk's attack. Instead a Commander casually blocked the attack. Then another Commander 1v1'd Mihawk. That is not the respect you show when facing someone of Whitebeard's or Shanks' caliber.

From a narrative perspective this proves my point.

WB has other capable people around him. Mihawk cannot lay a finger on WB.

 

[Takuan]

From a narrative perspective this proves my point.

WB has other capable people around him. Mihawk cannot lay a finger on WB.

When Mihawk, a supposedly Yonko level character, attacked Whitebeard, Jozu stepped in to block the attack, and Whitebeard who already wasn't even afraid of the attack of this Yonko character, thought his one Yonko Commander Jozu had his back.
Are you seriously saying that this is how you react to a Yonko attack?

It's like saying Whitebeard cannot lay a finger on Ace because he had all Marineford around him. And yet Whitebeard tried.
Wb has other people around him, so he shouldn't be worried about Garp, yet he was. He showed zero respect to Mihawk.

I'm just repeating myself lol

 

[Brandish μ]

Rather, Whitebeard is portrayed in his own tier. Or he was before the timeskip. The odd thing though, is why doesn't Big Mom have the hype that Kaidou does, if they can fight evenly? Kaidou and Big Mom are probably even as well, until days later probably. Probably similar to whittling down an opponent's shield or defense before you can get at their HP.

I really wish WB kept that portrayal, because the Kaido stuff feels like a retcon. Kaido, the dude who was stopped by Shanks. But things are changed now, with Oda giving shine to Kaido now. I still think WB has the portrayal - if we look at the bounties, that is roughly how they shape up. WB was presented with Roger, plus Roger and WB have more of a history.

Mihawk himself knew who Vista was, so Vista certainly wouldn't be easy for even Mihawk to beat. But Vista is strong enough that Mihawk couldn't take him down, and I'm pretty sure Mihawk would have if he could as Vista was an enemy. But then again, what if Shanks got stronger with one arm but never had a chance to fight Mihawk? If he's an Emperor level swordsman, and Mihawk did beat him, then that'd make Mihawk an Emperor level as well.

Not at all, Vista is a strong opponent, and he had the intent to stop Mihawk, which he succeeded in.

Shanks should have gotten stronger, to obtain the Emperor title I'd say he went through a lot of battles. He might have had more fighting than Mihawk since their last clash.

 

[Takuan]

That just doesn't matter if Mihawk has no crew or that Whitebeard had his crew around him. Replace Mihawk with Kaido alone during Marineford, and try to picture everyone at Marineford. They all would be crapping their pants. Whitebeard would not casually let Jozu deal with Kaido's attack, Vista would not dare anything, Whitebeard would consider Kaido his equal and would show respect, crew or not.

 

[Brandish μ]

When Mihawk, a supposedly Yonko level character, attacked Whitebeard, Jozu stepped in to block the attack, and Whitebeard who already wasn't even afraid of the attack of this Yonko character, thought his one Yonko Commander Jozu had his back.
Are you seriously saying that this is how you react to a Yonko attack?

It's like saying Whitebeard cannot lay a finger on Ace because he had all Marineford around him. And yet Whitebeard tried.
Wb has other people around him, so he shouldn't be worried about Garp, yet he was. He showed zero respect to Mihawk.

I'm just repeating myself lol

You are repeating yourself, as am I. I see where you're coming from but to be blunt you're acting as if this is all some logical he blocked this so he = this type thing... which means the level of Mihawks' slash at that range is blockable by Jozu. That is all. If you look at what Mihawk said at that time, about measuring the true distance - then Jozu jumps in - this can be read as WB having a gang and Mihawk not. It can be that simple.

Mihawk does not have a serious fight on panel, nor is he shown beaten in any way. That is a fact. He has portrayal of serious, legendary duels, for which he battled Shanks. Maybe Shanks wanted to be the WSS at some point, but found a crew and decided to aim for an Emperor spot.

There's a chance Mihawk is just YC level like Jozu, and Shanks had to improve tremendously to rise to the top. Then WB shouldn't have thought much of Shanks losing his arm, nor think Shanks' fights with Mihawk were significant.

Why do you think WB noted Garp? It's not just his strength - but his intent. Garp is tricky because he's a top tier and might indeed go all out. It's a fair assumption from WB.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 28, 2020 ---

That just doesn't matter if Mihawk has no crew or that Whitebeard had his crew around him. Replace Mihawk with Kaido alone during Marineford, and try to picture everyone at Marineford. They all would be crapping their pants. Whitebeard would not casually let Jozu deal with Kaido's attack, Vista would not dare anything, Whitebeard would consider Kaido his equal and would show respect, crew or not.

Is this where I use the "cool story bro" emoji?

You made no credible point there.

 

[Takuan]

You are repeating yourself, as am I. I see where you're coming from but to be blunt you're acting as if this is all some logical he blocked this so he = this type thing... which means the level of Mihawks' slash at that range is blockable by Jozu. That is all. If you look at what Mihawk said at that time, about measuring the true distance - then Jozu jumps in - this can be read as WB having a gang and Mihawk not. It can be that simple.

Mihawk does not have a serious fight on panel, nor is he shown beaten in any way. That is a fact. He has portrayal of serious, legendary duels, for which he battled Shanks. Maybe Shanks wanted to be the WSS at some point, but found a crew and decided to aim for an Emperor spot.

There's a chance Mihawk is just YC level like Jozu, and Shanks had to improve tremendously to rise to the top. Then WB shouldn't have thought much of Shanks losing his arm, nor think Shanks' fights with Mihawk were significant.

Why do you think WB noted Garp? It's not just his strength - but his intent. Garp is tricky because he's a top tier and might indeed go all out. It's a fair assumption from WB.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 28, 2020 ---

Is this where I use the "cool story bro" emoji?

You made no credible point there.

I made no credible point ?
... I don't know what to respond. Are you just trolling?

You're saying Mihawk is Yonko level, and the main reason why he got disrespected during Marineford is his lack of crew. I'm saying, replace Mihawk with another Yonko then, a Yonko alone with no crew. I took Kaido as an example. I'm saying, Kaido with no crew would not be ignored like Mihawk was, would not be casually blocked and stalled 1v1 by Yonko Commanders like Mihawk was, Whitebeard would show some respect and seriousness about Kaido's individual power whereas he showed none with Mihawk. If you disagree, i guess we can just stop the debate and agree to disagree. But saying your thinkg about the cool story bro emoji and saying i'm not making any credible point... Didn't expect that from you tbh.

 

[King Moe]

I like Mihawk a lot, but he doesn't have the portrayal of a Yonko level character. Marineford proved it.

I know what people say about that, oh but he wasn't serious when he fought Vista, he could have fodderized but he just didn't really care... Yeah alright.
Still though. Garp, while he was still sitting not doing anything, was immensly respected and got huge praise by Whitebeard. That is portrayal. When Shanks arrived, the war stopped, everyone showed respect, cause he's freaking Shanks. Mihawk by portrayal or by feats, is just not up to par compared to a Yonko.

Possible under the Admirals as well. They didn't fear Mihawk's appearance unlike WB's and Shanks's appearance. Oda knows how to push difference of power between characters and people see them and Yonkos and Admirals were given better portrayal over Mihawk in the whole arc. He is strong, but at best at full power, he could be above YCs, but doesn't look to take on force of Admirals and Yonkos themselves. He is like inbetween of Admirals and YCs to understand his level.