One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[nik87]

Solo Kaido

In a way, he will solo Kaido, nobody will help him do the final slice, it will be all Zoro's effort.
Probably not the solo you have in mind tho.

 

[kkck]

Sanji invariably has a very distinct lack of feats in the new world. The way I see it that's not even debatable, he simply hasn't won fights. Sure, he has been against people higher than him in the pecking order but still. Even franky at least beast one of doflamingo's subordinates... He fought law and ended up with a switched body, he fought vergo and ended up with a broken leg, he sucker kicked oven and dealt no damage....

Zoro could have a role to play in the fight against kaido though since the past couple chapters it will likely be far less relevant than most of us would have hoped. Kaido has already been cut. He is no longer invincible and untouchable. Zoro's is not the one to plop that plot point... If he contributes to this it will likely be by about as much as the non luffy people in the series will contribute.

 

[Ramen]

In all reality, Luffy is most likely going to end off Kaido.

 

[kkck]

In all reality, Luffy is most likely going to end off Kaido.

It's absurd that this even has to be said. The absolutely worst case and most insanely far fetched scenario is that luffy will deal the final hit alongside someone else like kid or the samurai. But even then the actual last hit, even if by seconds, is dealt by luffy.

 

[Ramen]

It's absurd that this even has to be said. The absolutely worst case and most insanely far fetched scenario is that luffy will deal the final hit alongside someone else like kid or the samurai. But even then the actual last hit, even if by seconds, is dealt by luffy.

I'm holding on to my original theory. Law/Kidd/Luffy vs Kaido with Luffy ending it.

 

[King Moe]

Sanji invariably has a very distinct lack of feats in the new world. The way I see it that's not even debatable, he simply hasn't won fights. Sure, he has been against people higher than him in the pecking order but still. Even franky at least beast one of doflamingo's subordinates... He fought law and ended up with a switched body, he fought vergo and ended up with a broken leg, he sucker kicked oven and dealt no damage....

Zoro could have a role to play in the fight against kaido though since the past couple chapters it will likely be far less relevant than most of us would have hoped. Kaido has already been cut. He is no longer invincible and untouchable. Zoro's is not the one to plop that plot point... If he contributes to this it will likely be by about as much as the non luffy people in the series will contribute.

Where Sanji ever fight Law? They never fought each other as Law Heart-Switch when they were running around the base and he did it. Between who would win the fight, will be Law, but he will get struggle out of Sanji similar how Vergo was able to outspeed to prevent his attacks. Also nah, broken leg is debunk as it never both him again nor was factor in the arc when he helps out around. Oven got damage and more fault on Oven to get hit as it's stated he knows both forms of Haki, so if he can't predict or harden his body, then more on him when originally he came to look for enemies around after all. Got reread these arcs as your spouting misinformation now with your talk. Sanji have gotten better performance as it's just fights don't end fully since it been awhile, but doesn't mean he isn't stronger nor able to keep up. Your really been on underestimating characters lately over past instances when recently they been doing better before.

Zoro is not going to harm Kaido unless Luffy want his crew to fight his own battles. Zoro won't be really in this as Luffy want to be one to do major damage and beat Kaido himself. Narrative of Zoro vs Kaido is more fantasy than logical theory especially we seen many arcs Oda like making Luffy be the one to be focal point to defeat of major antagonists.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 17, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 17, 2020 ---

I'm really not. He can be a considered a weakling right now whether you like it or not. He hasn't won a fight yet in the NW.

Nah, he isn't. Again more your headcannon. Smoker in last movie shown, Oda doesn't see him as weakling. He come back later and come back stronger. We shouldn't doubt he won't be effective next time we see him.

 

[Ramen]

Nah, he isn't. Again more your headcannon. Smoker in last movie shown, Oda doesn't see him as weakling. He come back later and come back stronger. We shouldn't doubt he won't be effective next time we see him.

That movie isn't even canon lmao.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 17, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 17, 2020 ---

Smoker very strong, Laughs in Law, Vergo, and Doffy.

 

[kkck]

Where Sanji ever fight Law? They never fought each other as Law Heart-Switch when they were running around the base and he did it. Between who would win the fight, will be Law, but he will get struggle out of Sanji similar how Vergo was able to outspeed to prevent his attacks. Also nah, broken leg is debunk as it never both him again nor was factor in the arc when he helps out around. Oven got damage and more fault on Oven to get hit as it's stated he knows both forms of Haki, so if he can't predict or harden his body, then more on him when originally he came to look for enemies around after all. Got reread these arcs as your spouting misinformation now with your talk. Sanji have gotten better performance as it's just fights don't end fully since it been awhile, but doesn't mean he isn't stronger nor able to keep up. Your really been on underestimating characters lately over past instances when recently they been doing better before.

Zoro is not going to harm Kaido unless Luffy want his crew to fight his own battles. Zoro won't be really in this as Luffy want to be one to do major damage and beat Kaido himself. Narrative of Zoro vs Kaido is more fantasy than logical theory especially we seen many arcs Oda like making Luffy be the one to be focal point to defeat of major antagonists.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 17, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 17, 2020 ---

Nah, he isn't. Again more your headcannon. Smoker in last movie shown, Oda doesn't see him as weakling. He come back later and come back stronger. We shouldn't doubt he won't be effective next time we see him.

I was talking about the heart switch. And yeah, sanji got punked like nothing at that time. And there probably is a noticeable difference between sanji and law. Law lasted decidedly longer than sanji against doflamingo and even saved sanji's sorry ass from straight up death after sanji got owned in 3 seconds against doflamingo.

The broken leg is a fact, there is literally nothing to debunk about it. And this in a fight where vergo was doing mostly kicks for some reason. Granted that sanji was not at 100% but the fact that vergo managed that is pretty bad for sanji. Overall there is little reason for us to think that sanji would win against vergo, let alone law...

Sanji sucker punched (kicked) oven... That's not a a haki issue. And oven simply stood up from that, confused. He didn't take any damage, at least not any meaningful damage. If sanji can only manage that while oven's guard is down then... How is this even a feat? It works more as evidence of how lackluster sanji has been through the series' second half.

Pre time skip oda definitely made the point that zoro and sanji were pretty close in strength but after the timeskip things are just dire for sanji. I mean:

In fishman island sanji double teamed the giant puffer fish alongside jinbe. Meanwhile zoro easily took out houzu, the actual strongest enemy at the time. Evidenced by the fact that zoro pretty much defeated hodi while underwater while in turn houzu managed to block a gear 2 attack even before his upgrade.

And punk hazzard... sanji got punked and a broken leg. At the time I suppose sanji would have had some bragging rights for not dying against vergo but by today's standards that doesn't look very good.

Sanji at dressrosa.... fought doflamingo for 3 seconds and then got owned. No other major fights or anything. Meanwhile zoro breezed through pica, doflamingo's top subordinate at the time. And probably in general.

In wano... maybe sanji did something against page one? Zoro at least took one of hawkin's lives.

Sanji simply doesn't have the feats behind him to evidence status quo between him and zoro being the same as before the timeskip. Sanji has simply not done anything that matters in this regard.

 

[Nie Li]

Smoker is one of the coolest marines and most of us are rooting for him to earn the right to become an admiral in the future, but that's the distant future. The timeskip alone was enough for Luffy and the rest to go from being much weaker than Smoker pre-TS to being able to stomp him low-diff.

So yeah, sure, Smoker is strong when compared to weaklings like Caribou or the East Blue Saga villains, but he's a weakling now when compared to the current level of the MCs and their enemies.

 

[Ramen]

Smoker is one of the coolest marines and most of us are rooting for him to earn the right to become an admiral in the future, but that's the distant future. The timeskip alone was enough for Luffy and the rest to go from being much weaker than Smoker pre-TS to being able to stomp him low-diff.

So yeah, sure, Smoker is strong when compared to weaklings like Caribou or the East Blue Saga villains, but he's a weakling now when compared to the current level of the MCs and their enemies.

Thank you. Someone said it.

 

[King Moe]

That movie isn't even canon lmao.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 17, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 17, 2020 ---

Smoker very strong, Laughs in Law, Vergo, and Doffy.

Yes non-canon, but not characters and their importance to the series and especially those closest to Luffy outside his crew. Are you saying Law, Hancock, Buggy, and Lucci aren't close to Luffy and won't be involve in the story? Yeah, again we haven't seen the last of him and he will be stronger and Vergo he let victory to Law to help him who wasn't doing better in solo fight with him lol. This isn't Naruto side from where you from, OP works differently with their characters not around main cast.

 

[Ramen]

Yes non-canon, but not characters and their importance to the series and especially those closest to Luffy outside his crew. Are you saying Law, Hancock, Buggy, and Lucci aren't close to Luffy and won't be involve in the story? Yeah, again we haven't seen the last of him and he will be stronger and Vergo he let victory to Law to help him who wasn't doing better in solo fight with him lol. This isn't Naruto side from where you from, OP works differently with their characters not around main cast.

Speaking as I don't know OP lmao.

 

[King Moe]

Smoker is one of the coolest marines and most of us are rooting for him to earn the right to become an admiral in the future, but that's the distant future. The timeskip alone was enough for Luffy and the rest to go from being much weaker than Smoker pre-TS to being able to stomp him low-diff.

So yeah, sure, Smoker is strong when compared to weaklings like Caribou or the East Blue Saga villains, but he's a weakling now when compared to the current level of the MCs and their enemies.

Losing fights to very strong opponents doesn't make you weakling unless we should take smack at Law unable to defeat Doffy and yet he is push with Luffy and Kidd to be main forces to bring Kaido down on their side. Past fights shouldn't doubt that they can get stronger and be important later. Oda done this before and we see Smoker stronger again when we see him next time.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 17, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 17, 2020 ---

Speaking as I don't know OP lmao.

You acting like you don't know progress lol.

 

[Nie Li]

Losing fights to very strong opponents doesn't make you weakling unless we should take smack at Law unable to defeat Doffy and yet he is push with Luffy and Kidd to be main forces to bring Kaido down on their side. Past fights shouldn't doubt that they can get stronger and be important later. Oda done this before and we see Smoker stronger again when we see him next time.

Your argument makes no sense:
Law >>> Vergo >>> Smoker

Smoker got stomped both by Law and by Vergo.

Who's doubting Smoker will get stronger later? You're quoting a post in which I say Smoker will likely become an admiral in the distant future.
But we can't talk "probable future" as "current facts". The current facts is that Smoker is a weakling by current standards.

I'd make more points but they'll go over your head.

 

[Ramen]

Your argument makes no sense:
Law >>> Vergo >>> Smoker

Smoker got stomped both by Law and by Vergo.

Who's doubting Smoker will get stronger later? You're quoting a post in which I say Smoker will likely become and admiral in the distant future.
But we can't talk "probable future" as "current facts". The current facts is that Smoker is a weakling by current standards.

I'd make more points but they'll go over your head.

That's usually how discussions go with him.

 

[King Moe]

I was talking about the heart switch. And yeah, sanji got punked like nothing at that time. And there probably is a noticeable difference between sanji and law. Law lasted decidedly longer than sanji against doflamingo and even saved sanji's sorry ass from straight up death after sanji got owned in 3 seconds against doflamingo.

The broken leg is a fact, there is literally nothing to debunk about it. And this in a fight where vergo was doing mostly kicks for some reason. Granted that sanji was not at 100% but the fact that vergo managed that is pretty bad for sanji. Overall there is little reason for us to think that sanji would win against vergo, let alone law...

Sanji sucker punched (kicked) oven... That's not a a haki issue. And oven simply stood up from that, confused. He didn't take any damage, at least not any meaningful damage. If sanji can only manage that while oven's guard is down then... How is this even a feat? It works more as evidence of how lackluster sanji has been through the series' second half.

Pre time skip oda definitely made the point that zoro and sanji were pretty close in strength but after the timeskip things are just dire for sanji. I mean:

In fishman island sanji double teamed the giant puffer fish alongside jinbe. Meanwhile zoro easily took out houzu, the actual strongest enemy at the time. Evidenced by the fact that zoro pretty much defeated hodi while underwater while in turn houzu managed to block a gear 2 attack even before his upgrade.

And punk hazzard... sanji got punked and a broken leg. At the time I suppose sanji would have had some bragging rights for not dying against vergo but by today's standards that doesn't look very good.

Sanji at dressrosa.... fought doflamingo for 3 seconds and then got owned. No other major fights or anything. Meanwhile zoro breezed through pica, doflamingo's top subordinate at the time. And probably in general.

In wano... maybe sanji did something against page one? Zoro at least took one of hawkin's lives.

Sanji simply doesn't have the feats behind him to evidence status quo between him and zoro being the same as before the timeskip. Sanji has simply not done anything that matters in this regard.

Sanji didn't know about Doflamingo's powers vs a guy who lived and knew Doflamingo since he was a kid about his abilities. I wonder who would 'last longer'? Dude, Law got head-start on how he manage with Doflamingo, but still lost and Sanji got Doffy to call him out being strong and needed 2 named attacks when his first one that could cut meteorites was not able to K.O. unlike Law who got K.O. in the first fight with him. Let's not make a debate about this as I do see Law stronger guy, but it wouldn't be easy him facing Sanji.

Can give me evidence in later in arc his leg was hurting him again from fighting Vergo cause nothing support or push this notion. Just your headcannon and Sanji was able to bust open Vergo and send him flying twice prior. He was nerf and yet he was able to do that with him. 100% he would have defeated Vergo in the end if they continue.

Oven was bruised and bleeding from the kick. No such thing as 'no damage' when you hear cracks in his neck that he was even placing his hand around between his should and neck. Again your now going headcannon than being honest critic here. Didn't know you can't outspeed someone to give damage and they must be aware where you hit them. Guess Kizaru is by far weakest of all the Marines since he speed-blitz out of everyone around who can't keep up with him. That is literally bad argument your using as you want him be prepared where he hits in a fight when goal is to damage someone? When you have COO and COA on your person, that is more your fault for not noticing and hardening in the fight when didn't you come there to outlook for enemies in the first place.

Heck he didn't even do it when Bege got better of him as well. There is no 'cheap shots', just you failed to be aware of your understanding in something in his case.

Pretty sure Sanji K.O. Watdsumai with ease as him and Jimbei was playing kick ball without struggle while Zoro got captured after facing Hody and beating octopus guy means nothing compare to Giant Sanji face. This same one who tank Oven's Heat Sea attack and still moving and where was octopus guy? Couldn't handle same steroids Watdsumai stay same without effects from there. Please poor example by far to say who better here.

Now your just lying there as Sanji compare to Zoro has the stronger enemies than Zoro since NW and Zoro honestly has done nothing better in his fights as fodder enemies is nothing worthy and Pica was one of them and he team at the end while he was truly distracted with King Riku. Zoro is no better no doing anything best as Wano shown him hype tooling to even guys like nerfer and fox and Enma to Apoo and Gifters. Also lol did you just said taking Hawkins lives is achievement? Bruh, Law beaten Hawkins to bloody state. Zoro was left bloody by him in the fight and Hawkins just replenish his lives since losing them means nothing to him. He didn't worried about Zoro unlike Law who truly take him out.

If we doing S vs Z on this, please learn to be accurate, not headcannon your way to make Zoro look good as I feel like I am talking to Nik87 here XD.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 17, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 17, 2020 ---

That's usually how discussions go with him.

Don't think your one to talk with how you talk with others.

 

[Ramen]

Don't think your one to talk with how you talk with others.

Lemme know who.

 

[King Moe]

Your argument makes no sense:
Law >>> Vergo >>> Smoker

Smoker got stomped both by Law and by Vergo.

Who's doubting Smoker will get stronger later? You're quoting a post in which I say Smoker will likely become and admiral in the distant future.
But we can't talk "probable future" as "current facts". The current facts is that Smoker is a weakling by current standards.

I'd make more points but they'll go over your head.

Law was getting his ass beat until Smoker helps him. It took more teamwork to get by him since Smoker save his heart for him.

Then why are you disagreeing on that then? Sounded like you were as I didn't say he didn't' lose to those guys, but just saying he will have importance and be stronger later in the series, not just EOS. Knowing Oda, losing a fight won't mean you are weakling or won't get stronger as that isn't how it works with him. I am just stating points, but you guys take offense too much on things when state something that I agree with you, but add logical conclusion. He isn't a weakling nor he won't be able to keep up later is what I am stating.

 

[Ramen]

Law was getting his ass beat until Smoker helps him. It took more teamwork to get by him since Smoker save his heart for him.

Then why are you disagreeing on that then? Sounded like you were as I didn't say he didn't' lose to those guys, but just saying he will have importance and be stronger later in the series, not just EOS. Knowing Oda, losing a fight won't mean you are weakling or won't get stronger as that isn't how it works with him. I am just stating points, but you guys take offense too much on things when state something that I agree with you, but add logical conclusion. He isn't a weakling nor he won't be able to keep up later is what I am stating.

Legit no one was saying he won't be stronger later. Just now he's considered weak in the NW.

 

[kkck]

I honestly don't buy smoker having admiral potential in him. Smoker got to VA almost as a middle aged man. His haki came presumably not long after the timeskip started. Smoker certainly has room to grow but.... admiral seems like a huge stretch when the last thing we saw from him puts him beneath law or vergo, 2 people who were decidedly not even YC level. And not even top 3 yonko commanders... just YC in general.

Coby and helmepo have more potential than smoker and could actually reach admiral considering how weak they were when the series started and that 2 years after that they are competent haki users....