One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
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• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[McNuss]

Ace is as strong as Post-Skip Luffy but I am unsure which version.

 

[I Am Atomic]

Portgas D Ace was defeated in the battle with Blackbeard, then held in Impel Down’s deepest level all the time bound with Seastone built handcuffs. That should have spent whatever strength he might be holding. He died protecting Luffy.
Most of people believes that he was not all that strong because he died early in the series.
Let's start with his capabilities in this post.

Devil Fruit: Mera Mera no Mi
Mera Mera no Mi Jujika

Ace possessed a very great control over his Devil fruit just look at the versatility of his attacks, also when Ace was on Drum Island the town’s people told to Mugiwara pirates that it didn’t snow that whole day, which is odd because Drum Island is known for snowing every day, this symbolizes at Ace having awakened Devil Fruit abilities.

Physical Strength:
Van Augur states that still without his devil fruit Ace’s physical capabilities are formidable as expected from a Whitebeard Commander. Ace clashed off Jinbe for 5 days which is exceptionally physically powerful, showing Ace has absurd levels of stamina, only above tiers have been established to combat for days like Admirals and Yonkos etc despite Luffy’s prolonged fight has only been 12 hours or so.

Haki:
It’s been shown via the Ace novels that he could handle Armament Haki, which he awoke mid-fight next to a Vice-Admiral & it was powerful than the Vice-Admiral’s own Haki following only after awakening it, there’s no knowing how much stronger it would have gone after three years of New World fights. We now knew he had Conqueror’s Haki, which he roused as a Kid. In fact, his haki was so dominant in the Ace novel, when he steps onto the snow Island where Yonko Shanks is residing, Red Haired Yonko remarks “his haki is same as fire which is why the snow is melting on the island”.

Portgas D Ace Vs Admiral Sakazuki:
Ace Vs Akainu

Ace had been beaten regularly in Impel Down & was given limited to no food or water, therefore, he was not at his full potential.

With all the acts revealed above it’s safe to say that Ace is not so far behind those so-called Admirals, powerful enough to stop & injure an Admiral yet not defeat one. That’s the reason Ace had to be finished off, it’s because he’s extremely more capable than Luffy & he would have become the Pirate King if he touched his potential.

Credits: discovey diary

 

[jaymizzo]

Ace losing to BB, who can literally turn off your DF powers is not a knock on his strength at all. BB even acknowledged his strength.

Ace is like WB, the kind of person who will never walk away from a fight. Thinking about him always gets one emotional.

I really hope Sabo gets to wreck Akainu.

 

[Nie Li]

Devil Fruit: Mera Mera no Mi
Mera Mera no Mi Jujika

Ace possessed a very great control over his Devil fruit just look at the versatility of his attacks, also when Ace was on Drum Island the town’s people told to Mugiwara pirates that it didn’t snow that whole day, which is odd because Drum Island is known for snowing every day, this symbolizes at Ace having awakened Devil Fruit abilities.

I'll only comment on this small point. So far, affecting the environment around them is a common trait of some logia fruits, not of awakening. We still know nothing about logia awakened fruits, but awakened zoan and paramecias certainly aren't symbolized like that.

If it's later revealed to be related to awakened logias, then so be it, but it's unknown so far.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 18, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 18, 2020 ---

Ace losing to BB, who can literally turn off your DF powers is not a knock on his strength at all. BB even acknowledged his strength.

Ace is like WB, the kind of person who will never walk away from a fight. Thinking about him always gets one emotional.

I really hope Sabo gets to wreck Akainu.

BB's power of turning off DFs was only that intimidating pre-TS, now any single character with prominent haki would have dealt the same damage to Ace with CQC.

It's now very weird how Ace was "not used to being punched because he relied too much on his logia" if he's supposed to have been fighting pirates on the New World for some years.

Anyway, of course it's not a knock to be defeated by Blackbeard, the guy who scarred Shanks many years before he even ate the yami yami no mi and who soon after defeating Ace became a Yonko.

 

[I Am Atomic]

Ace losing to BB, who can literally turn off your DF powers is not a knock on his strength at all. BB even acknowledged his strength.

Definitely not! However we can form a powerscale. BB won against Ace, but him and his entire crew ran away from Akainu and one warship. Just shows how terrifying Akainu is.

I really hope Sabo gets to wreck Akainu.

Luffy and Sabo together would be perfect.

 

[jaymizzo]

BB's power of turning off DFs was only that intimidating pre-TS, now any single character with prominent haki would have dealt the same damage to Ace with CQC.

It's now very weird how Ace was "not used to being punched because he relied too much on his logia" if he's supposed to have been fighting pirates on the New World for some years.

Anyway, of course it's not a knock to be defeated by Blackbeard, the guy who scarred Shanks many years before he even ate the yami yami no mi and who soon after defeating Ace became a Yonko.

I thought Ace wasn't the type of Logia user who thought they were invincible. As @Barrier mentioned (I've never read the Ace novels, just forum translations), Ace had top tier Haki as well, he wasn't a slouch in any department. Top stamina, top DF ability, top attitude and a capable fighter. His story with WB was easily the best in the manga, two characters who could have easily been PK (one in the future) only interested in making the other the PK and dying together.

Anyhow, on whether Ace could take on an Admiral, its highly unlikely he would have defeated the OG admirals, these guys like the Yonko are freaks of nature. A high diff win for the Admirals maybe but pre TS power levels are difficult.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 18, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 18, 2020 ---

Luffy and Sabo together would be perfect.

The sadist in me wants Sabo as he seems capable of being extremely brutal. Genuinely been dreaming of Sabo taking his time to completely wreck Akainu and finishing him off with an attack like Burning Ace or something.

Would be poetic for the bros to avenge Ace though. So long as Akainu goes out in the most brutal fashion.

Edit: On why the BB Pirates fled Akainu, BB is quite a calculating villain, he is not going to risk silly loses for pride or to prove he is stunning and brave. He could probably give Akainu a decent fight, adding his crew would be a bit overkill. There was nothing for him to gain from fighting Akainu.

Hell, even when they attacked the revolutionaries, there was never mention of them actually fighting. They immediately fled when CP turned up IIRC. These guys are extreme opportunists.

 

[Nie Li]

I thought Ace wasn't the type of Logia user who thought they were invincible. As @Barrier mentioned (I've never read the Ace novels, just forum translations), Ace had top tier Haki as well, he wasn't a slouch in any department. Top stamina, top DF ability, top attitude and a capable fighter. His story with WB was easily the best in the manga, two characters who could have easily been PK (one in the future) only interested in making the other the PK and dying together.

Anyhow, on whether Ace could take on an Admiral, its highly unlikely he would have defeated the OG admirals, these guys like the Yonko are freaks of nature. A high diff win for the Admirals maybe but pre TS power levels are difficult.

Yeah, I agree that Ace was supposed to be a very well-rounded fighter and a proficient haki user. His strength alone was already superhuman when he was ten years old, which is why the Ace vs BB fight that we saw is weird now, along with BB's comments of how "It must have been a long time since Ace last received a hit". The darkness fruit is supposed to turn off DFs abilities, but it doesn't turn off his opponents' haki.

BB's darkness is still a useful skill, since it also draws his opponent in with gravity, it cannot be dodged using Katakuri's CoO trick (a trick also Akainu and Aokiji seem to use), but the way it allowed him to punch Ace is no different than any brawler haki user punching him.

I just think the fight is weird because of that, but it may simply because it was written before Oda thought of making haki such a common New World skill. I do think Ace is a YC-level beast,


Anyhow, why do you believe it would be a high-diff fight for an admiral? It's true that Ace was somewhat weakened because he was still bruised, but we saw he still had a lot of power left in him, and other level-6 prisoners like Crocodile were really just as strong as they were before becoming prisoners, despite having been in that cell far longer than him. It's not much of a justification for how fast Ace fell to Akainu. I think in a proper fight it would be a mid-dif at most for the admirals, if they're really near-yonko level.

However, while I was writing this I just realized that the way Ace fell so fast can be somewhat justified by him having to protect Luffy. It may be that Akainu's CoA + the destructivity of his magma fruit was too much for Ace to block, but under normal circumstances he might have just succesfully dodged it and fought back. His "never backing down" was, ironically, his downfall.

 

[jaymizzo]

Anyhow, why do you believe it would be a high-diff fight for an admiral? It's true that Ace was somewhat weakened because he was still bruised, but we saw he still had a lot of power left in him, and other level-6 prisoners like Crocodile were really just as strong as they were before becoming prisoners, despite having been in that cell far longer than him. It's not much of a justification for how fast Ace fell to Akainu. I think in a proper fight it would be a mid-dif at most for the admirals, if they're really near-yonko level.

However, while I was writing this I just realized that the way Ace fell so fast can be somewhat justified by him having to protect Luffy. It may be that Akainu's CoA + the destructivity of his magma fruit was too much for Ace to block, but under normal circumstances he might have just succesfully dodged it and fought back. His "never backing down" was, ironically, his downfall.

On BBs statement, it could be taken in another way that Ace is simply a very good fighter and doesn't necessarily get hit a lot because he is evasive. Its the same as Katakuri (before we learnt he manipulates his DF like a logia).

I think Ace was not only defeated and beaten physically in Impel down but he knew he was going to die and had already resigned himself to that fate. His story arc was pretty sad psychologically because he had not accepted that he was worthy of having lived until the very last moment. Even after being rescued.

On why I think it would have been a high diff fight for the OG admirals is that non of the WB commanders were slouches, BB and Akainu had a massive advantage over Ace yet he still gave the former a decent fight. In all honesty I don't have on panel proof to suggest my thinking process and its mostly a preference on how Id think the fight would play out and where I place Ace.

I think of the WB commanders showing in Marineford and since I believe he was one of the stronger commanders, see Marco and Vista being able to hold their own against Admirals (with less destructive abilities) and think Ace should be able to do significantly better as he is geared for combat.

You can call it headcannon tbf.

Edit: On Akainu vs Ace, I think that was pretty established that Aces attitude would lead to his downfall (as foreshadowed by Shanks). Akainu also has a significant advantage over Ace. Its weird, you thinking that Ace could have dodged that and now upon rethinking, realizing that even though it was plot armour, Akainu managed to survive getting ragdolled by WB, Im not sure how much Ace could have actually done to Akainu.

 

[Nie Li]

On BBs statement, it could be taken in another way that Ace is simply a very good fighter and doesn't necessarily get hit a lot because he is evasive. Its the same as Katakuri (before we learnt he manipulates his DF like a logia).

I think Ace was not only defeated and beaten physically in Impel down but he knew he was going to die and had already resigned himself to that fate. His story arc was pretty sad psychologically because he had not accepted that he was worthy of having lived until the very last moment. Even after being rescued.

On why I think it would have been a high diff fight for the OG admirals is that non of the WB commanders were slouches, BB and Akainu had a massive advantage over Ace yet he still gave the former a decent fight. In all honesty I don't have on panel proof to suggest my thinking process and its mostly a preference on how Id think the fight would play out and where I place Ace.

I think of the WB commanders showing in Marineford and since I believe he was one of the stronger commanders, see Marco and Vista being able to hold their own against Admirals (with less destructive abilities) and think Ace should be able to do significantly better as he is geared for combat.

You can call it headcannon tbf.

Edit: On Akainu vs Ace, I think that was pretty established that Aces attitude would lead to his downfall (as foreshadowed by Shanks). Akainu also has a significant advantage over Ace. Its weird, you thinking that Ace could have dodged that and now upon rethinking, realizing that even though it was plot armour, Akainu managed to survive getting ragdolled by WB, Im not sure how much Ace could have actually done to Akainu.

I can accept that interpretation of BB's words. Ace might have been used to dodging even CoA attacks but the darkness' power of suction made those punches undodgeable.

I don't think Ace could have beaten Akainu in a fair fight, since Ace was still no Yonko, but I now hypothesize that he could have given him a longer fight had he not had to shield Luffy and take the punch. The circumstances of the fight make it so it's not entirely fair to judge how fast it ended as if it was a proper duel. That being said, I don't know if he could have actually hurt Akainu since Akainu was able to dodge Vista and Marco simultaneously. And that speaks volumes of Akainu's CoO.

Ranking Ace between other commanders is hard, since there were like 16 of them. He should definitely be among the strongest. I could argue that Marco was likely the strongest commander, thus stronger than Ace, but I also lack proof to defend the point.

 

[M3J]

I agree with you on this.

Ace matched one attack from Aokiji, but we also saw how Ace lasted seconds against Akainu, while Aokiji lasted a week against the same guy. So it's only obvious that while Ace can stop a single long-range attack from Aokiji, he would also only last seconds if Aokiji went for the kill the way Akainu did.

Still, Ace should have been high YC level for Whitebeard's crew to make sense, so it's not like he was weak in any possible way, and he certainly was one of the coolest characters that have ever appeared on this manga.

It's not like they were fighting to the death though, and it took Ace taking Luffy's hit for Akainu to win. Though in the end, I'd say Ace would lose to Akainu, and he probably wouldn't last as long as Aokiji did or even as long as he would if he fought Aokiji.

 

[slavkovski]

Physical Strength:
Van Augur states that still without his devil fruit Ace’s physical capabilities are formidable as expected from a Whitebeard Commander. Ace clashed off Jinbe for 5 days which is exceptionally physically powerful, showing Ace has absurd levels of stamina, only above tiers have been established to combat for days like Admirals and Yonkos etc despite Luffy’s prolonged fight has only been 12 hours or so.

Haki:
It’s been shown via the Ace novels that he could handle Armament Haki, which he awoke mid-fight next to a Vice-Admiral & it was powerful than the Vice-Admiral’s own Haki following only after awakening it, there’s no knowing how much stronger it would have gone after three years of New World fights. We now knew he had Conqueror’s Haki, which he roused as a Kid. In fact, his haki was so dominant in the Ace novel, when he steps onto the snow Island where Yonko Shanks is residing, Red Haired Yonko remarks “his haki is same as fire which is why the snow is melting on the island”.

I have some suspicion about the fight between ace vs jinbei, we now know who is jinbei that he is a kind person, i somewhat thingking that jinbei in that fight arent fighting that all out and he maybe hold him self and doesnt fight to kill ace, but ace in the other hand..

About the 2nd part, i dont ever remember ace are shown to used armament haki, could someone like tell me in which chapter in the manga that shown this?

Btw.. Joining the Whitebeard pirates could be kind of weakening for an upcoming pirates to become stronger, and Ace Whitebeard pirates symbol are shown really big in his back, i mean, there is rarely people who want to fight the WB pirates so if Ace maybe meet someone quite strong and could be beneficial for him to fight that guy maybe that guy dont want to fight him due to his fear of the whole WB pirates crew.. Do you think if ace appear in dressrosa when doflamingo still there, doflamingo would dare to fight him?

 

[I Am Atomic]

About the 2nd part, i dont ever remember ace are shown to used armament haki, could someone like tell me in which chapter in the manga that shown this?

It's from Ace Novel, written by Eiichiro Oda and Shou Hinata. You can either buy the copy to read it (think it's available in English) or read a fan translation here.
Also, there is summarised version on Sandman's Twitter I believe.

 

[Nie Li]

It's from Ace Novel, written by Eiichiro Oda and Shou Hinata. You can either buy the copy to read it (think it's available in English) or read a fan translation here.
Also, there is summarised version on Sandman's Twitter I believe.

A little bit off-topic but, for those interested in the novel, a manga spin-off adaptation just started serialization three days ago, drawn by Dr. Stone's mangaka. I don't know if it's being scanlated but, being One Piece related, I bet it will be soon.

 

[albertwv]

Ace vs Aokiji was just a clash nothing else. There's no manga evidence that Aokiji > Ace, but we can infer that since Aokiji = Akainu, with Akainu winning after a long difficult battle then Aokiji > Ace. It surprised me to know that Aokiji lasted that long vs Akainu. Would Ace have lasted that long? Doubt it.

Ace was strong as Jimbei but I dont think they are both YC3. Ace was still considered a rookie in the WB pirates, he was probably stronger than the rest of the unnamed WB Commanders but when it came down to Marco, Jozu, Vista, and maybe Thatch then Ace would lose.
I even think Dressrosa G4 Luffy could defeat Ace. I dont see Jimbei or Ace defeating Doffy or Cracker.

 

[goldb]

A little bit off-topic but, for those interested in the novel, a manga spin-off adaptation just started serialization three days ago, drawn by Dr. Stone's mangaka. I don't know if it's being scanlated but, being One Piece related, I bet it will be soon.

It's already been released, you can discuss and view some pages for it HERE. One of the posts has a link to a preview of the chapter.

About Ace, I think his encounter with Aokiji had created this misconception that they are somewhat equal. I guess in the moment, even I considered that a fact but @eefrit summed it up pretty well in his post, so I won't add too much. What I will say is that even though we know Admirals are strong because of their *rank*, I think we forget that Marines are trained fighters; those that make it to the elite officer positions have inate fighting abilities besides (in this case) their devil fruit abilities, haki/rokushiki that is added later.

Ace's strength and how we should view him was captured pretty well by Akainu himself, he's physically strong but overconfident because of his devil fruit ability. Against an admiral, they'd outlast him. Even Aokiji whose abilities cancel out one another.

 

[King Moe]

Looking at Ace, doesn't seem like he was that far above even with his bounty it shows and don't know how effective his Haki was as it didn't seem to be enough he can damage or use to block away attacks like Akainu gave to him, so think he was not as so above and growing in his power.

Also Fujitora is more powerful than he looks and probably could destroy planet with gathering large enough Meteorite or at least he doesn't take away force of the crashing impact since Gravity can be quite OP just like that. Think he is usually holds back given people are around, so he can't go on destroying whole island and affecting innocent lives in the process, so he probably make sure to hold back his power when in fighting even with serious foes.

Let's see how he does when he is truly by himself with no one around as I feel it be much different on how he will use his powers overall.

 

[Pirate Queen]

It's already been released, you can discuss and view some pages for it HERE. One of the posts has a link to a preview of the chapter.

About Ace, I think his encounter with Aokiji had created this misconception that they are somewhat equal. I guess in the moment, even I considered that a fact but @eefrit summed it up pretty well in his post, so I won't add too much. What I will say is that even though we know Admirals are strong because of their *rank*, I think we forget that Marines are trained fighters; those that make it to the elite officer positions have inate fighting abilities besides (in this case) their devil fruit abilities, haki/rokushiki that is added later.

Ace's strength and how we should view him was captured pretty well by Akainu himself, he's physically strong but overconfident because of his devil fruit ability. Against an admiral, they'd outlast him. Even Aokiji whose abilities cancel out one another.

I dont think anyone is under the misconception that Ace can fight an Admiral equally. Its is whether Aokiji could easily overwhelm him... at what difficulty can Aokiji defeat him in a one on one.

And DF advantage/disadvantage matter in this case. Their elements cancel eachother out. It was be harder for Aokiji to defeat Ace than Akainu because there was a clear DF superiority situation going on.

Aokiji doesn't have such an advantage.

 

[albertwv]

I dont think anyone is under the misconception that Ace can fight an Admiral equally. Its is whether Aokiji could easily overwhelm him... at what difficulty can Aokiji defeat him in a one on one.

And DF advantage/disadvantage matter in this case. Their elements cancel eachother out. It was be harder for Aokiji to defeat Ace than Akainu because there was a clear DF superiority situation going on.

Aokiji doesn't have such an advantage.

Aokiji doesn't need an advantage to defeat Ace. Their clash doesnt mean anything to Aokji. If Aokiji had gone full serious mode he would've eventually defeated Ace. Of course im not saying Aokiji easily overwhelmed Ace but in the long run he would. Ace is still a rookie to Aokiji. If Aokiji was able to last 10 days vs Akainu (someone who is above Ace) then he could outlast and defeat Ace.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Aokiji doesn't need an advantage to defeat Ace. Their clash doesnt mean anything to Aokji. If Aokiji had gone full serious mode he would've eventually defeated Ace. Of course im not saying Aokiji easily overwhelmed Ace but in the long run he would. Ace is still a rookie to Aokiji. If Aokiji was able to last 10 days vs Akainu (someone who is above Ace) then he could outlast and defeat Ace.

The only part where I disagree with you is that your saying Aokiji wasn't serious... what? Thats just not true. Your mean to tell me that the marines were on the verge of FAILING to kill Ace and Aokini just half assed went after Ace?

That is just baseless.

 

[goldb]

I dont think anyone is under the misconception that Ace can fight an Admiral equally. Its is whether Aokiji could easily overwhelm him... at what difficulty can Aokiji defeat him in a one on one.

And DF advantage/disadvantage matter in this case. Their elements cancel eachother out. It was be harder for Aokiji to defeat Ace than Akainu because there was a clear DF superiority situation going on.

Aokiji doesn't have such an advantage.

If their devil fruit abilities evens itself out, then the physical attributes such as haki and rokushiki then come into play, as I wrote previously.

It'd be a fight that after stubbornly trying to one up each other with their devil fruits( like we actually saw at Marineford), would resort to hand to hand combat, seeing as neither of them use non-elemental weapons. In that respect then at whatever difficulty, I think Aokiji would come out on top. His durability feats are greater than Ace's against an opponent who defeated him. I don't see it going anywhere near the amount of days that Akainu/Aokiji went to either.

That's not dismissive of Ace at all, many characters vouch for his abilities but I'd find it hard to choose him in a fight against any admiral, at least the original 3.