One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Nie Li]

Yep definitely dropped the ball on this one. Originally, I thought Kyoshiro would end up being Zoro's opponent since he seemed to be strong, and was on the enemies side. When the opponent started seeming like King, I was like well he has a sword, maybe he'll be a swordsman but now that we've seen his sword is a comb (???) I've all but given up that Zoro will get a swordsman vs swordsman fight before Mihawk.

Don't lose hope as long as Shiryu's around.

 

[kkck]

That's how bad wano has been and how few shits oda has given about developing the strawhats. We are in motherfucking wano and zoro's samurai headcount, in spite of there being an entire country's worth of samuria enemies, is zero. Zoro will walk out of wano without having defeated a single samurai. Because oda for some reason made non scabbard samurai to be garbage that got off handedly defeated in a few frames... And this considering zoro is still one of the strawhats that has gotten the most development in the new world...

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Don't lose hope as long as Shiryu's around.

True I forgot about Shiryu. He definitely seems to be an interesting match up for a swordsman, especially now that he is invisible. I'm trying to imagine how would Zoro or any swordsman deal with him if he kept the blade of his sword invisible but not the his body. Haki has shown the ability to sense living things but can anyone use haki to actually counter invisible weapons?

 

[albertwv]

Samurai in Wano were supposedly feared but in today's era, they are wack. Outside of the Scabbards who are not even that powerful outside of a few, the Wano Samurai are weak.
Remember that Hotei from the Mimawhatever, he seemed promising but then powered up roshi hyogoro defeated him in one slash. Booooring. Why introduce him show him to be somewhat capable but then lose in one single panel. The 4/5 yakuza bosses have bad designs that show no promise, they have done nothing in the war except get in the way. Waste of panels again.
I was expecting Orochi to be a strong and decent looking Shogun who defeated Oden but Oda pulled a 180 and made him a terrible character design and physically weak, what a waste of a great mythical zoan DF.
Now the Oniwanwhatever and Raizo, even Naruto had better ninjas (of course), have terrible designs and another waste of panels and chapters. Fukurokuju seems strong but seeing how every Wano villain has been handled, I have lost interest in his and Raizos fight.

Oda really dropped the ball on all the villains of Wano, he's never done this before except Wholecake island. When Oda first introduced Jack and the Beast Pirates, my god were they worthy of praise, well only Jack. But now seeing them in Wano, the gifters are an ugly joke. the FLying 6, pathetic, CP9 were better than them. Oda introduced way too many characters in this island that really have no business but to waste panels that can be used instead for actual fights that shouldnt be off screened.
Whatever happened to those named less samurai who were shown looking at the night crane message at the capitol who were arrested but seem to have been set free later, they have not even been shown in the fight. Oda wasted panels on them.

 

[kkck]

Overall the beast pirates seem so weak that it's amazing kaido is even regarded as a yonko. I could see kaido defeating linlin in a fight but crew to crew big mom would easily rolftomp kaido's pathetic excuse for underlings in no time. I can even picture the calamities defeating the sweet commanders but big mom would easily overpower the topo robi with rooks and fighters, no need to even bring out her stronger children. To rub it in even more, not one number so far has had anything resembling an iota of relevance. All of them were basically off handedly one shot by some asshole who barely tried or another.

 

[M3J]

Wasn't it said somewhere that while Kaidou and Big MOm were similar in power, Big Mom's crew was superior to Kaidou's?

 

[kkck]

Wasn't it said somewhere that while Kaidou and Big MOm were similar in power, Big Mom's crew was superior to Kaidou's?

IIRC there was a book that said big mom had the strongest family or something to that effect. Though I don't recall the details. And still, overall you'd expect the yonko to be more or less comparable in terms of military might. But kaido just doesn't hold up to big mom's forces in general.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Wasn't it said somewhere that while Kaidou and Big MOm were similar in power, Big Mom's crew was superior to Kaidou's?

IIRC there was a book that said big mom had the strongest family or something to that effect. Though I don't recall the details. And still, overall you'd expect the yonko to be more or less comparable in terms of military might. But kaido just doesn't hold up to big mom's forces in general.

I think it might be skewed by two things
I think kaido army and fighters are actually comparable
The Strawhats have just gotten much more poweful , their alliance is significantly more powerful than the fighting force luffy took to WCI
If the alliance faced big mum and her crew , they’d still win
Big mum army wouldn’t be able to handle Luffy + Marco + 9 scabbards + Yamato + Law + Zoro + sanji + Strawhats + kidd + killer either

 

[kkck]

I think it might be skewed by two things
I think kaido army and fighters are actually comparable
The Strawhats have just gotten much more poweful , their alliance is significantly more powerful than the fighting force luffy took to WCI
If the alliance faced big mum and her crew , they’d still win
Big mum army wouldn’t be able to handle Luffy + Marco + 9 scabbards + Yamato + Law + Zoro + sanji + Strawhats + kidd + killer either

TBH I don't see the alliance winning against the big mom pirates. Officer to officer the alliance is massively outnumbered. Since you included luffy there the big mom pirates big names would be:

- Big mom
- Katakuri
- Smoothie
- Cracker
- Perospero
- Snack
- Oven
- Daifuku
- Compote
- Smoothie's sisters appear to be capable fighters at least
- Tamago
- Pekoms
- Bobin
- Streusen

Even outside of those you had plenty of people who were able to keep up with sanji in the air... And even then there are over 40-50 of big mom's progeny left who are shown to be capable fighters. And even then you still have rooks, fighters and bishops... And her actual army of homies and other foot soldiers. Meanwhile the bulk of kaido's power is concentrated on a group as pathetic as the topo robi. You could also count bege and jinbe in this group depending of what section of the manga you consider...

 

[HereNThere]

The Alliance does have a decent amount of quality compared to Kaido's quantity, but the plot is heavily in their favor, obviously, just like in WCI.

The Beast Pirates have a ton of things that should make them nigh impossible to beat, but since Oda basically saved everything for this moment, they didn't get any time to shine at all. I was thinking about this a couple of days ago, but Oda really should've been weaving in their threat level early on in Dressrosa. Like, one of the Flying Six should've been on the island keeping an eye on Doffy to make sure he didn't screw anything else up after that Punk Hazard fiasco.

Have one of them take part in the tournament because they're bored and loses on purpose against someone decently powerful or something. Show that Doffy is cocky, but still a bit wary of him as he might be troublesome or something. That way we get at least an idea of the threat level of the people in Kaido's crew.

Gifters should also have been a much bigger deal, power-wise, but Oda's kinda skipped over a lot of them before going straight to the Tama Plot Convenience. Like, we had a whole bunch of flying Gifters that were blocking Zoro's path to the Roof, and they just up and disappeared. They spent most of the earlier part of the war in the background, with some being taken out, but the moment Oda really got them ready to deal some damage to the Alliance en masse, that's when Tama ordered them to switch sides.

Don't even get me started on the Numbers who have all literally been one shot, which is, frankly, ridiculous given that Oda keeps hyping Giants up to be a major asset.

Then we have Kaido's penchant for forcibly recruiting up-and-coming talent and their crews that should've been more relevant.

They have everything that makes them imposing on paper, they just weren't allowed to show any of it because we're at a point where the Crew needs to basically take down a Yonkou for the story to continue.

Anyway, as for the topic, I think their crews really would be more equal than we think. Big Mom probably has a few more high-quality folks underneath the Sweet Commanders, but I imagine with the Gifters, Kaido has more high-quality fodder than Big Mom.

 

[kkck]

The Alliance does have a decent amount of quality compared to Kaido's quantity, but the plot is heavily in their favor, obviously, just like in WCI.

The Beast Pirates have a ton of things that should make them nigh impossible to beat, but since Oda basically saved everything for this moment, they didn't get any time to shine at all. I was thinking about this a couple of days ago, but Oda really should've been weaving in their threat level early on in Dressrosa. Like, one of the Flying Six should've been on the island keeping an eye on Doffy to make sure he didn't screw anything else up after that Punk Hazard fiasco.

Have one of them take part in the tournament because they're bored and loses on purpose against someone decently powerful or something. Show that Doffy is cocky, but still a bit wary of him as he might be troublesome or something. That way we get at least an idea of the threat level of the people in Kaido's crew.

Gifters should also have been a much bigger deal, power-wise, but Oda's kinda skipped over a lot of them before going straight to the Tama Plot Convenience. Like, we had a whole bunch of flying Gifters that were blocking Zoro's path to the Roof, and they just up and disappeared. They spent most of the earlier part of the war in the background, with some being taken out, but the moment Oda really got them ready to deal some damage to the Alliance en masse, that's when Tama ordered them to switch sides.

Don't even get me started on the Numbers who have all literally been one shot, which is, frankly, ridiculous given that Oda keeps hyping Giants up to be a major asset.

Then we have Kaido's penchant for forcibly recruiting up-and-coming talent and their crews that should've been more relevant.

They have everything that makes them imposing on paper, they just weren't allowed to show any of it because we're at a point where the Crew needs to basically take down a Yonkou for the story to continue.

Anyway, as for the topic, I think their crews really would be more equal than we think. Big Mom probably has a few more high-quality folks underneath the Sweet Commanders, but I imagine with the Gifters, Kaido has more high-quality fodder than Big Mom.

I mean, a flying six keeping his eye on doffy... For that to be even remotely threatening the flying six would have had to be a threat to doflamingo himself. But from the looks of it the flying six would not really put up a fight against him in general. I am skeptical of the flying six against doflamingos executives even... Anything less than jack would have been weird given how the flying six developed. The problem here is that the flying six were ultimately weak. Hence them falling like flies to people like franky or robin. Of course, big mom could have sent his 6th strongest to put pressure on doffy and it would have been entirely believable when doflamingo shits his pants.

 

[hokageji]

how would the BMP lineup against the BP one on one?

Katakuri vs King
Smoothie vs Queen
Cracker vs Jack
which completes the sweet commanders vs the all stars

Would be interesting to see... and Smoothie vs Queen will show us the thin Queen we've seen from SBS..

Tobi Roppo vs the officers
Ranking the top 6 officers from BMP
Perospero,
Snack
Daifuku
Owen
Amande
galette
We can probably swap Galette with Tamago and have them face off with Tobi Roppo....

and considering that the other officers are also quite strong, BMP seem to easily outnumber beast pirates in battle. The numbers may change things

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

at full strength with allies , the beast pirates hhave
kaido
yamato*
king
queem
jack
apoo
hawkins
numbers
tobbi roppo
the orochi samurais
headliners , gifters and rest of the army
doflamingo
doflmingo family

 

[M3J]

IIRC there was a book that said big mom had the strongest family or something to that effect. Though I don't recall the details. And still, overall you'd expect the yonko to be more or less comparable in terms of military might. But kaido just doesn't hold up to big mom's forces in general.

I think Kaidou could be superior to Big Mom but while her crew is superior to his, which would make the victory not worth it.

I think it might be skewed by two things
I think kaido army and fighters are actually comparable
The Strawhats have just gotten much more poweful , their alliance is significantly more powerful than the fighting force luffy took to WCI
If the alliance faced big mum and her crew , they’d still win
Big mum army wouldn’t be able to handle Luffy + Marco + 9 scabbards + Yamato + Law + Zoro + sanji + Strawhats + kidd + killer either

Oh I'm not going by the Alliance's performance as to which crew is superior, I'm just going solely by what I remember reading about the two emperors' crews somewhere.

 

[Monox D. I-Fly]

When the opponent started seeming like King, I was like well he has a sword, maybe he'll be a swordsman but now that we've seen his sword is a comb (???)

Arlong's sword is also a comb.

 

[albertwv]

The Beasts Pirates were overhyped since PH. With CC mentioning a Yonko crew has over 500 Smile Zoan DFs in their army, and at that time they looked ferocious and Oda shouldve stuck with that design. He made the Gifters look like a joke, SMH. Jack's introduction and time in Zou was amazing and honestly made me wonder just how the SHs were going to defeat Kaido.
The idea that a Flying 6 shouldve been at Dressrosa overseeing Doffy is a good one and I like it, maybe Page One shouldve been there at the Colosseum. Sabo couldve fought him as well.
I dont bother counting Yamato as part of the crew.
The Numbers just like the rest of the BP had a scary introduction, but seeing them in action, even Oars who was compared to them seem stronger.
Gifters as I said before are a joke and even the Headliner Gifters. The only strong headliners are Hawkins Apoo and Flying 6.
The Calamities...honestly were overhyped, I am sensing the same pattern is going to befall them as the gifters, flying 6, and numbers had. OF course they are going to be defeated by the SHs, naturally, but we may not see an explosive battle we had hoped to see from all the Beasts Pirate top officers. So I won't be surprised if Zolo one slashes King in the next 2 chapters or if Inu barks at Jack and defeats him in 1 chapter.
The thing is we've seen how long it took Luffy to fight Doffy, Cracker, and Dogtooth. It took him hours. So naturally I expect both Zolo and Sanji to take hours to defeat King and Queen.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Arlong's sword is also a comb.

Ah the famed Kiribachi

At least we are getting an interesting weapon out of King.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Samurai in Wano were supposedly feared but in today's era, they are wack. Outside of the Scabbards who are not even that powerful outside of a few, the Wano Samurai are weak.
Remember that Hotei from the Mimawhatever, he seemed promising but then powered up roshi hyogoro defeated him in one slash. Booooring. Why introduce him show him to be somewhat capable but then lose in one single panel. The 4/5 yakuza bosses have bad designs that show no promise, they have done nothing in the war except get in the way. Waste of panels again.
I was expecting Orochi to be a strong and decent looking Shogun who defeated Oden but Oda pulled a 180 and made him a terrible character design and physically weak, what a waste of a great mythical zoan DF.
Now the Oniwanwhatever and Raizo, even Naruto had better ninjas (of course), have terrible designs and another waste of panels and chapters. Fukurokuju seems strong but seeing how every Wano villain has been handled, I have lost interest in his and Raizos fight.

Oda really dropped the ball on all the villains of Wano, he's never done this before except Wholecake island. When Oda first introduced Jack and the Beast Pirates, my god were they worthy of praise, well only Jack. But now seeing them in Wano, the gifters are an ugly joke. the FLying 6, pathetic, CP9 were better than them. Oda introduced way too many characters in this island that really have no business but to waste panels that can be used instead for actual fights that shouldnt be off screened.
Whatever happened to those named less samurai who were shown looking at the night crane message at the capitol who were arrested but seem to have been set free later, they have not even been shown in the fight. Oda wasted panels on them.

There’s been a lot of clunky writing in regards to wano (oden being ridiculously stupid at times )
But like I said wano had been subjugated for ages with a lot of the strong people being killed off who would challenge kaido , and orochi
Daimyos and lot of guys got killed off if they didn’t now

Overall the beast pirates seem so weak that it's amazing kaido is even regarded as a yonko. I could see kaido defeating linlin in a fight but crew to crew big mom would easily rolftomp kaido's pathetic excuse for underlings in no time. I can even picture the calamities defeating the sweet commanders but big mom would easily overpower the topo robi with rooks and fighters, no need to even bring out her stronger children. To rub it in even more, not one number so far has had anything resembling an iota of relevance. All of them were basically off handedly one shot by some asshole who barely tried or another.

Again that wouldn’t be the case I do think Oda wrote big mum crew more menacing but once again WCI was essentially an against all odds heist against a much weaker fighting force while the current battle is an all out war against more evenly matched forces

agreed on the Tobi roppo and numbers , Oda hyped them a bit too much and under delivered ( minus ulti and maybe page one to me ) x drake probably strong as hell but he’s betrayed them
Also the gifters and a lot of headliners being underwhelming is disappointing
Heck apoo and Hawkins been some of the better performers even

 

[afromarco005]

Don't lose hope as long as Shiryu's around.

After King and knowing how BB crew works I doubt that Shiryu is a swordsman.

Now Zoro vs Shanks is something I would LOVE to see!

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 1, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 1, 2021 ---

Overall the beast pirates seem so weak that it's amazing kaido is even regarded as a yonko. I could see kaido defeating linlin in a fight but crew to crew big mom would easily rolftomp kaido's pathetic excuse for underlings in no time. I can even picture the calamities defeating the sweet commanders but big mom would easily overpower the topo robi with rooks and fighters, no need to even bring out her stronger children. To rub it in even more, not one number so far has had anything resembling an iota of relevance. All of them were basically off handedly one shot by some asshole who barely tried or another.

This is why Kaido is actively trying to recruit strong allies instead of killing them right away, his crew is weak.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Kaido is confirmed as the strongest creature in the vivre card

also of all Tobi roppo , ulti probably the most impressive combat wise