One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Tbf at marineford we also had a slightly compromised WB crew
No thatch ace or Blackbeard ( he might have hidden his ambitions but ace thought he was strong enough to be the division 2 commander )
Crew had lost some significant fighters

 

[Nie Li]

This is hilarious close to delirious. Take away titles from WSM, WSC and Yonko, yet we still have extremely powerful figures who can solo Yonko crews by themselves. Look at how Kaido practically solo'd a few YC1-3 level pirates. YET, Kizaru, Aokiji, and Akainu were not able to do so so easily, in Aokiji's case, he was able to catch Jozu off guard and freeze him.

1- Marco is as tricky to finish off for any Yonkou just as he was for Aokiji, that's just how his DF is. Jozu seems to be a special kind of tank that's also capable of speedblitzing good CoO users. In general, WB's crew seems to have some amazing YCs, and I'm including Vista here, who was capable to spar with Mihawk for a bit. As his own vivre card put it, that was very impressive on his part.

2- I didn't see WB mow down the admirals either exactly. If anything, Aokiji and Kizaru were pretty cool around WB during their brief exchanges.

Akainu vs WB Pirates was not even shown the entire outcome, we only saw him take down one WB Commander who was pretty weak himself, Curiel. We didnt see Akainu fight/defeat Marco or Vista.
Mihawk was hands full dealing with Vista, and both we're not even going 100%.

We weren't shown the outcome, but we were shown the pirate side's attitude at the thought of facing a badly injured Akainu all together.

Mihawk chilling with Vista is going to haunt him to hell, isn't it? Like Doflamingo chilling with Crocodile right besides them. Now imagine a Doflamingo that actually wanted to defeat or kill Crocodile actually trying to do so. A much different fight that would be, wouldn't it?

The Vista point is so bad yet it can be sustained simply because we have never seen Mihawk try at anything and he's still barely got any "screentime" at all. Imagine the only stuff we got from Big Mom was her during the first half of the Onigashima raid. She would be mocked down to Jinbe's and Robin's level because of the way they clowned her.

Whitebeard walking into Marineford alone. Okay, say he wasnt there to save Ace. Just him alone would wreck the whole island and all off the admirals. Whitebeard was holding ALOT back because of his crew and because of Ace.

The point you make about Whitebeard holding back to not destroy everything can just as easily be made for the admirals defending the most important Marine landmark (at the time) and everyone else on it.

Yet you think Mihawk can do all this. When the Marines who know of his strength have sent a fleet to deal with him alone, yet they needed all the warlords and admirals and 100,000 elite marines to deal with one Yonko and his crew.

The marines have sent a fleet with their new pacifista models that they think they can also use to take down the Yonkous and possibly an admiral. Don't forget the bolded part. The marines are disbanding the Shichibukai because they don't think they need them anymore to fight the Yonkous.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 2, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 2, 2021 ---

Tbf at marineford we also had a slightly compromised WB crew
No thatch ace or Blackbeard ( he might have hidden his ambitions but ace thought he was strong enough to be the division 2 commander )
Crew had lost some significant fighters

How do we know Thatch was that strong? Honest question in case it was written in some novel or something. Whitebeard's divisions didn't appear to be numbered in strength order.

 

[Monox D. I-Fly]

Yet you think Mihawk can do all this. When the Marines who know of his strength have sent a fleet to deal with him alone, yet they needed all the warlords and admirals and 100,000 elite marines to deal with one Yonko and his crew.

I wouldn't trust the judgement of Marine who sent Coby to capture Hancock. If anything, Coby should be sent to Buggy instead (not to mention Oda could make Coby face off with Alvida).

 

[M3J]

This is hilarious close to delirious. Take away titles from WSM, WSC and Yonko, yet we still have extremely powerful figures who can solo Yonko crews by themselves. Look at how Kaido practically solo'd a few YC1-3 level pirates. YET, Kizaru, Aokiji, and Akainu were not able to do so so easily, in Aokiji's case, he was able to catch Jozu off guard and freeze him.
Akainu vs WB Pirates was not even shown the entire outcome, we only saw him take down one WB Commander who was pretty weak himself, Curiel. We didnt see Akainu fight/defeat Marco or Vista.
Mihawk was hands full dealing with Vista, and both we're not even going 100%.

Whitebeard walking into Marineford alone. Okay, say he wasnt there to save Ace. Just him alone would wreck the whole island and all off the admirals. Whitebeard was holding ALOT back because of his crew and because of Ace.

Yet you think Mihawk can do all this. When the Marines who know of his strength have sent a fleet to deal with him alone, yet they needed all the warlords and admirals and 100,000 elite marines to deal with one Yonko and his crew.

I don't think you can use the admirals performance against Marco and probably Jozu to determine their strength, given Jozu's defense and Marco's ability to heal if he can't dodge attacks. Vista also seems to be on a high enough level that Mihawk acknowledges him.

 

[Fourofjacks]

Oda and Zoro themselves. Using a sword =/= a swordsman in One Piece. Thank you Oda.

To me oda made it clear Zoro, as a swordsman will do whatever it takes to win. He will bite if he has to, that doesn't make him not a swordsman.

I wrote previously about someone else mentioning kaido switching his club for a sword. In your view of a swordsman what does kaido need to do to be considered a swordsman in your definition. If he swings a sword like a club for the next 10 years defeating millions only with sword attacks - is he a swordsman? Does he need to train to be considered a swordsman?

open question to anyone that doesn't think big mum or king are swordsmen. I expect people will have different views.

Does big mum being a swordsman mean the WSS is stronger than her? Could be, or maybe she just never bothered dueling for the title. Quite possibly whitebeard was not the world's strongest man in his condition at marineford, yet that was his title still.

 

[AmitDS]

To me oda made it clear Zoro, as a swordsman will do whatever it takes to win. He will bite if he has to, that doesn't make him not a swordsman.

I wrote previously about someone else mentioning kaido switching his club for a sword. In your view of a swordsman what does kaido need to do to be considered a swordsman in your definition. If he swings a sword like a club for the next 10 years defeating millions only with sword attacks - is he a swordsman? Does he need to train to be considered a swordsman?

open question to anyone that doesn't think big mum or king are swordsmen. I expect people will have different views.

Does big mum being a swordsman mean the WSS is stronger than her? Could be, or maybe she just never bothered dueling for the title. Quite possibly whitebeard was not the world's strongest man in his condition at marineford, yet that was his title still.

No thanks. I'm fine. I don't need your rationalization. Point is, King not relying on standard techniques/styles and resorting to hand to hand while fighting too made Zoro state that he wasn't a swordsman. Do with that what you will.

 

[HereNThere]

At this point, I think we've had our yearly fill on Rule #6 as a topic seeing as how, once again, we've gotten nowhere since Mihawk had yet to actually do anything still.

 

[Fourofjacks]

No thanks. I'm fine. I don't need your rationalization. Point is, King not relying on standard techniques/styles and resorting to hand to hand while fighting too made Zoro state that he wasn't a swordsman. Do with that what you will.

Thought that scenario would simplify defining what a swordsman is, but I guess it is pretty hard to quantify what a swordsman. Can see that there's many different views what is or isn't a swordsman.

King flying around fighting as a dinosaur, conjuring flames / shooting fireballs should have been a clue king doesn't just attack with swords. Zoro only made his statement in response to king saying anything goes in a fight, to which Zoro agrees. To me that was the main point of that exchange.

We know Zoro has kicked and punched people before. And against killer it was more important to his style / strength to hold three weapons than it is for him to use swords. There isn't any question Zoro is a swordsman even though he will do whatever it takes to win, use whatever weapons sword or not.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Seems Yamato cuffs had some sea stone in them
She was tying with ace despite being slightly weakened

also killer attacks are sonic based could harm kaido internally

 

[LaGOAT]

It has been revealed viva a vivre card info T6 bounties

Character rewards revealed:

King's Bounty is 1.39 billion
Whos who Bounty is 546 million
Sasaki's Bounty is 472 million
Black Maria Bounty is 480 million
Ulti's Bounty is 400 million
Page One's Bounty is 290 million

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 1, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 1, 2021 ---

It was also mentioned that all T6 are capable of COO and COA

What was Marco and queens?

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

What was Marco and queens?

1.375 and 1.34 respectively
Makes sense the calamities are the most destructive of the crew me thinks

 

[LadyVados]

No thanks. I'm fine. I don't need your rationalization. Point is, King not relying on standard techniques/styles and resorting to hand to hand while fighting too made Zoro state that he wasn't a swordsman. Do with that what you will.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 2, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 2, 2021 ---

Anyway King having a higher bounty than Marco is Oda’s way of telling us that he’s stronger than him. Which he means he should be around Big Mom’s level

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 2, 2021 ---

Yea Oda IMO is inconsistent with this. Or is way to vague with how much effort is going into attacks; How much someone is holding back..etc

The Rooftop fight was Dope. The effort The Yonkou’s were putting in seemed as if they were fighting partially seriously; Even then The Supernova had 1 highlight who defeated a Vc1, everyone else is under him, yet they have withstood several blows, with Zoro doing the most…

One who beat a Vc1, another who is in the process of beating one

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 2, 2021 ---

The strawhat grand fleet? Oda has zero time for meaningful character development. The only character who oda has bothered showing somewhat of a strength progression is luffy and that via haki shenanigans. Zoro got a few frames worth of enma haki shenanigans. From then no other strawhat got chapters or even frames dedicated to their growth. Most strawhats barely have feats in the new world. All sanji got up to now is not defeating vergo and getting defeated by doflamingo with ease. Franky for some reason got more fights and victories than sanji. Brook got no fights in between fishman island and wano... Robin got iirc a single fight in dressrosa and then nothing else until BM. Ussop hasn't won any fights... Nami hasn't won any fights. Chopper's NW feats do not justify his bounty being as high as it is. It'd make no sense for oda to give any time for growth for the grand fleet if he can't even give the manga's literal main characters a fraction of the time they deserve. It'd even be infuriating. I mean, who even gives a crap about them nowadays? Given how little time oda has for actual character development the most likely scenario is that the next time we see them we are going to see the setup for the big event they are supposed to be involved with and then have the big event be immediately off screened.

Oda has made the story too Luffy-centric Post TS

 

[Pirate Queen]

Anyway King having a higher bounty than Marco is Oda’s way of telling us that he’s stronger than him. Which he means he should be around Big Mom’s level

HOW ARE YOU WRONG SO CONSISTANTLY

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

People forget
Bounties also factor in how destructive and reckless the pirate is
Jack is a billion dollar man ,

king and queen having such highbounties is also reflective how destructive the beast pirates
Their nicknames is literally calamities

 

[AmitDS]

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 2, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 2, 2021 ---

Anyway King having a higher bounty than Marco is Oda’s way of telling us that he’s stronger than him. Which he means he should be around Big Mom’s level

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 2, 2021 ---

King = BM confirmed

Using your own "logic," let's play with some bounties:

Marco's is 1.374b
Queen's is 1.32b
King's is now revealed to be 1.39b
BM's is approx. 4.39b

Using purely bounties alone, how'd you reach the conclusion that King = BM? xD (I wonder...Why would you want King to be around Yonkou level...? )

Anyway, applying context to these, we all know the BP's bounties are inflated due to their destructive, chaotic nature, so I would argue that in light of King's bounty reveal, this actually elevates Marco. He has a mere 0.016b (that's 16m) deficit vs. King's and King's is artificially inflated. Couple this with the fact that we've had on-panel clashes between Marco and both King & Queen and you can see that King's "higher" bounty, along with Queen's "close" bounty, in relation to Marco's is not indicative of King's their strength (or rather, superiority to him) lol.

 

[albertwv]

We all heard the saying that bounties are not power levels, of course. But most bounties do represent an indicator of that character's strength. Maybe at most 90% of known bounties are due to that person's strength. How the WG perceives a threat from an individual: their actions towards the WG or populace, how strong they are, or what danger they could possibly pose.

A few bounties that show nothing in strength but only threat to WG"
Child Robin, God Usopp, Ceasar Clown, and maybe Queen.
These three have shown that their actions NOT the strength entirely, is the reason why their bounties are so high, but in strengths wise when compared to someone close to their bounties, they are rather weaker.

Queen is a good example, I assume he has such a high bounty because he is in Kaidos Crew, creates various deadly viruses hence his nickname "The Plague", and well his overall strength too. But looking at his bounty and strength, I do not see him capable of defeating Katakuri who has a bounty way lower than his. Katakuri who is really powerful due to his Future Sight, may not be seen as huge threat compared to Queen's viruses.

My point here is, bounties ACTUALLY do represent the strength of that character to a degree. Not saying that Sanji > Zolo because Sanji's bounty is higher, but there is a correlation between strength/power levels and bounty levels.
So yes a lot of people were confused and disappointed when seeing both Marcos and King's bounties. We expected them to be way higher. Or in my point of view, Oda should have not made Luffy and Queen's bounties so high.

 

[M3J]

Marco and King's are too low? King makes sense, no, given how isolated Wano is? Marco probably has the benefit of Whitebeard and the fact that Whitebeard wasn't looking to cause trouble, at least not for a long while, as well as not being destructive.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Marco and King's are too low? King makes sense, no, given how isolated Wano is? Marco probably has the benefit of Whitebeard and the fact that Whitebeard wasn't looking to cause trouble, at least not for a long while, as well as not being destructive.

King isn’t restricted to wano too , he’s just based there
Remember that Blackbeard is a whole yonkou and only worth 2.2 billion berries

 

[HereNThere]

Oh lord, the bounty discussion is here now.

I love how both on-screen feats and portrayals and previous contexts surrounding bounties have gone straight out of the window now that King is revealed to a jmarginally higher bounty than Marco. Some readers have the attention span of gnats and the tunnel vision of moles.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Oh lord, the bounty discussion is here now.

I love how both on-screen feats and portrayals and previous contexts surrounding bounties have gone straight out of the window now that King is revealed to a jmarginally higher bounty than Marco. Some readers have the attention span of gnats and the tunnel vision of moles.

Exactly bounties are not the end all be all
Heck it gives an idea of strength range but kata is 1,047 and hack is 1 billion does that mean jack is close to kata in strength suddenly ?