One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Nie Li]

I have been defending for weeks that King would defeat Marco in a 1vs1, but their bounties are definitely close enough that they aren't indicative of anything other than them both being monsters.

 

[Fox666]

King is older and more chaotic, usually these things lead to higher bounties...

 

[albertwv]

Marco's bounty should be higher than Luffy's because he was the number 1 of the White Beard Pirates. After WB's death he took over the crew, that should've given him a raise. His bounty should be in between 1.5 billion and 2 billion.
King I was expecting higher because King > Queen > Jack in the hierarchy of the crew due to the similarities of the card game where K>Q>J. We saw the difference in bounty between Queen and Jack, so I assumed it would be nearly the same difference.

Luffy received an enormous jump from 500 million to 1.5 billion for defeating a 800 million and 1 billion bounty pirates. Oda shouldve given him a 1.25 billion bounty or something lower, but not 1.5 billion.

 

[AmitDS]

I just think it's funny that people bark about WB being the strongest emperor with the strongest crew of the emperors but due to their bias towards a certain character who is not Kaido or King, funny enough, now they want to claim that WB's strongest commander who was compared to admirals in the DB, is inferior to Kaido's.

Many of us said it and it has come to pass. The minute King ended up fighting Zoro instead of Kaido fighting him, people were going to switch up and start wanking King at the expense of Marco and even people like Katakuri and Queen.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I just think it's funny that people bark about WB being the strongest emperor with the strongest crew of the emperors but due to their bias towards a certain character who is not Kaido or King, funny enough, now they want to claim that WB's strongest commander who was compared to admirals in the DB, is inferior to Kaido's.

Many of us said and it has come to pass. The minute King ended up fighting Zoro instead of Kaido fighting him, people were going to switch up and start wanking King at the expense of Marco and even people like Katakuri and Queen.

Speaking facts my dude. We all called it

 

[XXGenesis]

So Oda highly exaggerated the 5th Emperor with only a 1.5B bounty and his crew didn’t even have anyone else with a bounty over 500M..So that just doesn’t even make much sense to me, it’s way too exaggerated with only the captain being anywhere abover or close to 1B bounty..

So I was very against this thinking but…Rlly Oda. Yamamoto is fighting Kaido 1 vs 1 both in hybrid form…Why didn’t she just blow through Sasaki’s & his squad…..sigh I’m done

 

[Nie Li]

So Oda highly exaggerated the 5th Emperor with only a 1.5B bounty and his crew didn’t even have anyone else with a bounty over 500M..So that just doesn’t even make much sense to me, it’s way too exaggerated with only the captain being anywhere abover or close to 1B bounty..

So I was very against this thinking but…Rlly Oda. Yamamoto is fighting Kaido 1 vs 1 both in hybrid form…Why didn’t she just blow through Sasaki’s & his squad…..sigh I’m done

The whole "5th Emperor" deal was just tabloid journalism from Morgans wanting to stir the waters further with his news. It wasn't exactly fake news as Luffy really did humiliate Big Mom and her crew publicaly, but Morgans took it a step further. Luffy, with no territories and a 10 men crew, has never been a "Yonkou".

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 3, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 3, 2021 ---

And of course Kaido demonstrated the "5th Yonko" didn't even have the individual strength of a Yonko at the time, but I think we all knew that.

Now Luffy is going to surpass Kaido while the rest of the crew surpasses... well, different echelons of a Yonkou crew, with Zoro officially surpassing a Yonkou's first mate and Sanji following as his close rival as usual. Jinbe's the most confusing one to gauge since he had a pretty easy win against a Tobi Roppo, but it looks like Jinbe only demolished him after Who's Who made him angry. Before that he was being injured by his techniques but his haki suddenly became much harder.

After the battle is over, Luffy could really be called a Yonkou if we were to count his fleet as part of his crew, but Luffy has no interest in neither his fleet or being an admiral, so he will technically never be a Yonkou.

Powerwise, Luffy really will have a crew that can take at least on the upper echelons of another Yonkou crew in 1vs1 fights, but they would still need external help to take on the a whole Yonko crew. There may be a lot of fodders but "fodders" in the thousands can really wear them all down and make them lose. Same reason Sanji and Jinbe recently tried to have Luffy avoid any fights with fodders before he reached Kaido.

 

[AmitDS]

Speaking facts my dude. We all called it

It's scary how predictable they are. Now they've gone on wanking King's bounty as if it makes him superior to Queen, Marco & Katakuri by a huge gap even though we all know that Kaido, his commanders and his crew have inflated bounties due to their brutal nature. Suddenly, bounties = strength again.

 

[M3J]

King isn’t restricted to wano too , he’s just based there
Remember that Blackbeard is a whole yonkou and only worth 2.2 billion berries

I know he is, but how often does he leave Wano and does bad things that the WG learns about?

I have been defending for weeks that King would defeat Marco in a 1vs1, but their bounties are definitely close enough that they aren't indicative of anything other than them both being monsters.

Is it possible to beat Marco tho?

Marco's bounty should be higher than Luffy's because he was the number 1 of the White Beard Pirates. After WB's death he took over the crew, that should've given him a raise. His bounty should be in between 1.5 billion and 2 billion.
King I was expecting higher because King > Queen > Jack in the hierarchy of the crew due to the similarities of the card game where K>Q>J. We saw the difference in bounty between Queen and Jack, so I assumed it would be nearly the same difference.

Luffy received an enormous jump from 500 million to 1.5 billion for defeating a 800 million and 1 billion bounty pirates. Oda shouldve given him a 1.25 billion bounty or something lower, but not 1.5 billion.

But what if Marco's bounty didn't increase too much because he/Whitebeard were relatively peaceful, and Whitebeard was well respected? While Luffy's actually far more dangerous, as the son of Dragon who can use King's haki and challenged the WG directly.

I just think it's funny that people bark about WB being the strongest emperor with the strongest crew of the emperors but due to their bias towards a certain character who is not Kaido or King, funny enough, now they want to claim that WB's strongest commander who was compared to admirals in the DB, is inferior to Kaido's.

Many of us said and it has come to pass. The minute King ended up fighting Zoro instead of Kaido fighting him, people were going to switch up and start wanking King at the expense of Marco and even people like Katakuri and Queen.

I've been saying this, especially with why people are hyping up Mihawk so much or claiming he's the strongest. It's annoying and dumb.

 

[LaGOAT]

so king>marco>queen lol

@Lobo jinbei was yonko commader lvl at least (YC3 lvl even before the TS) imo
jinbei was too strong to join the crew hence why oda made it official this arc. jinbei will the 4th strongest SH fighter after this arc.

oda wants to keep the monster trio so that chain isnt gonna break

as for yamato i dont think she gonna join the crew (although it would be cool we need more females in the crew lol) it would be hard to rank her in the crew plus i think she will guardian for momonosuke

 

[Nie Li]

Is it possible to beat Marco tho?

Short answer: yes.

Long answer: Marco's regeneration is linked to his stamina. As all top tier characters in the series his stamina is absurdly superhuman but it eventually runs out. Unless he was lying he's admitted himself he's reached his limit by now on Onigashima.

So it's possible to beat Marco if you can outlast his stamina by making him regenerate enough times before he takes you down.

Last chapter, most people focused on King (to toxic effects), but Queen said something else that was even more interesting: "our unstoppable toughness is why they call us all-stars", which goes to support what I had been saying about King being capable of tanking Marco well long enough to take him down.

Spoiler: Regarding Marco vs King specifically

Marco "clowned" King and Queen, as Pirate Queen likes to put it, because of his DF that allows him to ignore even haki attacks, and it was evident that King and Queen lacked information about him to try to counter him with other methods (like "holding him down" like Big Mom did. Since Marco is not a logia, he can be held down by physical effort as long as it doesn't destroy his physical body). However, King and Queen endured through Marco's stamina and Marco failed to show any good attack power feat despite everything else he has shown.

Now, there are many factors to the Marco vs King and Queen that we witnessed:
On Marco's favor:
- He wasted stamina using his flames to slow down the oni thing on those afflicted across the battlefield.
- He managed to stall King and Queen for a long time.

On the other hand:
- Marco thought Zoro's stage was up against Kaido with Luffy and not down there with King, so he had no reason to "save" King and Queen for Zoro and Sanji. If he could have taken down King or Queen, he would have.
- Marco's OP regeneration allows him to entirely ignore everything King or Queen did for a long time, so he had all the time in the world to land as many attacks as he wanted on either of them. Not only none of them went down, they both appear to have tanked through his attacks perfectly fine despite having been pushed around. Queen's the only one who was bleeding through the attacks (he also bled from Chopper's slap) but Jack's endured far worse punishments and he's also doing just fine. Abnormal damage tanking is the All Stars trademark.

Additionally, in King's favor, King didn't his zoan form as soon as he realized he couldn't injure Marco. We also didn't see any special fire techniques from him nor his zoan form nor anything. Marco showed his full deck while he did not.

TL;DR: Marco's regeneration has a known limit. Fights between the three YC1 we know of so far are just endurance battles. Will Marco's regeneration run out first, will Katakuri mess up his CoO focus first or will one of them overcome King's absurd endurance. In my opinion, Marco lacks feats in his attack power even if he's very fast and versatile. One his regeneration runs out, which should run out before King goes down, the tables would turn and he would lose to him.

This is just my opinion on a 1vs1. Marco's role on a battlefield is just different than only fighting and all YC1 are comparable. The three we know of just spike very high on three different stats (CoO, regeneration and tankiness). Marco's a great healer, the best staller in the series and still a solid fighter.

 

[M3J]

oh we're talking about top Yonkou commander versus each other. Was wondering in general. However, can he deal enough damage to beat a commander?

 

[Nie Li]

oh we're talking about top Yonkou commander versus each other. Was wondering in general. However, can he deal enough damage to beat a commander?

That's definitely the issue with Marco: the damage he deals.

I think Marco can take down YCs like Katakuri and Cracker, Cracker very easily actually and Katakuri with some difficulty. But Marco's in some sort of "rock, paper and scissors" disadvantage against the All Stars (in a fair fight) precisely because of how Marco's damage feats and their tank feats compare.

 

[M3J]

How can he take down someone with Future Sight? Has Marco shown the same ability as well?

 

[Nie Li]

How can he take down someone with Future Sight? Has Marco shown the same ability as well?

To answer the later question first: Hannybal Psyche is also arguing that Marco could have Future Sight but we really don't have enough to make the claim.

Marco vs Katakuri would also be a battle of endurance and their weakness is very similar: Marco's regeneration has a limit, but so has Katakuri's focus.

Katakuri's future sight only lasts for as long as he manages to stay fully focused on his CoO. So for a long while it would be a fight of Katakuri dodging everything and Marco ignoring all of his attacks.

Very close fight imo that could go either way strictly speaking. The reason why I believe Marco is more likely to win the fight is because I think it's easier for Katakuri's focus to fail sooner than Marco's stamina runs out.

Katakuri can take punishment (he endured G4 Luffy for a while) but he's not supposed to be as purely tanky as the All-Stars. I trust Marco can injure him if he can start landing attacks (in Marco's defense, we have only seen him land attacks on the All Stars).

 

[M3J]

So, why wouldn't Katakuri stay focused on CoO and remain calm? He could also figure out a way to really hurt Marco as well, as Future Sight would show him what would happen, so he can see if it's worth the risk or not.

Though if he does try to change what he sees, he won't be able to see the new future (like when he flicked a jellybean at Sanji after seeing him dodge the marriage guy's bullet, but was unable to see Sanji dodging him), and Marco could try to use this to his advantage. It even helped Luffy because he was able to stop using Gear 4 before he ran completely out of haki. But other than that, it's hard to think of Katakuri not being calm enough for CoO, unless Marco is more talented than Luffy in pissing people off.

 

[HereNThere]

Marco's bounty should be higher than Luffy's because he was the number 1 of the White Beard Pirates. After WB's death he took over the crew, that should've given him a raise. His bounty should be in between 1.5 billion and 2 billion.
King I was expecting higher because King > Queen > Jack in the hierarchy of the crew due to the similarities of the card game where K>Q>J. We saw the difference in bounty between Queen and Jack, so I assumed it would be nearly the same difference.

Luffy received an enormous jump from 500 million to 1.5 billion for defeating a 800 million and 1 billion bounty pirates. Oda shouldve given him a 1.25 billion bounty or something lower, but not 1.5 billion.

At this point, I'm sure it's pretty clear that we, as readers, had too high expectations as opposed to Oda's plan.

In terms of Marco's bounty, funnily enough, his current bounty could be the result of his taking over the crew for all we know. Nevermind the distinct likelihood that all surviving WB members most likely got a boost for participating in the war.

As for King, Face Cards go in order from least to most valuable, but there really isn't a numerical measure for it. This is one of those moments where portrayal comes in. King and Queen are relative, while Jack is the whipping boy. There's really no reason for King to have a substantially higher bounty.

Honestly, if things keep going as they are now, I'd say that 1.5 billion is the filter for Yonkou and YC, especially seeing as how Luffy received his title as 5th Yonkou along with the increase. Might have been intentional on Oda's part. It's possible that not a lot of people will surpass that number. Maybe Mihawk, Beckman, and Boa.

Yasopp and Lucky Roux might be the only ones currently at 1.4.

 

[Fox666]

Marco's bounty should be higher than Luffy's because he was the number 1 of the White Beard Pirates. After WB's death he took over the crew, that should've given him a raise. His bounty should be in between 1.5 billion and 2 billion.
King I was expecting higher because King > Queen > Jack in the hierarchy of the crew due to the similarities of the card game where K>Q>J. We saw the difference in bounty between Queen and Jack, so I assumed it would be nearly the same difference.

Luffy received an enormous jump from 500 million to 1.5 billion for defeating a 800 million and 1 billion bounty pirates. Oda shouldve given him a 1.25 billion bounty or something lower, but not 1.5 billion.

Luffy wasn't given a bounty of 1.5 billion for defeating two commander

He wiped the floor with the Big Mom Pirates, was the mastermind behind a plan to assassinate Big Mom, and his raid on her territory completely humilhated her

 

[Rmstorm]

Luffy wasn't given a bounty of 1.5 billion for defeating two commander

He wiped the floor with the Big Mom Pirates, was the mastermind behind a plan to assassinate Big Mom, and his raid on her territory completely humilhated her

Plus they were made aware of his Grandfleet.

 

[XXGenesis]

Luffy wasn't given a bounty of 1.5 billion for defeating two commander

He wiped the floor with the Big Mom Pirates, was the mastermind behind a plan to assassinate Big Mom, and his raid on her territory completely humilhated her

Redundant comment.
He was given the Bounty due to EVERYTHING that occurred in WCI; 2 Sweet commanders defeated; Spoiled wedding & a assassin attempt w/ Another SUpernova Captain; Castle was destroyed; SHP escaped…

Morgan juiced that news alongside with Bartomelo & Cavendish bragging about the SHP fleet.

Either way The level of Cap Morgan did was shameful lol; Luffy got demolished 3 times since then by a Yonkou.