One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

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It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

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• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Is Yamato YC1+ though?
I'm fairly certain Kaido was holding back, and her base around Ulti level.

Ben Beckman is most likely solid admiral tier based on hype (databook) and portrayal based on inherited will. I mean, inherited will of Roger -> Shanks -> Luffy.
Rayleigh was borderline Yonko level, if not low Yonko level. When Roger was top tier Yonko level.
Same for Oden/WB
Zoro is a lot closer to Luffy than typical YC1 (King/Katakuri) is to their captains.
So, I expect Ben Beckman to be admiral tier, since Shanks is a mid level Yonko



Agree



Sure.

Yet, it was WB who won that fight.
WB was standing and kicking around, fought countless marines since then and almost defeated Blackbeard; while Akainu was KO'd. Luckily for Akainu, he slid into the ground and fell off, before WB could finish him.

You could say WB high-extreme diff'd that fight

If a WB, who was injured, sick and nerfed (heart attack), while old and far from his peak to begin with, could high-extreme diff Akainu. I have no doubt that Kaido or Shanks could mid-high diff Akainu



Maybe.
But IMO Kizaru < Aokiji and Akainu for now

He can definitely put up a fight against Yonkos, but will lose.



I agree they're a different class from regular Yonkos, but not too far off either.

IMO Kaido, at the very least, would give Roger and peak WB lower ends of high diff



I don't think so.

WB, even while old (bar sickness of course), was recognized even by Sengoku and admirals, as the strongest pirate.
Connect the dude to medical equipment, and his haki rivals that of Shanks, someone who became Yonko purely by haki and nothing else.

Peak WB, and Roger/Garp who scales to him directly, are definitely a cut above the rest

As for Oden, I put him and Rayleigh at same level. Low Yonko level. They have similar portrayal, being the 2nd strongest of WB/Roger pirates.

Sure, Ulti is strong. But she's more like YC4 level.

Luffy wasn't serious obviously. He just wanted to get away more than actually fight to hurt her

Kaido obviously wasn't going to kill her.
Yamato tries this shit with Kaido all the time, and he beats her up



That's what I'm saying.

Old WB with medical equipments (i.e Old WB - sickness) was still the strongest pirate.

Now imagine a peak WB in his 40s. He's obviously a different level from from the current Yonkos.
Roger and peak Garp scales to peak, and hence a different level from current Yokos



Yeah, I said he high-extreme diff'd

Akainu was KO'd and fell into the chasm, otherwise I can guarantee you that WB would've killed him.

If heavily nerfed old WB is slightly above the strongest admiral amongst the trio, I can see Kaido and Shanks mid diffing Kizaru and mid-high diffing Akainu
Point being, Yonkos are definitely a cut above Admirals. They close enough to put up a fight, but aren't as close as you're saying



By the end of the arc, Zoro will end up being strong enough to give Luffy high diff, as usual

Zoro will be YC1+
Luffy solid admiral tier (Kizaru level)

Akainu wasn’t knocked out he just fell into the chasm cause he lost his platform , if he was knocked out he would have died or fell down into the ocean
The problem is where is Zoro gonna claim the skills to high
I think WB was being honored on who he was , he said so himself “you can’t be the strongest forever”
I’m sorry but I can’t see old WB being extreme difficulty for kaido or big mum
Sengoku and others who called him the strongest called him that without knowing how bad his health had detoriated , they had no reason to believe he was extremely washed
Yamato also wasn’t interested in fighting ulti at all either they had a brief exchange of panels , same as luffy but that somehow is different

 

[grey matter]

Akainu wasn’t knocked out he just fell into the chasm cause he lost his platform , if he was knocked out he would have died or fell down into the ocean

He was lying on the floor and slid slowly into the chasm. He definitely was KO'd for a short period of time

There is a reason I think Oda did what he did. He wanted to preserve Akainu for the future, and had him fall off before WB could finish him off

The problem is where is Zoro gonna claim the skills to high

He'll get a powerup while fighting King if we're going by usual patterns

Currently Zoro is YC1 tier, will move to YC1+ by the end of the arc

I think WB was being honored on who he was , he said so himself “you can’t be the strongest forever”
I’m sorry but I can’t see old WB being extreme difficulty for kaido or big mum

The old WB who was in Marineford? Yeah, he'd lose high diff to Kaido or BM, the dude's haki was weak

The old WB who is connected to medical equipment, and equalled haki of the Shanks, who most likely is the best haki user alive currently?
Yeah, I can see the old WB connected to medical equipment extreme diffing Kaido

Sengoku and others who called him the strongest called him that without knowing how bad his health had detoriated , they had no reason to believe he was extremely washed

Yep. They didn't know of the sickness. They still know he's old, and isn't as strong as his peak due to natural deterioration from old age

That is exactly what I'm saying
Old WB minus sickness was still the strongest pirate.

 

[I Am Atomic]

He was lying on the floor and slid slowly into the chasm. He definitely was KO'd for a short period of time

There is a reason I think Oda did what he did. He wanted to preserve Akainu for the future, and had him fall off before WB could finish him off



He'll get a powerup while fighting King if we're going by usual patterns

Currently Zoro is YC1 tier, will move to YC1+ by the end of the arc



The old WB who was in Marineford? Yeah, he'd lose high diff to Kaido or BM, the dude's haki was weak

The old WB who is connected to medical equipment, and equalled haki of the Shanks, who most likely is the best haki user alive currently?
Yeah, I can see the old WB connected to medical equipment extreme diffing Kaido



Yep. They didn't know of the sickness. They still know he's old, and isn't as strong as his peak due to natural deterioration from old age

That is exactly what I'm saying
Old WB minus sickness was still the strongest pirate.

Yes, thanks for pointing it out. People need to understand that the WB that faced Shanks is different from the WB that faced Akainu. If they can grasp that context, then everything makes sense.

 

[AmitDS]

The former is confirmed in a databook

No it hasn't. It's been said in his vivre card that Benn's existence was akin to Shanks. The translator said it is unknown if this refers to power, authority, behavior, etc. or something else. It may well turn out to be true but accepting this idea as canon at this moment is wrong.

and the latter is something that most of the OP community believes and something I've heard from even non-Zoro fans. Rayleigh being on the same level as Roger is a pretty commonly held opinion in the OP fandom.

"Held opinions," and, "beliefs," don't constitute canon. That's just a headcanon held by a segment of the fandom. It can be proven true or not, but as of now it's false.

On-topic tho, I may be one of the few (or not lol) that doesn't believe that a huge gap exists between a Yonkou and PK/WB/Shiki and I guess Garp/Sengoku. People treat PK level as an entire tier above the Yonkou but imo it wouldn't have made sense when looking at for eg. the old era when Yonkou BM was competing with WB, Roger AND Shiki if they were in fact an entire tier above her. Operating under the assumption that PK level is a tier higher than Yonkou, the 3 of them would've easily dominated and eradicated BM, but ironically enough, Oda had Roger inconspicuously steal her poneglyph, an action that would've been unnecessary if he was in fact an entire tier above her and by extension, if Rayleigh was in fact Yonkou/PK level as well.
Either way, I believe any Yonkou vs Yonkou is an extreme-diff fight that can swing either way; WB vs a Yonkou should also be an extreme diff fight but I guess he'll have the clear edge. Same for Roger & Garp.
And lastly, no I don't think Luffy is Yonkou-levelled as yet lol. It's been consistently reiterated that Kaido is weakening so in essence if Luffy is equaling a weakened Kaido I would say he'd need maybe the next arc to fully realize his Yonkou prowess.

 

[M3J]

Yes, thanks for pointing it out. People need to understand that the WB that faced Shanks is different from the WB that faced Akainu. If they can grasp that context, then everything makes sense.

Isn't it possible that they're both the same Whitebeard, but Shanks and Whitebeard were having fun while Whitebeard and Akainu were actually serious? Though maybe Marineford Whitebeard may have been slightly weaker.


I don't think Pirate King is a different tier at all, seems to be the same/similar tier as an emperor.

 

[I Am Atomic]

Isn't it possible that they're both the same Whitebeard, but Shanks and Whitebeard were having fun while Whitebeard and Akainu were actually serious? Though maybe Marineford Whitebeard may have been slightly weaker.


I don't think Pirate King is a different tier at all, seems to be the same/similar tier as an emperor.

I would have believed that but Marco itself state otherwise. So I am inclined to believe that WB got weaker when he came to the war. Why? Because he was off his meds for 3 days (iirc).

Now the question is, why didn't WB wear the meds? First of all, if his enemies saw that they would higher morale thinking they are fighting a weaker WB (even though it's the opposite). Morale plays a big role in a war. What WB said "I don't want my enemies to have pity on me"

But there is a second option, why didn't he wear it until the last minute? This I do not know because the manga doesn't explain in. So what I say is pure head canon.
1. The women wasn't on board. They were the nurses as we saw in the chapter where Shanks visit WB.
But reason 1 begs the question why Marco couldn't do it.
2. WB didn't want it

I am not arguing a Yonko is miles above Admirals anymore (I did that in the past, but not anymore until I see it again). So, I seriously do want to see an Admiral Vs a fresh Yonko very badly. Will set the power level discussion to a stop.

I am looking forward to Kizaru, Fujitora and/or Ryogoku making an appearance.

 

[M3J]

I would have believed that but Marco itself state otherwise. So I am inclined to believe that WB got weaker when he came to the war. Why? Because he was off his meds for 3 days (iirc).

Now the question is, why didn't WB wear the meds? First of all, if his enemies saw that they would higher morale thinking they are fighting a weaker WB (even though it's the opposite). Morale plays a big role in a war. What WB said "I don't want my enemies to have pity on me"

But there is a second option, why didn't he wear it until the last minute? This I do not know because the manga doesn't explain in. So what I say is pure head canon.
1. The women wasn't on board. They were the nurses as we saw in the chapter where Shanks visit WB.
But reason 1 begs the question why Marco couldn't do it.
2. WB didn't want it

I am not arguing a Yonko is miles above Admirals anymore (I did that in the past, but not anymore until I see it again). So, I seriously do want to see an Admiral Vs a fresh Yonko very badly. Will set the power level discussion to a stop.

I am looking forward to Kizaru, Fujitora and/or Ryogoku making an appearance.

Yeah that's why I figured Marineford WB was slightly weaker, but not as much. But I thought he was off his meds for a day, maybe day and half at most, but I can understand how he wouldn't have been as strong if he really stopped taking meds three days prior.

Plus, Whitebeard probably intended to die, and he also thought he was strong enough to handle the enemies.

Same here, but I don't think having an admiral fight Big Mom or Kaidou this arc would be good, as neither are friesh.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Isn't it possible that they're both the same Whitebeard, but Shanks and Whitebeard were having fun while Whitebeard and Akainu were actually serious? Though maybe Marineford Whitebeard may have been slightly weaker.


I don't think Pirate King is a different tier at all, seems to be the same/similar tier as an emperor.

That’s how I feel cause roger actually didn’t actually defeat any of the emperors of his time
Shiki got rotten Luck and had a draw with roger despite half his fleet getttint smashed up
WB was essentially uninterested and gifted roger the title by allowing him take oden and not visiting wano or oden to try and become PK
Only BM I can say and her situation is interesting

we’ve gotten 2 admirals tier dudes who are pretty much even with roger and whitebeard in Sengoku and garp
Still haven’t seen the full extent of akainu kizaru or aokiji yet

 

[M3J]

That’s how I feel cause roger actually didn’t actually defeat any of the emperors of his time
Shiki got rotten Luck and had a draw with roger despite half his fleet getttint smashed up
WB was essentially uninterested and gifted roger the title by allowing him take oden and not visiting wano or oden to try and become PK
Only BM I can say and her situation is interesting

we’ve gotten 2 admirals tier dudes who are pretty much even with roger and whitebeard in Sengoku and garp
Still haven’t seen the full extent of akainu kizaru or aokiji yet

Well not as far as we know of. In any case, a Pirate King isn't supposed to be the strongest, they just have to be able to take care of themselves.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Well not as far as we know of. In any case, a Pirate King isn't supposed to be the strongest, they just have to be able to take care of themselves.

Bingo so the sudden implication of a PK being a tier unto himself isn’t quite that , cause the precious was not stronger than one ( WB ) possibly two of his rivals (shiki) and the third one wasn’t worth the fight ( big mum )

 

[Luke Beifong]

I don’t think that Roger is stronger than WB, Garp or Sengoku, in my opinion those 4 guys are on the same tier, let’s say a Yonko+. Maybe Shiki is here too, I don’t know…

Kaido, BM and BB are Yonko tier. I really wish Akainu is here too. He have the most offensive DF in the series, Oda said that if he’s the protagonist he could make all the way though Paradise and the NW in one year. And nowadays, to become the PK, you need to, at least, have clash’s against BM and Kaido. Course, you can find ways to get their Poneglyphs without fighting them, but in the end, they will follow you. BM didn’t go after Roger because she doesn’t know where he’s going with the informations in the poneglyphs.

Luffy is a low Yonko. Raylight in his peak maybe is here, another wish is Tsuru (the vice admiral, friend of Garp and Sengoku) being in this tier too.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 16, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 16, 2021 ---

The only one I can see as a tier higher than the Yonko+ is Rocks. And it’s just a maybe too, we don’t know how is fight against Roger and Garp ends. I can imagine that WB changed sides in the middle of the battle, maybe if Shakky is in the Rocks crew she changes too. And I think that Sengoku, Tsuru and Rayleigh are present in that fight too.

 

[Fallou]

Disappointing story if suddenly Rayleigh=Shanks=Beckman=Akainu=BM=Shiki=BB=Roger
Which seems to be what you're all seem to be saying

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Disappointing story if suddenly Rayleigh=Shanks=Beckman=Akainu=BM=Shiki=BB=Roger
Which seems to be what you're all seem to be saying

Nah Shanks = 97.5 , big mum = 98 , roger/garp/whitebeard=100 Sengoku =99.5/100 , kaido = 98.5
Ie yeah there are people stronger in the same group but they’re in the same tier

 

[albertwv]

Yep. Everyone and their mom is tanking Yonko attacks at this point.

Let's be real here. There is virtually no consistency in Wano arc at this point.
Either what happened to Luffy in beginning of arc was an outlier. Or everything happening in raid is an outlier

IDK if you are being sarcastic about the mom part, but I mean look at Ulti, she tanked BM's attack.

The Yonkos power hype has declined by alot since the Raid on Onigashima. Its no longer the same as Oda introduced them as. Which is disappointing.
I agree that Luffy is NOT Yonko level, he is close to admiral level if anything. Sky splitter attack doesnt necessarily mean Yonko level. I think Luffy is close to Kizaru. If Luffy was Yonko level now, then what would happen after Wano?

 

[grey matter]

IDK if you are being sarcastic about the mom part, but I mean look at Ulti, she tanked BM's attack.

The Yonkos power hype has declined by alot since the Raid on Onigashima. Its no longer the same as Oda introduced them as. Which is disappointing.
I agree that Luffy is NOT Yonko level, he is close to admiral level if anything. Sky splitter attack doesnt necessarily mean Yonko level. I think Luffy is close to Kizaru. If Luffy was Yonko level now, then what would happen after Wano?

Nope, I didn't even realize it lmao. Point was that everyone seems to be tanking Yonko attacks these days


Agree. I think one shotting Luffy was too much, but what's happening in the raid seems like an overcompensation lmao
Also yea, Luffy is admiral tier IMO, too soon for Yonko tier when there are like 4 more arcs to go

Isn't it possible that they're both the same Whitebeard, but Shanks and Whitebeard were having fun while Whitebeard and Akainu were actually serious? Though maybe Marineford Whitebeard may have been slightly weaker.


I don't think Pirate King is a different tier at all, seems to be the same/similar tier as an emperor.

Yeah that's why I figured Marineford WB was slightly weaker, but not as much. But I thought he was off his meds for a day, maybe day and half at most, but I can understand how he wouldn't have been as strong if he really stopped taking meds three days prior.

Plus, Whitebeard probably intended to die, and he also thought he was strong enough to handle the enemies.

Same here, but I don't think having an admiral fight Big Mom or Kaidou this arc would be good, as neither are friesh.

Nah, Marineford WB wasn't just slightly weaker, he was a LOT weaker.

Old WB on meds has haki on par with Shanks, and Shanks most likely is the best haki user alive currently (considering he became Yonko with his haki alone).
This WB would've dodged Sqaurdo's attack in his sleep, and wiped off half the marines with his conqueror's haki

Old WB on Marineford (without meds for days) had weak haki. His observation haki and conqueror's haki were non existent, and he just had enough armament haki to damage the logia admirals
He was getting heart attack in between the fights (directly linked to being off meds for days)

The difference between the two is night and day

The former was recognized as the strongest pirate even by the top dogs of navy. The latter would get high diff'd by Kaido and almost lose to Akainu

Nah Shanks = 97.5 , big mum = 98 , roger/garp/whitebeard=100 Sengoku =99.5/100 , kaido = 98.5
Ie yeah there are people stronger in the same group but they’re in the same tier

Nah, the way you're putting is making it seem that everyone here can give others extreme diff. Not true

Peak WB, Garp and Roger are at worst high diffing the current Yonkos. Considering old WB on meds is above Shanks (if his haki is Shanks level, adding his brute strength + DF puts him definitely over Shanks)

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 17, 2021 ---

Kaido, BM and BB are Yonko tier. I really wish Akainu is here too. He have the most offensive DF in the series, Oda said that if he’s the protagonist he could make all the way though Paradise and the NW in one year. And nowadays, to become the PK, you need to, at least, have clash’s against BM and Kaido. Course, you can find ways to get their Poneglyphs without fighting them, but in the end, they will follow you. BM didn’t go after Roger because she doesn’t know where he’s going with the informations in the poneglyphs.

I actually think Akainu is low Yonko level at this point (similar to Rayleigh/Oden).
Might not make much sense since he's already at his prime, but I think he got a powerup in the 2 years, esp since he's fleet admiral now

 

[albertwv]

I actually think Akainu is low Yonko level at this point (similar to Rayleigh/Oden).
Might not make much sense since he's already at his prime, but I think he got a powerup in the 2 years, esp since he's fleet admiral now

i disagree, i've noticed a lot of people think promoting to FA is a power up. I see it more of a political position. now i do believe sengoku was stronger than the admirals in the pre ts, but thats because him and garp were from the old era. old era were stronger than current admirals imo.
akainu > aokiji for sure and maybe also >kizaru. but that was while he was admiral. i dont see why akainu would get a power up just becsuse he was promoted to fa.
until oda states it in the manga that akainu got stronger than will i believe it.

 

[grey matter]

i disagree, i've noticed a lot of people think promoting to FA is a power up. I see it more of a political position. now i do believe sengoku was stronger than the admirals in the pre ts, but thats because him and garp were from the old era. old era were stronger than current admirals imo.
akainu > aokiji for sure and maybe also >kizaru. but that was while he was admiral. i dont see why akainu would get a power up just becsuse he was promoted to fa.
until oda states it in the manga that akainu got stronger than will i believe it.

I agree.

Like I said, that point doesn't make much logical sense, since Akainu at marineford is already at his peak. But I can see Oda doing it (I mean giving him a powerup), that's all

 

[Rmstorm]

IDK if you are being sarcastic about the mom part, but I mean look at Ulti, she tanked BM's attack.

The Yonkos power hype has declined by alot since the Raid on Onigashima. Its no longer the same as Oda introduced them as. Which is disappointing.
I agree that Luffy is NOT Yonko level, he is close to admiral level if anything. Sky splitter attack doesnt necessarily mean Yonko level. I think Luffy is close to Kizaru. If Luffy was Yonko level now, then what would happen after Wano?

Luffy IS Yonko level, no matter how much you demy it. Oda will make you accept it by force

 

[Pirate Queen]

Luffy IS Yonko level, no matter how much you demy it. Oda will make you accept it by force

This man is spitting fax

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 17, 2021 ---

By FORCE!

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Nope, I didn't even realize it lmao. Point was that everyone seems to be tanking Yonko attacks these days


Agree. I think one shotting Luffy was too much, but what's happening in the raid seems like an overcompensation lmao
Also yea, Luffy is admiral tier IMO, too soon for Yonko tier when there are like 4 more arcs to go




Nah, Marineford WB wasn't just slightly weaker, he was a LOT weaker.

Old WB on meds has haki on par with Shanks, and Shanks most likely is the best haki user alive currently (considering he became Yonko with his haki alone).
This WB would've dodged Sqaurdo's attack in his sleep, and wiped off half the marines with his conqueror's haki

Old WB on Marineford (without meds for days) had weak haki. His observation haki and conqueror's haki were non existent, and he just had enough armament haki to damage the logia admirals
He was getting heart attack in between the fights (directly linked to being off meds for days)

The difference between the two is night and day

The former was recognized as the strongest pirate even by the top dogs of navy. The latter would get high diff'd by Kaido and almost lose to Akainu



Nah, the way you're putting is making it seem that everyone here can give others extreme diff. Not true

Peak WB, Garp and Roger are at worst high diffing the current Yonkos. Considering old WB on meds is above Shanks (if his haki is Shanks level, adding his brute strength + DF puts him definitely over Shanks)

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 17, 2021 ---

I actually think Akainu is low Yonko level at this point (similar to Rayleigh/Oden).
Might not make much sense since he's already at his prime, but I think he got a powerup in the 2 years, esp since he's fleet admiral now

i disagree, i've noticed a lot of people think promoting to FA is a power up. I see it more of a political position. now i do believe sengoku was stronger than the admirals in the pre ts, but thats because him and garp were from the old era. old era were stronger than current admirals imo.
akainu > aokiji for sure and maybe also >kizaru. but that was while he was admiral. i dont see why akainu would get a power up just becsuse he was promoted to fa.
until oda states it in the manga that akainu got stronger than will i believe it.

I agree.

Like I said, that point doesn't make much logical sense, since Akainu at marineford is already at his peak. But I can see Oda doing it (I mean giving him a powerup), that's all

I dunno it makes no sense how they portray RFA in which it was an ideological battle as opposed to really physical and an extreme difficulty fight
I just can’t see a way that akainu got any stronger in the fight , in reality he and aokiji are on the same level
It implies that Sengoku got stronger after the promotion, when nah he and garp were at the same level and he was at that level of strength for a minute

I feel at times it’s almost a disservice to Oda cause he’s spent so much time building it pain stakingly that the biggest differentiation in the PK and yonkou really isn’t strength at this point , roger didn’t beat any of them to ascend
He didn’t defeat any of the other rulers of his age , all that really happened was him getting oden