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As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:
Shanks v Mihawk
Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
Zoro > Luffy
Zoro v Sanji
Is Smoker a top 30 character?
Mihawk's rank within the story
Law having CoC currently.
Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.
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We will see if Akainu got a power up or not later in the series.
Sengoku and Garp seem to be considered equals, just like Roger and WB.
The thing I dont quite understand is this.
Roger was the strongest man alive or at least tied with WB during Rogers era. After Roger died WB became the WSM.
Garp and Roger fought and almost killed each other plenty time, kinda like how WB and Roger fought. But it was never stated they were equals, it was only stated that Garp "cornered the PK plenty times"....
You see Smoker can say that he has almost killed/cornered Luffy more than once, while its obvious Luffy is now stronger and maybe he was stronger than Smoker only he couldnt land a blow back then.
What am getting at is, Garp couldve just cornered and fought Roger but was never at his level.
Another thing is what I really want more details on is God Valley Rocks fight.
Rocks was Rogers mightiest foe, not WB or Garp, so maybe Rocks was stronger than Roger and Roger combined forces with Garp to defeat Rocks.
But then who else dealt with the rest of Rocks pirates: WB, BM, young Kaido, Shiki, Silver Axe, etc. all who were extremely strong. Were the rest of the Roger PIrates there too, makes sense, so there was Ray and Scopper who couldve probably matched up to BM or Kaido maybe who knows.
What about the Marines, was the Garp the only formidable one, seems so since Sengoku didnt mention anyone else.
So then was it a 1v1 Roger vs Rocks and then Garp vs the rest of the mighty Rocks pirates? Seems highly unreasonable for Garp to take them on all at once even for Garp.
Or what if Roger and Garp vs Rocks 2v1, while the rest of the Rocks Pirates watched in the sidelines, they probably didnt care much about each other since they were killing each other, so maybe WB, BM, Shiki, Kaido etc wanted to see if Rocks would fall and did nothing.
Sengoku said it was Roger and Garp who took down the Rocks Pirates, this is vague to me, I just cant see those two even with Rogers Pirates and fodder marines defeating all of the Rocks Pirates.
We will see if Akainu got a power up or not later in the series.
Sengoku and Garp seem to be considered equals, just like Roger and WB.
The thing I dont quite understand is this.
Roger was the strongest man alive or at least tied with WB during Rogers era. After Roger died WB became the WSM.
Garp and Roger fought and almost killed each other plenty time, kinda like how WB and Roger fought. But it was never stated they were equals, it was only stated that Garp "cornered the PK plenty times"....
You see Smoker can say that he has almost killed/cornered Luffy more than once, while its obvious Luffy is now stronger and maybe he was stronger than Smoker only he couldnt land a blow back then.
What am getting at is, Garp couldve just cornered and fought Roger but was never at his level.
Another thing is what I really want more details on is God Valley Rocks fight.
Rocks was Rogers mightiest foe, not WB or Garp, so maybe Rocks was stronger than Roger and Roger combined forces with Garp to defeat Rocks.
But then who else dealt with the rest of Rocks pirates: WB, BM, young Kaido, Shiki, Silver Axe, etc. all who were extremely strong. Were the rest of the Roger PIrates there too, makes sense, so there was Ray and Scopper who couldve probably matched up to BM or Kaido maybe who knows.
What about the Marines, was the Garp the only formidable one, seems so since Sengoku didnt mention anyone else.
So then was it a 1v1 Roger vs Rocks and then Garp vs the rest of the mighty Rocks pirates? Seems highly unreasonable for Garp to take them on all at once even for Garp.
Or what if Roger and Garp vs Rocks 2v1, while the rest of the Rocks Pirates watched in the sidelines, they probably didnt care much about each other since they were killing each other, so maybe WB, BM, Shiki, Kaido etc wanted to see if Rocks would fall and did nothing.
Sengoku said it was Roger and Garp who took down the Rocks Pirates, this is vague to me, I just cant see those two even with Rogers Pirates and fodder marines defeating all of the Rocks Pirates.
It's possible that Big Mom and Kaido weren't top tiers back then. So it was 3 top tiers vs 3 top tiers (Roger, Rayleigh and Garp vs Rocks, WB and Shiki)
I dunno it makes no sense how they portray RFA in which it was an ideological battle as opposed to really physical and an extreme difficulty fight
I just can’t see a way that akainu got any stronger in the fight , in reality he and aokiji are on the same level
It implies that Sengoku got stronger after the promotion, when nah he and garp were at the same level and he was at that level of strength for a minute
I feel at times it’s almost a disservice to Oda cause he’s spent so much time building it pain stakingly that the biggest differentiation in the PK and yonkou really isn’t strength at this point , roger didn’t beat any of them to ascend
He didn’t defeat any of the other rulers of his age , all that really happened was him getting oden
What is RFA?
Maybe Akainu got stronger because of the 10 day war? Haki (and maybe DF abilities) bloom during wars and difficulties. Point being, Oda can definitely power up Akainu without it being some BS. I'm not saying this is definitely the case, but that this could be a possible case.
Just that old WB, who was way past his prime, was above Shanks as long as he's not off meds for too long. Old WB (without sickness) was also considered the strongest pirate by the tops of the navy. This definitely means prime WB is on a different level from current Yonkos
Roger and prime Garp, who scales to prime WB, should also be a cut above the current Yonkos.
These three are not strong because they are "PK tiers". Just because they are that strong.
I see your point, that PK is just the man who is most free.
But, ultimate freedom comes only from ultimate power. You cannot be free if someone equal/stronger than you stands in your way. In this sense, Roger was the freest, because the only two who could stop him (WB/Garp) were on friendly terms with him. He's above everyone else.
This is also why EOS Luffy will be the strongest character alive in the series at that moment, he will be the most free when he is the most powerful (plus powerful crew)
It's possible that Big Mom and Kaido weren't top tiers back then. So it was 3 top tiers vs 3 top tiers (Roger, Rayleigh and Garp vs Rocks, WB and Shiki)
Kaido, could be. But he was like 38 years old back then. He was probably at his peak, or at least very damn close to it.
Edit: I realize you were talking about God Valley. Yeah, Kaido probably wasn't anywhere close to his peak that time
We will see if Akainu got a power up or not later in the series.
Sengoku and Garp seem to be considered equals, just like Roger and WB.
The thing I dont quite understand is this.
Roger was the strongest man alive or at least tied with WB during Rogers era. After Roger died WB became the WSM.
Garp and Roger fought and almost killed each other plenty time, kinda like how WB and Roger fought. But it was never stated they were equals, it was only stated that Garp "cornered the PK plenty times"....
You see Smoker can say that he has almost killed/cornered Luffy more than once, while its obvious Luffy is now stronger and maybe he was stronger than Smoker only he couldnt land a blow back then.
What am getting at is, Garp couldve just cornered and fought Roger but was never at his level.
Another thing is what I really want more details on is God Valley Rocks fight.
Rocks was Rogers mightiest foe, not WB or Garp, so maybe Rocks was stronger than Roger and Roger combined forces with Garp to defeat Rocks.
But then who else dealt with the rest of Rocks pirates: WB, BM, young Kaido, Shiki, Silver Axe, etc. all who were extremely strong. Were the rest of the Roger PIrates there too, makes sense, so there was Ray and Scopper who couldve probably matched up to BM or Kaido maybe who knows.
What about the Marines, was the Garp the only formidable one, seems so since Sengoku didnt mention anyone else.
So then was it a 1v1 Roger vs Rocks and then Garp vs the rest of the mighty Rocks pirates? Seems highly unreasonable for Garp to take them on all at once even for Garp.
Or what if Roger and Garp vs Rocks 2v1, while the rest of the Rocks Pirates watched in the sidelines, they probably didnt care much about each other since they were killing each other, so maybe WB, BM, Shiki, Kaido etc wanted to see if Rocks would fall and did nothing.
Sengoku said it was Roger and Garp who took down the Rocks Pirates, this is vague to me, I just cant see those two even with Rogers Pirates and fodder marines defeating all of the Rocks Pirates.
Garp seems stronger to be. But yea, Sengoku is very close. A high-extreme diff win for Garp IMO
Roger stated that they battled each other and almost killed each other countless times. So, it's not just cornered. Roger also said that nobody except Garp or Sengoku could catch him. This wouldn't be something Luffy would tell about Smoker for eg.
IMO Roger ~ Garp unless proven otherwise. There is lot more stuff suggesting this, than otherwise.
I agree. Rocks is the only character I can see a cut above the known top tiers (Roger/WB/Garp)
Hyped for the (hopefully inevitable) flashback we'll get on this. Something tells me that WB turned on Rocks, so it became Rocks + Kaido + BM + Shiki + RocksCrew vs Roger + Garp + WB+ Rayleigh/RogerCrew + navy
We will see if Akainu got a power up or not later in the series.
Sengoku and Garp seem to be considered equals, just like Roger and WB.
The thing I dont quite understand is this.
Roger was the strongest man alive or at least tied with WB during Rogers era. After Roger died WB became the WSM.
Garp and Roger fought and almost killed each other plenty time, kinda like how WB and Roger fought. But it was never stated they were equals, it was only stated that Garp "cornered the PK plenty times"....
You see Smoker can say that he has almost killed/cornered Luffy more than once, while its obvious Luffy is now stronger and maybe he was stronger than Smoker only he couldnt land a blow back then.
What am getting at is, Garp couldve just cornered and fought Roger but was never at his level.
Another thing is what I really want more details on is God Valley Rocks fight.
Rocks was Rogers mightiest foe, not WB or Garp, so maybe Rocks was stronger than Roger and Roger combined forces with Garp to defeat Rocks.
But then who else dealt with the rest of Rocks pirates: WB, BM, young Kaido, Shiki, Silver Axe, etc. all who were extremely strong. Were the rest of the Roger PIrates there too, makes sense, so there was Ray and Scopper who couldve probably matched up to BM or Kaido maybe who knows.
What about the Marines, was the Garp the only formidable one, seems so since Sengoku didnt mention anyone else.
So then was it a 1v1 Roger vs Rocks and then Garp vs the rest of the mighty Rocks pirates? Seems highly unreasonable for Garp to take them on all at once even for Garp.
Or what if Roger and Garp vs Rocks 2v1, while the rest of the Rocks Pirates watched in the sidelines, they probably didnt care much about each other since they were killing each other, so maybe WB, BM, Shiki, Kaido etc wanted to see if Rocks would fall and did nothing.
Sengoku said it was Roger and Garp who took down the Rocks Pirates, this is vague to me, I just cant see those two even with Rogers Pirates and fodder marines defeating all of the Rocks Pirates.
It would be kinda weird that garp wasn’t a main fighter against the rocks crew , kinda put as his crowning achievement
I think with all that’s happened after god valley and how roger views garp , I think garp fought more like how roger and whitebeard did over time , they secretly admired and cared for each other but just ended up on opposite sides
1000- Omg Luffy is Yonko level now !
1001- Oops I was wrong
1010- Omg Luffy is Yonko level now !
1012 Oops I was wrong
1027- This time Luffy is definitely Yonko level ! Trust me.
We will see if Akainu got a power up or not later in the series.
Sengoku and Garp seem to be considered equals, just like Roger and WB.
The thing I dont quite understand is this.
Roger was the strongest man alive or at least tied with WB during Rogers era. After Roger died WB became the WSM.
Garp and Roger fought and almost killed each other plenty time, kinda like how WB and Roger fought. But it was never stated they were equals, it was only stated that Garp "cornered the PK plenty times"....
You see Smoker can say that he has almost killed/cornered Luffy more than once, while its obvious Luffy is now stronger and maybe he was stronger than Smoker only he couldnt land a blow back then.
What am getting at is, Garp couldve just cornered and fought Roger but was never at his level.
Another thing is what I really want more details on is God Valley Rocks fight.
Rocks was Rogers mightiest foe, not WB or Garp, so maybe Rocks was stronger than Roger and Roger combined forces with Garp to defeat Rocks.
But then who else dealt with the rest of Rocks pirates: WB, BM, young Kaido, Shiki, Silver Axe, etc. all who were extremely strong. Were the rest of the Roger PIrates there too, makes sense, so there was Ray and Scopper who couldve probably matched up to BM or Kaido maybe who knows.
What about the Marines, was the Garp the only formidable one, seems so since Sengoku didnt mention anyone else.
So then was it a 1v1 Roger vs Rocks and then Garp vs the rest of the mighty Rocks pirates? Seems highly unreasonable for Garp to take them on all at once even for Garp.
Or what if Roger and Garp vs Rocks 2v1, while the rest of the Rocks Pirates watched in the sidelines, they probably didnt care much about each other since they were killing each other, so maybe WB, BM, Shiki, Kaido etc wanted to see if Rocks would fall and did nothing.
Sengoku said it was Roger and Garp who took down the Rocks Pirates, this is vague to me, I just cant see those two even with Rogers Pirates and fodder marines defeating all of the Rocks Pirates.
Kinda feels like head cannon we have no idea how Gods valley actually panned out
I’m kinda betting on whitebeard leaving rocks and not partaking in the fight
There’s a lot of clear text that whitebeard ain’t that dude anymore
again however I think too many perception of akainu vs whitebeard is colored by the anime , in the manga it’s clear that akainu is gotten unawares and he counters quickly and takes off half of whitebeard a face , in the anime akainu is shook and only takes a bit of his moustache off
Kinda feels like head cannon we have no idea how Gods valley actually panned out
I’m kinda betting on whitebeard leaving rocks and not partaking in the fight
There’s a lot of clear text that whitebeard ain’t that dude anymore
again however I think too many perception of akainu vs whitebeard is colored by the anime , in the manga it’s clear that akainu is gotten unawares and he counters quickly and takes off half of whitebeard a face , in the anime akainu is shook and only takes a bit of his moustache off
I think most here knows what happened to WB in the manga, with his face and all.
Anime showed it more like WB mid diff'd, manga showed it as a high-extreme diff
End result was same. WB had the W
WB, after all the nerfs (injuries and sickness), on top of old age, came out on top against Akainu. Though barely.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Nobody is arguing WB wasn't nerfed or anywhere near his peak in Marineford lol
There are three WB's we've seen in the series:
1. peak WB who equalled Roger
2. old WB on meds, weakened by old age of course. But whose haki still equaled Shanks (arguably the best haki user alive currently), and was still recognized the strongest pirate by pretty much everyone (fodder and top tier alike)
3. old WB off the meds for days, whose observation and conqueror's haki were basically non existent and just had the armament haki to damage logia users, and was having heart attacks in between the fights. This WB would win high-extreme diff upper level of admirals (like Akainu), and lose high diff against any of the other three Yonkos
I don't understand why the above three points aren't obvious. It's pretty much crystal clear and self explanatory to me.
I didn't even know the two bold ones were a thing lmao, guess it's because I haven't been here long enough. I started participating in OP discussions only a month or so ago
Zoro vs Sanji and Zoro vs Luffy discussions are annoying AF, cause anyone who reads the manga without a strong agenda knows crystal clear what the result will be in each case.
Luffy forever > Zoro
Zoro forever > Sanji
End.
I'm really interested about Mihawk vs Shanks. Hopefully we will get some flashback worth a few episodes at least
***************
Also, in hoping to change the topic, where do you all see Izo at? Personally, I see him at YC3-4 level
1. Izo vs Cracker
2. Izo vs Ulti
3. Izo vs Ovens
4. Izo vs Black Maria
I think most here knows what happened to WB in the manga, with his face and all.
Anime showed it more like WB mid diff'd, manga showed it as a high-extreme diff
End result was same. WB had the W
WB, after all the nerfs (injuries and sickness), on top of old age, came out on top against Akainu. Though barely.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Nobody is arguing WB wasn't nerfed or anywhere near his peak in Marineford lol
There are three WB's we've seen in the series:
1. peak WB who equalled Roger
2. old WB on meds, weakened by old age of course. But whose haki still equaled Shanks (arguably the best haki user alive currently), and was still recognized the strongest pirate by pretty much everyone (fodder and top tier alike)
3. old WB off the meds for days, whose observation and conqueror's haki were basically non existent and just had the armament haki to damage logia users, and was having heart attacks in between the fights. This WB would win high-extreme diff upper level of admirals (like Akainu), and lose high diff against any of the other three Yonkos
I don't understand why the above three points aren't obvious. It's pretty much crystal clear and self explanatory to me.
Again for me it’s a perception thing
Akainu left whitebeard in a way worse state than whitebeard left him
Akainu took some internal damage but was fine to fight off the entire WB crew and immiedatelty chase after
I can’t really call it a win when again le
The damage that whitebeard took won’t even work on akainu cause akainu was probably tougher at that stage plus his logia fruit
Wait what? iirc.. whitebeard got holes in his body to to Akainu punches, 20 - 25% of his head are missing due to akainu.. and i dont even remember Akainu have any battle scar after that war.. Akainu got battle scar only after his fight with Aokiji..
Basically Luffy (up until now) and Akainu are seems to be fine physically... But luffy got KO twice already... while i dont think Akainu ever got KO'd by WB..
I really think we have yet to see the admiral's (and chief admiral's) true mettle.
From what we've seen so far, seems like only Yonko (WB, Shanks) were able to worry Akainu. The commanders clearly seemed overmarched against Kizaru/Aokiji...
And their DFs are extremely hard to deal with.
Plus they have aCoA.
My opinion is they're between Yonko and YC1
Again for me it’s a perception thing
Akainu left whitebeard in a way worse state than whitebeard left him
Akainu took some internal damage but was fine to fight off the entire WB crew and immiedatelty chase after
I can’t really call it a win when again le
The damage that whitebeard took won’t even work on akainu cause akainu was probably tougher at that stage plus his logia fruit
Regardless, I hope you can see that if he didn't slide and fall off, WB would've 100% finished him off right then and there. Oda saved the dude by having him fall off, because he wants Akainu for future plots.
WB would've been heavily damaged, but by the end, he would've still been the victor.
Regardless, I hope you can see that if he didn't slide and fall off, WB would've 100% finished him off right then and there. Oda saved the dude by having him fall off, because he wants Akainu for future plots.
WB would've been heavily damaged, but by the end, he would've still been the victor.
