Discussion One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Crimson Ice]

I don't think anyone on that roof (Big Mom excluded) is withstanding a CoC infused attack.

Pretty sure Law took a COC infused Thunder Bagua irrc.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 29, 2021 ---

Kaido is significantly weakened and burnt out

Kaido's power has dropped, Yamato has confirmed this but you're overstating it. The fact him and Luffy split the sky means Kaido is still probably operating at an extremely high level.

 

[M3J]

Does anyone else find "Wano", the country of samurai disappointing? For a country the marines don't want to touch it's been a very poor showing. Perhaps if the country was fed and healthy they would seem better but the strongest power should be Asura Doji, Denjiro Kiku and Kawamatsu.

I'll do a better analysis after the whole arc and the reread but even with their geographical advantage they don't seem too capable without a Ryuuma or Oden level figure. Perhaps I'm overestimating the marines while underestimating them but we'll see how it goes.

Not really, when you think about the effect that Kaidou and Orochi had on the country, especially given their fear of a powerful samurai rising again. Plus as someone said, outdated information on Wano, and Kaidou being there would certainly make anyone wary, given Wano was likely super powerful back then.

 

[AmitDS]

Zoro broke all his bones stoppping 2 Yonkou’s attack before he was put down.

Another misrepresentation . Zoro paused Hakai for a second, he didn't block it. Law saved him and said he'd be dead if he stood in its way for a second more.

Kaido's power has dropped, Yamato has confirmed this but you're overstating it. The fact him and Luffy split the sky means Kaido is still probably operating at an extremely high level.

I agree. Yes, Kaido's power has dropped as per Yamato and evidenced by the island crumbling etc., but he hasn't been depowered to the point that people are portraying. I've seen a lot of people on other forums acting like Kaido has been reduced to the level of a YC or a bit above so as to not have Luffy clash/fight a ~Yonkou-levelled Kaido.

Spoiler

To complement this talking point, they also tout King as a supposed Yonkou-levelled, Kaido-equivalent character at the same time. Totally not related to an agenda related to a certain moss-headed someone .

 

[albertwv]

I may be late into the Gifter/Zoans discussion but I will add on.
The Gifters were a HUGE disappointment, in both character design (hideous) and threat level/power level. They were nothing but a comedic relief and an eye sore, especially the Headliners. Oda failed big time in that department, he could've made them terrifying since it is a Yonko Pirate crew of the most evil strongest pirate alive.

Aside from that I enjoy the crew's Zoan club, with Ancient Zoans in the mix and 1-2 Mythicals. I mean there should have been more Mythicals among the Calamaties for sure even 1 (King).
Among the F6 I enjoyed their Ancient Zoans, but they shouldve been stronger and Oda shouldve explained Black Marias DF in the story.
Back to the Headliners, since its an all Zoan ability crew, I was expecting to see some regular Zoans that we have yet to see in the story, heck like a Lion, a Zebra, another bird, a Rhino, a bug/insect, a Bear, a Gorilla, etc. The Smiles DF Zoan creations were a waste of plot.
I am not disappointed in the way that Oda made this arc for only Zoans fight (physical fights instead of Abilities), I think its great that Oda dedicated a whole arc to Zoans, when was the last time we saw a Zoan in action (Pekoms barely). WCI was for weird food DFs that was pretty lame but whatever.

How strong are the Gifter Headliners? Not strong at all for a Yonko pirate crew.

Also, I'm liking this Zolo vs King fight, seeing King unfazed by a Lion Song slash is amazing, I hope it doesnt end in one slash attack now that Zolo knows how to use CoC with CoA. Usually Zolos fights end in one slash after he figures out their abilities or has a flashback or whatever.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

a Zebra

Minozebra – OPwiki

opwiki.org

+ https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Minorhinoceros

 

[Crimson Ice]

Another misrepresentation . Zoro paused Hakai for a second, he didn't block it. Law saved him and said he'd be dead if he stood in its way for a second more.



I agree. Yes, Kaido's power has dropped as per Yamato and evidenced by the island crumbling etc., but he hasn't been depowered to the point that people are portraying. I've seen a lot of people on other forums acting like Kaido has been reduced to the level of a YC or a bit above so as to not have Luffy clash/fight a ~Yonkou-levelled Kaido.

Spoiler

To complement this talking point, they also tout King as a supposed Yonkou-levelled, Kaido-equivalent character at the same time. Totally not related to an agenda related to a certain moss-headed someone .

If Kaido's power has dropped to the level of a YC I don't think Yamato would have stated Luffy was the only person capable of beating him. Kaido's strength being downplayed is to undercut Luffy. A lot of the same people who downplay Kaido do what you're talking about in the spoiler

 

[XXGenesis]

Another misrepresentation . Zoro paused Hakai for a second, he didn't block it. Law saved him and said he'd be dead if he stood in its way for a second

Did the Hakai attack stop?? Yes.

Why, because Zoro stopped the attack by blocking it for a few seconds…There’s a whole manga page of the scene. Take from it what you will.

Law was only able to change everyone’s position because Zoro went in for the block and gave him time.

Nobody is debating the events afterwards Zoro managed to momentarily stop their combined attack

 

[AmitDS]

Did the Hakai attack stop??

Nope. It was slowed down by a second

Why, because Zoro stopped the attack by blocking it for a few seconds…There’s a whole manga page of the scene. Take from it what you will.

Which is it? Stopped it or blocked it for a second ie slowed it down? lol And yup, there is a manga panel about it, I suggest you re-read that and Law's subsequent dialogue and actions.

Law was only able to change everyone’s position because Zoro went in for the block and gave him time.
Nobody is debating the events afterwards Zoro managed to momentarily stop their combined attack

Zoro did attempt to block it yes, but he didn't stop the attack as you're trying to present. He slowed it down for a second and that was enough for Law to swap him out of danger. I don't see the confusion here.

 

[LaGOAT]

Yes, beginning of Wano Luffy.

He got one shot by thunder bagua from base Kaido

Thunder Bagua from hybrid Kaido got tanked without much issues by Law

Unless you mean to say that rooftop Law is leagues tankier than beginning of Wano Luffy (who's borderline YC1 tier), in G4 and brimming with armament haki , then this makes no sense.
Hence outlier



Awakening doesn't help here. The dude got blitzed and hit, his DF doesn't even come into picture here

Again u forgetting about boundman and snakeman part.



g4 boundman luffy at Imo was yc2 lvl that why katakuri was dominated him and base kaido oneshot him kaido can low/no diff Yc2 commander.
Snakeman luffy puts him damn near yc1 IMO snakeman>boundman.

And I keep telling u the 2 week TS before the raid gave every1 a boost that the part u keep missing. Therefore law pre 2 week TS<law post 2 week TS

 

[JStackz26]

People are really putting rules on what opinions they can have lol. Let people be human.

Also by the way, I was reading something and people said Sanji can't have Conqueror's Haki because he does not exert his will over people.

Example would be bobbins, the cow, banana gator, the desert animal the trio fought
and Sanji literally reconstructed Duval's face. Reconstructed Wanze's face and reconstructed it back to normal, and literally reconstructed Yonji's face to the point they had to use a machine to fix it, what he did to Niji, basically had his own Vinsmokes parent treated like a punk by him and basically swayed Bege from behaving like his normal take the head of leaders self, was able to sway Crocodile and carried out deceiving him, was able to sway Ivankov, he has imposed his will numerous times. The food incident in Wano as well. Amassed followers who protected the Thousand Sunny for two years as well.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

People are really putting rules on what opinions they can have lol. Let people be human.

Also by the way, I was reading something and people said Sanji can't have Conqueror's Haki because he does not exert his will over people.

Example would be bobbins, the cow, banana gator, the desert animal the trio fought
and Sanji literally reconstructed Duval's face. Reconstructed Wanze's face and reconstructed it back to normal, and literally reconstructed Yonji's face to the point they had to use a machine to fix it, what he did to Niji, basically had his own Vinsmokes parent treated like a punk by him and basically swayed Bege from behaving like his normal take the head of leaders self, was able to sway Crocodile and carried out deceiving him, was able to sway Ivankov, he has imposed his will numerous times. The food incident in Wano as well. Amassed followers who protected the Thousand Sunny for two years as well.

Again sanji is a leader , but he’s not of kingly disposition , he doesn’t dominate folks
Of everyone I expect to have it’s probably crocodile tbh

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 30, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 30, 2021 ---

Again u forgetting about boundman and snakeman part.



g4 boundman luffy at Imo was yc2 lvl that why katakuri was dominated him and base kaido oneshot him kaido can low/no diff Yc2 commander.
Snakeman luffy puts him damn near yc1 IMO snakeman>boundman.

And I keep telling u the 2 week TS before the raid gave every1 a boost that the part u keep missing. Therefore law pre 2 week TS<law post 2 week TS
[/QUOTE]

It’s for purpose , snake man isn’t necessarily stronger than bound man , bound man had better defense and raw power , snake man is more agile with higher speed , control and raw speed attack , each form depends on what he needs in a fight
In the fight against kaido he’s used boundman more , why ? He needs more raw power

 

[grey matter]

Literally nobody is saying Kaido dropped to YC level.
We just state the obvious that Kaido is significantly weakened (to the point Yamato worries the dude will run out of gas soon), and that beating him won't get Luffy to Yonko tier.
Not only because of this, but also narrative reasons (too soon to reach that level when there are probably 3 more arcs to go). It makes more sense that Luffy gets to admiral tier now, both by feats and for narrative reasons. Admirals and BB still have to be a threat.

Luffy will be admiral tier when the arc ends IMO. I suppose those who think luffy isn't Yonko tier have secret Zoro agenda -_-

Again u forgetting about boundman and snakeman part.



g4 boundman luffy at Imo was yc2 lvl that why katakuri was dominated him and base kaido oneshot him kaido can low/no diff Yc2 commander.
Snakeman luffy puts him damn near yc1 IMO snakeman>boundman.

And I keep telling u the 2 week TS before the raid gave every1 a boost that the part u keep missing. Therefore law pre 2 week TS<law post 2 week TS

Snakeman was just faster. Boundman is as tanky as Snakeman, if not tankier.

Maybe you can argue that King's brute stats is much higher than Katakuri, could be possible since he's ancient Zoan and looks like someone relying on stats, while Katakuri's style revolves around future sight.
But, I don't think Kaido can one shot Katakuri either, Katakuri at minimum is giving Kaido a low diff

Let's forget even that. You actually think Law is leagues tankier than G4 Luffy in beginning of Wano? Cause that's what is necessary for both the feats to make sense.
IIRC even the Scabbards tanked some hits from Kaido.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Literally nobody is saying Kaido dropped to YC level.
We just state the obvious that Kaido is significantly weakened (to the point Yamato worries the dude will run out of gas soon), and that beating him won't get Luffy to Yonko tier.
Not only because of this, but also narrative reasons (too soon to reach that level when there are probably 3 more arcs to go). It makes more sense that Luffy gets to admiral tier now, both by feats and for narrative reasons. Admirals and BB still have to be a threat.

Luffy will be admiral tier when the arc ends IMO. I suppose those who think luffy isn't Yonko tier have secret Zoro agenda -_-




Snakeman was just faster. Boundman is as tanky as Snakeman, if not tankier.

Maybe you can argue that King's brute stats is much higher than Katakuri, could be possible since he's ancient Zoan and looks like someone relying on stats, while Katakuri's style revolves around future sight.
But, I don't think Kaido can one shot Katakuri either, Katakuri at minimum is giving Kaido a low diff

Let's forget even that. You actually think Law is leagues tankier than G4 Luffy in beginning of Wano? Cause that's what is necessary for both the feats to make sense.
IIRC even the Scabbards tanked some hits from Kaido.

I maintain the one shot was a mistake by Oda to overhype kaido, I thinka brutal barrage of 3-10 hits would have worked just as hype

 

[grey matter]

I maintain the one shot was a mistake by Oda to overhype kaido, I thinka brutal barrage of 3-10 hits would have worked just as hype

Yep . Just Lucci 2.0

Lucci no diff'd base luffy in R1. And Luffy in R2 did all right against Lucci even in base, and was almost equal to his hybrid form in G2

At this point, hype phase should be defacto taken as outlier

 

[XXGenesis]

Nope. It was slowed down by a second


Which is it? Stopped it or blocked it for a second ie slowed it down? lol And yup, there is a manga panel about it, I suggest you re-read that and Law's subsequent dialogue and actions.



Zoro did attempt to block it yes, but he didn't stop the attack as you're trying to present. He slowed it down for a second and that was enough for Law to swap him out of danger. I don't see the confusion here.

[]

It Travels from its source & its is Slowed down & Stopped!! In front of Zoro…..Until Law teleports everyone from in front the blast explodes forward again

Why the perspective on Zoro feats always gotta be downplayed….Same as when Kaido says the man used CoC to hurt him, everyone denies it…smh.

Same way Kaido mentions only a chosen fee can use CoC such a way. Yet Luffy is just leagues ahead of Zoro…Smh.

Ya like being wrong or suttin!

 

[Crimson Ice]

Again u forgetting about boundman and snakeman part.



g4 boundman luffy at Imo was yc2 lvl that why katakuri was dominated him and base kaido oneshot him kaido can low/no diff Yc2 commander.
Snakeman luffy puts him damn near yc1 IMO snakeman>boundman.

And I keep telling u the 2 week TS before the raid gave every1 a boost that the part u keep missing. Therefore law pre 2 week TS<law post 2 week TS

Snakeman isn't stronger than Boundman. In regards to Luffy vs Katakuri, Snakeman was just the better matchup against Katakuri.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 30, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 30, 2021 ---

[]

It Travels from its source & its is Slowed down & Stopped!! In front of Zoro…..Until Law teleports everyone from in front the blast explodes forward again

Why the perspective on Zoro feats always gotta be downplayed….Same as when Kaido says the man used CoC to hurt him, everyone denies it…smh.

Same way Kaido mentions only a chosen fee can use CoC such a way. Yet Luffy is just leagues ahead of Zoro…Smh.

Ya like being wrong or suttin!

Luffy is noticeably stronger than Zoro.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Till the awakened conquerors , Zoro was noticeably behind Luffy
Cause they had comparable base powers , and but luffy kinda blows Zoro in regard to all advanced uses of haki
Armored : luffy had flow and stage 3 as well as emission , Zoro still doesn’t , or hasn’t show it
COO : luffy has future sight , Zoro hasnt
COC : luffy has advanced conquerors, Zoro just gained ( which for me not a fan of still Oda could have made Zoro a conscious user ages ago to balance things out , this is literally like coby going straight to future sight when he awakened it marineford ( or if luffy did too )

maybe Zoro can do well against gear 2 + gear 3 luffy , but even with just base haki uses , I think gear bound man and snakeman still puts luffy over the top

 

[Pirate Queen]

I feel like the only change between Zoro and Luffy now is that Luffy can't beat Zoro in base anymore and would need to use gears to beat Zoro.

Luffy with Future Sight, Advanced CoA Imternal Damage, and Advanced CoC, G2+G3+G4 is still Mid/High-Diffing Zoro.

Zoro(if he is actually has Advanced and it's looking like that may be the case) can only cancel out Luffy's use of CoC. It does nothing for Luffy's other Advanced forms.

 

[grey matter]

Till the awakened conquerors , Zoro was noticeably behind Zoro
Cause they had comparable base powers , and but luffy kinda blows Zoro in regard to all advanced uses of haki
Armored : luffy had flow and stage 3 as well as emission , Zoro still doesn’t , or hasn’t show it
COO : luffy has future sight , Zoro hasnt
COC : luffy has advanced conquerors, Zoro just gained ( which for me not a fan of still Oda could have made Zoro a conscious user ages ago to balance things out , this is literally like coby going straight to future sight when he awakened it marineford ( or if luffy did too ) )

For me Zoro had advanced armament since timeskip, and showed it against Pica. IMO Oda didn't focus on it for the same reason he didn't when Sabo showed it, cause he wanted it to be a future plot point.
This also explains Zoro instantly learning advanced conqueror's. Cause they use very similar, if not identical, principles

But yes, this is just following the regular pattern (like in Enies Lobby).
Luffy gets powerup first, and Zoro gets his sometime after. By the end of the arc, Zoro always end up somewhat relative to Luffy, capable of giving him mid-high diff, or high diff fight

Also, regarding future sight, IMO Luffy's future sight isn't as good or consistent like Katakuri's. Seems like he learned it enough to just somewhat negate the future sight of Katakuri
For instance, he doesn't seem to predict any decent fighter's future move in this arc, from Apoo to King/Queen to Kaido/BM. Many of the hits Luffy took in this arc (I'd argue even more than 90%), Katakuri wouldn't take them
IMO Future sight would be just a bonus than a deciding factor in Luffy vs Zoro.


And yes, I agree Zoro getting advanced conqueror's so quickly is complete BS. Not to advanced part itself, but that he even learned how to control his basic conqueror's haki

I feel like the only change between Zoro and Luffy now is that Luffy can't beat Zoro in base anymore and would need to use gears to beat Zoro.

Luffy with Future Sight, Advanced CoA Imternal Damage, and Advanced CoC, G2+G3+G4 is still Mid/High-Diffing Zoro.

Zoro(if he is actually has Advanced and it's looking like that may be the case) can only cancel out Luffy's use of CoC. It does nothing for Luffy's other Advanced forms.

Whoa, you think Zoro can give Luffy a mid-high diff? Interesting

For me, advanced conqueror's was never a game changer against "normal" opponents. Not when Luffy got it, not when Zoro got it either
It just seems super powerful cause it's being used on Kaido who is kinda immune to everything not advanced. Same with Zoro against King who also seems like having some insane defence to usual attacks

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

For me Zoro had advanced armament since timeskip, and showed it against Pica. IMO Oda didn't focus on it for the same reason he didn't when Sabo showed it, cause he wanted it to be a future plot point.
This also explains Zoro instantly learning advanced conqueror's. Cause they use very similar, if not identical, principles

But yes, this is just following the regular pattern (like in Enies Lobby).
Luffy gets powerup first, and Zoro gets his sometime after. By the end of the arc, Zoro always end up somewhat relative to Luffy, capable of giving him mid-high diff, or high diff fight

Also, regarding future sight, IMO Luffy's future sight isn't as good or consistent like Katakuri's. Seems like he learned it enough to just somewhat negate the future sight of Katakuri
For instance, he doesn't seem to predict any decent fighter's future move in this arc, from Apoo to King/Queen to Kaido/BM. Many of the hits Luffy took in this arc (I'd argue even more than 90%), Katakuri wouldn't take them
IMO Future sight would be just a bonus than a deciding factor in Luffy vs Zoro.


And yes, I agree Zoro getting advanced conqueror's so quickly is complete BS. Not to advanced part itself, but that he even learned how to control his basic conqueror's haki



Whoa, you think Zoro can give Luffy a mid-high diff? Interesting

For me, advanced conqueror's was never a game changer against "normal" opponents. Not when Luffy got it, not when Zoro got it either
It just seems super powerful cause it's being used on Kaido who is kinda immune to everything not advanced. Same with Zoro against King who also seems like having some insane defence to usual attacks

There’s literal no sound or style indicatin that Zoro used advanced armament , even at that , flow wasn’t needed to take on pica , it was a raw power battle , putting armament on weapons doesn’t automatically makes you a flow user . Does that mean vergo was using flow ? Or smoker ?
heck even in the anime which uses a visual indicator for when flow is being Zoro , Zoro isn’t shown using it

eh in ennies lobby using their enemies as their benchmark , kaku was a high diff for Zoro . He not even comparable at all to luffy/lucci

and advanced haki are significant game changers no matter the application

it adds extra damage