One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

goldb

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Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

  • For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
  • Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
  • Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
  • We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

  1. Shanks v Mihawk
  2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
  3. Zoro > Luffy
  4. Zoro v Sanji
  5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
  6. Mihawk's rank within the story
  7. Law having CoC currently.
  8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.
 
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grey matter

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I think for the vast majority of physical fighters in the series, Cracker is an impassable wall. Even Luffy needed the Nami assist. Only DF mismatches, top-tiers, and assists are getting through Cracker's biscuit army. It's a pretty astonishing ability defensively. That said, Mihawk? I can't not see him effortlessly one-shotting Cracker. Even Zoro might not win 1v1 as he is, it's just such a lop-sided ability against physical fighters. That said, that assessment will probably change post-Wano. Zoro and Sanji have been fun to try placing in my personal tier table as Wano lurches onward.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---


I think Marines are underestimated here. But I mostly agree about the hierarchy within each group.
--- Double Post Merged, ---

thats what I'm saying. crackers defense is nuts. how is sub-yonkou level guys gettin past his biscuit army 1 on 1. spoiler - they dont
If someone isn't really fast enough, then Cracker vs whoever turns into a battle of endurance.

The enemy will keep breaking the Biscuit warriors either any of them gets tired.

But certainly, against anyone who isn't speedy enough, Cracker can make them work for hours and hours to get a win, Even if they're conventionally speaking above Cracker's level.
--- Double Post Merged, ---

I think for the vast majority of physical fighters in the series, Cracker is an impassable wall. Even Luffy needed the Nami assist. Only DF mismatches, top-tiers, and assists are getting through Cracker's biscuit army. It's a pretty astonishing ability defensively. That said, Mihawk? I can't not see him effortlessly one-shotting Cracker. Even Zoro might not win 1v1 as he is, it's just such a lop-sided ability against physical fighters. That said, that assessment will probably change post-Wano. Zoro and Sanji have been fun to try placing in my personal tier table as Wano lurches onward.
Mihawk and current Zoro/Sanji would smoke Cracker.
They are speedy warriors who can move and attack fast.

Whether Cracker lasts or nor is dependent on whether Cracker can create Biscuit warriors faster than they go down.

Beginning of WCI G4 Luffy almost beat him. He got through all the Biscuit warriors and just when he was about to land the blow on Cracker himself, he conveniently ran out of time. And this is after he wasted some time in G4 trying to figure out Cracker's ability.
With intel, beginning of WCI Luffy wins that fight with G4 in the very first round

The issue with Luffy is that, prior to getting advanced armament and conqueror's, Luffy could fight at a high level only through his G4, which has a time limiter.
 

I Am Atomic

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Beginning of WCI G4 Luffy almost beat him. He got through all the Biscuit warriors and just when he was about to land the blow on Cracker himself, he conveniently ran out of time. And this is after he wasted some time in G4 trying to figure out Cracker's ability.
With intel, beginning of WCI Luffy wins that fight with G4 in the very first round
I have seen you say this multiple times now. Especially the King Kong Gun nearly beating Cracker, but that was anime only I believe.

Do tell me if I am wrong though
 

grey matter

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I have seen you say this multiple times now. Especially the King Kong Gun nearly beating Cracker, but that was anime only I believe.

Do tell me if I am wrong though
Is that so? I don't know lol, I've been anime only until WCI was finished
 

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I think for the vast majority of physical fighters in the series, Cracker is an impassable wall. Even Luffy needed the Nami assist. Only DF mismatches, top-tiers, and assists are getting through Cracker's biscuit army. It's a pretty astonishing ability defensively. That said, Mihawk? I can't not see him effortlessly one-shotting Cracker. Even Zoro might not win 1v1 as he is, it's just such a lop-sided ability against physical fighters. That said, that assessment will probably change post-Wano. Zoro and Sanji have been fun to try placing in my personal tier table as Wano lurches onward.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---


Makes me wonder though, would Luffy have needed Nami's help if he came up with the plan much earlier?

and wtf is that chart? Whatever happened to "S rank, A rank, this tier, that tier?" on the left column??

I thought Daz bones is impossible to cut if you can't cut steel. But if someone punched hard enough, he can still be hurt right? It's not like he can only be defeated by cutting him.

Also how does haki affect him? Does haki allows them to hurt him easily? Luffy can be hurt by a single flick by Garp with haki. So it should be the same for him even though his steel body is a passive ability.
Yeah, I think Alabasta Luffy could hurt Daz, but the problem would be the blades cutting/wounding his body parts before he does damage. CoA would prevent that because of the defense, as long as Daz doesn't have CoA or superior CoA.

I thought the steel/blade body was a conscious ability, like turning into smoke or gas.

I think Luffy can be hurt by Haki because he's soft. However in Mr. 1 or Jozu case, you also have to surpass their hardness.


Doflamingo couldn't hurt Luffy with Gear 4 using blunt attacks, but since Luffy avoided all of his strings, I think it's safe to assume they could hurt him. I presume if Cracker tried to punch Luffy, the soft-hard rubber would also counter it.
How does haki affect devil fruit power? Does it negate it or just make it tangible? FOr example, if you hit Akainu while he's in magma mode, does it negate the area that the fist lands, or does haki just make it tangible and allows Akainu to get hurt even in magma mode?

If it's the latter, then I agree, you'd have to get past the hardness. If it negates the fruit power completely, then maybe not.
 

grey matter

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How does haki affect devil fruit power? Does it negate it or just make it tangible? FOr example, if you hit Akainu while he's in magma mode, does it negate the area that the fist lands, or does haki just make it tangible and allows Akainu to get hurt even in magma mode?

If it's the latter, then I agree, you'd have to get past the hardness. If it negates the fruit power completely, then maybe not.
IIRC this was explained in the Punk Hazard arc

They said, unlike sea stones, haki doesn't negate the powers of the devil fruit. It just allows you to hit DF users somehow

It kinda makes sense against Logia users, by basically damaging the "Essense".
I'm still not sure how haki allows Luffy to be damaged by physical attacks lmao. The guy is still rubber, you have to go through his rubbery body to damage him
 

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IIRC this was explained in the Punk Hazard arc

They said, unlike sea stones, haki doesn't negate the powers of the devil fruit. It just allows you to hit DF users somehow

It kinda makes sense against Logia users, by basically damaging the "Essense".
I'm still not sure how haki allows Luffy to be damaged by physical attacks lmao. The guy is still rubber, you have to go through his rubbery body to damage him
ah probably because CoA is hard enough to damage Luffy's rubber body. It seems as long as there's strength or hardness, it'll hurt Luffy.

But if true, then it's a difficult fight against Jozu and Daz without haki or weapon that can get past the defense.
 

Core D. Roy

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and wtf is that chart? Whatever happened to "S rank, A rank, this tier, that tier?" on the left column??
I have a distaste for S/A/B/whatever tier lists. I'd rather something more abstract than concrete tiers. The squares just subtly separate the characters into roughly three basic "top tiers".
 

Fox666

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How does haki affect devil fruit power? Does it negate it or just make it tangible? FOr example, if you hit Akainu while he's in magma mode, does it negate the area that the fist lands, or does haki just make it tangible and allows Akainu to get hurt even in magma mode?

If it's the latter, then I agree, you'd have to get past the hardness. If it negates the fruit power completely, then maybe not.
According to Rayleigh, Haki allows someone to damage Devil Fruit users because it hit their real bodies.

However, we have seen Rayleigh and Whitebeard preventing Kizaru from turning into light. Although it seems Haki's potential to interfere with Devil Fruits is very limited.

Generally speaking, it's magic vs magic, don't think much. It depends of the plot.
 

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I have a distaste for S/A/B/whatever tier lists. I'd rather something more abstract than concrete tiers. The squares just subtly separate the characters into roughly three basic "top tiers".
I'm joking, I find the whole tier list in a manga like this to be ridiculous as it's also about matchups and whatnot. A weakling could beat a strong opponent just by outsmarting them or proper preparation, and not because they're stronger.

According to Rayleigh, Haki allows someone to damage Devil Fruit users because it hit their real bodies.

However, we have seen Rayleigh and Whitebeard preventing Kizaru from turning into light. Although it seems Haki's potential to interfere with Devil Fruits is very limited.

Generally speaking, it's magic vs magic, don't think much. It depends of the plot.
Ugh, that's annoying. I hope we see how haki affects stuff like diamond body or blade fruit, as it'd be easier to predict and debate. Luffy getting hurt makes sense because he doesn't have defense beyond his rubber, but can Jozu be hurt by an attack laced with haki?
 

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I believe all commanders specialize in something. So yes there may be differences in overall power between YC3-YC1. A fight between any of these tiers minimum should be low-mid Diff…

Cracker’s DF skill is top notch; His Waves of Biscuit Soldiers is very powerful, & such a great strategy for his abilities . Doesn’t matter who it is, You are gonna have to break the Bisxuit Soldiers faster than Cracker can make them; Wipe them all out in one go, or somehow approach cracker directly roundabout back to destroying biscuit soldiers faster than he can make em or react.

I think Luffy can be hurt by Haki because he's soft. However in Mr. 1 or Jozu case, you also have to surpass their hardness.


Doflamingo couldn't hurt Luffy with Gear 4 using blunt attacks, but since Luffy avoided all of his strings, I think it's safe to assume they could hurt him. I presume if Cracker tried to punch Luffy, the soft-hard rubber would also counter it.
Strings did no damage to Luffy; They stalled him/tied him up/biuncedDoffy couldn’t hurt Luffy in G4; Not even with Haki because his Haki is weaker than Luffy’s

Did you forget Katakuri punched Boundman in his stomache & hurt him right….

Doffy’s kick didn’t work because his Haki was too weak…

I have seen you say this multiple times now. Especially the King Kong Gun nearly beating Cracker, but that was anime only I believe.

Do tell me if I am wrong though
No it happened in the manga also. KKG was about to wipe out the wave of soldiers & Cracker himself, but Luffy reached his limit:




Makes me wonder though, would Luffy have needed Nami's help if he came up with the plan much earlier?

and wtf is that chart? Whatever happened to "S rank, A rank, this tier, that tier?" on the left column??


Yeah, I think Alabasta Luffy could hurt Daz, but the problem would be the blades cutting/wounding his body parts before he does damage. CoA would prevent that because of the defense, as long as Daz doesn't have CoA or superior CoA.

I thought the steel/blade body was a conscious ability, like turning into smoke or gas.



How does haki affect devil fruit power? Does it negate it or just make it tangible? FOr example, if you hit Akainu while he's in magma mode, does it negate the area that the fist lands, or does haki just make it tangible and allows Akainu to get hurt even in magma mode?

If it's the latter, then I agree, you'd have to get past the hardness. If it negates the fruit power completely, then maybe not.
Glad you said something. Because visually that list is horrible & confusing ASF!

Nami’s help was a Hard counter for Cracker’s DF ability, made them Easily breakable, even edible. Idk how it plans out with Luffy failing 1st attemp, running for 10mins, then he’s back at Square 1, a wave of soldiers…Luffy would have to risk or be confident that next G4 transformation Cracker is going down; His enemies isn’t gonna let him run away Haki less twice;

Haki still has it mysteries & complications still ; Yes haki negates DF ability & No. IMO it’s some DF ability but not all.
Really confusing yes I know;

Vergo tried to block Law’s DF with haki/ My takeaway is that Law’s Haki was better.**ex of a character trying to negate an ability with haki

Law couldn’t move Big Mom Or Kaido inside a room; because their Haki was way too great…*Haki Passively Negating a DF ability.


Logia’s
Haki will allow you to hit them; Defend but not negate their ability.

Ex…Smoker vs Vergo; Vergo told him he’s foolish to use his smoke form; It just gave Vergo more surface area to hurt him.

Akainu’s magma form, Haki will allow you to hit him in magma form, however CoA is only providing minor defense from getting burnt; Haki cannot stop Akainu from turning into magma, or stop the magma from burning w/e it touches..Haki only allows you to resist the heat not negate.





IIRC this was explained in the Punk Hazard arc

They said, unlike sea stones, haki doesn't negate the powers of the devil fruit. It just allows you to hit DF users somehow

It kinda makes sense against Logia users, by basically damaging the "Essense".
I'm still not sure how haki allows Luffy to be damaged by physical attacks lmao. The guy is still rubber, you have to go through his rubbery body to damage him
Haki does negate some DF abilities. It’s all confusing and not explained thoroughly.

it’s been explained that Haki is the reason why Luffy received physical damage from ppl like Garp….Haki is ignoring his whole Rubber constitution & allow him to be hurt physically….

Same thing would happen to Buggy. If a Haki user cuts him, Buggy is bleeding; he’s not separating….

ah probably because CoA is hard enough to damage Luffy's rubber body. It seems as long as there's strength or hardness, it'll hurt Luffy.

But if true, then it's a difficult fight against Jozu and Daz without haki or weapon that can get past the defense.
I can show you Moria stomping on Luffy, with him receiving no damage…Luffy has never been hurt physically without haki…

I have a distaste for S/A/B/whatever tier lists. I'd rather something more abstract than concrete tiers. The squares just subtly separate the characters into roughly three basic "top tiers".
That’s fine. Glad I ain’t say it first. That list is visually horrible.

S/A/B are trash tier list, unless the story gives you such rankings…The D/E/F ranks would be huge ass hell with no big differentiation, as to what qualities separate the tiers

Fandom of One Piece tiers works best with Titles/ Position. We know Their are Titles/position in the One Piece World that sit above others, & majority of them are gained through strength.
 

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How does haki affect devil fruit power? Does it negate it or just make it tangible? FOr example, if you hit Akainu while he's in magma mode, does it negate the area that the fist lands, or does haki just make it tangible and allows Akainu to get hurt even in magma mode?

If it's the latter, then I agree, you'd have to get past the hardness. If it negates the fruit power completely, then maybe not.
Haki is simply a bypass for Devil Fruits and "touch" the individual.

If you hit Akainu while he's in magma mode, he will feel the hit as if he's a regular person, but he will still be in said form. We've seen that with Ceasar Clown and Smoker, who have both been hit or even grappled while in their intangible forms. The only difference is, I imagine, while you got the hit in on him, you will still get burned depending on your level of haki. But that's just for Logia, which don't usually possess the same sort of toughness as certain Paramecia, like Jozu's fruit.

But if you look at Ancient (Dinosaur) Zoans and Kaido's Dragon Fruit, which, as we are currently seeing, we see that just having basic Haki isn't enough to get the job done as their physical durability/hides are too tough and formidable. With Rayleigh's explanation, their hides wouldn't matter as regular haki would still bypass it, but that's clearly not the case.

Then there's the possibility that those characters are potentially bolstering their already stacked defenses with haki as well and things get a bit more muddled. Maybe said haki defense keeps their powers from being overtaken? It's never been brought up.

In theory, any haki infused attack on a regular non-haki using Diamond Fruit user should be effective. In theory. But between the current showing of Dino Zoans and their durability and the vague intricacies of haki, things aren't as clear-cut as Rayleigh made it out to be.
 

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Reminder. Cracker is awakened.
 

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Glad you said something. Because visually that list is horrible & confusing ASF!

Nami’s help was a Hard counter for Cracker’s DF ability, made them Easily breakable, even edible. Idk how it plans out with Luffy failing 1st attemp, running for 10mins, then he’s back at Square 1, a wave of soldiers…Luffy would have to risk or be confident that next G4 transformation Cracker is going down; His enemies isn’t gonna let him run away Haki less twice;

Haki still has it mysteries & complications still ; Yes haki negates DF ability & No. IMO it’s some DF ability but not all.
Really confusing yes I know;

Vergo tried to block Law’s DF with haki/ My takeaway is that Law’s Haki was better.**ex of a character trying to negate an ability with haki

Law couldn’t move Big Mom Or Kaido inside a room; because their Haki was way too great…*Haki Passively Negating a DF ability.
Still makes me wonder though. Didn't Luffy win easily and quickly after coming up with a plan? What if he did that at the start instead?

Oh I thought he was trying to block Law's sword, not his devil fruit ability.


Logia’s
Haki will allow you to hit them; Defend but not negate their ability.

Ex…Smoker vs Vergo; Vergo told him he’s foolish to use his smoke form; It just gave Vergo more surface area to hurt him.

Akainu’s magma form, Haki will allow you to hit him in magma form, however CoA is only providing minor defense from getting burnt; Haki cannot stop Akainu from turning into magma, or stop the magma from burning w/e it touches..Haki only allows you to resist the heat not negate.
oh that's a good point, but HereNThere pointed out zoan's hides providing good defense even against haki, so confusion again unless you mean only logias are affected by the bypass

I can show you Moria stomping on Luffy, with him receiving no damage…Luffy has never been hurt physically without haki…
Haki is simply a bypass for Devil Fruits and "touch" the individual.

If you hit Akainu while he's in magma mode, he will feel the hit as if he's a regular person, but he will still be in said form. We've seen that with Ceasar Clown and Smoker, who have both been hit or even grappled while in their intangible forms. The only difference is, I imagine, while you got the hit in on him, you will still get burned depending on your level of haki. But that's just for Logia, which don't usually possess the same sort of toughness as certain Paramecia, like Jozu's fruit.

But if you look at Ancient (Dinosaur) Zoans and Kaido's Dragon Fruit, which, as we are currently seeing, we see that just having basic Haki isn't enough to get the job done as their physical durability/hides are too tough and formidable. With Rayleigh's explanation, their hides wouldn't matter as regular haki would still bypass it, but that's clearly not the case.

Then there's the possibility that those characters are potentially bolstering their already stacked defenses with haki as well and things get a bit more muddled. Maybe said haki defense keeps their powers from being overtaken? It's never been brought up.

In theory, any haki infused attack on a regular non-haki using Diamond Fruit user should be effective. In theory. But between the current showing of Dino Zoans and their durability and the vague intricacies of haki, things aren't as clear-cut as Rayleigh made it out to be.
So it's kinda fruitless having debates like this since we have no idea how haki truly affects paramecia.
 

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Reminder. Cracker is awakened.
Reminder, headcanon is headcanon. My gods I wish people would stop saying headcanon as matter of fact.

If you have a source, cough it up because as far as I know that's never stated at all.
 

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was he? i cant even remember
Reminder, headcanon is headcanon. My gods I wish people would stop saying headcanon as matter of fact.

If you have a source, cough it up because as far as I know that's never stated at all.

That's not all broken biscuit soldiers.
Cracker is absolutely awakened. No headcanon. Read the panels. Or will you only allow something if it's expressly stated? The manga is the source.
 

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I think you don't know what the word "absolutely" means. Can you and that other dude not just use the word "probably" or "maybe"? Do you not know what the word "headcanon" means? Duh, explicit statements in the manga or SBS means you get to make explicit claims about an element of the story. THE MANGA IS THE SOURCE INDEED. You linked a bunch of pages that have zero support for Cracker being awakened. Is it possible Cracker is awakened? Sure. Is it possible he just has a busted-ass devil fruit? Certainly. Are you pulling facts out of your ass? ABSOLUTELY.

Is Crocodile awakened? Based on what we can infer, almost certainly. Do I go around stating it as ABSOLUTE fact? No, because it's literally not an ABSOLUTE fact until it is in the manga or SBS. Fucking fuck why is this incredibly simple thing so hard for some people.

Community members have a level one responsibility to not be misleading like they're writing baby's first wiki article. Check yourself, goddamn.
Chapter 838 is where Cracker explains his devil fruit. The ground in 837 and 838 has the same look. In the pictures linked the ground has changed to biscuits. The ground is not changed in the same way Cracker makes his soldiers. Crackers devil fruit affected the environment. Specifically the ground of the forest. Cracker is awakened. Check yourself, goddamn.
 

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Cracker is absolutely awakened. No headcanon. Read the panels. Or will you only allow something if it's expressly stated? The manga is the source.
Neither the manga nor One Piece wiki say he's awakened. There's no reason to believe you, especially if all you have is "read the panels."
 
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