The thing is we saw how strong Ace was in the Manga, sorry I do not draw references from anything outside the manga. I don't reference the Vivre cards, databook, anime and even this novel. I only use what the manga shows. Because I know that that info is not incorrect and it comes 100% from Oda.
We've seen Jimbei do better than Ace, who supposedly according to you is stronger than Jimbei.
Ace handled Smoker rather poorly for somebody his level, then we see Doffy destroy a stronger VA Smoker so effortlessly.
I refuse to believe that Doffy could lose to Ace until it is proven somehow on the manga that Ace could have defeated somebody of that caliber.
Ace was not YC3 at 17 years of age. Did yall forget what Shanks told WB? Shanks acknowledged that Ace was strong but it was too early for him to be hanging with the big guns and Ace let all that get to his head thinking he was a big shot because he was the 2nd DC of the WBP.
Ace being near YC1 and above Jozu or Vista is hilarious. Katakuri would smoke him real quick, faster than he did Luffy. Jozu made Aokiji bleed a little, Ace only was able to fend off with FIRE an ICE attack from Aokiji. Yet you think that puts Ace above Jozu?
Plus it doesnt seem like Ace had any specialty in Haki.
Ok, let's ignore novel, since you don't wanna consider it
Lot of powerscaling issues is due to Oda introducing some characters too early.
Look at Crocodile, this guy is the perfect example. The guy lost to base Luffy in Alabasta. But at Marineford, he was more impressive than even G2 Luffy. He was treated as someone decently strong even by the likes of Sengoku and Doflamingo
And no way he doesn't know haki. The guy used to roam the new world GL, until he challenged WB and was sent packing. Alabasta Luffy should've been fodder to him, even with water coating and whatnot,
Oda's intention of having Ace stalemate Jinbe is quite clear.
It's clear portrayal that 17 years old Ace and Jinbe are extremely close in PL
What do you mean "Ace wasn't YC3 tier at 17"? If you agree Jinbe is YC3 tier, the manga outright places him at YC3 at 17 years old
What Shanks specifically said was that he would likely lose to BB. That doesn't mean Ace isn't on commander levels lol.
Shanks cited BB being incredibly strong, even before getting the dark-dark fruit, as one of the main reason. He points to BB giving him a scar in legitimate combat. BB was also offered 2nd commander position before Ace
BB was YC2+ before the fruit, and is even stronger after fruit. Shanks was right to be worried there. Ace has no shame in losing to BB in a high diff, while having DF disadvantage
Katakuri would smoke Ace based on what? AOE attacks are actually great against Katakuri's future sight
Jozu was able to make Aokiji bleed, so what? Aokiji wasn't paying attention. Ace equalled an attack from Aokij, which is a better feat IMO. Fending off Ice with Fire doesn't imply what you think it does (assuming you're going the route of DF advantage argument), do you think this is pokemon lol? Logically, ice should be even more effective against fire than water, cause to vapourize Ice, you need more energy than to vapourize water
Vista probably is YC1 tier too, the dude fought equally with a casual Mihawk (who is likely Yonko tier), and Mihawk was impressed with him. Vista being above Ace is all right
See this is why there is an issue with powerscaling and it's not Oda's fault. People are trying to debate if Roger and WB were equals or not. Sigh* What more has to be shown or stated? Why can't manga fans, most of the time male fans, get that people can have perfect rivals/equals in these series?
Ehh, it's more an issue of accomplishments/clout as well
What is WB's main hypes?
- Even as old and not in peak, he was strongest pirate as long as he wasn't off meds for too long. Good hype.
- But his greatest hype and fame comes from the fact that he was said to be a match for Roger.
What is Garp's main hypes?
- Hero of the marine, due to God Valley. But, nobody in the current era even knows why he's the hero of the marines since WG erased everything about God Valley, most young marines probably assume the title was because of chasing Roger and finally capturing him (though last part is fake)
- He was a match for Roger. This is Garp's greatest claim to fame, at least among people of modern era who doesn't know of God Valley
See the patterns here?
Both WB's and Garp's greatest hype and claim to fame are that they were "a match for Roger"
Roger is the benchmark which raises these two characters.
This is why a lot of people (or at least I) place Roger slightly ahead of both of them. The margin is very small, but there. Roger had greater accomplishments and clout
This is like the "Laxus vs Jellal" thing in FT
Yea, they're portrayed around same level. We know Jellal is strong on his own, even taking Laxus out of the picture entirely. But at this point, it is his portrayal with Laxus that does the heavylifting for the dude's power. Cause Laxus has had more impressive accomplishments since GMG arc.
IK this is a more extreme example (since Mashima trolls Jellal, while WB is treated with great respect by Oda), but kinda demonstrates the point
