One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[XXGenesis]

Roger & WhiteBeard are for the most part Equal in terms of combat. Roger is WB superior because of other qualities that don’t have much to do with strength…..If they were to fight it’s 6/10 Roger as a bias. But it’s really 5/5 Stalemate. Oda represents WB as Rogers equal & rival.

The Yonkou IMO aren’t at that lv but close. Garp as their Marine rival IMO was as strong as the current Yonkou are now. In his old age his power has wane closer to say BlackBeard’s lv.

Titles are exactly that. Kaido is an Oni not a human. So he’s titles as a creature, the strongest out there, WhiteBeard was a man & the strongest out there, same as with Mihawk when it comes to swords he’s the strongest swordsman. Roger was the Pirate King because he sailed the entire Grandline, as a Pirate & no has ever done so.

 

[grey matter]

Roger & WhiteBeard are for the most part Equal in terms of combat. Roger is WB superior because of other qualities that don’t have much to do with strength…..If they were to fight it’s 6/10 Roger as a bias. But it’s really 5/5 Stalemate. Oda represents WB as Rogers equal & rival.

The Yonkou IMO aren’t at that lv but close. Garp as their Marine rival IMO was as strong as the current Yonkou are now. In his old age his power has wane closer to say BlackBeard’s lv.

Titles are exactly that. Kaido is an Oni not a human. So he’s titles as a creature, the strongest out there, WhiteBeard was a man & the strongest out there, same as with Mihawk when it comes to swords he’s the strongest swordsman. Roger was the Pirate King because he sailed the entire Grandline, as a Pirate & no has ever done so.

I actually lean towards Roger winning the fight 6 out of 10 times.
WB winning 4 out 10 times does mean he's extremely close and out there

As for current Yonkos, I think there is significant gap between prime WB/Roger and them. Reasons:
- WB, even when old and past his prime, was still the strongest pirate (note: he's also referred to as world's strongest pirate, not just WSM). As long as he isn't off his meds for too long. This WB has haki on par with Shanks, arguably the strongest haki user alive
- Oden looked like he could've given Kaido an extreme diff fight, or high diff at least. But, Roger was completely on another level.
Yes, Kaido could've grown stronger in 20 years. But he was 39 years when he fought Oden, which means closer to his peak if not in his peak. Any growth for Kaido in the 20 years would be small IMO. Kaido still puts Oden on a pedestal.
Prime Garp would be ahead of all current Yonko, since he and Roger were extremely close in power.


Kaido also has portrayal of strongest pirate currently alive, with the "in a 1v1, always bet on Kaido".
What is nebulous for me is Mihawk's "Worl'd strongest swordsman". Does this include Shanks? Cause Shanks is a swordsman apparently. So are Roger and Rayleigh, but Roger is dead and Rayleigh is long past his prime; so I don't find that an issue

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 14, 2021, Original Post Date: Dec 14, 2021 ---

I checked, apparently WB was WSM even when Roger was alive.
Couldn't find vivre card itself, but saw people referencing it and discussing.

Not sure how that's consistent when they're apparently "equals"??

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 14, 2021 ---

Seems like there are contradictions in the main series to the vivre card as well.

Shiki said that nobody could stop Whitebeard, and the era now belongs to him. Since Roger died.
So, the only guy who WB couldn't get past was Roger then??

Main series also says WB was basically the defacto PK and ruled the seas after Roger died. Says he could've taken the throne whenever he wanted, but wasn't interested.
Doflamingo says something like he stood at the throne, but not on it, after Roger died.

Everything apparently seems to point towards Roger being the only one WB can't get past.

 

[Fox666]

I think they were extremely close, but Roger a bit stronger. Same for prime Garp too
If Roger is 100, prime WB is 99. Prime Garp 99 or 98

Nobody can fight seriously for days without getting actual injuries. I think these "characters fought for x days" is just Oda's way of saying the characters involved are incredibly close if not outright equals

I think the manga it more than clear that if Roger is 100, then Whitebeard is 100.

 

[grey matter]

I think the manga it more than clear that if Roger is 100, then Whitebeard is 100.

Ehh, doesn't manga actually consider Roger a slight superior?

Shiki said that nobody could stop Whitebeard, and the era now belongs to him. Since Roger died.
So, the only guy who WB couldn't get past was Roger then??

Main series also says WB was basically the defacto PK and ruled the seas after Roger died. Says he could've taken the throne whenever he wanted, but wasn't interested.
Doflamingo says something like he stood at the throne, but not on it, after Roger died.

Everything apparently seems to point towards Roger being the only one WB can't get past.

*************

According to manga, it seems like Roger is 100 and WB 99

But according to Vivre card, it seems like WB is 100 and Roger is 99

lol

*************

Actually, where do people even get Vivre card info from? I searched online and couldn't find anything

 

[Ricko]

If Ace was really that strong why didnt he finish off Smoker back in Alabasta easily? They were stalemated. Or are we not counting that battle.

Why should he finish a such weaker opponent, Ace is not a bloodthirty pirate like Doflamingo. His goal was to find Luffy, not to engage the Marine.
Just imagine he beat the pulp of Smoker at Alabasta, the only reply would be is to have Vice-admirals, or maybe even Admiral to come as payback.
With is "weak" (at current time) little brother around, that would not be the best choice.

 

[I Am Atomic]

If Ace was really that strong why didnt he finish off Smoker back in Alabasta easily? They were stalemated. Or are we not counting that battle.

You do realise that Ace would have murdered Smoker with his eyes closed, right? Ace had haki and Smoker didn't.

It's same as when Ace and Aokiji clashed. Their DF negated each other out. However, we see later in the story that Ace have better DF attacks compared to Smoker. Even in DF control, Ace is better.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

No way. If Doffy survived a meteor falling from the sky from an Admiral, im sure he could cut the fire. Physical stats Ace didnt seem that strong and even with haki.
BB wanted him to join his crew because BB was just starting, im sure none of his other crew members before ID inmates, were that strong or F6 level. BB knew Ace was strong so of course.



Marco and WB were the ONLY ones? Lol no way, dude Jozu and Vista would smash on Ace. Yeah he was equal or stronger than Jimbei but that doesnt mean he is YC2 level. Like I mentioned, Jimbei aint that high up on the YC list. I doubt Jimbei is YC3 level. I dont see Jimbei defeating Cracker or Doffy level opponents.

If Ace was really that strong why didnt he finish off Smoker back in Alabasta easily? They were stalemated. Or are we not counting that battle.
BB vs Ace... we've seen plenty of time of how BB underestimates his opponents, Ace, Magellan, WB, Sengoku...
Again, Ace is overestimated because he is popular but say he wasnt this popular he wouldnt be labeled this strong.
YC1? Pfft no.
YC2? just because he was 2nd Division Commander? Lol nope.
YC3? Close very close.
YC4? Seems about right.

I hear what you’re saying but what do you think Oda is doing by making Sanji beat the 3rd strongest in kaidos crew with ease and making Zoro struggle against the 2nd strongest. I think he’s trying to show us a serious and awakened Sanji I close in combat prowess to Zoro.

I know this looks like a SvZ post but I think Z is stronger and I’m a S fan.
But Back to queen queen has shown me he can actually disable a fairly strong BM a BM Udon prison Luffy couldn’t fight.

Queen unfortunately unfortunately got the Sanji treatment in the Beast pirate crew but him fighting Marco even tho being on the losing end and then holding off most of the samurai withhis underlings and then Sanji is worthy of a YC feat. We are in the endgame SHP need monster power ups. To keep up

Ace and smoker translation makes it a relationship of DF , the manga doesn’t make it look like a draw , way more inconclusive
Plus ace fought jinbei who was way above smoker

 

[M3J]

Cringe* It's giving racist (hope you're actually Indian).
I know reading is an issue for some but I told you I am a guy. Why are you calling me Pooja? What even is this convo?
An attempt was made.



Yeah and I told you that your example wasn't applicable because WB and Roger are not treated like Goku and Vegeta. Find another example lol next time an accurate one.



It's a kid series. They fought for days and tied and they are constantly wanked as characters who are equal/evenly matched. If that doesn't add up to you then hate to break it to you but that's a 'you' problem lol!

If you called me Becky or Janet, even though I'm a male, I wouldn't care less. I call everyone that, and if you get offended, it's a you problem as that's not the intention. And you also made an attempt, given I said "or a guy version of the name."


Not really, there's nothing wrong with questioning the manga and even the Vivre Cards. Some things can be taken for fact, and some things don't have to be, especially if there's something that might imply otherwise. I have no reason to believe that Roger and Whitebeard were truly equal, just as you have no reason to believe the manga isn't wrong.

Seems like there are contradictions in the main series to the vivre card as well.

Shiki said that nobody could stop Whitebeard, and the era now belongs to him. Since Roger died.
So, the only guy who WB couldn't get past was Roger then??

Main series also says WB was basically the defacto PK and ruled the seas after Roger died. Says he could've taken the throne whenever he wanted, but wasn't interested.
Doflamingo says something like he stood at the throne, but not on it, after Roger died.

Everything apparently seems to point towards Roger being the only one WB can't get past.

That doesn't seem like a contradiction though. It's possible that Shiki thinks Whitebeard wanted to become the Pirate King or that he and Roger were rivals/enemies, but Whitebeard's flashback and Kinemon (or one of the Scabbards') flashback shows that Whitebeard and Roger were friendly rivals, and that Whitebeard had no intention of becoming the Pirate King, or even cared. Roger was not an obstacle that Whitebeard couldn't overcome, Roger wasn't an obstacle at all as far I can deduce because neither men were evil or hated each other. Whitebeard likely had no problem with Roger going to Raftel, and Roger had no problem with Whitebeard sailing the seas.

What Doflamingo and Shiki say aren't necessarily facts, just what THEY think. Whitebeard's flashback is a fact (for now) because of what we see Whitebeard and Roger doing and discussing.

 

[grey matter]

That doesn't seem like a contradiction though. It's possible that Shiki thinks Whitebeard wanted to become the Pirate King or that he and Roger were rivals/enemies, but Whitebeard's flashback and Kinemon (or one of the Scabbards') flashback shows that Whitebeard and Roger were friendly rivals, and that Whitebeard had no intention of becoming the Pirate King, or even cared. Roger was not an obstacle that Whitebeard couldn't overcome, Roger wasn't an obstacle at all as far I can deduce because neither men were evil or hated each other. Whitebeard likely had no problem with Roger going to Raftel, and Roger had no problem with Whitebeard sailing the seas.

What Doflamingo and Shiki say aren't necessarily facts, just what THEY think. Whitebeard's flashback is a fact (for now) because of what we see Whitebeard and Roger doing and discussing.

So, WB >= Roger?

 

[M3J]

So, WB >= Roger?

Who knows? Signs point that they're equal in strength, but Whitebeard's made it clear that he never wanted to become the Pirate King and wasn't competing with Roger for the title. It's possible that they could have seriously fought to the death at one point though and tied.

 

[grey matter]

Who knows? Signs point that they're equal in strength, but Whitebeard's made it clear that he never wanted to become the Pirate King and wasn't competing with Roger for the title. It's possible that they could have seriously fought to the death at one point though and tied.

Ok. But why would be he WSM when Roger was alive?

Doesn't this suggest WB >= Roger?

 

[M3J]

Ok. But why would be he WSM when Roger was alive?

Doesn't this suggest WB >= Roger?

Probably? It could mean that Whitebeard's title came from his devil fruit, if not his literal strength, since he had the power to destroy the world if he wanted. Thing is, no one has ever mentioned Whitebeard beating Roger, just that they were either equals or Roger became Pirate King while Whitebeard didn't, so it's a bit ambiguous. I mean, has Whitebeard used his fruit against Roger? If so, how did Roger counter that? etc

NOt enough info to go on, other than a skirmish and what characters have said. I'm going off memory though, so I could be way off the mark here.

 

[LaGOAT]

Rogers and WB are PK lvl they are equals that’s a fact the current yonko ain’t on the their lvl with the Exception of maybe xebec.
Old sick wb was still consider the strongest and was yonko lvl at the Minimum which is till crazy

 

[grey matter]

Rogers and WB are PK lvl they are equals that’s a fact the current yonko ain’t on the their lvl with the Exception of maybe xebec.
Old sick wb was still consider the strongest and was yonko lvl at the Minimum which is till crazy

Are they equals though?

If yes, why was WB called WSM when Roger was alive?

Manga makes it seem like Roger >= WB
Vivre card makes it seem like WB >= Roger

But yea, what is sure is that the gap between them is miniscule.

Probably? It could mean that Whitebeard's title came from his devil fruit, if not his literal strength, since he had the power to destroy the world if he wanted. Thing is, no one has ever mentioned Whitebeard beating Roger, just that they were either equals or Roger became Pirate King while Whitebeard didn't, so it's a bit ambiguous. I mean, has Whitebeard used his fruit against Roger? If so, how did Roger counter that? etc

NOt enough info to go on, other than a skirmish and what characters have said. I'm going off memory though, so I could be way off the mark here.

Ehh, I don't think it was because of fruit. It was def because of overall PL

Like, some fodder having this fruit wouldn't be called WSM for instance.

 

[AmitDS]

If you called me Becky or Janet, even though I'm a male, I wouldn't care less. I call everyone that, and if you get offended, it's a you problem as that's not the intention. And you also made an attempt, given I said "or a guy version of the name."

Oh please. You tried to be funny and it fell flat. Idc how you would feel if it were you. It's lame and came across as a frustrated incel trying. And it really just looks like you thought I was a white girl daring to speak about anime/manga (easy target) and you could try that crap with me because you got mad.

Not really, there's nothing wrong with questioning the manga and even the Vivre Cards. Some things can be taken for fact, and some things don't have to be, especially if there's something that might imply otherwise. I have no reason to believe that Roger and Whitebeard were truly equal, just as you have no reason to believe the manga isn't wrong.

Question based on some evidence. Advice. You just thinking they weren't equal just because, lacks a foundation and will never give you an answer. Question what you want idc it's just funny to me to see people online on these forums have these powerscaling issues still. Oda has given us no reason to question if WB was equal to Roger and seeing others claim that Roger is stronger because he's special or w/e (he's 100 while WB is 99.999999999999999) just makes this whole 'questioning' thing more funny.

You guys can never accept equals or rivals in any series and it always comes down to this. Hilarious. Reminds me of Naruto weirdos trying to find a strongest sannin even though they are called a deadlock, stated to be able to beat one another and are based on the Japanese rock/paper/scissors. Same shit, diff toilet.

 

[M3J]

Ehh, I don't think it was because of fruit. It was def because of overall PL

Like, some fodder having this fruit wouldn't be called WSM for instance.

Probably a mix of both? But I guess that depends on when he got the title and when he ate the devil fruit.

Oh please. You tried to be funny and it fell flat. Idc how you would feel if it were you. It's lame and came across as a frustrated incel trying. And it really just looks like you thought I was a white girl daring to speak about anime/manga (easy target) and you could try that crap with me because you got mad.



Question based on some evidence. Advice. You just thinking they weren't equal just because, lacks a foundation and will never give you an answer. Question what you want idc it's just funny to me to see people online on these forums have these powerscaling issues still. Oda has given us no reason to question if WB was equal to Roger and seeing others claim that Roger is stronger because he's special or w/e (he's 100 while WB is 99.999999999999999) just makes this whole 'questioning' thing more funny.

You guys can never accept equals or rivals in any series and it always comes down to this. Hilarious. Reminds me of Naruto weirdos trying to find a strongest sannin even though they are called a deadlock, stated to be able to beat one another and are based on the Japanese rock/paper/scissors. Same shit, diff toilet.

"Tried to be funny" is a lame response, when one didn't care to be funny. And no, I knew you were an Indian male from the start.

"Evidence." Real evidence would be us seeing Whitebeard vs. Roger all out or one of them saying they're equal, other characters saying it isn't necessarily a fact, especially when Oda can use those characters to influence readers' thoughts one way and throw a swerve chapters later. It has nothing to do with power scaling issues, especially since I don't give a shit about the either two, it's called trying to have a discussion and going by what the manga has implied.

 

[AmitDS]

"Tried to be funny" is a lame response, when one didn't care to be funny. And no, I knew you were an Indian male from the start.

Then you were just lame af. Next time, use Becky when addressing a privileged white girl.

"Evidence." Real evidence would be us seeing Whitebeard vs. Roger all out or one of them saying they're equal, other characters saying it isn't necessarily a fact, especially when Oda can use those characters to influence readers' thoughts one way and throw a swerve chapters later. It has nothing to do with power scaling issues, especially since I don't give a shit about the either two, it's called trying to have a discussion and going by what the manga has implied.

Nope real evidence is everything we have thus far: a fight, statements & portrayal.
@Bold The manga implied, stated and even showed, in a fight for days, that they are equal, though. You thinking that fight wasn't enough is irrelevant.

 

[albertwv]

Im not saying Ace = Smoker, nope not at all. I was pointing out the differences between Pre TS Smoker vs Ace and Post TS Smoker vs Doffy. Because Doffy is clearly YC3 and why Ace is barely YC3 or above.

I point out that in Ace vs Smoker, Im sure Ace would have beaten Smoker, but why didnt he? It should have been an easy fight for Ace who apparently knew haki and was stronger than Jimbei. Take the haki consideration out since Haki wasnt a real thing back then yet. Ace should have still beaten Smoker rather easier than what their fight showed. The fight showed them as equals in a way, both couldnt get past each other IIRC. I say again, I do NOT believe Ace = Smoker. Smoker was chasing trying to capture Luffy, Ace's little brother and we know how important Luffy is to Ace, so why didnt Ace just beat up Smoker instead of running away.
The admiral/VA back up theory is bullshit. Ace did not care if he beat up Smoker and then an admiral would have been dispatched. By then Ace and the SHs would have been long gone and plus Ace was not scared of an Admiral.

Doffy decimated Smoker fairly easy, and this was a Smoker who was stronger. So I dont see how Ace would have been able to defeat Doffy. I dont know how people see that that is possible, simply because he fought Jimbei years ago, now he is stronger? I dont see Jimbei defeating Doffy either. nope. Those would be extremely diff fights for Doffy but he would win.

One last thing on Ace vs Aokiji, we have seen how Aokiji fared agaisnt Akainu a clearly superior DF user to both Aokiji and Ace. Aokiji and Akainu seem equals. Then we see how Akainu vs Ace ended. So why do people think Ace = Aokiji or near Aokiji's level simply because his Fire DF negated one Ice Attack from Aokiji. It makes no sense. If Aokji was serious he would have killed Ace just like Akainu did, well with a little bit more difficulty but still.

Regarding WB vs Roger debate,
@grey matter I dont know where you get the Vivre card info, but in the manga it simply states WB was the WSM. The manga does not explain when he got that title, if he got it after Rogers death or before. I am going to assume he got it afterwards until stated otherwise. Why? Because we knew for sures he was WSM 2 years ago, thats it.
I dont like referencing VC, I told you because it gives off confusing information. I remembered it said Shanks was a Yonko when he met Luffy but the actual manga said 6 years ago. Then VC also claimed Shanks had the highest bounty among Yonkos and it was 3 Billion. Now we see how incorrect it was.

IMO, Roger > WB, just slightly.

 

[Core D. Roy]

Then VC also claimed Shanks had the highest bounty among Yonkos

Really? I don't recall seeing that

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

You also have to see disposition
Commander ace isn’t a vindictive or aggressive person
There was ability clash that makes fighting smoker weird for ace
Doffy wanted smoker dead
Ace wasn’t interested at all in defeating smoker