One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Like I said the Kata hype is High
You gotta be an insanely gifted and smart fighter to get to a YC/YC1+ level

 

[Core D. Roy]

I think we've seen enough to make the post Wano list now, assuming Luffy will win with extreme diff or something against Kaido.

Here is my list, with characters on and above Yonko commander level. Let me know what you guys think.
(Not including characters purely based on hype, like Imu or Kong.)

Spoiler: Yonko+

Roger / Whitebeard (prime)
Garp (prime)

Spoiler: Yonko tier

Whitebeard (old: in meds)
Kaido/ BigMom (soul buffed)
BigMom/ Shanks/ Sengoku (prime)/ Mihawk/ Shiki (prime)
Rayleigh (prime)
Oden
Whitebeard (old: off meds for days)
Akainu
Blackbeard

Spoiler: admiral tier

Luffy
Aokiji
Scopper
Rayleigh (old)/Kizaru
Fujitora/Greenbull

Spoiler: YC1+

Law
Kid
Marco
Zoro
Yamato

Spoiler: YC1 tier

King
Katakuri
Ace
Vista
Sanji

Spoiler: YC2 tier

Cat/Dog (sulong)
Jozu
Killer
Queen
Kyoshiro

Spoiler: YC3 tier

Thatch
Doflamingo
Shutenmaru
Jinbe/Jack/Cracker
Cat/Dog (base)

Spoiler: Bonus/Headcanon/Prediction

Imu: Yonko +
Gorosei: Yonko
Dragon: Yonko
Kong: Yonko
Ben Beckman: admiral
Sabo: YC1+
Smoothie: YC2
Enel: YC3

Explanation for some positions I think might cause most disagreements.

1. Akainu being Yonko tier, while Aokiji not
I think they were great match for each other. Their DF cancelled out each other, while their haki are even.
But, Akainu's ceiling is higher than Aokiji's. Because Akainu's attack power is probably the highest in the verse. Point being, an attack landing from Akainu is more deadly than which lands from Aokiji.
Plus, Oda hyping up him by saying he would've become PK in an year or two. etc
But if someone disagrees, pointing to Akainu extreme diffing Aokiji, I can understand that as well.


2. Luffy not in Yonko tier
Luffy vs Kaido started with Kaido more tired than Luffy. If fight starts with both at full power, Kaido will high diff end of Wano Luffy IMO
Luffy's will as a conqueror has reached Yonko level, but not in other stats.
Again, if you think Luffy is Yonko tier, I see where you're coming from and can respect that as well.


3. Doflamingo's position
He can strike above his level and can be beaten by characters below his level as well. Due to his DF.
His DF mastery and stats are lopsided. His DF mastery is like admiral tier, while stats being on upper Tobiroppo/Yonko-executive tier.
I just averaged it out and put him in YC3 tier.


4. Ace's position
His position is based on scaling up from his fight against Jinbe. Plus using info from the Ace novel as well.
Ace being introduced before haki was properly developed, has lead to him being downplayed by the community in general IMO.
Sidenote: Thatch's position is because he was stronger than Ace, and by extension Jinbe, in the beginning of Ace's stay in WB's ship.

Interesting how we have some intersections.

Ace was extremely difficult to place because of all the post-mortem content. For me his placement came down to the fact that his three biggest fights were with Jinbe, Blackbeard, and Yamato. That alone should be substantive for whereabouts to place him.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Interesting how we have some intersections.

Ace was extremely difficult to place because of all the post-mortem content. For me his placement came down to the fact that his three biggest fights were with Jinbe, Blackbeard, and Yamato. That alone should be substantive for whereabouts to place him.

How do you have post Wano Luffy on the same tier as Marco?

Unless I'm reading your chart wrong. It's super weird. Haven't seen one like that before

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 3, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 3, 2022 ---

My Wano Tier List now
1. Kaido
2. Big Mom = Luffy
4. Marco = Yamato
5. Law
6. Kidd
7.Zoro>=Sanji
8. King>=Queen
9. Jinbei
10. Killer

Unless I missed anything.

I feel like this is pretty solid for now unless something drastic happens

 

[Core D. Roy]

How do you have post Wano Luffy on the same tier as Marco?

Unless I'm reading your chart wrong. It's super weird. Haven't seen one like that before

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 3, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 3, 2022 ---

My Wano Tier List now
1. Kaido
2. Big Mom = Luffy
4. Marco = Yamato
5. Law
6. Kidd
7.Zoro>=Sanji
8. King>=Queen
9. Jinbei
10. Killer

Unless I missed anything.

I feel like this is pretty solid for now unless something drastic happens

I put Marco at the bottom of S as sort of the 'gatekeeper' of that tier. From a lot of things, but especially the vibe I got from the Gorosei worrying about Marco taking up Whitebeard's reigns and his portrayal in the raid. Luffy's just now reaching that level, or at the very least has crossed the threshold into S territory.

Ya it's weird, but a table format makes more sense to me for powerscaling than a normal tier thing. Oh and "Post-Wano" means basically current versions of those characters since they've all seem to have used their big guns (except Luffy, but I doubt I'll place him any higher until the next arc or three). Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Kidd, and Law all have different placements before Wano and as of current events.

 

[GL_Nova]

Looks like we are all changing our perspectives on Yonko. I do hope this does not mean we see the Admirals higher than the Yonko.
To me 1 Yonko > 1 Admiral, it would take 2 Admirals to effectively defeat 1 Yonko. I still respect the strength of the Yonko individually.
Oda screwed up on having Kaido and BM vs 5 Supernovas. This lowered the Yonko's value.
Initially, I thought fighting Kaido was going to be like Bullet fight, where there was all the Supernova rookies fighting 1 godly beast (Bullet) and Bullet nonchalantly smashing through each one and being defeated by 5/6 extremely strong individuals.
That's how i thought Kaido was gonna go down, with all the Supernova in Wano (Hawkins, Drake, Kid, Apoo, Killer) were going to betray Kaido and ally themselves with Luffy to defeat Kaido, with BM out of the picture. In a power level sense it would be more sensible.

No it wouldn’t. Bullet fought a weaker Luffy so it made sense for him to need that many people to win. Luffy was always gonna leave Wano a Yonko tier fighter. He only has 2 maybe 3 big fights left. An most of us don’t really see him fighting Shanks or needing to fight him for real. I wouldn’t be surprised if Shanks crew doesn’t have Luffy’s face them in a series of challenges that are no different than a training arc. That said, the idea that Kaido wasn’t gunna end up going down in a 1v1 with Luffy never made sense to me. That’s not how Luffy beats big names in this series. When he says he’s gunna kick somebodies ass, it’s gonna be Luffy who kicks their ass.

 

[McNuss]

Like I said the Kata hype is High

And I am not the usual one to hype powerlevels. But we've seen the Beast Pirates now and I think we have to get over with it. A lot of the hype around them was unwarranted and they aren't any stronger than the Big Mom or Whitebeard Pirates. And alltogether the hype around these crews in the timeskipverse wasn't worth that much either, but is very consistent with Marineford (which ended with the WB Pirates getting their ass kicked due to numbers). The top has been presented to us over 400 chapters ago, and now we are at that top!

Which means that:

1. There won't be much stronger or weaker villains any more.

2. Zoro had already been fucking ridiculously strong at the start of the timeskip. Which may mean the Luffy/Zoro dynamic never changed since it was presented visually in Whiskey Peak!
-2.1 In turn, there won't be much growth for Zoro any more. He's already crazy. In fact, ZKK isn't that stupid from a powerlevel perspective but very dumb from a plot perspective. In fact, Zoro could very well be the strongest character but he makes a very crucial mistake and that's why Luffy is always stronger. The more you laugh...Try it, this actually works irl.
-- 2.2 The revelation of Zoro being ridiculous means there's only Mihawk or Admirals next.

3. Sanji's power-up was crazy, easily making the character climb many tiers
- 3.1 Which in turn means there won't be much growth for Sanji either and yes, an Admiral is not that much out of the possibility any more as the recent power up fixed his most crucial weakness, the weak body.

4. There will be a lot of growth for Usopp, who is weak. It's pretty explicit that his moveset doesn't hold a candle against the New World Elite.

5. Not much space nor need, but neither disadvantage from plot perspective nor risk of powerlevel inflation for power-ups for the other Strawhats. Could go either way, but not much space.

6. Admirals may actually differ a lot more than we thought before in strenght, and there might be a seperation with them in terms of strenght (Likely Sakazuki/Kuzan > Kizaru/Fujitora/Ryukugyu or Sakazuki/Kuzan/Kizaru > Fujitora/Ryukugyu) in order to keep Luffy>/=Zoro>>Sanji intact. Keep in mind, fights can involve a different level of challenge so Sanji beating an Admiral would not neccesarily mean that he is as strong as Zoro.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Jack probably would've gotten up after that attack from Zoro. It will also be far from Zoro's strongest cut, given we still have at least one more big saga until the Manga concludes. Zoro himself could have probably blocked it.

King is a cheater, just like Marco. He relies on his racial traits to prevent taking damage, and he is actually not that capable of taking damage. Hence the "glass" part. He has very high destructive capabilities, hence the "cannon" part. This is obviously all within context of his respective powerlevel group. I wasn't comparing YC to... let's say Nami, who is more of a glass canon in the overall context of characters. I thought that would be clear based on the overall context of the post.

Marco is a cheater, too, but his cheat is much more powerful, being based on his stamina. However, his destructive potential is much lower and his overall fighting capacity is nowhere above average within his own tier, Take away all Devil Fruits, and he is among the weakest of YC.

Katakuri is something else. Haki is not a cheat, its a basic ability that everyone can learn (aside from CoC), and Katakuri is the best Haki user among the YC, quite by far as he mastered CoO beyond equal and is also pretty good at CoA. None of the "YC" have aCoC (lol), but Katakuri at least can also use CoC. On top of that he is a masterful hand to hand combattant, a masterful sniper, quite fast, quite durable, can fight with a trident, too. A fighting genius, he quickly coped with Snakeman and simply dodged. Dodging is the most powerful skill in fighting, as it prevents you from taking damage, and Katakuri can pretty much dodge forever as CoO is based on concentration and he is pretty good at that as well.

What would any of the other guys even do against him? None of them can hit him!

Jack is getting back up from multiple ACOC slashes from Zoro? Let's just stop with the nonsense. If Jack was in King's position he would have went down without Zoro needing to use ACOC.

Calling Marco and King cheaters for using their abilities is HILARIOUS. Regardless of what you consider 'CHEATING' King can take a load of damage. Even without his racial abilities, King is still a dinosaur type zoan, the tankiest type of zoan bar the actual dragon myth zoan. Oda had to have King fight like an idiot for Zoro to win. King by any stretch of the imagination isn't a glass cannon.

Saying Marco is the weakest of his tier by removing his fruit doesn't mean much. You take any DF based YC and do the same and now they're the weakest. The same applies to Katakuri, his FS is soo potent because he can use his devil fruit in tandem with it. You also claimed that Marco had below-average destructive potential but in the same breath gas up Kat? The same Kat who beat up on Luffy for hours and couldn't win? Out of Kat, Marco and King, the one you shitted on the most is the strongest out of the three.

 

[grey matter]

Interesting how we have some intersections.

Ace was extremely difficult to place because of all the post-mortem content. For me his placement came down to the fact that his three biggest fights were with Jinbe, Blackbeard, and Yamato. That alone should be substantive for whereabouts to place him.

Yeah, Ace is quite difficult to place.

All we know is that his floor is Jinbe, considering he stalemated Jinbe when he was just a rookie.

His two Ls came down to being countered by characters who are two of the strongest characters alive currently.
I don't think it's much of a shame to go down to BB or Akainu.

His feats, even discounting the novel is all right - Stalemating Jinbe as a rookie, stalemating Yamato when he was 18

Regarding your list. I think you're underestimating the admirals (the current 3), but otherwise all right.
IMO all admirals (past or present) are stronger than every character in Wano except Kaido, BM and Luffy.

Also I see that I forgot Rocks and Weevil lol. They were to go in my headcanon/prediction list.
Rocks - Yonko+
Weevil - YC1+ (probably same level as Marco)

 

[Core D. Roy]

Yeah, Ace is quite difficult to place.

All we know is that his floor is Jinbe, considering he stalemated Jinbe when he was just a rookie.

His two Ls came down to being countered by characters who are two of the strongest characters alive currently.
I don't think it's much of a shame to go down to BB or Akainu.

His feats, even discounting the novel is all right - Stalemating Jinbe as a rookie, stalemating Yamato when he was 18

Regarding your list. I think you're underestimating the admirals (the current 3), but otherwise all right.
IMO all admirals (past or present) are stronger than every character in Wano except Kaido, BM and Luffy.

Also I see that I forgot Rocks and Weevil lol. They were to go in my headcanon/prediction list.
Rocks - Yonko+
Weevil - YC1+ (probably same level as Marco)

Yuh it just feels weird going back and reading Alabasta and knowing what what we know now? Ace could've just snapped a finger and utterly dominated Crocodile blindfolded lol.

Green Bull in my Unknown column always gets paired next to Fuji, who himself is pretty hard to place. Fuji and Kizaru share a similar problem in that we haven't seen either one go all out- Fuji was entirely holding back in Dressrosa for professional reasons, and Kizaru can't ever be arsed to go all out for personality reasons. Their placements are subject to change.

I put Weevil much higher (though still in the Unknown column) based on sheer portrayal. It's clear Oda has plans for him and every appearance has had him crazy hyped up. He's going to be a wickedly powerful wildcard down the line imo. "As strong as a young Whitebeard" is some pretty heady shit for the WG to be making claims about. Just like Marco, it's not entirely about feats but also narrative portrayal. I think both are above the YC1+ space and firmly above the threshold into S tier below the emperors.

 

[I Am Atomic]

Yeah Weevil is no way Prime WB level.

Oda likes to falsely hype characters. Kaido went from "nobody can hurt me" to "everybody can hurt me"

 

[Core D. Roy]

Yeah Weevil is no way Prime WB level.

Oda likes to falsely hype characters. Kaido went from "nobody can hurt me" to "everybody can hurt me"

They didn't say Prime WB, they said "young WB". I didn't place him at Prime WB anyways, they're at opposite ends of the S tier.

 

[grey matter]

Yeah Weevil is no way Prime WB level.

Oda likes to falsely hype characters. Kaido went from "nobody can hurt me" to "everybody can hurt me"

They didn't say Prime WB, they said "young WB". I didn't place him at Prime WB anyways, they're at opposite ends of the S tier.

Yeah, it's quite ambiguous.

Probably, intentionally from Oda lol.
He wants to do something with Weevil and probably has a vague idea, but things aren't set in stone.
So, he's leaving himself some wiggle room, so that when he finally fixes Weevil's power level and create a solid role for him in the story, it wouldn't feel like some BS.


The young WB could be WB when he set out as a rookie at 18 years old or something (for eg, him reminiscing of his wish for a family, when his then captain asked him if he wanted treasure)
This WB is probably a top tier commander level, but below Yonko tier for sure

Or it could be the "young" WB when he was still in Rocks' crew, during the God Valley incident.
This WB would be in 32 years old or something (i.e still 'young'), so he was probably close to his peak. This WB was Yonko tier, or maybe even Yonko+


Which "young" would Oda use?
Let's wait and see!
The way it's set up. Weevil could be Yonko tier, and it wouldn't feel like an asspull. Weevil could be top Yonko commander tier, and it wouldn't feel like a downgrade as well.
Oda has set himself up such that, he cannot fail here! Unless Weevil ends up being some fodder lol (which has 0.000001% chance)

 

[Core D. Roy]

Yeah, it's quite ambiguous.

Probably, intentionally from Oda lol.
He wants to do something with Weevil and probably has a vague idea, but things aren't set in stone.
So, he's leaving himself some wiggle room, so that when he finally fixes Weevil's power level and create a solid role for him in the story, it wouldn't feel like some BS.


The young WB could be WB when he set out as a rookie at 18 years old or something (for eg, him reminiscing of his wish for a family, when his then captain asked him if he wanted treasure)
This WB is probably a top tier commander level, but below Yonko tier for sure

Or it could be the "young" WB when he was still in Rocks' crew, during the God Valley incident.
This WB would be in 32 years old or something (i.e still 'young'), so he was probably close to his peak. This WB was Yonko tier, or maybe even Yonko+


Which "young" would Oda use?
Let's wait and see!
The way it's set up. Weevil could be Yonko tier, and it wouldn't feel like an asspull. Weevil could be top Yonko commander tier, and it wouldn't feel like a downgrade as well.
Oda has set himself up such that, he cannot fail here! Unless Weevil ends up being some fodder lol (which has 0.000001% chance)

I got the feeling from how the dialogue unfolded that it was a comparison of "when Whitebeard was Weevil's age" thing. Kind of a common thing in these sorts of series is comparing the kid to the parent when they were a comparable age.

Or it could just as easily be my initial reaction to it, which was when Whitebeard was a rookie.

That said, Weevil's placement in my chart is narrative-based, and the fact Oda has kept that wildcard up his sleeve for post-Wano material makes me think he's stupidly powerful. If my gut feeling is correct and the WG was making that statement as a "when the parent was that age" comparison, Weevil is 35 right now. So.... yeah.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 3, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 3, 2022 ---

Going through characters I haven't added to my table while cleaning it up some, and I'm mad I don't have more data on Bakkin and especially Shakky. Also Hody Jones was very annoying to place.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 6, 2022 ---

Alright an update on the cleaning up of this monstrosity and adding some characters I missed. I'm sure I've missed many more.

 

[john ellis]

tier list

gods tier
joyboy
imu sama (hype only could be human strength... but unlikely)
Luffy (eos, hype but assuming he beats imu)

tier 0
roger
garp(prime)

tier 0.5
sengoku(prime)
whitebeard(prime)

tier 1
luffy
kaido
whitebeard(old)
big mum
blackbeard
shanks
mihawk (???? no fucking idea probably)

tier 1.5
zoro
kid
law
ben beckman(hype)
yamato

tier 2
king
marco
kata
shiyru (might be higher but??)

tier 3
sanji
YC2
the rest of the supernova's


tier 4
YC3
9 red scabarbs (atleast most)
the warlords exluding mihawk for being stronger, and crocodile and moria for being weaker.
cp0

tier 5
crocodile
moria
cp9 (variants)

 

[M3J]

Tier one:
Kaidou
Big Mom
Garp
Sengoku
Whitebeard
Roger
Shanks
Blackbeard
Akainu

Tier two:
Luffy
Zoro
Mihawk
Law
Doflamingo
Katakuri
Crocodile

 

[LadyVados]

The Zorophobia of Luffy fans is disgusting. Luffy gets AdCoC and he suddenly becomes Yonko Level, Zoro gets AdCoC and he’s still weaker than WCI Luffy.

I bet when EOS comes and Luffy barely beats Akainu and Zoro beats Kizaru people will be like Oh ! Akainu low-diffs Kizaru. Kizaru is Katakuri level.

 

[XXGenesis]

So, I don’t think fans or making this stuff up. Certain Precents have been set, & Oda isn’t sticking to them or giving a good job about underlying context.

Kidd is smashing Big Mom with Giant Metal objects, I understand a certain amount of weight and force should overpower her Iron ballon durability…but at least show that Kidd is using Haki with his DF ability to get that extra UMPH! I don’t like that, because now it’s ambiguous and fans can always just speculate that his attacks had Haki packed behind them….Otherwise Giant Bull or not, Big Mom shouldn’t be taken so much damage from physical blunt attacks.

I enjoyed Big Mom’s performance using her DF powers. But Law & Kidd’s durability feels like plot armour. I get they are going past limits but Big Mom is Wheezing more than them..While they should be the ones who have Accumulated more damage

 

[Sachsenhesse]

@XXGenesis Agreed on the durabilitypart. But not on the metalpart, what Kidd was doing was mixing in the steelhomies from BM which probably allowed him to damage her. (As seen with Zeus previously)

 

[Fox666]

The Zorophobia of Luffy fans is disgusting. Luffy gets AdCoC and he suddenly becomes Yonko Level, Zoro gets AdCoC and he’s still weaker than WCI Luffy.

Luffy is Yonko level because he's fighting equally with Kaido.

Zoro is at commander-level because he barely defeated King.

I'm guessing some people think Katakuri is stronger than King, which would put Luffy in Whole Cake Island ahead of Zoro... regardless of who's stronger, the different would be small.

 

[LadyVados]

Zoro is at commander-level because he barely defeated King.

Are we reading the same manga. Albert literally never even drew blood from Zoro and got whacked within a few seconds of Zoro unlocking AdCoC.

Not to mention Albert isn’t a commander he’s Kaido’s first mate, partner. Like Rayleigh or Beckmann.