One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Zoro is not Yonko level yet. Unlike Luffy he does not have control of his CoC haki, barely seems aware that he even has it. He also doesn't appear like he can sustain using ACoC since the only way he is able to use it is by giving all his haki to his swords. He is definitely going to be Yonko/Admiral tier by the time he faces off against Mihawk but still needs to sharpen his haki skills before then.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Are we reading the same manga. Albert literally never even drew blood from Zoro and got whacked within a few seconds of Zoro unlocking AdCoC.

Not to mention Albert isn’t a commander he’s Kaido’s first mate, partner. Like Rayleigh or Beckmann.

You're not reading One Piece, because Zoro himself hurried to finish the fight because he can't maintain the ACOC for long. Zoro struggled. And YC1 are how people describe the first mates, King is not as strong as Rayleigh.

 

[Rein Avara]

Are we reading the same manga. Albert literally never even drew blood from Zoro and got whacked within a few seconds of Zoro unlocking AdCoC.

Not to mention Albert isn’t a commander he’s Kaido’s first mate, partner. Like Rayleigh or Beckmann.

Is this the same Zoro bleeding from King's attack?
I appreciate that you adore Zoro but let's try to be a bit more realistic in our analysis of characters.

 

[AmitDS]

Oh no, they're back.

Anyway, somewhat related, I'm glad that Oda finally decided to show Law and Kid, at least portrayal wise, closer to Luffy than we had all assumed (he put to bed the whole notion that they weren't the 2nd/3rd strongest SNs). They're comfortably above 'YC' level at present imo.

 

[McNuss]

Is this the same Zoro bleeding from King's attack?

But, also, if we are honest, it's not even close to what Mr. 1 did. It's actually pretty ridiculous that on the entire Grand Line only Mr. 1, Enel and Kaido+Big Mom have ever brought Zoro close to his limit in a fight.

What downed Zorro after their fight is the Mink Drug, not King.

King got made a clown in this fight, the symbolism clearly spells out humiliation: His ultimate attack got nullified, his sword broke, and he lost half of one of his wings.

King is very overrated. Probably the weakest of the Yonko's first mates, except maybe Shiryu, whom I have a feeling will fight very dirty and probably use his newfound invisibility to handicap his opponent beforehands. But Ben Beckmann will probably be stronger than King and honestly maybe even Lucky Roux, too.

Marco is also very overrated as he is an absolutely terrible damage dealer. But atleast his cheat is bulletproof and enables him to stall pretty much anyone, it's a very broken ability that by comparison makes King's look subpar.

Katakuri is simply #1 I already explained enough. Zoro wouldn't have hit him ever before the drug run out, and probably never at all as Katakuri even adapted to Snakeman quite fast and Zoro's entire fighting style is very, very basic. End of the day, plain dodging is much better than any kind of trick.

 

[M3J]

The Zorophobia of Luffy fans is disgusting. Luffy gets AdCoC and he suddenly becomes Yonko Level, Zoro gets AdCoC and he’s still weaker than WCI Luffy.

I bet when EOS comes and Luffy barely beats Akainu and Zoro beats Kizaru people will be like Oh ! Akainu low-diffs Kizaru. Kizaru is Katakuri level.

You want a tissue or something? You're oversimplifying this in order to whine about Zoro not being put on the same tier as Luffy. What has he really shown that would let him do that? Can he take on an emperor alone? Fight one alone as long as Luffy did before he got knocked out the last time? And I'm asking this as someone who thinks Zoro is on the same tier as Luffy even if he'd lose to Luffy.

 

[McNuss]

You want a tissue or something? You're oversimplifying this in order to whine about Zoro not being put on the same tier as Luffy. What has he really shown that would let him do that? Can he take on an emperor alone? Fight one alone as long as Luffy did before he got knocked out the last time? And I'm asking this as someone who thinks Zoro is on the same tier as Luffy even if he'd lose to Luffy.

I think that in the end the dynamic never changed since Whiskey Peak, and their main difference is the fighting style, however that comes with a lot of strong implications:

Doflamingo and Katakuri would have screwed over Zoro.

As with Doflamingo, there's just too many angles of attacks and too many ways for Mingo to keep a distance (air, clones, puppets, etc). Zoro'd been busy blocking threads, never getting all of them and end of the day would've been punctured to a pulp.

And Katakuri would dodge Zoro, who has a very stationary and basic fighting style, then disarm him with the Mochi Awakening, which has just way many more applications than a trick sword, which only works once.

Pre-Skip, Crocodile and Enel are other example's were Zoro/Luffy debates are simply avoided by the villain setup.

Kaido is one of the few enemies were Zoro's fighting style would actually been advantagous, but the fight is highlighting the small fact why Luffy, in the most serious situations is the strongest: The more you laugh, the stronger you are!

And this is not something Oda made up, it actually works, laughing bursts your confidence, its good for menthal health, if you feel down, laughing in front of a mirror is a cheap but very effective trick, etc etc.

Zoro is a little drama queen that gets whiny when he loses.

 

[M3J]

I think that in the end the dynamic never changed since Whiskey Peak, and their main difference is the fighting style, however that comes with a lot of strong implications:

Doflamingo and Katakuri would have screwed over Zoro.

As with Doflamingo, there's just too many angles of attacks and too many ways for Mingo to keep a distance (air, clones, puppets, etc). Zoro'd been busy blocking threads, never getting all of them and end of the day would've been punctured to a pulp.

And Katakuri would dodge Zoro, who has a very stationary and basic fighting style, then disarm him with the Mochi Awakening, which has just way many more applications than a trick sword, which only works once.

Pre-Skip, Crocodile and Enel are other example's were Zoro/Luffy debates are simply avoided by the villain setup.

Kaido is one of the few enemies were Zoro's fighting style would actually been advantagous, but the fight is highlighting the small fact why Luffy, in the most serious situations is the strongest: The more you laugh, the stronger you are!

And this is not something Oda made up, it actually works, laughing bursts your confidence, its good for menthal health, if you feel down, laughing in front of a mirror is a cheap but very effective trick, etc etc.

Zoro is a little drama queen that gets whiny when he loses.

I think it's more that if you laugh, the more willpower you have, and the more likely you are to refuse to give up and keep surpassing your limits.

When did Zoro last lose though?

 

[Core D. Roy]

I think that in the end the dynamic never changed since Whiskey Peak, and their main difference is the fighting style, however that comes with a lot of strong implications:

Doflamingo and Katakuri would have screwed over Zoro.

As with Doflamingo, there's just too many angles of attacks and too many ways for Mingo to keep a distance (air, clones, puppets, etc). Zoro'd been busy blocking threads, never getting all of them and end of the day would've been punctured to a pulp.

And Katakuri would dodge Zoro, who has a very stationary and basic fighting style, then disarm him with the Mochi Awakening, which has just way many more applications than a trick sword, which only works once.

Pre-Skip, Crocodile and Enel are other example's were Zoro/Luffy debates are simply avoided by the villain setup.

Kaido is one of the few enemies were Zoro's fighting style would actually been advantagous, but the fight is highlighting the small fact why Luffy, in the most serious situations is the strongest: The more you laugh, the stronger you are!

And this is not something Oda made up, it actually works, laughing bursts your confidence, its good for menthal health, if you feel down, laughing in front of a mirror is a cheap but very effective trick, etc etc.

Zoro is a little drama queen that gets whiny when he loses.

King *should've* been able to screw over Zoro with keeping his distance and pelting him from afar and not underestimating Zoro's ability to deduce King's attack/defense modes.

That whole fight made King look as bad as the WCI fight with Luffy made Katakuri look excellent.

 

[McNuss]

I think it's more that if you laugh, the more willpower you have, and the more likely you are to refuse to give up and keep surpassing your limits.

When did Zoro last lose though?

Yeah, sure, that's why the "etc", I just wanted to give examples that are testable in real life. In fact, all of the superpowers described in One Piece "work" in real life....

King *should've* been able to screw over Zoro with keeping his distance and pelting him from afar and not underestimating Zoro's ability to deduce King's attack/defense modes.

That whole fight made King look as bad as the WCI fight with Luffy made Katakuri look excellent.

King can only attack from the front, I don't see any scenario where he can win if keeping a disctance.

We have to assess properly what these guys are. I feel the "YC" or whatever they are get often shaped into an "the best are the best" perspective, like with Marco, whom a large part of the community still believes to be stronger than Luffy or even see him as another Yonko or something, even though none of his attacks have ever led to any lasting impact on the battlefield.

Katakuri isn't made to look excellent, he is excellent:

Devil Fruit: Awakened
Haki:

CoA: Pretty strong
CoO: Mastered beyond equal
CoC: Confirmed User

If Oda wanted to give any of these traits to any of the other guys, he would have, but he didn't. Aside from the Awakening, none of these would have taken much panel time to introduce.

 

[Aaaa]

Zoro is not Yonko level yet. Unlike Luffy he does not have control of his CoC haki, barely seems aware that he even has it. He also doesn't appear like he can sustain using ACoC since the only way he is able to use it is by giving all his haki to his swords. He is definitely going to be Yonko/Admiral tier by the time he faces off against Mihawk but still needs to sharpen his haki skills before then.

Eh luffy ran out of haki in like a chapter as well when he first used aCOC against Kaido. Zoro is basically one step behind luffy atm, he’ll have better control over it once he recovers

 

[LadyVados]

Oh no, they're back.

Anyway, somewhat related, I'm glad that Oda finally decided to show Law and Kid, at least portrayal wise, closer to Luffy than we had all assumed (he put to bed the whole notion that they weren't the 2nd/3rd strongest SNs). They're comfortably above 'YC' level at present imo.

You’re cyber bullying succeeded in making me depressed and not going on one piece forums for a bit but then I’m realised I shouldn’t put myself down because people like you bully me and should have more self-respect than that.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 7, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 7, 2022 ---

King is not a YC1 he’s a first mate. There is a massive power difference between a first mate/partner who has been with the captain their entire career like Rayleigh or King and a mere commander.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 7, 2022 ---

King *should've* been able to screw over Zoro with keeping his distance and pelting him from afar and not underestimating Zoro's ability to deduce King's attack/defense modes.

That whole fight made King look as bad as the WCI fight with Luffy made Katakuri look excellent.

Katakuri lost to a guy who was fodder to current Zoro. Nekomamushi would beat him based on feats. People overrate him because he’s a cool character. Just like all those people who think Doflamingo is Admiral-tier. Kata is way weaker than most Wano characters.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 7, 2022 ---

You want a tissue or something? You're oversimplifying this in order to whine about Zoro not being put on the same tier as Luffy. What has he really shown that would let him do that? Can he take on an emperor alone? Fight one alone as long as Luffy did before he got knocked out the last time? And I'm asking this as someone who thinks Zoro is on the same tier as Luffy even if he'd lose to Luffy.

If Yamato and Marco could fight one on one with a Yonko, Zoro who is way stronger than either definitely can. Zoro was comparable to Luffy before either got AdCoC and it should be an equally big power multiplier for both. It’s simple math.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Are we reading the same manga. Albert literally never even drew blood from Zoro and got whacked within a few seconds of Zoro unlocking AdCoC.

Not to mention Albert isn’t a commander he’s Kaido’s first mate, partner. Like Rayleigh or Beckmann.

 

[LadyVados]

The truth is Zoro’s feats will never be enough for Luffy fans. Zoro could cut the planet in half tomorrow and Luffy fans will be like Oh Doffy can do that. Heck that has already happened people scale Doffy and Kata to Zoro’s Pica cutting feat when neither has an AP feat anywhere even remotely close to that. Heck Smoothie couldn’t break through a door but somehow she could cut a mountain in half. Zoro could one shot Blackbeard tomorrow and Luffy fans will say oh Blackbeard was only commander Level. Imagine saying Kata could block a combo attack from 2 Yonkos before 2020 but now I hear people saying every YC1 could replicate Zoro’s feats and Sanji can too for some reason.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 7, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 7, 2022 ---

After Zoro got AdCoC. I consider them 2 fights. Albert won round 1 and Zoro won Round 2.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Katakuri lost to a guy who was fodder to current Zoro. Nekomamushi would beat him based on feats. People overrate him because he’s a cool character. Just like all those people who think Doflamingo is Admiral-tier. Kata is way weaker than most Wano characters.

You sometimes make good and valid points and then you post something like this. I also think Kata is overrated but way weaker then most Wano characters is just plain wrong. He is right there where he belongs, on a tier with King.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Luffy is Yonko level because he's fighting equally with Kaido.

Zoro is at commander-level because he barely defeated King.

I'm guessing some people think Katakuri is stronger than King, which would put Luffy in Whole Cake Island ahead of Zoro... regardless of who's stronger, the different would be small.

Also Katakuri literally called Luffy his equal and people were still saying Luffy wasn't Katakuri's equal lol

 

[LadyVados]

You sometimes make good and valid points and then you post something like this. I also think Kata is overrated but way weaker then most Wano characters is just plain wrong. He is right there where he belongs, on a tier with King.

He loses to Luffy, Zoro, Law, Kidd, Nekomamushi, Inuarashi, Albert, Sanji, Marco, Denjiro, Kaido, Big Mom, Yamato and maybe even Killer and the CPO Boss dude.

Most was just an expression. I didn’t mean he’d literally lose to most characters. I just meant he’s no longer one of the big dogs power wise.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 7, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 7, 2022 ---

Also Katakuri literally called Luffy his equal and people were still saying Luffy wasn't Katakuri's equal lol

Weren’t you one of the people who said that ?

 

[Sachsenhesse]

He loses to Luffy, Zoro, Law, Kidd, Albert, Marco, Kaido, Big Mom, Yamato.

With those i can agree. Anything else is a stretch. And even here i dont see Yamato or Kidd having an easy time.

 

[LadyVados]

With those i can agree. Anything else is a stretch. And even here i dont see Yamato or Kidd having an easy time.

Exactly, he’s barely in the top 10 strongest. Compared to WCI in which he was the 2nd strongest.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Exactly, he’s barely in the top 10 strongest. Compared to WCI in which he was the 2nd strongest.

"Barely"

Looses too: Kaidou, BM, Luffy (Yonkou)
Probably looses too: (Zoro, Law)
Equal footing: Kidd, King, Marco
Darkhorse: Yamato.