One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[LadyVados]

"Barely"

Looses too: Kaidou, BM, Luffy (Yonkou)
Probably looses too: (Zoro, Law)
Equal footing: Kidd, King, Marco
Darkhorse: Yamato.

I don’t rate Kata as high as you do. Based on feats he loses to these 9 easily. And a few others too.

He couldn’t put down Base Luffy after 11 hours. The same Luffy who needed gears for random fishmen. His attacks were blocked by Bege’s goons. He lost to a Luffy without Ryou or AdCoC. He’s a gimmick fighter. Bypass his gimmick and it’s easy.

 

[Core D. Roy]

Katakuri lost to a guy who was fodder to current Zoro. Nekomamushi would beat him based on feats. People overrate him because he’s a cool character. Just like all those people who think Doflamingo is Admiral-tier. Kata is way weaker than most Wano characters.

Luffy at WCI is fodder to current Zoro and Nekomamushi can defeat Katakuri?

And it's *other people* with silly opinions like Doffy is admiral-tier?

...what? This is tangled-X-mas-lights logic if I've ever seen it.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 7, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 7, 2022 ---

You’re cyber bullying succeeded in making me depressed and not going on one piece forums for a bit but then I’m realised I shouldn’t put myself down because people like you bully me and should have more self-respect than that.

That's quite an accusation, what happened?

 

[McNuss]

Lol why did I even try to discuss anything serious here.

I'm really sick of these showings of fan favoritism, but pretty much everyone here is just finding excuses to place their favorites as high as possible.

 

[Pirate Queen]

That's quite an accusation, what happened?

See what happens is she says something like East Blue Zoro can bet Marineford Whitebeard, then everyone tells them to be realistic and that it's not possible... then they complain they are getting bullied.

Usually how it goes

 

[LadyVados]

Luffy at WCI is fodder to current Zoro and Nekomamushi can defeat Katakuri?

And it's *other people* with silly opinions like Doffy is admiral-tier?

...what? This is tangled-X-mas-lights logic if I've ever seen it.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 7, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 7, 2022 ---

That's quite an accusation, what happened?

Zoro is stronger than Yamato who gave Hybrid Kaido a good fight. Base drunk Kaido beat WCI Luffy in 1 second flat.

Zoro >= Yamato < Hybrid Kaido > Base Kaido > Drunk Base Kaido >>> WCI Luffy.

Zoro should be stronger than the drunk base Kaido who fodderized WCI Luffy.

He said it was good that I was banned from Mangahelpers and should get banned from everywhere else too and my opinions were stupid and good riddance.

 

[McNuss]

Zoro is stronger than Yamato who gave Hybrid Kaido a good fight. Base drunk Kaido beat WCI Luffy in 1 second flat.

Zoro >= Yamato < Hybrid Kaido > Base Kaido > Drunk Base Kaido >>> WCI Luffy.

Zoro should be stronger than the drunk base Kaido who fodderized WCI Luffy.

He said it was good that I was banned from Mangahelpers and should get banned from everywhere else too and my opinions were stupid and good riddance.

But we've now been told, the drunk Kaido is stronger than the base Kaido, and also Law pretty much suggested it's a lie these guys don't feel anything.

 

[LadyVados]

But we've now been told, the drunk Kaido is stronger than the base Kaido, and also Law pretty much suggested it's a lie these guys don't feel anything.

I forgot about the recent chapter. Even then I don’t think he’s stronger only equal. I still think Current Zoro could beat WCI Luffy as easily as Kaido did. One 103 mercies should get the job done. Being drunk doesn’t make Kaido physically stronger or raise his attack power. And Yamato was matching his hybrid-form Thunder Bagua.

 

[McNuss]

I forgot about the recent chapter. Even then I don’t think he’s stronger only equal. I still think Current Zoro could beat WCI Luffy as easily as Kaido did. One 103 mercies should get the job done.

Unless Luffy uses Soru and punches Zoro first.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 7, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 7, 2022 ---

The point is, what you propose is an amount of powerlevel inflation that is not found in the manga, especially now that Oda is debunking his own hypes.

 

[LadyVados]

Unless Luffy uses Soru and punches Zoro first.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 7, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 7, 2022 ---

The point is, what you propose is an amount of powerlevel inflation that is not found in the manga, especially now that Oda is debunking his own hypes.

Frieza Saga Krillin would fodderize Saiyan Saga Goku. Power inflation is part and parcel of any manga.

Luffy didn’t use Soru and hit Kaido first. Zoro is comparable to Kaido in speed and even if he gets hit by Luffy’s attacks he has the durability to tank them since he could tank Big Mom’s named attacks. Kaido’s speed was overwhelming Luffy’s FS, an Iaido technique from Zoro would do the same.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Eh luffy ran out of haki in like a chapter as well when he first used aCOC against Kaido. Zoro is basically one step behind luffy atm, he’ll have better control over it once he recovers

The only times we've seen Luffy run out of haki is when using G4. When he lost to Kaido that second round they didn't state he ran out of haki. The problem was he was still not good enough at the use of ACoC.

In Zoro's case forget ACoC, he can't even use basic CoC with any control. He's where Luffy was at pre time skip where it just bursts out of him. He hasn't shown the ability to choose to knock out fodder using CoC nor target individuals with CoC the way actual users like Luffy/Rayleigh can. At least now Zoro is becoming aware he possesses the CoC so I'm guessing by next arc he will be able to use it more freely.

 

[LadyVados]

Eh luffy ran out of haki in like a chapter as well when he first used aCOC against Kaido. Zoro is basically one step behind luffy atm, he’ll have better control over it once he recovers

Exactly ! Luffy unlocked AdCoC an hour ago. People here acting like he’s had it for years ! Luffy split the sky with a few minutes more experience with AdCoC than Zoro has.

 

[McNuss]

Doffy and Kata to Zoro’s Pica cutting feat when neither has an AP feat anywhere even remotely close to that.

They just turn the mountain into Mochi/Strings. Also battle isn't just about attack power. Mingo also shredded a meteor like nothing.

As as sworsdsman, Zoro brings great offensive power to the table, but the drawback is a fighting style that is basically vanilla fighting. Mihawk is both equal to Shanks and unable to defeat Marineford Crocodile.

Frieze Saga Krillin > Saiyan Saga Goku. Power inflation is part and parcel of any manga.

Dragon Ball has an entirely different style. After each arc, a new set of villains is introduced and the race to the top is started anew. Anything from the previous arc barely matters anymore at all. PL scaling is also super transparent in Dragon Ball.

One Piece is different. A large chunk of the Top Tiers get introduced in the first 300 chapters, and it gets completly defined around halfway through the Manga (Marineford). What we are seeing since the timeskip is pretty much an in-detail shot of what was presented to us at MF.

 

[LadyVados]

They just turn the mountain into Mochi/Strings. Also battle isn't just about attack power. Mingo also shredded a meteor like nothing.

As as sworsdsman, Zoro brings great offensive power to the table, but the drawback is a fighting style that is basically vanilla fighting. Mihawk is both equal to Shanks and unable to defeat Marineford Crocodile.


Dragon Ball has an entirely different style. After each arc, a new set of villains is introduced and the race to the top is started anew. Anything from the previous arc barely matters anymore at all. PL scaling is also super transparent in Dragon Ball.

One Piece is different. A large chunk of the Top Tiers get introduced in the first 300 chapters, and it gets completly defined around halfway through the Manga (Marineford). What we are seeing since the timeskip is pretty much an in-detail shot of what was presented to us at MF.

Luffy fans try to argue that Doffy and Kata’s attack power was higher than Dressrosa Zoro’s though.

I disagree. In East Blue we were introduced to Arlong and his crew. Then in Alabasta we had a whole new set of villains- Baroque Works and Crocodile who were all much stronger than Arlong and co. Then we were introduced to Enel and his buddies who were clearly on a different level to Baroque works. Then we meet CP9 who are on a completely different level than the previous villains. Then we meet the Thriller Bark characters who are on a completely different level from them.

Most people consider Cracker stronger than Doffy. Most people consider Diamanté stronger than Hody. Most people consider the fat fish stronger than Moriah. Most people consider Absalom stronger than Lucci. Most people consider Blueno stronger than Enel. Most people consider the priest with the balls stronger than Crocodile. Most people consider Mr. 2 stronger than Arlong.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

They just turn the mountain into Mochi/Strings. Also battle isn't just about attack power. Mingo also shredded a meteor like nothing.

As as sworsdsman, Zoro brings great offensive power to the table, but the drawback is a fighting style that is basically vanilla fighting. Mihawk is both equal to Shanks and unable to defeat Marineford Crocodile.

Yeah I think Luffy and Zoro actually have very similar drawbacks in their fighting styles. Both have their greatest impact in close combat vs long distance. Luffy definitely has the versatility in abilities compared to Zoro and I think Zoro edges him in damage inflicted (in my opinion OP seems to favor cutting attacks doing more damage than blunt force).

Dragon Ball has an entirely different style. After each arc, a new set of villains is introduced and the race to the top is started anew. Anything from the previous arc barely matters anymore at all. PL scaling is also super transparent in Dragon Ball.

One Piece is different. A large chunk of the Top Tiers get introduced in the first 300 chapters, and it gets completly defined around halfway through the Manga (Marineford). What we are seeing since the timeskip is pretty much an in-detail shot of what was presented to us at MF.

THIS. OP power scaling is not like DB at all. OP defined the top at the beginning. We've known about who the top dogs of OP since East Blue saga (without names of course). Heck Roger was introduced in Chap 0, we learned the top of the Navy are Admirals with Coby's declaration of his goal, we met Shanks and Mihawk back then too. Since that point we have just learned more about these top peeps and slowly worked the main characters towards that marker.

DB creates a new celing all the time. We started with Red Ribbon army and have gotten to multiverse destroying beings lol.

 

[LadyVados]

THIS. OP power scaling is not like DB at all. OP defined the top at the beginning. We've known about who the top dogs of OP since East Blue saga (without names of course). Heck Roger was introduced in Chap 0, we learned the top of the Navy are Admirals with Coby's declaration of his goal, we met Shanks and Mihawk back then too. Since that point we have just learned more about these top peeps and slowly worked the main characters towards that marker.

DB creates a new celing all the time. We started with Red Ribbon army and have gotten to multiverse destroying beings lol.

Technically speaking those multiversal beings always existed in DB. The main characters never encountered them. The characters our heroes encounter in OP jump as much in power as villains in DB. CP9 is leagues above Enel.

Yea there are top tiers who have always been in the background but that’s different.

 

[Core D. Roy]

Zoro is stronger than Yamato who gave Hybrid Kaido a good fight. Base drunk Kaido beat WCI Luffy in 1 second flat.

Zoro >= Yamato < Hybrid Kaido > Base Kaido > Drunk Base Kaido >>> WCI Luffy.

Zoro should be stronger than the drunk base Kaido who fodderized WCI Luffy.

Yamato is probably stronger and slightly above Zoro in general.

I don't think we should be putting too much stock into "base form" this or "hybrid" that or even "gear" whatever at this point. Oda frequently flipflops on the real effectiveness of these, sometimes from chapter to chapter.

Kaidou fodderized WCI Luffy in part because Luffy was too enraged to use future sight. That, and the power of Kaidou's various bagua techniques is all over the place. They go from one-shotting Luffy to Luffy, Kidd and even Law tanking them at Roofpiece.

He loses to Luffy, Zoro, Law, Kidd, Nekomamushi, Inuarashi, Albert, Sanji, Marco, Denjiro, Kaido, Big Mom, Yamato and maybe even Killer and the CPO Boss dude.

Luffy- definitely wins.
Zoro- maybe, probably not. swords < mochi.
Law- depends on how OP his powers work that week.
Kidd- maybe, probably not. scrap < mochi.
Inu/Neko- lmfao what? not even as su long.
Albert- maybe, depends on how mochi interacts with fire.
Sanji- maybe, probably not. depends on how mochi interacts with fire.
Marco- probably wins, but depends on how mochi interacts with phoenix fire.
Denjiro- even less likely than Zoro winning. swords < mochi
Kaidou/Big Mom- duh.
Yamato- probably wins, depends on how mochi interacts with ice.
Killer- for real?
CP0 guy- literally all we know is that he took out a heavily damaged Drake.

He said it was good that I was banned from Mangahelpers and should get banned from everywhere else too and my opinions were stupid and good riddance.

That's uh... that's absolutely not bullying. It's a little rude, at worst.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Jeah so correct it isnt. Especially beginning it was like "devilfruit omg", "its a fishman omg", then "grandline returner omg" "marine capt. omg" "shishibukai omg" for some chaps. "admiral omg" then timeskip came and we have seen WB in action who was declared as the strongest

But even so... we got powercreep ala YC3, YC2, YC1, Yonkou and now maybe even Imu.

One piece is a way longer story then DB, so of course one Oda had laid out his ranking its easy to fill the places. Just look at how many foes Goku and Vegeta fought until they reached Beerus level. In short: OP is still a shounen.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Luffy fans try to argue that Doffy and Kata’s attack power was higher than Dressrosa Zoro’s though.

I'm a Zoro fan and even I think they had better attack power. Last I checked Zoro didn't cut Bird Cage nor could he by himself stop it from moving.

I disagree. In East Blue we were introduced to Arlong and his crew.

By the time Arlong was introduced we already had seen Mihawk who would clearly wipe the floor with him and is our first standard bearer of what the top of the world is like as WSS (and he even hinted he wasn't the strongest in the world by saying being PK is a harder goal than defeating him). We also were explicitly given a theoretically peak in Arlongs power when he was compared to Jinbei a Warlord (and it turned out it was all hype at the end of it).

Then in Alabasta we had a whole new set of villains- Baroque Works and Crocodile who were all much stronger than Arlong and co.

In that same arc we were introduced to additional powerhouses above Crocodile. We learned about White Beard the strongest man in the world. We got to meet Ace and see a demonstration of his power while knowing he was an underling to WB. We got hints of Blackbeards power since he sacked a kingdom. We even got introduced to Dragon (without a name) and got hints he can control weather. Crocodile was the strongest direct opponent Luffy fought but he was clearly not defining what the highest tier of strength in OP world was at the time.

Then we were introduced to Enel and his buddies who were clearly on a different level to Baroque works.

Luffy explicitly told Enel that there were far stronger guys on the Blue sea than him. Again Enel didn't define the top tier strength and as readers we knew it.

Then we meet CP9 who are on a completely different level than the previous villains.

We met Aokiji at this point and saw how strong he can be. This was another glimpse of the top tier strength is like. CP9s greatest threat of Buster Call itself was only possible because of Aokiji.

Then we meet the Thriller Bark characters who are on a completely different level from them.

We learned about Kaido here and how Moria lost his entire crew.

Throughout the story OP has been telling us what the top is like. Every villain the protagonist fights is just another mile marker to that goal. This is unlike DB where the current villain is the strongest introduced in the story at the time. It's not like we knew about the likes of Buu and his level of strength during Saiyan saga.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 7, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 7, 2022 ---

Technically speaking those multiversal beings always existed in DB. The main characters never encountered them. The characters our heroes encounter in OP jump as much in power as villains in DB. CP9 is leagues above Enel.

Yea there are top tiers who have always been in the background but that’s different.

OP defined a scale early on and constantly hinted what the end of the scale was like. DB never defined a scale, it just kept creating new ones with each arc. That is a very clear distinction between the two stories.

We as the readers didn't know about multiversal beings until the super, which is way later. We as readers knew Roger was the top dog in Chp 0.

 

[LadyVados]

I'm a Zoro fan and even I think they had better attack power. Last I checked Zoro didn't cut Bird Cage nor could he by himself stop it from moving.


By the time Arlong was introduced we already had seen Mihawk who would clearly wipe the floor with him and is our first standard bearer of what the top of the world is like as WSS (and he even hinted he wasn't the strongest in the world by saying being PK is a harder goal than defeating him). We also were explicitly given a theoretically peak in Arlongs power when he was compared to Jinbei a Warlord (and it turned out it was all hype at the end of it).


In that same arc we were introduced to additional powerhouses above Crocodile. We learned about White Beard the strongest man in the world. We got to meet Ace and see a demonstration of his power while knowing he was an underling to WB. We got hints of Blackbeards power since he sacked a kingdom. We even got introduced to Dragon (without a name) and got hints he can control weather. Crocodile was the strongest direct opponent Luffy fought but he was clearly not defining what the highest tier of strength in OP world was at the time.


Luffy explicitly told Enel that there were far stronger guys on the Blue sea than him. Again Enel didn't define the top tier strength and as readers we knew it.


We met Aokiji at this point and saw how strong he can be. This was another glimpse of the top tier strength is like. CP9s greatest threat of Buster Call itself was only possible because of Aokiji.


We learned about Kaido here and how Moria lost his entire crew.

Throughout the story OP has been telling us what the top is like. Every villain the protagonist fights is just another mile marker to that goal. This is unlike DB where the current villain is the strongest introduced in the story at the time. It's not like we knew about the likes of Buu and his level of strength during Saiyan saga.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 7, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 7, 2022 ---

OP defined a scale early on and constantly hinted what the end of the scale was like. DB never defined a scale, it just kept creating new ones with each arc. That is a very clear distinction between the two stories.

We as the readers didn't know about multiversal beings until the super, which is way later. We as readers knew Roger was the top dog in Chp 0.

Even Fuji couldn’t stop Birdcage, it definitely does not scale to Doffy’s regular attacks.

Or maybe rooftop Luffy, Kidd and Law >>> WCI Luffy ?

It doesn’t matter that we knew the top tiers existed. The main cast almost never interacted with them. The villains they were facing in power were jumping up as much in DB or in any other Shonen. People like Mihawk and WB were just something in the background that had no relation to the straw hat’s power levels.

 

[AmitDS]

You’re cyber bullying succeeded in making me depressed and not going on one piece forums for a bit but then I’m realised I shouldn’t put myself down because people like you bully me and should have more self-respect than that.

King is not a YC1 he’s a first mate. There is a massive power difference between a first mate/partner who has been with the captain their entire career like Rayleigh or King and a mere commander.

Heh, I don't think I've done anything worse than you've done to me across multiple forums lel but ok.
Anyway, glad to have you back

So by that same token, Katakuri is that 'FM level' too right, considering he's been with BM since he was conceived? lol